I've read lots of stories about Bini-Yoruba studies and use of some words but little on Bini-Igbo.From a personal experience,I once had an encounter with an Edoman on the name ''osakwe''.i told him it was an igbo name literally meaning 'God Agree'.he revealed that it has same meaning in edo.i also read on nairaland that ugbo means farm in both bini and igbo.i would like to know if there might be more similarities between bini and igbo.it is also not news that a lot of igbos believe that they migrated from bini.

Ogbe--quarters in Igbo.
Ogbe--quarters in Bini.

There's more to those words that just the letters that make them up. Tone is also a factor that has to also be accounted for, because tone is a lexical item. It carries meaning. If the words share similar tone patterns, then there's a feasible connection between the two. If though, they don't share similar tone patterns, then it could probably just be coincidental.

Yeah, and the Bini and Igbo look similar as well, hmm . . . . . . . .

Benin city in the past was a mix of people of different ethnic background and most outward migrations were like the biblical exodus where people of a particular tribe were expelled.

Read this story on the history os Asa in Abia State.


Ancestors of Asa People

The Asa people pledged allegiance to ancestors of two distinct groups known as the Ozos and Ipus who migrated northwards from the coastal region. They were Ibo origins that broke up from the Benin Empire just like Ndokis, that migrated eastwards, then southwards to the coastline, then later moved northwards to settle in the area north of their present location.

Oma---good in Igbo

Oma---good in Bini


Ndo---sorry in Igbo

do---sorry in Bini

I read somewhere that Nri and Edo had diplomatic relations in the past. How true is that? and what kind of relationship existed?

ChinenyeN:

I read somewhere that Nri and Edo had diplomatic relations in the past. How true is that? and what kind of relationship existed?

I would think that would have been the only option, I don't think they could ignore each other, and there's no way they could have not known about each other.

Makes sense. What I'm more interested in though is the kind of relationship that existed between the two groups (Nri & Edo).

Farm in yoruba- Igbó
Farm in Bini and igbo- ugbo

Abagworo:

I've read lots of stories about Bini-Yoruba studies and use of some words but little on Bini-Igbo.From a personal experience,I once had an encounter with an Edoman on the name ''osakwe''.i told him it was an igbo name literally meaning 'God Agree'.he revealed that it has same meaning in edo.i also read on nairaland that ugbo means farm in both bini and igbo.i would like to know if there might be more similarities between bini and igbo.it is also not news that a lot of igbos believe that they migrated from bini.

I think "unu" is also common to both Bini and Igbo.

Yes there are similarities, but for the same reason that there are similarities between different Celtic languages in UK, or different Germanic languages in Western Europe, or different Slavic languages, not necessarily because some Igbos migrated from Benin or Binis from Nri.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volta-Niger_languages]

Volta-Niger languages
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Volta-Niger
Geographic
distribution: West Africa, from Eastern Ghana to central Nigeria
Linguistic Classification: Niger-Congo
Atlantic-Congo
Volta-Niger
Subdivisions:
Akpes
Ayere-Ahan
Gbe
yeai
noi
? Ukaan
Nigeria Benin Cameroon languages.png
Some important branches of the Volta-Niger and Benue-Congo families are concentrated in Nigeria, Cameroon, and Benin.

The Volta-Niger family of languages, also known as West Benue-Congo or East Kwa, is one of the branches of the Niger-Congo language family, with perhaps 50 million speakers. Among these are the most important languages of southern Nigeria, Benin, Togo, and southeast Ghana: Yoruba, Igbo, Bini, Fon, and Ewe.

These languages have variously been placed within the Kwa or Benue-Congo families, but Williamson & Blench (2000) separate them from both. The boundaries between the various branches of Volta-Niger are rather vague, suggesting diversification of a dialect continuum rather than a clear split of families.

The constituent groups of the Volta-Niger family, along with the most important languages in terms of number of speakers, are as follows (with number of languages for each branch in parenthesis):
Volta-Niger



Akpes (1)




Ayere-Ahan (2)




Gbe (21: Fon [2 million], Ewe [3 million])





Yoruboid (15: Igala [1 million], Yorùbá [22 million])




Edoid (27: Edo [Bini, 1 million])




Akoko (1)




Igboid (7: Igbo [18 million])






Nupoid (12: Ebira [1 million], Nupe [1 million])




Oko (1)




Idomoid (9: Idoma [600,000])





? Ukaan (1)


The Yoruboid languages and Akoko were once linked as the Defoid branche, but more recently they, Edoid, and Igboid have been suggested to be primary branches of an as-yet unnamed group, often abbreviated yeai. Similarly, Oko, Nupoid, and Idomoid are often grouped together under the acronym noi. Ukaan is an Atlantic-Congo language, but it is unclear if it belongs to the Volta-Niger family.
[edit] References

* Wolf, Paul Polydoor de (1971) The Noun Class System of Proto-Benue-Congo (Thesis, Leiden University). The Hague/Paris: Mouton.
* Williamson, Kay (1989) 'Benue-Congo Overview', pp. 248—274 in Bendor-Samuel, John & Rhonda L. Hartell (eds.) The Niger-Congo Languages — A classification and description of Africa's largest language family. Lanham, Maryland: University Press of America.

