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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Abraham Was A Pagan (5490 Views)
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Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 10:17am On Apr 13, 2016 |
Im back to the Religion Section
this is my old post from another thread which i thought to make a topic out of @ truthman2012, lexiconkabir, freethinker01, Ryabcool, GooseBaba ,Plaetton, johnydon22 6 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by johnydon22(m): 10:38am On Apr 13, 2016 |
Welcome back brother!!!! |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by Annunaki(m): 11:24am On Apr 13, 2016 |
Your analogy is faulty as Abraham never visited mecca talkless of building the kabba. Infact the city of mecca did not exist until about three hundred years before mohammed whilst abraham lived at least 3,000 years before him. The whole Abraham thing in the islamic religion was conjured up by mohammed to give credence to his newly invented religion. 6 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by johnydon22(m): 12:30pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Annunaki: Both Islam and Christianity has their roots from Jewish Religion of which Abraham is the fore-bear of their origin from a sumerian descent. so Abrahamic is as much relevant in both neither Christianity nor Islam has any better claim on the Character Abraham (who remarkably i find to a lunatic individual and not someone worth emulating) 6 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 2:22pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Annunaki: this is so wrong, Mecca might not have been a city during the time of Abraham doesnt mean the land was never inhabited or at least visited. the wilderness (surrounding Mecca) of Faran was mentioned in Genesis 21:21 as the area Ishmael settled and arab records have it that the sons of the first son of Ishmael, Nabaioth built Mecca but was later controlled by the Quraysh, descended from Qedar(ishmael's 2nd son).... this is not islamic or mohammed's teachings but pre-islamic records of history most True Arabs(not the wannabees) are descended from Ishmael, especially through his Two eldest sons Nabaioth and Qedar. 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 2:31pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Annunaki . at least you did not dispute the fact that the cities Abraham lived were major cities of Moon God worship, and at a time when one's profession spoke of the deity he venerated...as a Herdsman Abraham must have been faithful to the MoonGod |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by Annunaki(m): 3:59pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
macof: Yes the bible made it clear that abraham's people were pagan before God called him out. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 4:12pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Annunaki: and so was Abraham till the end of his days 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by lawani: 7:07pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
macof: Abraham lived in Sumeria and Nimrod was his King. Nimrod would have been older than his father. Any Abraham story in the Quran, not corroborated by Jews are pure lies, figments of the imagination of Prophet Mohammed because Abraham is the property of Jews just like Lisabi is the property of the Egba. Atiba belongs to Oyo, Atakunmosa to Ijesa and etc. Those who knew Abraham learnt of him from Jews and not from anywhere else. His story got to Arabs through Judaism, Christianity and Islam and that was from whom Mohammed first heard the name., So any Abraham story not corroborated by Jews are pure lies. Then Mecca would have not been there during Abraham's time. There may have been human settlements but not Mecca. Same way Ilesa or Abeokuta of that name was not there 3 thousand years ago. Since Abraham was a Sumerian, it does not need telling before knowing that he was an original Earth man and his people today are Aborisha, Shinto, Hindu and etc. Not Christians and Muslims who are barbarians. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by IndianBwoy(m): 7:30pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
Annunaki: I agree to this. 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by IndianBwoy(m): 7:31pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
The true Arabs are from Qahtan. Not from any judaic connection of ishmael which was forged post-islam. Every Arab knows that. Abraham never built the Kaaba. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 8:15pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
lawani: and what about Abraham from the Arabs doesn't correlate with the records of the Jews? most Arabs are descendants of Abraham just like the Jews and have every right to their ancestor. ...except for the Qahtan Arabs(the only surviving aborigines) all the Arabs of Al-Hijaz are descendants of Abraham through Ishmael you can say Abraham didn't build (or maybe even didnt lay the foundation of the kaaba) but to say his descendants never resided in Mecca cannot be taken seriously |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 8:20pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
IndianBwoy: of course. ..but this doesn't dispute the op on the grounds that Abraham was Pagan - his "Arabized" descendants are proof 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by lawani: 8:55pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
macof: |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by lawani: 9:02pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
macof: The name Ishmael was found only in the Torah as at 100 AD. Nobody bore the name. Mohammed was born in the 7th century AD, prior to that Meccans never heard the name Ishmael, except if some Arab Christians heard of it. The whole concept of Arabs descending from Ishmael is a sick notion fundamentally flawed and has no basis. People living in South Arabia used to bear names like Nebuchadnezzar, Haman and etc. Not a single one of them had a Torah or Bible name. Abraham left South Arabia around 3000 BC according to Jews, visited Egypt and many other places, died and was buried in Canaan. He did not leave children behind in South Arabia, neither did his children return there at any time. South Arabians dont know him. He is known only to Jews. The father of South Arabians is actually Nimrod who was ancestor to people like Nebuchadnezzar and who is known to Yorubas as Lamurudu. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 10:34pm On Apr 13, 2016 |
lawani: I guess the biblical references to the Qederites and Mecca are also 100AD .... in fact ishmael did not exist neither did Esau who the Torah claims to have married a daughter of Ishmael What has Yorubas got to do with this correction: Abraham was 2000Bc not 3000Bc 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by lawani: 4:34am On Apr 14, 2016 |
