QUESTION (344)
Can we observe our prayers behind an Imaam who does Bid'ah (Innovation)?.

ANSWER TO THE QUESTION

Praise be to Allaah.

If his bid’ah (innovation) amounts to shirk, such as calling upon someone other than Allaah, making vows to someone other than Allaah, or believing that their Shaykhs possess attributes that belong to Allaah alone – such as perfect knowledge, knowledge of the unseen or the power to influence events – then prayers offered behind him are not valid.

If his bid’ah does not amount to shirk, such as reciting Adhkaar that were narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but doing that in unison and swaying from side to side, then prayers offered behind him are valid, but the Muslim should look for an Imaam to pray behind who is not a follower of innovation, because that will increase his reward and is farther removed from evil.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/353
May Almighty Allaah accept our prayer as an act of worship.

Amin, Jazakallah khairan as always, brother.

@OP, which Salat? Do you even perform Wudu correctly in the first place before ever talking of Salat?! Such is the self-beliefs of Wahabi cult.

AlBaqir:
@OP, which Salat? Do you even perform Wudu correctly in the first place before ever talking of Salat?! Such is the self-beliefs of Wahabi cult.

Mr. Shia sorry, I'm done arguing with you and your fellow infidels.

Surah Al-Kafiroon, Verse 6:
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

AllstarZ:
Amin, Jazakallah khairan as always, brother.

Aameen wa iyyaak

Newnas:

Mr. Shia sorry, I'm done arguing with you and your fellow infidels.
Surah Al-Kafiroon, Verse 6:
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
"To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
(English - Mohsin Khan)
via iQuran

Subhanallah!

may Allah guide you and give you the courage to open your mind and see the truth of Islam of Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, the messenger of Allah, and his purified Ahlul-Bayt (as), and not the so called "islam" of Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahab (la), the horn of shaitan of Najd, and that of the terrorist Ibn Taymiyyah and his Umayyad predecessors.

so when a human testifies to LA ILA IL-LAL-LAH, MUHAMMAD RASUL-LUL-LAH, that in your misguidance and Wahhabi Takfiri extremism is not enough to make that person a Muslim. he must believe exactly as you do?

did not the holy Prophet (s) state that anyone who testifies with his tongue and believe in his heart in LA ILA IL-LAL-LAH, MUHAMMAD RASUL-LUL-LAH is a Muslim?

did he also not state that if a Muslim calls another Muslim who testifies in LA ILA IL-LAL-LAH, MUHAMMAD RASUL-LUL-LAH a kafir then the former is the one who is a kafir?

i honestly do not know at this point if i should continue to beseech Allah to guide you out of your disease of Wahhabi Takfiri fanaticism and extremism or if i should simply send Allah's curse on you and your likes. there is nothing to be proud of sharing the same religion with you and your likes. in the name of Takfirism you kill the innocent women and children the world over. you have defamed Islam. no one likes to be your co-religionist. it is a bitter pill indeed. Allah is the best of judges!

AlBaqir:
@OP, which Salat? Do you even perform Wudu correctly in the first place before ever talking of Salat?! Such is the self-beliefs of Wahabi cult.

do you mind the self-conceited misguided Wahhabi Takfiri?

ShiaMuslim:


Subhanallah!

may Allah guide you and give you the courage to open your mind and see the truth of Islam of Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, the messenger of Allah, and his purified Ahlul-Bayt (as), and not the so called "islam" of Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahab (la), the horn of shaitan of Najd, and that of the terrorist Ibn Taymiyyah and his Umayyad predecessors.

so when a human testifies to LA ILA IL-LAL-LAH, MUHAMMAD RASUL-LUL-LAH, that in your misguidance and Wahhabi Takfiri extremism is not enough to make that person a Muslim. he must believe exactly as you do?

did not the holy Prophet (s) state that anyone who testifies with his tongue and believe in his heart in LA ILA IL-LAL-LAH, MUHAMMAD RASUL-LUL-LAH is a Muslim?

did he also not state that if a Muslim calls another Muslim who testifies in LA ILA IL-LAL-LAH, MUHAMMAD RASUL-LUL-LAH a kafir then the former is the one who is a kafir?

i honestly do not know at this point if i should continue to beseech Allah to guide you out of your disease of Wahhabi Takfiri fanaticism and extremism or if i should simply send Allah's curse on you and your likes. there is nothing to be proud of sharing the same religion with you and your likes. in the name of Takfirism you kill the innocent women and children the world over. you have defamed Islam. no one likes to be your co-religionist. it is a bitter pill indeed. Allah is the best of judges!