[/quote]




There are also similarities between Yoruba and Igbo but we don't usually hear a lot of Igbos believing they originated from Ife or a lot of Yorubas believing they originated from Nri. It's just a matter of geography in this case. Benin happens to be in the center of the hypothetical "YEAI" proto-language, in-between one end (Yoruba) and another (Igbo).


[quote author=ezeagu:

Yeah, and the Bini and Igbo look similar as well, hmm . . . . . . . .

Lol @ that. How so? I remember in a thread where you were arguing with tpia, she said Binis were basically Igbos and you countered that actually they were basically Yorubas. Of course you two were both wrong. It doesn't necessarily follow that because two groups that are close together and have some similar features that there was even any mixing of them in the past (if that is what you were "hmmm"ing about)

Abagworo:

Benin city in the past was a mix of people of different ethnic background and most outward migrations were like the biblical exodus where people of a particular tribe were expelled.

Read this story on the history os Asa in Abia State.


Ancestors of Asa People

The Asa people pledged allegiance to ancestors of two distinct groups known as the Ozos and Ipus who migrated northwards from the coastal region. They were Ibo origins that broke up from the Benin Empire just like Ndokis, that migrated eastwards, then southwards to the coastline, then later moved northwards to settle in the area north of their present location.

Huh?@ the bolded. What does that even mean? There were different groups of migrants and traders in Benin, like Itsekiri traders, but Benin city certainly was never a mix or even really a melting pot.

If you understand anything about the languages in Edo state you'll realize that most of them are all dialects of the same ancestor language, and all variations on the same "linguistic theme," so to speak, so it would be inappropriate to call a distinct dialect of that theme (Bini) a mix. If it really were a mix, the language would sound VERY different, and even very different from the surrounding Edoid languages.

ChinenyeN:

I read somewhere that Nri and Edo had diplomatic relations in the past. How true is that? and what kind of relationship existed?

ezeagu:

I would think that would have been the only option, I don't think they could ignore each other, and there's no way they could have not known about each other.

^^^^

Isisdore Okpewho, in his book Once upon a kingdom: myth, hegemony, and identity basically argues that the Ikegobo "cult of the hand" or "altar of the hand" in Benin originates from the Igbo (Nri) Ikenga, the deity of strength/deity of the "right hand" based on etymology. However, in fact this cult of "success/achievements originating from the hand" is manifested in Igbo, Igala, Bini, Isoko and Urhobo with diffferent names. It's not clear whether it would have originated in Benin and then spread to Urhobo and Igbo and then to Igala, or originated in Igbo and spread to the other groups or originated from any of the other groups since there is not some sort of "oldest" Ikenga/Ikegobo sculpture that can be dated and shown to be associated with any one group much earlier than any of the others. The Ikegobo bronze sculptures in Benin date back to only about the 1700s from the ones I've seen so that doesn't really show that the concept originated in Benin, though maybe somehow finding older (wooden) sculptures associated with a specific date would show that it was from Nri as is commonly assumed.

He also states on multiple occasions that "medicine men," "ritual experts" and various other men of knowledge traveled from Nri to other parts of southern Nigeria spreading their knowledge, and at some point influenced Benin in some way though he does not say how.

He also suggests that bronze casting originated in Nri (Igbo-Ukwu), then went around Benin (somehow), over to Ife, and then from Ife to Benin, though he gives no really convincing evidence of how this could be. He just insinuates that Ife bronze casting had to have come from Igbo-Ukwu since Igbo-Ukwu bronze casting has precedence over that of Ife, though he gives no evidence of whether there was any real contact between Ife (from which Benin bronze casting apparently orginated) and Nri.

PhysicsQED:

Huh?@ the bolded. What does that even mean? There were different groups of migrants and traders in Benin, like Itsekiri traders, but Benin city certainly was never a mix or even really a melting pot.

If you understand anything about the languages in Edo state you'll realize that most of them are all dialects of the same ancestor language, and all variations on the same "linguistic theme," so to speak, so it would be inappropriate to call a distinct dialect of that theme (Bini) a mix. If it really were a mix, the language would sound VERY different, and even very different from the surrounding Edoid languages.

