Ronpet777:

I am not a Muslim because not only was I not born into it, I also don't buy into their doctrine. I grew old enough to decide on Wot I really wanted.

So what convinced you your religion was true?

davien:
So what convinced you your religion was true?

My spirit, soul, and body. The words written in d scriptures were manifest as I towed d path laid down. I used words from d scriptures and I saw things happen. Real things hv happened to me as I applied words from d holybook. I mean real things sir.

Modified.
How come I hv different questioners?

Ronpet777:

My spirit, soul, and body. The words written in d scriptures were manifest as I towed d path laid down. I used words from d scriptures and I saw things happen. Real things hv happened to me as I applied words from d holybook. I mean real things sir.

Could you tell me how you got wholly convinced,,and are you saying whatever might have happened to you couldn't have happened without your belief?


Could a Muslim, other denomination of Christian, Atheist, tree worshiper experience those things?

Ronpet777:

I am not a Muslim because not only was I not born into it, I also don't buy into their doctrine. I grew old enough to decide on Wot I really wanted.

Good. Now just imagine me thinking about all religions exactly the same way u think about islam.

will you take a muslim seriously if he warns u about hell and pressure u to belief i islam?

I just want u to allow empathy in and see me think about your religion exactly the same way u think about islam. dont just reply quickly, allow ur mind to be me rejecting ur religion just the same way u dont take islam seriously.

then ask urself what is God really doing about this reality.

davien:
Could you tell me how you got wholly convinced,,and are you saying whatever might have happened to you couldn't have happened without your belief?


Could a Muslim, other denomination of Christian, Atheist, tree worshiper experience those things?

No... I tot I just told u how I got wholly convinced.

Ronpet777:

No... I tot I just told u how I got wholly convinced.

No, and again i still ask this..

davien:
Could you tell me how you got wholly convinced,,and are you saying whatever might have happened to you couldn't have happened without your belief?


Could a Muslim, other denomination of Christian, Atheist, tree worshiper experience those things?

davien:
No, and again i still ask this..

Y does it sound as though I am under interrogation
I wholly got convinced because the teachings were evident for me to see and God has done things for me that naturally won't hv happened if I was not a believer. I hv experienced healing, deliverance and more in my life. So, how do I need any one else to convince me abt things I saw for myself not even to mention others' testimonies. I hv never been more sure of anything else in my life.

Ronpet777:

Y does it does it sound as though I am under interrogation
I wholly got convinced because the teachings were evident for me to see and God has done things for me that naturally won't hv happened if I was not a believer. I hv experienced healing, deliverance and more in my life. So, how do I need any one else to convince me abt things I saw for myself not even others' testimonies. I hv never been more sure of anything else in my life.

It sounds that way because you aren't talking to a believer who's bought the theology wholesale so I'm curious to what convinced you..

But back to the important bits, @the first bolded, what teachings in your belief are evident? And @ the second, what has happened to you that couldn't have happened to a believer of a different faith or other denomination of your faith and how can you tell the God you believe in willed it that way?

Lastly is being absolutely sure of your belief the same as it being true?

davien:
It sounds that way because you aren't talking to a believer who's bought the theology wholesale so I'm curious to what convinced you..

But back to the important bits, @the first bolded, what teachings in your belief are evident? And @ the second, what has happened to you that couldn't have happened to a believer of a different faith or other denomination of your faith and how can you tell the God you believe in willed it that way?

Lastly is being absolutely sure of your belief the same as it being true?

Let me say this and probably back down from d quiz. To d best of my knowledge, I answered ur questions. Told u my very personal conviction. Sir, do u knw that many things happen around d world to pple based on their beliefs? When u r not open to things, it doesn't work for u. Jesus cudnt do miracle in his home town because of disbelieve. Yet thousands of people hv met with salvation and seen d hands of d almighty in their lives because they dared to believe. I am a grown man who won't just open himself up to a pastor's mombo jombo if I hadn't seen things for myself. I am an erudite and won't swallow any rubbish hook, line and sinker. God is real if u dare to believe him and trust him.
Don't expect me to tell u I hv seen him bf and knw y he doesn't show up for all to see. If u r God and that is how u want to do things, y shld ur creations question u. and if they do, do u hv to change for ephemeral creatures? Seun doesn't like getting publicly seen does he hv to break protocol because we really wish to meet him?
Dare to trust him whole heartedly and watch him reveal himself to u personally.