Why are you both feeling insecure about the OP? The reason is simple: You definitely know you are innovators!!!

Surah Al-Qiyama, Verse 14-15:
بَلِ الْإِنسَانُ عَلَىٰ نَفْسِهِ بَصِيرَةٌ

Nay! man is evidence against himself,


وَلَوْ أَلْقَىٰ مَعَاذِيرَهُ

Though he puts forth his excuses.
(English - Shakir)

via iQuran

As for your curses and insults, I'm not surprised, I don't expect any good from the one who insults Abu Bakr, Umar, the wives of the Prophet alyhissolaat wassalaam etc.
So, I beseech Allah to give you all whatever reward you deserve for your foul and slanderous accusations of the pious slaves of Allah.

Lastly, your claim that whoever says the shahaadah is not to be called kafir. Yes this is true if he hasn't done what nullifies his shahaadah.
Anyone who spends just a little of his time with the books of fiqh - written by past and present scholars- will see that they usually have a chapter to discuss matters of apostasy and the rulings of apostates.
So, the shahaadah has nullifiers and one of such is seeking refuge or assistance with the dead or grave-worship which is one of the major rites of shia visit to karbala.

Part of those nullifiers is; making jest of any of the signs of Allah such as His religion, His Messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam, His commandments, His reward, His punishment, the mosque, the hijab, the beards etc.

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 65-66:
وَلَئِن سَأَلْتَهُمْ لَيَقُولُنَّ إِنَّمَا كُنَّا نَخُوضُ وَنَلْعَبُ قُلْ أَبِاللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ وَرَسُولِهِ كُنتُمْ تَسْتَهْزِئُونَ

If you ask them (about this), they declare: "We were only talking idly and joking." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger (SAW) that you were mocking?"

لَا تَعْتَذِرُوا قَدْ كَفَرْتُم بَعْدَ إِيمَانِكُمْ إِن نَّعْفُ عَن طَائِفَةٍ مِّنكُمْ نُعَذِّبْ طَائِفَةً بِأَنَّهُمْ كَانُوا مُجْرِمِينَ

Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after you had believed. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you because they were Mujrimun (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, criminals, etc.).
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

So, stop pouring emotions that are void of wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

Talking about tekfeeris: Shia are the worst of all deviant sects in that. Which other tekfeer, misguidance and deviation could be greater than letting your hideous tongue loose at the two closest companions of Allah's messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam.

Aqeedatu awwalan law kānuu ya'lamuun! "Creed first if they have known!" A lot of people often commence the acquisition of Islamic knowledge with subjects like fiqh (worship-jurispudence), nahw&sarf (grammar&syntax) etc, while creed is taken last or neglected and this make them fall into many errors. Mistake(s) could render one an innovator or even an apostate. Allãhs refuge is sought! Start learning the right aqeedah today! May Allãh bless you all.

Even before I open this thread, I knew that there will be some sort of differences among the ummah .

Newnas:


Why are you both feeling insecure about the OP? The reason is simple: You definitely know you are innovators!!!

Surah Al-Qiyama, Verse 14-15:
بَلِ الْإِنسَانُ عَلَىٰ نَفْسِهِ بَصِيرَةٌ

Nay! man is evidence against himself,


وَلَوْ أَلْقَىٰ مَعَاذِيرَهُ

Though he puts forth his excuses.
(English - Shakir)

via iQuran

I was not replying to your OP. i was replying to your blind sectarian insult calling another Muslim a kaffir.

don't you know how to read?

As for your curses and insults, I'm not surprised, I don't expect any good from the one who insults Abu Bakr, Umar, the wives of the Prophet alyhissolaat wassalaam etc.
So, I beseech Allah to give you all whatever reward you deserve for your foul and slanderous accusations of the pious slaves of Allah.

we do not insult them. we send la'nat on them. sending la'nat is a divine and Quranic sunnah. Allah, his angels, and prophets and the believers send la'nat on the evildoers.

Lastly, your claim that whoever says the shahaadah is not to be called kafir. Yes this is true if he hasn't done what nullifies his shahaadah.
Anyone who spends just a little of his time with the books of fiqh - written by past and present scholars- will see that they usually have a chapter to discuss matters of apostasy and the rulings of apostates.

and who do you think you are to tell others that their shahadatain is nullified? and how can a Muslim who recites and believes in the shahadatain actually nullify his belief? it is only the deluded mind of a Wahhabi Takfiri fanatic who thinks he knows it all, has the right to certify who is Muslim enough and who isnt and he is the only guided Muslim to make such claims.