^^^^

Thanks.You just gave me some info.What I wrote earlier was not with surety but a mere speculation based on personal experience so I appreciate a more knowledgeable response like yours.I know Bini of course have their unique dialect different but similar to Etsako and Esan.What I suggested was a possibility of people from different ethnic stocks like Yoruba,Igbo,Nupe,Igala visiting and living in ancient Benin and being bi-lingual.

PhysicsQED:

Lol @ that. How so? I remember in a thread where you were arguing with tpia, she said Binis were basically Igbos and you countered that actually they were basically Yorubas. Of course you two were both wrong. It doesn't necessarily follow that because two groups that are close together and have some similar features that there was even any mixing of them in the past (if that is what you were "hmmm"ing about)

Sorry, are we missing something here. Are we aware of the Umu Eze Chima group that left Benin and the fact that several Igbo towns have ancestors that are from Benin. I don't believe that the Edo people were not mixed with Igbo somehow or that the city of Benin did not have immigrants yet the kingdom once stretched over both Igbo and Yoruba land and beyond. The culture is what tpia was talking about, and the Benin Empire was more aligned to the ways and culture of the Yoruba and they have a lot of cultural similarities which isn't as strong between Edo and Igbo.

Binis are more linked to the Yorubas when u look at the cultural pratices btwn the 2 groups.IMO
I have however heard the story of Eze Chima (Onicha) migrating from Bini.The Obi of Onitsha and Oba of Bini attires and regalia are almost same.

ifyalways:

Binis are more linked to the Yorubas when u look at the cultural pratices btwn the 2 groups.IMO
I have however heard the story of Eze Chima (Onicha) migrating from Bini.The Obi of Onitsha and Oba of Bini attires and regalia are almost same.

The Obi of Onicha dresses more like the Eze Nri. The one that dress like the Oba is the Eze Ogba. Umu Eze Chima also includes Agbor and Umunede, etc.


[center]Obi of Onicha
[img]http://www.nyu.edu/dental/nexus/images/fallwinter2005/nigeria3.jpg[/img][/center]

[center]Eze Ogba
[/center]

ezeagu:

The Obi of Onicha dresses more like the Eze Nri. The one that dress like the Oba is the Eze Ogba. Umu Eze Chima also includes Agbor and Umunede, etc.


[center]Obi of Onicha
[img]http://www.nyu.edu/dental/nexus/images/fallwinter2005/nigeria3.jpg[/img][/center]

[center]Eze Ogba
[/center]

Ogba's Ezeship is a very recent one.Their Kingship did not originate from Benin but they believe they migrated from Benin.

Eze Chima was not Bini. Hence, "Eze"=King, "Chima"= "God Knows". There is no Bini name that is Chima or Eze. It was proven that Eze Chima was Aro man who was a big trader in that area along the River Niger. I'm even starting question the name because I don't think Igbos were christians at his time so names like Chi-,Chukwu- were not used as such. Names like Taagbo and Dikeanyi and other strong names were used. It would have made more sense to me if his name was "Ndichima"= "The gods know". Just my thoughts.

ifyalways:

I have however heard the story of Eze Chima (Onicha) migrating from Bini.

[quote="Wikipedia"]Onitsha . . . Founded 1550 (late 16th century)[/quote]

chyz:

It was proven that Eze Chima was Aro man who was a big trader in that area along the River Niger.

[quote="Wikipedia"]Osim and Akuma Nnubi were Akpa merchant princes from the Calabar area. They led Akpa forces into the Aro territory to assist their Igbo allies to victory. However, this came at the cost of Osim losing his life at the start of the 18th century. With the Akpas and Igbos being victorious, the Arochukwu kingdom was founded with Akuma as its first king or EzeAro. After Akuma died, the Igbo took over the throne starting with Nnachi's son Oke Nnachi in 1720. (mid 18th century)[/quote]

I'm having a difficult time reconciling these numbers. According to this, Onicha is older than Aro. How could Eze Chima have been an 'Aro trader', if Aro hadn't been established until the late 17th/early 18th century? How did Arochukwu get its name anyway?

ChinenyeN:

I'm having a difficult time reconciling these numbers. According to this, Onicha is older than Aro. How could Eze Chima have been an 'Aro trader', if Aro hadn't been established until the late 17th/early 18th century? How did Arochukwu get its name anyway?

The Aro are a people,maybe a kingdom was established by the 17/18th century not sure;however, that being said Eze chima,as a Aro man migrating to the area of onicha is not far fetched. Onicha-Ado was established by Eze Chima along with other Igbos already there after he came back from Benin area.

Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onitsha-Ado

Exactly why I asked about their people's name. A people's name gives unique insight into the people's history and identity. Aside from that, according to Aro accounts "Aro traders" didn't begin their distance trading as "Aro's" until the 18th century. So, those dates still pose a reconciliation problem.

Wait, I just finished reading that Onitsha-Ado Wikipedia article, and all it did was to raise more questions (and one specific question, in particular). So the way they came to conclude that Chima was Aro was because the name "Chima" is a "popular Aro name"? Am I understanding that correctly?

My personal view is that there were Igbo groups in Bini before migrations occured.
This Igbo groups moved eastwards because their roots were in the east.
The case of Igbo groups leaving side by side with Binis is further helped from what we saw during the Bini centennary in 1997. During this period, an elder who witnessed the sack of Oba's palace narrated his account in Igbo. He was 100+ by then.

ChinenyeN:

Exactly why I asked about their people's name. A people's name gives unique insight into the people's history and identity. Aside from that, according to Aro accounts "Aro traders" didn't begin their distance trading as "Aro's" until the 18th century. So, those dates still pose a reconciliation problem.

I think true Aro son's such as EzeUche or Udezue would be able to answer your question about Aro history and name origin better. To outsiders there's been a lot of conjure about the Aro going around.

Alright. Makes sense, Chyz. Thanks though.

ChinenyeN:

Alright. Makes sense, Chyz. Thanks though.

Nsogbu odighi nwannem.

Aku- Door in both Bini and Anioma Igbo

Bini-Ozuo Anioma-Ozuai Fool/foolish

Okuikui-Owl in both Anioma and Bini

Bini-Ukoni  Anioma-Ukoni Kitchen

Akpata kitchen shelf Anioma/Bini

Ize Protection in Anioma and Bini

Idumu-Neighborhood in Anioma/Bini

More later

omonuan:

Aku- Door in both Bini and Anioma Igbo

Bini-Ozuo Anioma-Ozuai Fool/foolish

Okuikui-Owl in both Anioma and Bini

Bini-Ukoni  Anioma-Ukoni Kitchen

Akpata kitchen shelf Anioma/Bini

Ize Protection in Anioma and Bini

Idumu-Neighborhood in Anioma/Bini

More later

Which places in Anioma because they all don't speak the same Igbo?

These apply to all Anioma-Ika, Enuani & ukwuani.  Names like Obaigbena-Oba don't kill this one are common in both Bini & Anioma, Osadebe-Anioma Osadebewen-Bini means God keep this one.  Osamede-bini, Osamedua-Anioma God will make a way!; Osakwe-Anioma, Osakhue (pronounced Osakwe)-Bini; Utomi-Anioma, Utomwen-Bini= Longevity. Ukwuani-Ofito Bini-Ofito- Rabbit. Ododo-Anioma, Ododo-Bini=Red as in color.

It is imperative to mention that all Anioma dialects differ mostly in pronounciation but words are generally similar.  Intonation may also differ a bit.   Ika pronounciations are "nasal" and for Ukwuani accent is heavy but all Anioma dialects are very similar that one does not really need any interpretation in any of the dialects. If you speak one dialect, the others are intelligible. Music, Dances and diet are the same too! Ika and Enuani people relish their "akwa ocha" hand woven sparkling white cloth so much that you can't come from these places and not have a few of those.  It is a must for Ika & Enuani ceremonies. That hand woven "akwa ocha" is what the Obi of Onitsha is adoned with above on the picture. Onitsha people are also Anioma you know!

omonuan:

These apply to all Anioma-Ika, Enuani & ukwuani.  Names like Obaigbena-Oba don't kill this one are common in both Bini & Anioma, Osadebe-Anioma Osadebewen-Bini means God keep this one.  Osamede-bini, Osamedua-Anioma God will make a way!; Osakwe-Anioma, Osakhue (pronounced Osakwe)-Bini; Utomi-Anioma, Utomwen-Bini= Longevity. Ukwuani-Ofito Bini-Ofito- Rabbit. Ododo-Anioma, Ododo-Bini=Red as in color.

It is imperative to mention that all Anioma dialects differ mostly in pronounciation but words are generally similar.  Intonation may also differ a bit.   Ika pronounciation is "nasal" and for Ukwuani accent is heavy but all Anioma dialects are very similar that one does not really need any interpretation in any of the dialects. If you speak one dialect, the others are intelligible. Music, Dances and diet are the same too! Ika and Enuani people relish their "akwa ocha" hand woven sparkling white cloth so much that you can't come from these places and not have a few of these. It is a must for Ika & Enuani ceremonies.