Ronpet777:

Let me say this and probably back down from d quiz. To d best of my knowledge, I answered ur questions. Told u my very personal conviction. Sir, do u knw that many things abt around d world to be based on their beliefs? When u r not open to things, it doesn't work for u. Jesus cudnt do miracle in his home town because of disbelieve. Yet thousands of people hv met with salvation and seen d hands of d almighty in their lives because they dared to believe. I am a grown man who won't just open himself up to a pastor's mombo jombo if I hadn't seen things for myself. I am erudite and won't swallow any rubbish hook, line and sinker. God is real if u dare to believe him and trust him.
Don't expect me to tell u I hv seen him bf and knw y he doesn't show up for all to see. If u r God and that is how u want to do things, y shld ur creations question u. and if they do, do u hv to change for ephemeral creatures? Seun doesn't like getting publicly seen does he hv to break protocol because we really wish to meet him?
Dear to trust him whole heartedly and watch him reveal himself to u personally.

You could have just said you believe because Bible tells me so, could've saved me the sentiment.

Seun has been seen, heard, documented, interviewed, and even if you are skeptical, all lines of communication are open to you and can be cross confirmed, and even on top of that you'd just be excused for doubting a person like him is real, no hell fires, no golden gates and milk and honey to make you believe and certainly no one knocking your door to preach that you believe in seun osewa the founder of nairaland... So have fun with your absolute surety in something that lacks all these.

davien:
You could havejust said you believe because Bible tells me so, could've saved me the sentiment.

Can I also ask u a question?

Ronpet777:

Can I also ask u a question?

Go ahead

davien:
Go ahead

Just as those points u stated abt Seun is completely unknown to me in spite of numerous pple that will argue against that cos they hv personal experience with him so is the conviction that God exist to people like u.
U don't knw him because u didn't care to wholeheartedly search enough for him or cared to go thru d precepts of meeting Him.
There r many uneducated pple who don't knw nairaland talk more of Seun d founder.
Back to d matter. How much of a believer were u when u were?
D reason is dt too many pple r Christians without ever really being one. U r a Christian because of ur life style not because u were born into it, go to church or profess it. 80% of Nigerian Christians r not real Christians. They r simply religious and Jesus never preached religion.

How then do u expect Christians like those to argue with u atheists when they r not half as strong as u in their faith. People like those easily metamorphose into athiesm because they were never engrafted in their faith as I am sure u were bf u delved into disbelief.
I put it to u that a Christ-like believer will never degenerate to athiesm. And never were u such a believer.

Ronpet777:

Just as those points u stated abt Seun is completely unknown to me in spite of numerous pple that will argue against that cos they hv personal experience with him so is the conviction that God exist to people like u.
U don't knw him because u didn't care to wholeheartedly search enough for him or cared to go thru d precepts of meeting Him.
There r many uneducated pple who don't knw nairaland talk more of Seun d founder.
By to d matter. How much of a believer were u when u were?
D reason is dt too many pple r Christians without ever really being one. U r a Christian because of ur life style not because u were born into it, go to church or profess it. 80% of Nigerian Christians r not real Christians. They r simply religious and Jesus never preached religion.

Again Bible preaching aside, @the bolded, every bit of one and as sure as i could be at the time,i wanted to know more and it led me to how the Bible was compiled by basically what would be considered today as popular vote and how the ancient manuscripts were lost, found, lost again, copied by people who claimed to see the originals... And edited to the extent most allegories are edited into real occurrences...An example is "40 days and 40 nights"..it meant just a really long time, not necessarily about any number of days.
Have most churches updated their knowledge on this little fact or do they kick and scream at anything that reduces the magical wonder of their precious book??

davien:
Again Bible preaching aside, @the bolded, every bit of one and as sure as i could be at the time,i wanted to know more and it led me to how the Bible was compiled by basically what would be considered today as popular vote and how the ancient manuscripts were lost, found, lost again, copied by people who claimed to see the originals... And edited to the extent most allegories are edited into real occurrences...An example is "40 days and 40 nights"..it meant just a really long time, not necessarily about any number of days.
Have most churches updated their knowledge on this little fact or do they kick and scream at anything that reduces the magical wonder of their precious book??

Even the Christmas day is not accurately predicted but all these minor facts don't diminish d reliability of d Bible doctrine. It is an account and surely has gone tru additions and subtractions but yet d theme is not lost. U hv weak arguments bro and I am getting weary of dancing along with u. D Bible mention many things that can be verified and are proven to be true. D Bible is just a literature compilation until d spirit of God helps u to comprehend and digest it's content. Pple gave account of what they witnessed and were inspired to write. God does d overall interpretation. We don't claim d book was sent from heaven,do we??