So, the shahaadah has nullifiers and one of such is seeking refuge or assistance with the dead or grave-worship which is one of the major rites of shia visit to karbala.

you are sick!

so grave visitation is "grave worship", but facing the Ka'bah to pray and kissing the black stone are not "idol worship"? of course all of them are not. it is your misinterpretation and thinking you have a divine right to define and look into the mind of people and identify their intentions that makes you impose on people Takfir.

does this also fall under the category of shirk:

In his Rijal book Al-Thuqat (8:456:14411), under the entry of Ali bin Musa al-Ridha, Ibn Hibban relates his own account of going to Al-Ridha’s grave, performing tawassul through him and states that whenever “I was afflicted with a problem during my stay in Tus, I would visit the grave of Ali bin Musa (Allah’s blessings be upon his grandfather and him) and ask Allah to relieve me of that problem and it (my dua) would be answered and the problem alleviated. And this is something I did, and found to work, many times …”

what of this:

Holy Quran 18:21
"And similarly, We caused them to be found that they [who found them] would know that the promise of Allah is truth and that of the Hour there is no doubt. [That was] when they disputed among themselves about their affair and [then] said, "Construct over them a structure. Their Lord is most knowing about them." Said those who prevailed in the matter, "We will surely take [for ourselves] over them a masjid."

Part of those nullifiers is; making jest of any of the signs of Allah such as His religion, His Messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam, His commandments, His reward, His punishment, the mosque, the hijab, the beards etc.

Surah At-Taubah, Verse 65-66:
وَلَئِن سَأَلْتَهُمْ لَيَقُولُنَّ إِنَّمَا كُنَّا نَخُوضُ وَنَلْعَبُ قُلْ أَبِاللَّهِ وَآيَاتِهِ وَرَسُولِهِ كُنتُمْ تَسْتَهْزِئُونَ

If you ask them (about this), they declare: "We were only talking idly and joking." Say: "Was it at Allah, and His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and His Messenger (SAW) that you were mocking?"

لَا تَعْتَذِرُوا قَدْ كَفَرْتُم بَعْدَ إِيمَانِكُمْ إِن نَّعْفُ عَن طَائِفَةٍ مِّنكُمْ نُعَذِّبْ طَائِفَةً بِأَنَّهُمْ كَانُوا مُجْرِمِينَ

Make no excuse; you have disbelieved after you had believed. If We pardon some of you, We will punish others amongst you because they were Mujrimun (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners, criminals, etc.).
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

So, stop pouring emotions that are void of wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

Talking about tekfeeris: Shia are the worst of all deviant sects in that. Which other tekfeer, misguidance and deviation could be greater than letting your hideous tongue loose at the two closest companions of Allah's messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam.

learn the definition of "companion" and get a dictionary to learn what is the meaning of "closest". then check the Quran if any companion was condemned, and search the hadiths if any companion was condemned. then compare what you find with your claim of "letting your hideous tongue loose". if stating what the Quran backs and is found in the authentic hadith narration (in Sunni sources first and foremost, before mentioning Shia sources), then for our tongues to be loose is a pride and our hideous tongues are quality you lack.

you remain a silly Wahhabi Takfiri extremist. and takfirism is one of the nullifiers of shahadatain. how did you manage to forget to state that?

IdisuleOurOwn:
Even before I open this thread, I knew that there will be some sort of differences among the ummah .

One of the functions of shaitan as per Quran is sowing division among people and enmity.

the holy Prophet Muhammad (s) described Najd, the home of the founder of Wahhabism Ibn Abdul-Wahab, as where the horn of shaitan shall rise.

Wahhabism's job is to sow discord among Sunnis-they claim to belong to-and Shia, who they claim are heretics.

for example Saudi Wahhabi government wastes money to polish its image and pretend it cares about bringing religions together, and in particular Christians and Muslims, while the same time Wahhabis are spreading hatred among Muslims and Muslims are butchered for the likes of the claims our Wahhabi Newny*sh is spreading on the forum against other Muslims. everything to them about other Muslims, even against their fellow Sunnis, is shirk and bid'ah. only them follow Tawheed and Hidayah. they want to reach out, in pretense, to other religion while they set the house of Islam on fire. of course, their reaching out is pretense as they kill anyone and everyone who is not them! this is the crux of Wahhabi Takifirism. it is satanism and enmity to humanity as a whole. where else have you heard of people kill other people because they do not hold on to their own beliefs? this is not Islam. Islam gives humanity a choice to believe or disbelieve.

ShiaMuslim:


we do not insult them. we send la'nat on them. sending la'nat is a divine and Quranic sunnah. Allah, his angels, and prophets and the believers send la'nat on the evildoers.

