tosyne2much:
What I see here is that nobody knows how the earth was created.. We just found ourselves on this earth and that's the way it will continue to be
Even the writers of the Bible are ignorant of the creation of the earth.. All they could talk about is the water, moon, star darkness and day

even the natural world teaches us that nothing can come into existence without an effort.
the first cause of the material world is God.

TATIME:
You need to fully understand the meaning of the title "GOD". It's someone or something in who's absence makes intelligent creatures with independent thoughts to obey certain instructions. Ants,fishes,birds and other creatures of the same kind do things in common because they have the same goal which is eating ,mating and sleeping.That's why they prey on one another in the jungle without someone giving them RULES. But intelligent creatures like humans can't think alike because we have different opinions,goals and views, so your expectation of something to motivate our thoughts towards the same end is tantamount to the demand for a powerful,higher intelligent being or unseen supernatural force "GOD"! That's why i said the evidence is all around you but you only need someone to help you grasp and see it. Unless you think that there shouldn't be anything like peace and security, then i'll take it up from another point of view. As long as you are saying intelligent creatures like you with divers reasoning can become a law within themselves my friend you're definitely an excellent example of an advocate of "GOD". Romans 2:14,15

Humans are different from other animals because of d more development of our brains, we being smarter and far more intelligent Dan other creatures doesn't prove that there is a higher power of any kind, infact its the smarter ones of d human species who think a god is not necessary and doesn't exist.

solite3:
even the natural world teaches us that nothing can come into existence without an effort.
the first cause of the material world is God.

what's your proof?

TATIME:
Not imposing but coming to terms on what's right or wrong! Before religion was introduced, there was hatred, crime, oppression and prejudice, so it's not religion that gave birth to those things they're already existing before the introduction of religion!

ok so why haven't hatred, crime, oppression, prejudice etc been suppressed by the religion?, from wat I can deduce its getting much worse..

TATIME:
Not imposing but coming to terms on what's right or wrong! Before religion was introduced, there was hatred, crime, oppression and prejudice, so it's not religion that gave birth to those things they're already existing before the introduction of religion!

So religion should not be adding to the "hatred, crime, oppression and prejudice", Jesus people especially! Or are they not supposed to be blessed peacemakers anymore?

killsmith:
ignorance and lack of comprehension of what?

Of whatever it is they actually claim to know.

budaatum:

So religion should not be adding to the "hatred, crime, oppression and prejudice", Jesus people especially! Or are they not supposed to be blessed peacemakers anymore?

You yourself are promoting prejudice! I told you those you knew before causing or doing those things aren't Christians,but you just want to keep blaming the innocent! Religion has it's own God and Christianity has it's own God, but because all are claiming Christians you don't want to know anything more. Last time my cousin traveled to South America, all other passengers in the plane were searched with a simple device that was used to rob their body but with the Nigerian passport my cousin was kept behind for a THOROUGH searching. He was asked to remove all his clothes because he is from Nigeria That's exactly what you're doing to all who believes in God because of what some have done in the past.

solite3:
even the natural world teaches us that nothing can come into existence without an effort.
the first cause of the material world is God.

What caused God?

budaatum:

Of whatever it is they actually claim to know.

The only thing atheists knew is what misinformed religious churchgoers taught and did that's all but as regards REAL Christianity i can bet it that all your folks including all the professors in that faculty(atheism) are NOVICE!

TATIME:
You yourself are promoting prejudice! I told you those you knew before causing or doing those things aren't Christians,but you just want to keep blaming the innocent! Religion has it's own God and Christianity has it's own God, but because all are claiming Christians you don't want to know anything more. Last time my cousin traveled to South America, all other passengers in the plane were searched with a simple device that was used to rob their body but with the Nigerian passport my cousin was kept behind for a THOROUGH searching. He was asked to remove all his clothes because he is from Nigeria That's exactly what you're doing to all who believes in God because of what some have done in the past.