Osadebe is also common in the Eastern Igbo region. For instance, Chief Stephen Osita Osadebe, an Igbo musical Icon from Atani, Anambra state.

About the "akwa Ocha" you are definitely right lol. They definitely love it especially the Ika.

Alot of the words you've list perse looks like words of those igbos closer to Binis, which make them more of lone words based on approximity. So more than one word may be used for one thing. Many of those words would be foreign to an Asaba, Oqwashi-uku, or Igbuzo man being that they don't border the Binis. These anioma people more than likely understand Ukwuani or Ika similar to the degree as lets say someone from Anambra or Imo depending of the location of those from Imo or Anambra.

On the "Utomi" name, I have always wondered the meaning of it and where it originated from, thanks for the heads up.

omonuan:

These apply to all Anioma-Ika, Enuani & ukwuani.  Names like Oba[b]igbena[/b]-Oba don't kill this one are common in both Bini & Anioma, Osa[b]debe[/b]-Anioma Osa[b]debewen[/b]-Bini means God keep this one.  Osamede-bini, Osamedua-Anioma God will make a way!; Osakwe-Anioma, Osakhue (pronounced Osakwe)-Bini; Utomi-Anioma, Utomwen-Bini= Longevity. Ukwuani-Ofito Bini-Ofito- Rabbit. Ododo-Anioma, Ododo-Bini=Red as in color.

Igbena - Igbuna - Don't kill

Debewe - Demewe- keep

Medua - Do and lead

I think these are Igbo words shared with Bini.

We need a Bini to confirm if it means thesame though.

Chyz1 you are wrong. I am from the enuani area close to the towns you mentioned and these are words that are common to say Issele people, Onitsha Ugbo, Idumuje, Ugbodu, Ukwunzu etc. They do not border Benin. Patrick Utomi is from Igbuzo. I know many Asaba  and Ogwashi people that go by Osamedua, Irabor, Ozabor, Edobor. The Enuani people do not need interpreter like say Anambra people for Ika and Ukwuani.  

I recently went home for a funeral where our inlaws from Agbor came and spoke in their dialect and we missed nothing. Except when they called my wife "mgba" which means wife in Ika but girlfriend in Enuani. I had forgotten this difference only to be reminded when I objected.  

When it came to prayers everyone spoke central Igbo. I have noticed that when it comes to prayer in Anioma, central Igbo is what is used-I guess God only understands central Igbo.  Even when they speak in "tongue," it is central Igbo all the way.

I have been to Abbi-Kwale for a cousin's wedding and my family needed no interpreter and Ukwuani people did not need one either. Osita Osadebe was from Atani considered by Anioma people as their kith & kin just like Onitsha.

You might have heard of "Nwa-ukoni" family in Ogwashi through Ogbogu Okonji's song of the same title. The progenitor of this family probably was born in the kitchen or close proximity thereof.

omonuan:

Chyz1 you are wrong. I am from the enuani area close to the towns you mentioned and these are words that are common to say Issele people, Onitsha Ugbo, Idumuje, Ugbodu, Ukwunzu etc. They do not border Benin. Patrick Utomi is from Igbuzo. I know many Asaba  and Ogwashi people that go by Osamedua, Irabor, Ozabor, Edobor. The Enuani people do not need interpreter like say Anambra people for Ika and Ukwuani.  

I recently went home for a funeral where our inlaws from Agbor came and spoke in their dialect and we missed nothing. Except when they called my wife "mgba" which means wife in Ika but girlfriend in Enuani. I had forgotten this difference only to be reminded when I objected.  

When it came to prayers everyone spoke central Igbo. I have noticed that when it comes to prayer in Anioma, central Igbo is what is used-I guess God only understands central Igbo.  Even when they speak in "tongue," it is central Igbo all the way.

I have been to Abbi-Kwale for a cousin's wedding and my family needed no interpreter and Ukwuani people did not need one either. Osita Osadebe was from Atani considered by Anioma people as their kith & kin just like Onitsha.

You might have heard of "Nwa-ukoni" family in Ogwashi through Ogbogu Okonji's song of the same title. The progenitor of this family probably was born in the kitchen or close proximity thereof.

I don't believe the part of  you and whoever missing nothing in another areas dialect. Hence, thats why its called a dialect. We igbos know that we can never just come out of nowhere and understand every word in another dialectical area unless we have learned some of the dialect of that area. Also, didn't you say they speak in central igbo also so why would an interpreter be needed when you went to ukwuani? Also of course you will understand each other to an extent even if central igbo isn't used however, im sure english was also used to help with understanding.Just my thoughts though.