Dboy55:
So what do you know believe in ?

Gggg102:


what's the proof of your realization.

wouldn't you ask for proof of I said: above all I am a theist because I came to realize god is real and we have a little bit of his consciousness in our mind, idea, conception, imagination. god created human and different religions created different gods because they know subconsciously that god exists are trying to find god so they express their subconscious knowledge albeit inaccurately.

sinequanon:


I am glad that you agree.



We can simply wiki it...

Scientific proof
It is often said that proof is for alcohol and mathematics, as these are really the only areas where proof has any real meaning. "Proof" is something that the opponents of science are always clamouring for, yet is NOT ACTUALLY SOMETHING SCIENCE SUGGESTS it will give — specifically in the common sense definition of "proof" that suggests that a claim has been proven 100%.

Surprisingly to some, SCIENCE DOES NOT DEAL IN PROOF, in spite of the word being associated with science...

Dalamama:


Sure I'll ask for proof, but no God can be shown to exist on its own without human input. The different versions of Gods and their histories all point to the fact that they are all created by humans.

Humans started by worshipping agents of nature ( stars, moon, rivers, mountains, lightening ) as Gods before they moved to humans then invisible beings. This is very well documented in human history.

Dalamama:


What is this nonsense? I asked you to show me the scientific declaration that says unequivocal evidence isn't scientific and you are giving me someone's opinion from rationalwiki not even Wikipedia. You are not serious.

If you have no scientific declaration from scholars in serious scientific journals, then I have nothing to say to you but dismiss it as false.

sinequanon:


No need to sound like one of those uneducated ranters.

Scientific journals do not make declarations about definitions of science. That belongs to the field of philosophy. Is that all you are asking for, a statement by a philosopher?

Dalamama:


You have nothing to back up your claim. It's empty. An opinion of an unknown person on rationalwiki without any reference isn't something to be taken seriously.

Any way unequivocal evidence is very well admitted and used in science because recently a group of about 600 scientist came out and declared that unequivocal evidence shows that climate change is man made.

https://phys.org/news/2013-10-unequivocal-evidence-global-man-made.html

sinequanon:


ok, you've just shot yourself in the foot. I rest my case.

Gggg102:


nothing can be shown to exist without human question. the different versions of gods could point to a subconscious knowledge of god.

that worship of different things occurred in man could be a pointer that humans subconsciously knew that there is a supreme force.

the atheistic position is not the lack of evidence of god, it is the evidence of lack of god.

what is your evidence of lack of god.
you ask the theist to give unequivocal evidence that god exists, you also should give unequivocal evidence that god doesn't exist.

Dalamama:


What do you mean that nothing can be shown to exist without human input? What human input does it require to show that the sun exist? Can you tell me?

The worship of different Gods throughout human history shows that people are simply attracted to the God idea and people easily form the idea. That is the reason there are many different Gods throughout human history.

What is my evidence for lack of which God? There are many different Gods, so which one am I to disprove and show lack of evidence for? Is it the the various Gods of polytheism or the various version of monotheistic God?

Which version of the Gods am I to disprove when there isn't just one God idea that exist amongst humans?

Gggg102:

I already gave a version. creator of the universe.

humans do the proving. if no human talked or had an idea of what sun is, there would be no proving of sun.
if no human talked about or had an idea of what god is, there would be no proving of god.

that god exists as ideas in people's minds does not mean he doesn't exist.

Dalamama:


Creator of the universe isn't a version of God or Gods because most or even all the God/ Gods versions are said to have created the universe. Panthoen of Gods created the universe according to some accounts, a single God with different attributes created the universe in some other accounts. A version that creates is empty because all God versions created the universe according to their various tales. Which specific version out of the many God versions do you want me to disprove? Saying God that created the universe is empty since all the variius versions are all attributed with the creation of the universe.

The sun exist regardless of what any human says about it. At least any body that has eyes, is lucid and not under the influence of any thing can see it or feel it's heat.

Dalamama:


Creator of the universe isn't a version of God or Gods because most or even all the God/ Gods versions are said to have created the universe. Panthoen of Gods created the universe according to some accounts, a single God with different attributes created the universe in some other accounts. A version that creates is empty because all God versions created the universe according to their various tales. Which specific version out of the many God versions do you want me to disprove? Saying God that created the universe is empty since all the variius versions are all attributed with the creation of the universe.

Gggg102:


creation of the universe is the foundation of god. if you can destroy the foundation no building can stand again. if you prove that there is no creator of the universe, you have proven that no concept of god can exist.

if you only disprove specific gods, you only prove that that building is not sound. it does nothing to the foundation. another building can be built on the foundation. the fact that the foundation remains show that there is a building that is right for the foundation. all the gods you disprove are just wrong buildings. the right building exists even if we are not aware of it.

destroy the foundation and nothing else can stand.

beatmonster:

who created god (the foundation)?

Gggg102:


the general opinion is that god is eternal. that is beside the point btw.

the question is: what is the atheist proof that there is no god?
is your assertion that there is no god unsubstantiated?

beatmonster:


General opinion does make a statement true.

For example: "it used to be a general opinion that the earth was flat and center of the solar system". But now, we know better. I hope you get my point.

Another question: "If God can be eternal, will can't the universe be eternal"?

The burden of proof of God doesn't lie with atheists, it lies with theists.

let's do a quick experiment

If I approach you know and tell you Nikato exists (Nikato is a super planet that powers the rotational movements of all planets in the galaxy) what will be your reaction?