They were not searching him because of Jesus! And that's beside the point. If anything we should fight for such things to stop, and not just hope it does not happen to us, selflessness is after all a fundamental teaching of Christ. If he'd behaved the way you're suggesting, Christ would have said, "cross? Fuq that! And let everyone go and die for their own sins. He would hardly have had the credibility to say "Take Up Your Cross and Follow Me"!

budaatum:

They were not searching him because of Jesus! And that's beside the point. If anything we should fight for such things to stop, and not just hope it does not happen to us, selflessness is after all a fundamental teaching of Christ. If he'd behaved the way you're suggesting, Christ would have said, "cross? Fuq that! And let everyone go and die for their own sins. He would hardly have had the credibility to say "Take Up Your Cross and Follow Me"!

You need to calm down my friend, it's just a contest between two intelligent creatures who are debating on who has the higher power of reasoning,not a tug of war. So relax and let me hear something much more reasonable from you than accusing me based on what someone else said in my behalf yet not ready to listen to my side of the story but furiously judging me without allowing me to defend myself. You're packing true Christians along with misrepresentation, and i'm trying to explain or differentiate between misinformed churchgoers and true Christians but you keep hammering on the things false religions said and taught. That's exactly why i said atheists are novice because you're all dwelling on what misinformed religious churchgoers taught you. For example an atheist asked me about Omnipotent, Omniscience,Omnipresence. And after proving from the Bible that God never present HIMSELF like that he was dumbfounded.

TATIME:
You need to calm down my friend, it's just a contest between two intelligent creatures who are debating on who has the higher power of reasoning,not a tug of war. So relax and let me hear something much more reasonable from you than accusing me based on what someone else said in my behalf yet not ready to listen to my side of the story but furiously judging me without allowing me to defend myself. You're packing true Christians along with misrepresentation, and i'm trying to explain or differentiate between misinformed churchgoers and true Christians but you keep hammering on the things false religions said and taught. That's exactly why i said atheists are novice because you're all dwelling on what misinformed religious churchgoers taught you. For example an atheist asked me about Omnipotent, Omniscience,Omnipresence. And after proving from the Bible that God never present HIMSELF like that he was dumbfounded.

You keep telling me to calm down, meanwhile, I'm clearly asking you about what you specifically said about extermination. I'm sure I stated how I feel about such outlooks and "calm" is definitely not one of them, I am very intolerant off exterminators regardless of what god they hide behind.

Please, if I misunderstand you, stop saying atheism make me stupid like its some operation that removes the brain and be responsible and enlighten me, if you don't mind.

It is most definitely not "just a contest between two intelligent creatures who are debating on who has the higher power of reasoning" but, "against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms", the ways we think and reason and believe that ends up creating the fears that make us want to get rid of the others, on earth or in heaven! It is my most strongest opinion that anyone who reasons this way strays into "thanks I'm not like that other over there", and is not, and should not, be justified.

LordReed:


What caused God?

Just imagine someone asking this question,and such a person will classify himself as intelligent. Instead of trying to know first why there are intelligent creatures like myself everywhere having different thoughts,feelings and plans. Yet we're trying to coexist in peace and security unlike animals who are also creatures with brains but are killing one another for food, mating and sleeping with no other motives. Why must we continue to improve in our living conditions and activities? Why must we have rules binding on all intelligent creatures? Why do we often feel something is barbaric when there's no natural rules as to how things ought to be done? Why must we have few people in position of authorities? And Why must we all remain obedient to such authorities even in their absence? The simple answer to all these questions is "God"! Because HE created US with the idea to ask for directions on how things ought to be done! Genesis 1:26

TATIME:
Just imagine someone asking this question,and such a person will classify himself as intelligent. Instead of trying to know first why there are intelligent creatures like myself everywhere having different thoughts,feelings and plans. Yet we're trying to coexist in peace and security unlike animals who are also creatures with brains but are killing one another for food, mating and sleeping with no other motives. Why must we continue to improve in our living conditions and activities? Why must we have rules binding on all intelligent creatures? Why do we often feel something is barbaric when there's no natural rules as to how things ought to be done? Why must we have few people in position of authorities? And Why must we all remain obedient to such authorities even in their absence? The simple answer to all these questions is "God"! Because HE created US with the idea to ask for directions on how things ought to be done! Genesis 1:26

You just rambled about anything but the answer to my question, What caused God?

budaatum:

"against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms"

Please what do you think about this statement?Are you saying there are unseen supernatural forces?Or you're just saying it because you've heard it sometimes somewhere?