Many pastors are Atheists but you will never know.

Ronpet777:

Even the Christmas day is not accurately predicted but all these minor facts don't diminish d reliability of d Bible doctrine. It is an account and surely has gone tru additions and subtractions but yet d theme is not lost. U hv weak arguments bro and I am getting weary of dancing along with u. D Bible mention many things that can be verified and are proven to be true. D Bible is just a literature compilation until d spirit of God helps u to comprehend and digest it's content. Pple gave account of what they witnessed and were inspired to write. God does d overall interpretation. We don't claim d book was sent from heaven,do we??

I didn't even make any arguments to begin with
I did not try convincing you of anything, instead i asked you to tell me why you believe and all i got was you basically saying you believe because you are absolutely sure...surety isn't the same as something being true.

So now let's thread on shall we? Why are the "inspirations" that people used to write the Bibles verses more believable to you than other religious books you might have encountered previously?

budaatum:

Closed, good. But deleted too? That's no good! A lot of work went into it!

Deleted? That explains why I can't find it.

Martinez19 sorry you hear

But come to think of it, believers r in a win win situation. Let's say there is no God and we all just die and return to non existence like we were bf birth, wot do we stand to lose? I go to church worship a non existing God ,go back home and live peaceably with neighbours and love them as myself.Live life with very optimistic disposition that a God always answers our prayers, then just die and return to dust.
And on the other hand, after living d life of great faith by trusting a God we never saw, believing in his words and trusting him completely only to be greatly rewarded with eternal life.
Aren't we lucky then?

So Y do some(honestly not all) atheists feel so much hatred for Christians and get irritated at d sight of any Christian or Muslim assertions?
We r obviously in a better position than u all are!!!


cc: budaatum , hopefulLandlord ,davien, frank317, Seun, segunojo866

Ronpet777:
But come to think of it, believers r in a win win situation. Let's say there is no God and we all just die and return to non existence like we were bf birth, wot do we stand to lose? I go to church worship a non existing God ,go back home and live peaceably with neighbours and love them as myself.Live life with very optimistic disposition that a God always answers our prayers, then just die and return to dust.
And on the other hand, after living d life of great faith by trusting a God we never saw, believing in his words and trusting him completely only to be greatly rewarded with eternal life.
Aren't we lucky then?

So Y do some(honestly not all) atheists feel so much hatred for Christians and get irritated at d sight of any Christian or Muslim assertions?
We r obviously in a better position than u all are!!!


cc: budaatum , hopefulLandlord ,davien, frank317, Seun, segunojo866

If this is really the case then as someone yearning for rewards just for believing something you are blindly following this belief because of its reward regardless of it being true..

And if it turns out to be true why would the god want you in its prescence since all you're after is it's reward and not genuine belief?

Matter of fact shouldn't you choose a religion with a higher Reward scheme, like say 77 virgins, ahem... Islam?

If you're this optimistic about throwing your life away based ofn a promised reward by 2000 year old beliefs I'm afraid of what you'll do when promised the same to take a life or lives when you hear a voice telling you to.

davien:
If this is really the case then as someone yearning for rewards just for believing something you are blindly following this belief because of its reward regardless if it's true..

And if it turns out to be why would the god want you in its prescence since all you're after is it's reward and not genuine belief?

Matter of fact shouldn't you choose a religion with a higher Reward scheme, like say 77 virgins, ahem... Islam?

Hahahahaha! davien... u can never be caught. U hv a way of wriggling urself out of dangerous corners.
I am sure someone like u will deny his son his heritage from u just because u knew he had his eyes on d reward while he remained a worthy son of urs.
By d way, as for the virgin that comes with Islam, I will pass.

Ronpet777:


Hahahahaha! davien... u can never be caught. U hv a way of wriggling urself out of dangerous corners.
I am sure someone like u will deny his son his heritage from u just because u knew he had his eyes on d reward while he remained he worthy son of urs.
By d way, as for the virgin that comes with Islam, I will pass.

There's a difference between heritage that's passed down under legal and/or tradition rites and believing something you don't know to be true from birth because it is among one of countless thousands that promises eternal life and/or a continued existence..

You've just shown bias in your own logic, why not choose Islam? Wouldn't your rewards be greater?

You can boast and defend one under a court of law and the other is dependent on who is also indoctrinated into the belief... You sir are indoctrinated.

