Ibime:


Kingsley Coman's loan is a €14m Euro loan fee with an option to purchase at €20m ie they have already started paying the players full purchase price within the loan structure.

At the end of his loan, Bayern would have paid €34m for the player. . . . . or a €14m penalty for misuse of the talent, if they choose not to make him permanent.

He is therefore virtually a Bayern player and would have to be really crap not to get opportunities. Such structure guarantees opportunities, and only a really washed player will fail to capitalise (eg Falcao at Man Utd).

A traditional loan however would pay £0-£1m for use of the player over the year, with no incentive for the loaning club to develop the player especially if they have another player who is close to the level of the loanee.

Nihilstjnr:


My point will be lost if you exaggerate my statements like that.

Nihilstjnr:

Dele Alli is a member of the PFA team of the year. His contemporaries in that August collection are being priced at 20m minimum. Kante just signed for 30. Mahrez is reportefly being priced at 45m. Kane at 50m
It is patently silly for someone to say that Colkett and Lewis Cook are better than Alli. Statements like that irritate me to my marrow.

Nihilstjnr:
It's interesting that you point out how Lukaku and KDB are not from our setups. Does it matter? Are they not youth? Bamford is a Forest grad and Christensen came from Brondby.

Nihilstjnr:
I don't get your point with Josh Mceachran - Are we going to go through every single member of the academy until we find that 'aha!' moment?

Nihilstjnr:
The best you can describe Josh as for us was probably 'OK'. He got sent out on a couple of loans, did ok in some, not great in others...now in the championship. Perhaps could have been handled better. So what? I don't think that we missed his talent anyway...

FBS:

Thats one thing I don't do. Exaggerate. Not on this board anyway.


Not saying it aint so but what makes him even better? That he was a member of the PFA? That's all? Se you know Betrand was also in the PFA of the year (2015). So kini big deal?

One thing I can't stand is when people analyse players by reading newspapers. rara. mi o like e at all

diggz:

Roflmao.......
How you dey sha? Hope u gud?

Ibime:


Kingsley Coman's loan is a €14m Euro loan fee with an option to purchase at €20m ie they have already started paying the players full purchase price within the loan structure.

At the end of his loan, Bayern would have paid €34m for the player. . . . . or a €14m penalty for misuse of the talent, if they choose not to make him permanent.

He is therefore virtually a Bayern player and would have to be really crap not to get opportunities. Such structure guarantees opportunities, and only a really washed player will fail to capitalise (eg Falcao at Man Utd).

A traditional loan however would pay £0-£1m for use of the player over the year, with no incentive for the loaning club to develop the player especially if they have another player who is close to the level of the loanee.

A traditional loan is Serge Gnabry, a youngster who played so well for Arsenal 2 years ago, only to be told by Tony Pulis that he is not good enough for West Brom after one appearance. Are you kidding me?

Tony Pulis does not care about the development of the player and would not take the time to develop or coach him into what he wants. A privilege that was afforded to Jonathan Leko, a 17 year old similar style of player from West Brom academy who is afforded the coaching, effort and given ample game time as soon as it looked like West Brom would be secure in the topflight. Pulis simply has no incentive to coach Gnabry, but he has to coach Leko.




Boga is not better than Dembele, rightly so. But Dembele himself is good enough to take 1st team shirt at Chelsea.

My point being that the fact a player did not get games on loan is not evidence of a player's worth. In Boga's case, this was a bad loan because he was put in a no-win situation against Rennes best player and biggest asset.

Even if Boga and Dembele were equals on the pitch, there is ZERO CHANCE of Rennes giving Dembele's game-time to Boga, as their plan is to sell Dembele at season end for good money. Why would they lose millions in the name of "fair competition" while helping Chelsea develop their player?

amodu:


Do we still own Salah and Marin

raumdeuter:
Spy360, I agree with what Ibime is saying here.

If you have a young player on the brink of making first team and Barcelona send one of their young players to you on loan. EVen if your own player is slightly less talented.

If you play your own youth and he picks up form, he is yours and benefits your tram forever, If you play the Barcelona youth on loan and he performs, Barcelona would just come at anytime to tap their finger and collect him back then you are back to square 1 or even worse.

Unless you are a lesser club with no hope of getting anyone of that quality, you wont even invest energy in developing a loaned player who would eventually be taken away

The Coman example, Coman is literally a Bayern player now only that we would pay for him 2yrs after getting him, and Bayern gave the first option of refusal.

If he flops Bayern lose just 7M, If he blows, we would only pay 7M plus the 21M. 28M for a winger

raumdeuter:




I don reach

Now England have finally embraced who they are. A nation without talent and dependent on the weak EPL to give them the best. The best from a pile of garbage is still useless.

Now England players need to learn how to launch throwing into the box like Delap and Okocha, with hopes that Nolan would be somewhere to bundle it in

This tactics might actually make them beat Iceland next time around

Nihilstjnr:


Lest we forget



Instead of explicitly coming out to say so, you have couched that sentiment in an open ended statement. "Alli has no more talent that Jeremie Boga" - Of course, a valid inference could be made from this statement that Alli could actually have less talent than Boga. So please let us avoid playing with semantics. It's not like saying that Colkett and Alli have similar levels of talent is any less a ludicrous thing to say.

nateevs:



Don't be ridiculous Nihilist. Let's not turn a good exchange of wits into a battle of grammatical correctness. You know exactly what I meant and what I said was very clear enough. No innuendos and hidden meanings in this respect.