LordReed:


You just rambled about anything but the answer to my question, What caused God?

You first need to know What or Who is God? Before asking What caused God? You shouldn't be asking what caused something unexplainable! Well let me enlighten you a bit. Have you ever seen two intelligent creatures of different gender following themselves like lovebirds even after beating each other brutally and mercilessly they still grab each other like never before just for passion and mating? That's because they're both worshippers of the same god(sexual appetite) and there is nothing anyone can say or do to stop them from worshipping their god,they're ready to do away with anything for their god. The same way you'll hear of some killing innocent people and rejoicing over the shed of innocent blood,because their god is (blood thirsty) even whoever decides to have a change of heart amongst them will be sacrificed to appease their blood thirsty god. So when you're saying intelligent creatures like you should think or do something in common with dedication, an English dictionary refers to such as "religiously" meaning there is an unseen superior force gravitating such unity "GOD"!

TATIME:
Please what do you think about this statement?Are you saying there are unseen supernatural forces?Or you're just saying it because you've heard it sometimes somewhere?

I'm saying it because you don't seem to recognise the higher implications of what you say. It is simple thought "exterminate those others" that became the supernatural forces that were unleashed in WW2!

budaatum:

I'm saying it because you don't seem to recognise the higher implications of what you say. It is simple thought "exterminate those others" that became the supernatural forces that were unleashed in WW2!

Hmmmmmmmmmm you're saying something that's exciting now! So you agree that some supernatural forces can be responsible for extermination of life on earth?

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm you're saying something that's exciting now! So you agree that some supernatural forces can be responsible for extermination of life on earth?

I am saying that if individuals on Nairaland say their god would exterminate those who don't believe it, they can unleash the sort of hatred that led to WW2.

The "supernatural forces" are not responsible for the extermination. The individuals who have such hateful thoughts are!

budaatum:

I am saying that if individuals on Nairaland say their god would exterminate those who don't believe it, they can unleash the sort of hatred that led to WW2.

The "supernatural forces" are not responsible for the extermination. The individuals who have such hateful thoughts are!

That's where you missed it! There is clear distinction between what you're hoping for and what the one who has the power to do it decides. JWs are looking forward to the time when the earth will become a Paradise,Jehovah who has the power to do bring about the change said "it can't be possible as long as there are disobedient ones living on earth",to make us work as a sign of love for these so called disobedient ones He commanded us to keep going to preach (beg) them to change and teach (inform) them about HIS plans. Whoever is anticipating death or extermination for other souls can't be a witness of Jehovah because you must go to them begging them not rejoicing in your heart. Jehovah does not want them dead but there is nothing else HE can do if they insist on their former way of doing things. HE must exterminate them for peace to reign but before then HE will have given them all the chances in the world. Matthew 24:14 says our preaching is to serve as a witness onto all the nations, so no one will say "i never saw the peacemakers coming to knock on my door both in rainy and dry season"

budaatum:

I am saying that if individuals on Nairaland say their god would exterminate those who don't believe it, they can unleash the sort of hatred that led to WW2.

The "supernatural forces" are not responsible for the extermination. The individuals who have such hateful thoughts are!