Please do not let the provocation of a newly recruited wahabi dog pushed you to the wall. May Allah forgive us all. I know you never meant that because that obviously is not what we do. The fact that you are not a follower of Yasir Habib who curses those personalities openly on air, you should not respond in that manner. Even the Ziyarat of Ashura only named Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, his son Yazid, Umar ibn saad, shimr thil jawsan and Ibn Ziyad. It never mentioned Abubakar, Umar, wives of the prophet etc. And I believe you are aware that all Shi'i Maraji declared insulting and cursing any sahabah (except those doomed ones mentioned in Ziyarat Ashura) as Haram.

Newnas:
QUESTION (344)
Can we observe our prayers behind an Imaam who does Bid'ah (Innovation)?.

ANSWER TO THE QUESTION

Praise be to Allaah.

If his bid’ah (innovation) amounts to shirk, such as calling upon someone other than Allaah, making vows to someone other than Allaah, or believing that their Shaykhs possess attributes that belong to Allaah alone – such as perfect knowledge, knowledge of the unseen or the power to influence events – then prayers offered behind him are not valid.

Has there ever been any muslim shuyuk who claimed this attributes?. I havent seen one, past or present.

If his bid’ah does not amount to shirk, such as reciting Adhkaar that were narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but doing that in unison and swaying from side to side, then prayers offered behind him are valid, but the Muslim should look for an Imaam to pray behind who is not a follower of innovation, because that will increase his reward and is farther removed from evil.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/353
May Almighty Allaah accept our prayer as an act of worship.

Their "fatwa" spin in circle all the time. Is this sheikh (and you) not aware of many ahadith narrations about group dhikr?. Honestly, with all due respect, this fatwa is meaningless to me. Innovation is real...yes. But how's reciting Adhkaar in unison amounts to bida'a?. I am really sick and tired of these lopsided fatawa.

Highlighted indicates and encourages sticking one's nose in others business, stiffing around for "innovators". Waste of time. It encourages youths today to discriminate masajid.

For your information, there are plentiful ahadith in support of group dhikr. And swaying from side to side is simply borne out of "boredom", especially overnight nafilat. If this sheikh doesnt do it or support it doesnt mean it is bida'a. Swaying side by side and chanting shahada (for instance), simply keeps you going and keep you awake. It is not bida'a unless maybe, if someone deliberately says you MUST do so every time you do dhikr.

Newnas:


I'm done arguing with you and your fellow infidels.

Surah Al-Kafiroon, Verse 6:
لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

"To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

This is rather dangerous. Did you ever read hadith narrated by Umar(ra) calling believer a kafir?. Go and read the hadith. That's your homework.

ShiaMuslim:


Subhanallah!

may Allah guide you and give you the courage to open your mind and see the truth of Islam of Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, the messenger of Allah, and his purified Ahlul-Bayt (as), and not the so called "islam" of Muhammad Ibn Abdul-Wahab (la), the horn of shaitan of Najd, and that of the terrorist Ibn Taymiyyah and his Umayyad predecessors.

You'd respect their shuyuk. This sheikh you mentioned can not defend himself now. Even in his time, his contemporary respected him despite their differences. Hold Mr. Newnas responsible for his actions and not the predecessors even though he's influenced by them.

Newnas seems to recently adopted his new ideology. Anyways, allow me to inform you that shuyuk you respect so much have absolutely no monopoly over Islam. Islam is too big for you to discard others you dont deem fit simply by their identification.

too much crap... I don't where to start explaining matters.
لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله العلي العظيم
Allahul musta'an

Newnas:
too much crap... I don't where to start explaining matters.

لا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله العلي العظيم

Allahul musta'an

That would simply means you have no idea what you posted, isn't?

hmmm.

Empiree:
That would simply means you have no idea what you posted, isn't?

No, that would simply mean these people are too far from pristine Islamic understanding.
.....................................................................................
See the deviant shia claiming that they only visit graves. There are several videos of shia worshipping and calling upon graves in youtube so what's the shia man claiming?
Grave visit is different from grave worship. yes, You shia go to the graves to seek protection, assistance and relief from the dead. So there is clear difference between the polytheism you practice in karbala and the visitation the messenger recommended.

In the sunnah visitation, the visitors pray to Allah to have mercy and forgiveness for the buries. But in the polytheistic visitation of you shia and Sufi deviants. What you do is pray to the dead for assistance, help, relief protection, provision etc.

Many of them even make vows to the buried that: "Oh master, if you do this for me, I'll definitely slaughter a ram or bring so and so gift to this grave" and similar statements of the innovated polytheistic visitation of the graves.