Which is why i don't expect you to consent believing for no good reason

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davien:
There's a difference between heritage that's passed down under legal and or tradition rites and believing something you don't know to be true from birth because it is among one of countless thousands that promises eternal life and or a continued existence..

Well done. I have found u out. Next person please...

Ronpet777:
But come to think of it, believers r in a win win situation. Let's say there is no God and we all just die and return to non existence like we were bf birth, wot do we stand to lose? I go to church worship a non existing God ,go back home and live peaceably with neighbours and love them as myself.Live life with very optimistic disposition that a God always answers our prayers, then just die and return to dust.
And on the other hand, after living d life of great faith by trusting a God we never saw, believing in his words and trusting him completely only to be greatly rewarded with eternal life.
Aren't we lucky then?

So Y do some(honestly not all) atheists feel so much hatred for Christians and get irritated at d sight of any Christian or Muslim assertions?
We r obviously in a better position than u all are!!!


cc: budaatum , hopefulLandlord ,davien, frank317, Seun, segunojo866

Even though u deliberately chose to ignore my last post to u, i will still indulge.

U stand the same chance to be in hell as atheists. U could still be worshiping the wrong God. U dont believe in Allah, amadioha or Odin. Even as a Christian, there are different denominations? What if roman catholic, or JW, or seventh day Adventist is the real deal and u dont attend any of these churches.

The bad news is the so called God cannot just make a definite statement to everyone at one time and leave the choice to man to follow.

U follow one God and reject all others. U attend one church out of all the hundreds of denomination... do the math and tell me how u are different from atheists...

frank317:


Even though u deliberately chose to ignore my last post to u, i will still indulge.

U stand the same chance to be in hell as atheists. U could still be worshiping the wrong God. U dont believe in Allah, amadioha or Odin. Even as a Christian, there are different denominations? What if roman catholic, or JW, or seventh day Adventist is the real deal and u dont attend any of these churches.

The bad news is the so called God cannot just make a definite statement to everyone at one time and leave the choice to man to follow.

U follow one God and reject all others. U attend one church out of all the hundreds of denomination... do the math and tell me how u are different from atheists...

Nice one Frank...Well thought out.Still expecting any other view concerning this.
Didn't ignore d comment deliberately.

Ronpet777:
But come to think of it, believers r in a win win situation. Let's say there is no God and we all just die and return to non existence like we were bf birth, wot do we stand to lose? I go to church worship a non existing God ,go back home and live peaceably with neighbours and love them as myself.Live life with very optimistic disposition that a God always answers our prayers, then just die and return to dust.
And on the other hand, after living d life of great faith by trusting a God we never saw, believing in his words and trusting him completely only to be greatly rewarded with eternal life.
Aren't we lucky then?

So Y do some(honestly not all) atheists feel so much hatred for Christians and get irritated at d sight of any Christian or Muslim assertions?
We r obviously in a better position than u all are!!!


cc: budaatum , hopefulLandlord ,davien, frank317, Seun, segunojo866

pointless quote. Do you think out of the 4200+ imaginary god's in this world that Yahweh is the one true god? What if you're serving the wrong god? Imagine how you will feel praying and fasting to the wrong god all your life. Hahahahahaha

Ronpet777:

Nice one Frank...Well thought out.Still expecting any other view concerning this.
Didn't ignore d comment deliberately.

Lolz. Are you planning to change your believe system? If so please stay a Christian. Who cares

davien:

There's a difference between heritage that's passed down under legal and/or tradition rites and believing something you don't know to be true from birth because it is among one of countless thousands that promises eternal life and/or a continued existence..

You've just shown bias in your own logic, why not choose Islam? Wouldn't your rewards be greater?

You can boast and defend one under a court of law and the other is dependent on who is also indoctrinated into the belief... You sir are indoctrinated.

Which is why i don't expect you to consent believing for no good reason

exactly. Most theist are indoctrinated and lack the courage to stop believing in Yehwah or Allah.
They can't think more than the Bible or Quran because they are restricted by their gods

You are working with some misconceptions about atheists! Atheist too live peacefully with their neighbours, for instance. They must be optimistic. They put effort into living knowing there's no gods to give a boost to their efforts so they work hard. But hey! You started off with "there is no god" then live a god given eternal life afterwards? If there's no gods, there's nothing to give eternal life afterwards!