So we're not putting fear in people's minds in other to come and worship with US, but like Jonah we must tell them what Jehovah has decided upon this crooked generation. We preach to them (beg them to be patient with Jehovah) because this is not how HE planned the earth to be. And teach them (explain to them what are HIS plans and how to get the visa for beneficiaries). Many people like it like this because they have all the money and power wanted so they can satisfy all their desires as in eyes(traveling to anywhere in the world to see so much and buy whatever they want) desires of the flesh(practicing all that the flesh could have like having sex with whoever they point) showy display (boasting with their achievements) 1John 2:15-17 So if we're trying to tell them God is not pleased with this system, they become inflamed with rage!

TATIME:
That's where you missed it! There is clear distinction between what you're hoping for and what the one who has the power to do it decides. JWs are looking forward to the time when the earth will become a Paradise,Jehovah who has the power to do bring about the change said "it can't be possible as long as there are disobedient ones living on earth",to make us work as a sign of love for these so called disobedient ones He commanded us to keep going to preach (beg) them to change and teach (inform) them about HIS plans. Whoever is anticipating death or extermination for other souls can't be a witness of Jehovah because you must go to them begging them not rejoicing in your heart. Jehovah does not want them dead but there is nothing else HE can do if they insist on their former way of doing things. HE must exterminate them for peace to reign but before then HE will have given them all the chances in the world. Matthew 24:14 says our preaching is to serve as a witness onto all the nations, so no one will say "i never saw the peacemakers coming to knock on my door both in rainy and dry season"

I guess you've discovered why Jehovah is not my God. I see people all around me suffering, and going to tell them to believe in some after life just doesn't cut it for me. Besides, "let your light shine" sounds more like "get off your ass and help people" and not just "preach the good news to them".

It is as John discovered, "the lame walk, the blind see" and only unto some is the gospel revealed. Those with greater understanding give back a lot more.

TATIME:
So if we're trying to tell them God is not pleased with this system, they become inflamed with rage!

How can God not be pleased with me going to earn a living and enjoying the fruits of my labour? You can't tell me JWs don't go to work to earn a living! Do they just not enjoy it?

Any God who says that better not be asking me to donate anything! And he better Paradise come so I can have all I need without having to sow. Till then, sow we must, pleased with the system or not.

budaatum:

I guess you've discovered why Jehovah is not my God. I see people all around me suffering, and going to tell them to believe in some after life just doesn't cut it for me. Besides, "let your light shine" sounds more like "get off your ass and help people" and not just "preach the good news to them".

It is as John discovered, "the lame walk, the blind see" and only unto some is the gospel revealed. Those with greater understanding give back a lot more.

Hmmmmmmmmmm well you're welcome my friend, that's what the first century Christians tried to do, they were trying to eradicate poverty amongst believers because there are those who are rich and those who are poor both to the extreme. So they decided selling properties and bringing the money to share equally amongst themselves. So if a Christian sold a property worth 20M and another sold a property worth 2k everything is shared for the sake of equalizing. But they forgot that Jesus said there will always be poor ones in their midst. Well they learnt their lesson in a bitter way when a Christian couple died for the arrangement and they stopped that program immediately. Until God's Kingdom comes suffering will continue to be here on earth because HE is not the one ruling!

budaatum:

How can God not be pleased with me going to earn a living and enjoying the fruits of my labour? You can't tell me JWs don't go to work to earn a living! Do they just not enjoy it?

Any God who says that better not be asking me to donate anything! And he better Paradise come so I can have all I need without having to sow. Till then, sow we must, pleased with the system or not.

You're just not getting it my friend. Are you pleased seeing people suffering? You yourself answered NO! So Jehovah also is not pleased with the situation! HE is not saying you shouldn't enjoy the fruit of your labour but that you should know that everyone supposed to enjoy life as in no human supposed to be your gateman, gardener, cook or driver. Everyone supposed to be on their own NO oppression NO superiority. That's what gets some people inflamed with rage as they wish to have someone's daughter as a mistress because she's from a poor home, or someone's son as a sugarboyfriend because he's less privileged. They just want things to continue like that.

LordReed:

What caused God?

God is the uncaused Creator.