Nihilstjnr:


The big deal is when you start to hear things like Bertrand is not better than Ola Aina or *insert random academy name here* as egbon nateevs is keen to stress.



I don't understand this statement.

The former England footballer Ray Wilkins has told a court he is an alcoholic who has no choice but to stay away from alcohol or face ruining his life, as he received a four-year ban for drink-driving.

Wilkins, 59, pleaded guilty to the offence at Uxbridge magistrates court after being found to have been three times over the limit.

A member of the public spotted him driving his Mercedes in the middle of the road and straddling a bus lane along the A4 northern perimeter road in London on 1 July.

He was seen striking a kerb and drinking alcohol from a bottle behind the wheel. The witness took his keys away when the car stopped, to prevent a possible accident.

The district judge, Tim Boswell, gave Wilkins – who has two previous drink-driving convictions from 2013 – a 10-week suspended prison sentence, ordered him to do 140 hours’ unpaid work and banned him from driving for 48 months.

Wilkins said: “Abstinence is the only way I can cure this situation.”

Wilkins’ lawyer, Sarah-Kate McIntyre, told the court of his long-running battle against alcoholism, saying the former top-flight footballer was “ashamed and embarrassed” to be in the dock.

He believes he “blacked out”, she said. McIntyre said that Wilkins appreciated the danger he caused to himself and the public as well as the hardship he had caused his family, and that he accepted full responsibility for the offence.

nateevs:



You are still on about these things egbon Nateevs said. I have given you documented evidence. You can check for yourself what the response was when Dele Alli was recommended to Chelsea.

Ti n ba ti e nsinwin, se mo wa taa fun awon oga ni Chelsea ni?

It's not just my own opinion. I can understand why you feel strongly about it. However, it must carry some weight if others are beginning to see the light or if some had already seen that light before now.

My argument aimed to focus on a few things. Perhaps the main point was lost along the way but the crux of the argument was attacking the application of simplistic ideas to Youth development. And also that not every failed loan translates to average talent.

Ibime just gave you a perfect example of how a Manager may sideline a loaned player. But you are here telling us it's only about the talent. 'If you are good, you will play'.

In fact, I don lose appetite for the matter sef. I no know wetin I dey write again. I really hope that this argument will be revisited very soon.

By the way, ye ma pemi ni egbon jare. Wetin sef?

Pataki:
Hmmmmm. When the statement in bold is quoted in the subsequent future against you, hope you will have your two balls functional to reply me. Till the appropriate time, I am saving this quote of yours.

Nihilstjnr:


Egbon...

I think that we have so far focused on Bamford and Chalobah. Those two are not good enough and will never be good enough.

Of course what Ibime said is quite valid, and can happen in some cases - but definitely not to Bamford and Chalobah. Those two are just crap.

Bamford went to the easiest clubs in the world to excel if you are half decent. Which manager will want to stick to his 3 goal a season striker if there's a better option available?

Norwich got relegated because they could not score goals...you think that Bamford would not see shirt if he was good enough?

At Palace, last season 4 players shared the joint highest goal scorer tag - with 5 league goals. One of those players was a central defender. When Scott Dann is your joint highest goal scorer as a manager and you are facing relegation, would you ignore the striker you have on loan if he was actually good enough?

I want us to draw a distinction between who is good and who is not. Let us call shyt by it's proper name of Bamford.

THEN we can fully begin to examine which youths are not being given a fair chance

bigkesh:

Never in your life,I repeat never in your life should you ever butt in a sweet convo involving intelligent niggas...
You just spoiled the good trend of reasonable sequential analysis..

You are like a bungalow,nothing upstairs

diggz:
We all should not forget the crux of the issue which is, selling / loaning out our academy players just so we can waste money to buy / loan in trashy,epic useless player/players.

raumdeuter:


An old woman becomes uneasy when we talk about bones. We mention useless and an Arsenal fan is suddenly uneasy. Te Chelsea fans which we posted on their thread no complain, Na assanal know say they are synonymous with uselessness

Ibime:
If we want to play 4-4-2, please buy Carlos Tevez and collect that £50m for Costa.

He is a perfect 4-4-2 striker and Boca can't afford him/don't want him no more. They are virtually giving him away for free.

diggz:
How many of you would want lukaku back....? I saw he could be on his way back for less than 50mil. .!

I will take him ahead of morata and Diego Costa at the moment though.

timbros:
I don't know what you guys see in this Lukaku sef.

Morata>>>Lukaku anytime any day.

timbros:


I don't know what you guys see in this Lukaku sef.

Morata>>>Lukaku anytime any day.

hensben:
Kante to wear number 7. I think seven is not an ideal number for short player. Why not give him number 14.

diggz:


I am no fan of lukaku but morata greater than him ain't right bro.

How is morata even greater than lukaku? Just how...?

As a matter of fact the only thing greater about morata before and at the moment, is the guys price tag..... Not a single thing! Not youth goals, not professional club goals and definitely not national team goals....

Lukaku is a god compared to morata....