And that deviant also said they don't insult them, they only send lanat upon them.

Your case is like the fool who is accused of insulting his parents but says no I don't insult them I only give them dirty slaps!!!

I said you insult the righteous slaves of Allah, you said you only curse them.
.............

And see how that one tries to hide their shia misguidance of cursing the companions with taqiyyah.

But only one who lacks insight will not see beyond your taqiyyah lies.

The fact that you are not a follower of Yasir Habib who curses those personalities openly on air, you should not respond in that manner

You expressly stated that you curse them but you just don't subscribe to cursing them in the public. You are still an upcoming taqiyyah apprentice!

Newnas:


No, that would simply mean these people are too far from pristine Islamic understanding.
.....................................................................................
See the deviant shia claiming that they only visit graves. There are several videos of shia worshipping and calling upon graves in youtube so what's the shia man claiming?
Grave visit is different from grave worship. yes, You shia go to the graves to seek protection, assistance and relief from the dead. So there is clear difference between the polytheism you practice in karbala and the visitation the messenger recommended.

In the sunnah visitation, the visitors pray to Allah to have mercy and forgiveness for the buries. But in the polytheistic visitation of you shia and Sufi deviants. What you do is pray to the dead for assistance, help, relief protection, provision etc.

Many of them even make vows to the buried that: "Oh master, if you do this for me, I'll definitely slaughter a ram or bring so and so gift to this grave" and similar statements of the innovated polytheistic visitation of the graves.

Your response here does not correlate with your op though. Anyways, I am not unaware of what you said and I declared my innocence of what they do. I am glad you are aware it is not ALL sufis and ALL Shia. The people you referred to are pseudo. There have been calls by Sufis and Shia Ulama against those people. You can't deny their haven't been efforts to rid those practices.

Empiree:
Your response here does not correlate with your op though. Anyways, I am not unaware of what you said and I declared my innocence of what they do. I am glad you are aware it is not ALL sufis and ALL Shia. [u]The people you referred to are pseudo.[/b]There have been calls by Sufis and Shia Ulama against those people. You can't deny their haven't been efforts to rid those practices.

@underlined
I don't know what you take me for. An ignorant toddler?

It's in the books of the Shia that a visit to the karbala shrine is equal to ten hajjs. This is definitely a lie. AlhamduliLlah they didn't attribute it to the Messenger alyhissolaat wassalaam. And that makes the falsehood in it easier to discover.

As for the Sufi, please see fuyoodhaat robaaniuyah. You will overwhelming proof for what you seek.

Newnas:


As for the Sufi, please see fuyoodhaat robaaniuyah. You will overwhelming proof for what you seek.

Sorry, there is no book on earth as excellent and perfect as the word of Allah, the Qur'an. Any other books are destined to be corrupted. Until you can proof to me that ALL sufis do that, your claim gets K-leg.

Don't tell me you never heard sufi shuyuk speak against it. Anyone can write whatever they want. Did you see or hear that sufi shuyuk like Sheik Adam, Kamaldeen etc involved in such silly things?. Even sheik Hamza Yusuf spoke against it recently. He said visiting grave is exactly what you described above.

Anyone can write any book. And yes, I will take a look at the book. I hope you notice Sufi movement on fb condemning fake sufis?.

Newnas:



As for the Sufi, please see fuyoodhaat robaaniuyah. You will overwhelming proof for what you seek.

The book you mentioned, you mind telling us chapter and page please?. I found the book but it's generally talking about "Purification Of Soul" throughout. I have not come across your allegation, sir.

Newnas:


No, that would simply mean these people are too far from pristine Islamic understanding.
.....................................................................................
See the deviant shia claiming that they only visit graves. There are several videos of shia worshipping and calling upon graves in youtube so what's the shia man claiming?
Grave visit is different from grave worship. yes, You shia go to the graves to seek protection, assistance and relief from the dead. So there is clear difference between the polytheism you practice in karbala and the visitation the messenger recommended.

Obviously whoever worship anything or seek assistance from other than Allah (while conceding Allah's attributions to that thing) has committed polytheist act whether at the grave or anywhere else, from the living or dead (I.e seeking help).

Newnas:


In the sunnah visitation, the visitors pray to Allah to have mercy and forgiveness for the buries. But in the polytheistic visitation of you shia and Sufi deviants. What you do is pray to the dead for assistance, help, relief protection, provision etc.

Many of them even make vows to the buried that: "Oh master, if you do this for me, I'll definitely slaughter a ram or bring so and so gift to this grave" and similar statements of the innovated polytheistic visitation of the graves.