macof: Pls quote the Bibllcal reference to Mecca, we are all learning. It is generally acknowledged that Nimrod lived 5000 years ago and Abraham lived around the time too. Jewish accounts say his father was working for Nimrod. Nimrod is the person referred to as father of Oduduwa in Yoruba stories but he was his ancestor and not his father because Oduduwa lived not more than 1500 years ago. Anything can be written by Jews but they are not in a position to tell the stories of other people. They just can not go and say these are the children of Esau while others are the children of Ishmael. Abraham was just one man of millions and during his days there were many nations, he himself encountered many Kings in Bible stories. So there is no way he can be the father of so many people. Haggai was an Egyptian or Ethiopian, so when sent away she would have returned with her child to her people and not to Sumeria. There are many prominent people in pre Judaic South Arabian history and it is blasphemous to say those people are descendants of Abraham. They are not. 2 Likes |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by blueAgent(m): 9:24am On Apr 14, 2016 |
johnydon22: Typical mental case. it is not by force for one to act smart. it is obvious U are not smart so quit being a ass 2 Likes |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by johnydon22(m): 9:27am On Apr 14, 2016 |
blueAgent: K i have noticed you.. Happy? |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by blueAgent(m): 9:28am On Apr 14, 2016 |
macof: Clown. Abraham's family were idol worshippers but Abraham himself feared God. and that is why God called him out from his country . 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 12:52pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
lawani:start with Genesis 21 : 21 Paran is the Hebrew name for the wilderness around Mecca. ... & 25 : 12 - 18 notice how Verse 18 gives a geographic description that fits Arabia. numbers 10:12 tells that the Hebrews on exodus from Egypt, left Sinai to Paran (which is the area surrounding Mecca) 1 Kings 11:17-18 states that when Hadad the Edomite fled from Edom to Egypt, he passed through Midian and Paran on the way to Egypt. This means that Paran was a place on the way to Egypt right after Midian from Edom.... this fits the northern tip of Al-Hijaz Psalms 84:5 & 6.. Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee...who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well... Baca is Makkah/Mecca general knowledge that Nimrod lived 5000 years ago it's not even general knowledge that Nimrod ever existed. Jewish accounts say Abraham was thrown into fire by a Sumerian King. ...no name of the Sumerian king given. .. everyone just seems to call up the name "Nimrod" "Namrud" or "Nimrod" was the arabic/Hebrew name of the Sumerian God of hunt - Ninurta not an actual person from Sumer Pls take this to culture section. it has no place here When someone is credited as father or founder of a people. ..doesn't mean all the people are actual descendants by blood. Ishmael and his mother didn't return to Egypt or move to Sumer, they left Abraham and met the Jurhum arabs.....many other ancient Arabs exist ie. Thamud, Ad, Kenites, Amalekites, Jadis, Qahtan |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 1:21pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
blueAgent: there's nothing like idol worshipping. no human being worships idol. .. what is done is Veneration of the Divine; idols are elements of veneration not objects that are worshipped Abraham feared his God. ..doesn't mean he wasn't a pagan. Pagans fear their God much more than you religionists God called him out of his country? as a herdsman why do you think he needed to be called out of his country? obviously for greener pasture for the herd and flock nowhere did Genesis say he turned his back on the God of his father's house the evidence is overwhelming. .. Abraham was a Pagan like his people back home 2 Likes |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by johnydon22(m): 2:18pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
macof: Ignore the attention seeker who cannot make a simple sentence without managing to jam and insult and gibberish in one sentence. not worth your time... 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 5:06pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
johnydon22: I see. .. I missed religion section and all its crazy folks |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by Nobody: 5:07pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
macof: All these has no relevance to a xtain. merging the Bible with Koran is the mistake here. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by plaetton: 5:21pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
blueAgent: Absolute nonsense. God and Idol are two sides of the same coin. They are interchangeable. One tribe's God is another tribe's Idol. Simple. The Sumerians, Abraham's people, did not WORSHIP their gods. They venerated and SERVED them. Even Yahweh confessed that Abraham's father SERVED other gods. Yahweh was jealous ( self confessed) of other gods for the simple reason that they were his peers, not idols. 6 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by macof(m): 9:01pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
JMAN05: you are wrong. . Abraham is a key figure for Christian religion. Christians should strive to know more about him.... this is what I'm trying to help you with. sources aren't only from bible and Koran but also anthropologic studies of Mesopotamia and the lands Abraham ventured into you should not reject knowledge just because what is being said isn't in the bible. ...Abraham goes beyond the bible 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by stonemasonn: 10:47pm On Apr 14, 2016 |
Abraham worshiped El Shaddai (god of the mountain). 1 Like |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by orunto27: 10:34am On Apr 15, 2016 |
Abram's father was a Pagan. Abram became Abraham, I.e. Faith, when Hebrew non idol God found him faithful. And so God, The Supreme Spirit, is The Faith to Israelis. Christ is The Faith to Israelis and Gentiles and Allah is The Faith to the Arabs and Ishmaelites. Christ in God is The Faith, The Word and The Righteous to all Creations.. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by lawani: 11:08am On Apr 15, 2016 |
That Abraham has a personal God, The God of Abraham' later named Yahweh by his descendants who adopted the Canaanite practice of answering He is 'I am the I am' when strangers ask them the name of the God speaks volume. Today, in Edunabon, Osun state, if you want a personal God, you go to the Alagbaa, the Chief priest of Abobiakuro, the community deity of Edunabon and that Alagbaa will assist you to install that personal God which you will name and you start worshipping it with the things you agreed upon. An Edunabon man I met has a deity he acquired in that manner. So what was Abraham? I will answer the Yahweh way. 'He was what that Edunabon man is'. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by Nobody: 12:42pm On Apr 15, 2016 |
macof: As Christians we don't think that all the story ends with the bible. However, since we accept the bible as an inspired book and we don't believe Koran is, we thus view it with suspicion. Any book that contradict what the bible has to say is wrong. If not for you, it is to any genuine Christian. As such, combining the bible with Koran and other sources you have there, and concluding that Abraham venerated idol is unacceptable to a genuine Christian. That makes the info above irrelevant to us. |
Re: Abraham Was A Pagan by lawani: 2:20pm On Apr 15, 2016 |
JMAN05: Google contradictions in the Bible. |
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