But I don't hate Muslims or Christians. I just can't stand the attitude of some of them. I've got a cousin, for instance, who tells me to pray and accept Christ into my life. When I was home, he wouldn't go to my farm with me because he was going to church though I never asked him on Sunday! But he will eat what I bring home, and now calls me begging for money! His brother too is a Christian, but not a sit on your ass pray to god sort. He hustles. So I now have a rule. Anytime the sit on your ass cousin calls me, I send something to the hustle one instead.

I am the only atheist in my family. I have a sister who is a pastor, as is her husband, and we get on very well. I have another sister who is a Blood of Jesus sort. They know I'm an atheist and respect me all the same, as do I them. Their children know too and sometimes stir, but I've told them not to ask me questions about god and the bible until after their 21st birthday because I respect their parents. Funny thing is, it was I who used to take them all to church as my parents weren't really church going people when we were young.

The worst person in my family these days is actually my mother. She would complain about those who do god excessively, and then complain about me for not doing god at all. She is also the most controversial one in her bible study group. Don't dare tell her, "it is by grace". "God ain't gonna come down from heaven and make your prayers come true", she'll tell you. Sometimes, the questions she asks, you'd think she was an atheist!

What I dislike is the sense of superiority Christians put on sometimes. "Are you saved?" they ask. I also don't like the blind fate that goes with religion and the fact that some believers want to infect one with that blind fate attitude. I also find that a certain level of naivety tends to be at play with Nigerian believers. My studies have shown that the same applied all over Europe about 500 years ago. We are that far back in time as far as our attitude to beliefs are concerned. But we are moving forward in leaps and bounds too.

I have never been a believer. And after my reading of the bible at age 12, I have been an atheist with an interest in the sociology and psychology of religion. Those who know me well know not to be preaching to me, even when I go church on Sundays. Yes I do go, though only occasionally these days. People used to tell me to try it and I did, for 10 years, but at no point did I find it catching. Also, I found that I needed an understanding of Christianity and Islam when I began engaging more with Nigerians. I had a cousin who used to take me, and I realised that with the dearth of books and no reading culture, the bible and pastors were necessary. It has evolved now though. People are reading by themselves, and asking questions too!

I just don't believe things, I guess. I'd rather know. I find that to be a better approach to life than unquestionably believing in the incredible. You can't put food in your belly or electrify a nation with fate in the incredible, I used to tell people. Then NEPA would take light!

I hope it came across that I do not hate religions per se, just that some religious peoples attitude, I find, is in fact insulting to the intellectual capability of the human being. It's probably a good thing gods don't exist therefore! If they did, they'd have to flood the entire world, or turn all humans to salt!

Ronpet777:
But come to think of it, believers r in a win win situation. Let's say there is no God and we all just die and return to non existence like we were bf birth, wot do we stand to lose? I go to church worship a non existing God ,go back home and live peaceably with neighbours and love them as myself.Live life with very optimistic disposition that a God always answers our prayers, then just die and return to dust.
And on the other hand, after living d life of great faith by trusting a God we never saw, believing in his words and trusting him completely only to be greatly rewarded with eternal life.
Aren't we lucky then?

So Y do some(honestly not all) atheists feel so much hatred for Christians and get irritated at d sight of any Christian or Muslim assertions?
We r obviously in a better position than u all are!!!


cc: budaatum , hopefulLandlord ,davien, frank317, Seun, segunojo866

segunojo866:
exactly. Most theist are indoctrinated and lack the courage to stop believing in Yehwah or Allah.
They can't think more than the Bible or Quran because they are restricted by their gods

"BELIEVE IT BEFORE YOU READ IT

IMO it is impossible for a person, who knows nothing about the Bible, to read it and say, "That makes sense, I must become a Christian!"

The only way to believe the Bible, is to believe it before you read it."- Flavel

dalaman:


"BELIEVE IT BEFORE YOU READ IT

IMO it is impossible for a person, who knows nothing about the Bible, to read it and say, "That makes sense, I must become a Christian!"

The only way to believe the Bible, is to believe it before you read it."- Flavel

That's probably why I was immune to Christianity. Started the Bible at 9 and by 12 when I finished it, I knew I was an atheist. I had read Homer's Oddyseus twice before reading the Bible, and didn't think the Greek gods were real either.

darkchild64:


look at what I'm talking about,do u think we are afraid of death or hell,save yourself the stress,any atheist that was once a Christian can not possibly be threatened by that nonsense

Guy, nothing threatens demons like Hellfire. If you guys are not afraid of Hellfire, it won't be in your mouths everyday.

Keep lying to yourselfs, but we know.