Alhamdulillah you clarified it yourself saying "deviant Shia and deviant Sufi". Of course there are deviants in all schools. However going to the graves (ziyarat) of the Prophets, the Imams and the Awliyah using them as means (wasila) to reach Allah is absolutely per with the Quran and Sunnah of Nabi Muhammad, salallahu alayhi wa Ahli.

Allah says: "Say, Invoke those whom you claim (to be gods) besides Him. They have no power to remove your distress nor to bring about any change (in your state). They (themselves) are the ones who supplicate, seeking the wasillah unto their Lord, whoever is nearer [to Him], expecting His mercy and fearing His punishment.' Indeed your Lord's punishment is a thing to beware of."

# This ayah reveals that Prophet 'Isa (as) and other people that were deified practiced Tawassul. Each one of them took a person nearer to Allah than himself as his wasilah. Meanwhile, Prophet Isa (as), during his time was the nearest creature to Allah alive. So, it was impossible that he was using a living person as his wasilah.

PRAYING AT THE PROPHET'S GRAVE

Quran says:

"We sent not the Messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. IF THEY HAD ONLY, WHEN THEY WERE UNJUST TO THEMSELVES, COME TO THE MESSENGER AND ASKED ALLAH'S FORGIVENESS, and the Messenger had (also) asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful." {Qur'an, Surah an-Nisa, 4:64}

1. Al-hafiz Ibn Kathir in tafsir of above verse documents:

"Jama'at (Many scholars) have stated this tradition. One of them is Abu Mansur al-Sabbagh who writes in his book Al-Shamil Al-Hikayat-ul-mashhurah that, according to ‘Utbi, once he was sitting beside the Prophet’s grave when a bedouin came and he said:

“Peace be on you, O Allah’s Messenger. I have heard that Allah says: ‘(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, extremely Merciful.’

I have come to you, asking forgiveness for my sins and I make you as my intermediary before my Lord and I have come to you for this purpose.”

Then he recited these verses: “O, the most exalted among the buried people who improved the worth of the plains and the hillocks! May I sacrifice my life for this grave which is made radiant by you, (the Prophet,) the one who is (an embodiment) of mercy and forgiveness.”

Then the bedouin went away and I fell asleep. In my dream I saw the Holy Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). He said to me: O ‘Utbi, the bedouin is right, go and give him the good news that Allah has forgiven his sins.

Ref: {Ibn Kathir, Tafsir-ul-Qur'an al-azim Volume 004, Page No. 140, Under the Verse 4:64]}

Notice: This report have been deliberately removed from the English version of Tafsir Ibn Kathir but remain intact in the Arabic version.

2. Imam an-Nawawi said while emphatically proving Tawassul said:

(The pilgrim) should turn towards the face of the Messenger of Allah and make him a means (tawassul) for the sake of himself and also seek his intercession (shafa'at) towards reaching God. In this regard “THE BEST OF SAYINGS” is the Hikayat of Imam al-Marwadi and Qadhi Abu at-Tayb and “ALL MY OTHER ASHAAB (I.E. SHAWAFI) also narrate it by considering it HASAN/RECOMMENDED” the narration of Utbi” i.e. A Bedouin who visited the Prophet's grave and sat beside it said: Peace unto you O Messenger of Allah, I have heard Allah has said: Had they, when they had wronged themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness and the Apostle had asked forgiveness for them, they would certainly have found Allah Most-Propitious, Most-Merciful. (Holy Qur'an 4: 64).

Therefore, I have come to you for forgiveness of my sins and seeking your intercession with Allah"
Ref: {Imam an-Nawawi in Al-Majmu', Volume No. 8, Page No. 274}

3. Imam Qurtubi on Tawassul:

Its related from Abu Sadiq (ra) that Imam Ali (ra) said: "Three days after burying the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) The Araabi did come and did throw himself on the grave of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him), he took the earth and threw it on his head. He said: "YA RASULULLAH! (Peace Be Upon Him) you did speak and we did hear, you learned from Allah and we did learn from you. Between those things which Allah did send you, is following: (4:64) I am the one, which is a sinner and now I did came to you, so that you may ask for me." After that a call from the grave did came: "Theres no doubt, you are forgiven!"

Ref: {Tafsir al-Qurtubi, al-Jami li Ahkam al-Quran Volume 006, Page No. 439, Under the Verse, 4:64}

4. It is attributed to Dawud bin Abu Salih. He says: one day Marwan came and he saw that a man was lying down with his mouth turned close to the Prophet’s grave. Then he (Marwan) said to him, “Do you know what are you doing?” When he moved towards him, he saw that it was Abu Ayyub al-Ansari. (In reply) he said, “Yes (I know) I have come to the Messenger of Allah and not to a stone. I have heard it from the Messenger of God not to cry over religion when its guardian is competent. Yes, shed tears over religion when its guardian is incompetent.