TATIME:
Hmmmmmmmmmm well you're welcome my friend, that's what the first century Christians tried to do, they were trying to eradicate poverty amongst believers because there are those who are rich and those who are poor both to the extreme. So they decided selling properties and bringing the money to share equally amongst themselves. So if a Christian sold a property worth 20M and another sold a property worth 2k everything is shared for the sake of equalizing. But they forgot that Jesus said there will always be poor ones in their midst. Well they learnt their lesson in a bitter way when a Christian couple died for the arrangement and they stopped that program immediately. Until God's Kingdom comes suffering will continue to be here on earth because HE is not the one ruling!

And yet, some refused to stop. They decided that the poor can be less poor, especially if we as rich individuals be less greedy, and besides, perhaps its the way "those first century Christian" tried to do it that's wrong.

This is the foundations of universal health services in some nations that have them and social benefits for the complete havenots. They say, no matter how poor you are we shall not just leave your poor ass on the street to die.

The poor may always be there but the haves (as well as in spirit), must continue to give from the abundance of their hearts to relieve that poverty and not just say, "there'll always be poor, serve them right"!

TATIME:
You're just not getting it my friend. Are you pleased seeing people suffering? You yourself answered NO! So Jehovah also is not pleased with the situation! HE is not saying you shouldn't enjoy the fruit of your labour but that you should know that everyone supposed to enjoy life as in no human supposed to be your gateman, gardener, cook or driver. Everyone supposed to be on their own NO oppression NO superiority. That's what gets some people inflamed with rage as they wish to have someone's daughter as a mistress because she's from a poor home, or someone's son as a sugarboyfriend because he's less privileged. They just want things to continue like that.

Things will continue like that, especially if all some people are doing is go about preaching to people that all they have to do is "accept Jesus into their life" and "your reward is in heaven" .

For your information, we, the todays poor sufferers, are not all sitting there waiting for manna from heaven and accepting our lot. We know that if we do not sow, we shall not reap so we're out there sowing seeds of paradise so it would grow on earth. We may be "gateman, gardener, cook or driver" today, but we or our offspring can be doctors, lawyers and accountants tomorrow, with our own "gateman, gardener, cook or driver" whom by hiring we empower to become what we have become and even much more.

budaatum:

And yet, some refused to stop. They decided that the poor can be less poor, especially if we as rich individuals be less greedy, and besides, perhaps its the way "those first century Christian" tried to do it that's wrong.

This is the foundations of universal health services in some nations that have them and social benefits for the complete havenots. They say, no matter how poor you are we shall not just leave your poor ass on the street to die.

The poor may always be there but the haves (as well as in spirit), must continue to give from the abundance of their hearts to relieve that poverty and not just say, "there'll always be poor, serve them right"!

That's exactly what Jesus taught but His followers decided to EQUATE things on their own. And God's word clearly says there can't be equalizing now until God's Kingdom comes!

TATIME:
That's exactly what Jesus taught but His followers decided to EQUATE things on their own. And God's word clearly says there can't be equalizing now until God's Kingdom comes!

But meanwhile, we must continue to try to equalise, surely? Or at least don't oppress anyone by adding to the poverty!

TATIME:
And God's word clearly says there can't be equalizing now until God's Kingdom comes!

Any God that says "there can't be equalizing now until God's Kingdom comes" is to start with, a bad creator and should have created better more capable human beings. Such a God has absolutely no faith in the human races' ability to improve and behave less like animals. And that God is rather incompetent since just about all it appeared to be doing is reduce the sufferings of the human race but which you now tell me it never intended to happen. Add liar, to the list too since it deceived many into thinking their life on earth could be less bleak.

You are making me think that I will not "surely die" , since God must have lied then too!

Emusan:


God is the uncaused Creator.

LoL, you have resurfaced? You didn't answer my response to you but want to answer this one. I guess you actually believe in multiple gods then. LMFAO!

If you say God is uncaused then a similar argument can be made for the universe, the universe is uncaused. It is better cos we do not see the influences of any gods in this universe.