Gggg102:


creator of the universe is the deist version of god. it is also a general characteristics of theist god. most agree that god created the universe. if you can prove such god does not exist, then you have successfully validated your atheism, if you can't, your assertion that there is no god is empty.

what you are trying to do is disprove gods one after the other. even if you do this successfully, it is not proof that a god doesn't exist at all. it is only proof that those specific gods don't exist. a god could still exist regardless. disproving all known gods would only mean all those gods are fake. it would not mean god doesn't exist.


we wouldn't know if the sun existed if it did not exist in human minds. if humans had no idea of the sun, we would not know it exists. that something exists in ideas does not equate not existing in reality. something can exist in ideas and in reality.

Dalamama:


Creator of the universe is almost every version of God. Allah is the creator of the universe according to the Islamic version of God.

The sun exist independent of human beings. I can even ppint to it. A chimpanzee cam identify it I believe, even a dog as well I believe.

Give me example of something that exist in ideas and in reality as well apart from God.

Gggg102:


creation of the universe is the foundation of god. if you can destroy the foundation no building can stand again. if you prove that there is no creator of the universe, you have proven that no concept of god can exist.

if you only disprove specific gods, you only prove that that building is not sound. it does nothing to the foundation. another building can be built on the foundation. the fact that the foundation remains show that there is a building that is right for the foundation. all the gods you disprove are just wrong buildings. the right building exists even if we are not aware of it.

destroy the foundation and nothing else can stand.

Gggg102:


that's beside the point. definition of creator of the implies that he is eternal. if he isn't, there would be no point in claiming there is a god. it is necessary that god is eternal.

the universe is not eternal. it had a beginning.


if I don't know anything about Nikato, I would ask you to prove it.


if I know as a fact that Nikato does not exist, I will prove to you that Nikato doesn't exist to save you from your ignorance.

the burden of proof lies on you if my position is that I do not believe you.

the burden of proof lies on both sides of my position is that you are lying. if my position is that I believe(know) that you are false, I have a burden of proof also.

atheists have a burden of proof once they assert that god doesn't exist.

Dalamama:


Creation of the universe is an assumption on your part. You've not shown that the universe was created in anyway. You are only assuming that it was created. Until you provide evidence to show that the universe was created, everything you say remains an assumption. As for God or Gods there are various versions.

Gggg102:


since creator of the universe applies to every version of god, proving that there is no creator of the universe will prove that there is no god.
proving every single known god does not exist doesn't not prove that creator of the universe does not exist.

you could prove all known gods do not exist, but it could still be the case that god exists even if he is unknown but once you prove that there is no creator of the universe, it would be proven that there is no god either known or unknown.

the sun has to be in your mind for you to point to it. the sun exists independent of you but if you have no idea of sun, you would not be able to point to it. the same can be said about god. he exists independent of human experience and also exists in the mind of humans.

for man to be conscious of something, it has to exist in his mind.

everything that exists in reality that we know of exists in our ideas.
you cannot know something exists if it does not exist in your mind.

Atoms are even analogous to god.

atoms exist reality.
we had the idea that atoms exist.
we tried to find these atoms.
we made errors on the way (inaccurate models)
that our models of atoms were wrong did not mean atoms did not exist.
we haven't seen an atom but we have models that may or may not be correct.
regardless of this, we are sure that atoms exist.


god exists reality.
we had the idea that god exists.
we tried to find god.
we made errors on the way (inaccurate models of god).
that our models of god was wrong did not mean god did not exist.
we haven't seen god but we have models that may or may not be correct.
regardless of this, we are sure that god exists.

Gggg102:


I agree. creation of universe is an assumption.
you also assume that the universe was not created. you too have not shown that the universe wasn't created. until you show that the universe wasn't created, everything you say remains an assumption.

both our positions are just assumptions until one of us provide proof.

there are various versions of god but they all have the same underlying principle; the creation of the universe. if you can prove that the universe was not created and therefore needed no creator, you have effectively proved god does not exist.

Gggg102:


creator of the universe is the deist version of god. it is also a general characteristics of theist god. most agree that god created the universe. if you can prove such god does not exist, then you have successfully validated your atheism, if you can't, your assertion that there is no god is empty.

what you are trying to do is disprove gods one after the other. even if you do this successfully, it is not proof that a god doesn't exist at all. it is only proof that those specific gods don't exist. a god could still exist regardless. disproving all known gods would only mean all those gods are fake. it would not mean god doesn't exist.


we wouldn't know if the sun existed if it did not exist in human minds. if humans had no idea of the sun, we would not know it exists. that something exists in ideas does not equate not existing in reality. something can exist in ideas and in reality.

beatmonster:


I don't know anything about the existence of God, prove it to me

Gggg102:


that's beside the point. definition of creator of the implies that he is eternal. if he isn't, there would be no point in claiming there is a god. it is necessary that god is eternal.

the universe is not eternal. it had a beginning.


if I don't know anything about Nikato, I would ask you to prove it.
if I know as a fact that Nikato does not exist, I will prove to you that Nikato doesn't exist to save you from your ignorance.

the burden of proof lies on you if my position is that I do not believe you.

the burden of proof lies on both sides of my position is that you are lying. if my position is that I believe(know) that you are false, I have a burden of proof also.

atheists have a burden of proof once they assert that god doesn't exist.

frank317:


@ bold... does not disproving any God at all proves that they all exist? is there a possibility that all the individual gods people worship exist?

meanwhile, please prove that a green elephant is not the creator(except you believe a green elephant created the world)

frank317:


there is the answer to ur question.
atheist dont know anything about any God or gods and when we ask theists to prove it that their God exists, they only say we should prove he does not...

Dalamama:


I have made no claim with regards to the existence of the universe in anyway. The creation of the universe is an assumption since nobody has ever shown that the universe was created. God creating the universe is an idea based on the assumption that the universe was created. These are all empty assumptions that have no evidence has been provided to support them. How can I prove that the universe was not created when the creation of the universe is only but an assumption on the part of those that float the hypothesis?