References
* Imam Hakim declared it "Sahih" while Imam Dhahabi "AGREED" with him [Al Mustadrak vol. 4, p.520, Hadith # 8571]

* Ahmad bin Hambal with a sound chain of transmission in his Musnad Volume 005: Hadith Number 422; Hakim, al-Mustadrak Volume 004: Hadith Number 515

Above hadith recorded with another chain by Imam Tabrani
* Tabrani, Book : Ma'jam Al Ausath,Vol: 1,
Page : 94, Hadith number : 284

* Taqi Ud Din Subki, Book : Shifa As Siqam, Chapter :Fasl Ath Thani ; Fi Tatabba Kalimaatihi, Volume : 1,Page : 342-343

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Newnas:
And that deviant also said they don't insult them, they only send lanat upon them.
Your case is like the fool who is accused of insulting his parents but says no I don't insult them I only give them dirty slaps!!!
I said you insult the righteous slaves of Allah, you said you only curse them.
.............
And see how that one tries to hide their shia misguidance of cursing the companions with taqiyyah.
But only one who lacks insight will not see beyond your taqiyyah lies.
You expressly stated that you curse them but you just don't subscribe to cursing them in the public. You are still an upcoming taqiyyah apprentice!

you are comparing apples to oranges. even if your parents are idolators, Islam teaches us to treat them with kindness. however the tyrants you call "righteous slaves of Allah" were nothing but oppressors. we have not stated except what history affirms to and is recorded in your books of hadiths and history. Islam does not teach us to submit to the will of oppressors. in fact, the Quran's stories are mostly about resisting oppression of tyrants. e.g. Musa (as) VS Pharoah.

Newnas:


No, that would simply mean these people are too far from pristine Islamic understanding.
.....................................................................................
See the deviant shia claiming that they only visit graves. There are several videos of shia worshipping and calling upon graves in youtube so what's the shia man claiming?
Grave visit is different from grave worship. yes, You shia go to the graves to seek protection, assistance and relief from the dead. So there is clear difference between the polytheism you practice in karbala and the visitation the messenger recommended.

In the sunnah visitation, the visitors pray to Allah to have mercy and forgiveness for the buries. But in the polytheistic visitation of you shia and Sufi deviants. What you do is pray to the dead for assistance, help, relief protection, provision etc.

Many of them even make vows to the buried that: "Oh master, if you do this for me, I'll definitely slaughter a ram or bring so and so gift to this grave" and similar statements of the innovated polytheistic visitation of the graves.

please, bring those videos and let us see them for ourselves.

when you bring those videos, so that you do not take us for brainwashed fools, make sure they establish these:

1.) the persons are Shia

2.) they are worshiping the grave. then you have to tell us what "worship" you are referring to and what is "worship". or else "Tawaf" and holding the pillars of the Ka'baah can be referred to as "worship".

3.) what those persons are saying or reciting.

i have given you a verse from the Holy Quran and also a hadith of Ibn Hibban, one of your highly respected scholars of past, who visited grave, pointing to the fact that Tawassul is permissible. we Shia practice Tawassul and visit grave based on the Quran and Sunnah. if you insist on calling grave visitation "worship" then it is either you are a liar, or if any such "grave worshiper" is found the person is not Shia and not Muslim in the first place; he is following his own desires. however, from the claims of referring to other Muslims, particularly Shia Muslims as "grave worshipers" and accusing them of shirk (idolatry), Wahhabis have not brought up any proof other than evidently judging the intentions of others. if you judge the intentions of others, then your intentions can also be judged and you can equally be called idolator for the simplest reasons, including and not limited to facing the Qiblah and the circumbulation and holding on to the walls of the Ka'baah and reciting dua, and kissing the Black Stone. if the latter acts stated are not idolatry then what makes your accusation of calling grave visitors "grave worshipers" credible?

i do not find it surprising you are out of words and out of proof because you are lost. someone lost would not know where to start. all you do is to incite hatred and instigate discord among Muslims.

Newnas:
QUESTION (344)
Can we observe our prayers behind an Imaam who does Bid'ah (Innovation)?.

ANSWER TO THE QUESTION

Praise be to Allaah.

If his bid’ah (innovation) amounts to shirk, such as calling upon someone other than Allaah, making vows to someone other than Allaah, or believing that their Shaykhs possess attributes that belong to Allaah alone – such as perfect knowledge, knowledge of the unseen or the power to influence events – then prayers offered behind him are not valid.

If his bid’ah does not amount to shirk, such as reciting Adhkaar that were narrated from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), but doing that in unison and swaying from side to side, then prayers offered behind him are valid, but the Muslim should look for an Imaam to pray behind who is not a follower of innovation, because that will increase his reward and is farther removed from evil.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 7/353
May Almighty Allaah accept our prayer as an act of worship.

Jazakim Allah khayran bro Newnas. May Allah increase us in knowledge.

Farmerforlife:

Jazakim Allah khayran bro Newnas. May Allah increase us in knowledge.

Aameen wa iyyaak

Newnas:


Aameen wa iyyaak

Perhaps if you can be bothered enough, you could point out to the shia pundits that we Muslims do not ask the Kaaba or any dead inhabitant therein to fulfill our needs, nor grant us blessings that we know are in the hands of Allah alone, not dead people. Perhaps you might also wish to remind them that there is a huge difference between supplicating
"oh Allah [/b]grant me such and such and such need for the sake of the piety of such and such a person"
which is the tawssul permitted by the scholars and saying
"[b]oh Fatima, oh Ali, oh Abbass abul Fadl grant me my needs"
which of course is clear shirk as was practiced by the idol worshippers, and the Christians (who at least worship only 3gods, not 14).

Or perhaps you might want to show them this video that they asked for...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHksb2YOl4c

For the record, 'imam arRiza' with the ' healing hotline' is the dead man inside the grave in the shrine.

Oh, and you might want to inform them that the cited tafseer of ibn Katheer of surat anNisaa verse 64, purporting to have a local bedouin go to the grave and ask for the prophet's (ﷺ) intercession is just a tale, for which there is neither basis nor isnaad, which is why it was not included in the abridged tafseer translation.

BismiLLahir Rahmaanir Raheem
A complete retort to the deviant alliance.

I say ~wa biLLaahi taofeeq~
Using people (whether pious or otherwise) as wasila (means of seeking closeness) to Allah is prohibited rather it is tantamount to disbelief.

The same argument you deviants brought forth is the same argument of the polytheists as Allah mentioned in Surah Zumar:

Surah Az-Zumar, Verse 3:
أَلَا لِلَّهِ الدِّينُ الْخَالِصُ وَالَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاءَ مَا نَعْبُدُهُمْ إِلَّا لِيُقَرِّبُونَا إِلَى اللَّهِ زُلْفَىٰ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ فِي مَا هُمْ فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَا يَهْدِي مَنْ هُوَ كَاذِبٌ كَفَّارٌ

Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.
(English - Mohsin Khan)

via iQuran

As you can see, Allah calls them disbelievers in the end of the verse.

They never claimed that their idols were Supreme, they only took them as wasila (intermediaries).
This claim is still common among the polytheists till today.
the Christians say that they don't worship Jesus but only take him as a bridge between them and God because. And we all agree that they are disbelievers.
Note: Eesa bn Maryam that the Christians take as wasila is a messenger and even one of the five ulul azm. There is no one else apart from Allah's messenger in this ummah who could be better than Eesa alyhissolaat wassalaam.
Yet those who take him as intermediary are expressly declared as disbelievers.

The question is this, is it that once a person attributes himself to Islam it doesn't matter whatever act of disbelief and sin he commits?!

I don't know where people got this double standard from.
I thank Allah for the mercy of knowing the pristine Islam.

to be continued.... in shaa Allah

Farmerforlife:


Perhaps if you can be bothered enough, you could point out to the shia pundits that we Muslims do not ask the Kaaba or any dead inhabitant therein to fulfill our needs, nor grant us blessings that we know are in the hands of Allah alone, not dead people. Perhaps you might also wish to remind them that there is a huge difference between supplicating
"oh Allah [/b]grant me such and such and such need for the sake of the piety of such and such a person"
which is the tawssul permitted by the scholars and saying
"[b]oh Fatima, oh Ali, oh Abbass abul Fadl grant me my needs"
which of course is clear shirk as was practiced by the idol worshippers, and the Christians (who at least worship only 3gods, not 14).

Or perhaps you might want to show them this video that they asked for...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHksb2YOl4c

For the record, 'imam arRiza' with the ' healing hotline' is the dead man inside the grave in the shrine.

Oh, and you might want to inform them that the cited tafseer of ibn Katheer of surat anNisaa verse 64, purporting to have a local bedouin go to the grave and ask for the prophet's (ﷺ) intercession is just a tale, for which there is neither basis nor isnaad, which is why it was not included in the abridged tafseer translation.

JazaakumuLLaahu khayraa.
you have just summarized my retort.