adescopy:
Mathew 24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Now read the further
Dear op, I will like you to look at the questions ask and the answer given. That answer given by Jesus on that particular question is what will happen when the world will come to an end it has nothing to do with rapture of saint.

Those that will remain after the rapture will face the great tribulation during the 1000 years reign of Christ, after then Christ will now appear after those years to take away the earthly saint that refuses the mark of the beast and are still alive or dead

If you had read Mathew 24 further, you would have seen that Jesus said the tribulation will come first before he raptures his saints.

linearity:


My Dear Friend,

I did not say that, the Second Coming of Christ is two events. You can go back and carefully read my prior post. What I stated is that, the Rapture is a distinct and separate even from the Second Coming of Christ, with each taking place on either side of the timeline of the Great tribulation.

And these two events have strong scriptural backing from Zechariah, Isaiah the prophet to Revelation, you just have to be deliberate when you read them to pick up the differences...

The passage you cited above in Mathew talks about the Second Coming of Christ, it said the Lord will be coming and all tribe shall see him and mourn, and his angels shall go to all ends of the earth to gather his elects. Zechariah 14:4 said his feet shall touch Mount Olive during this time, and it is clear that, the gathering refer to in Mathew is towards Mount Olive, where the feet of Christ will touch upon. And it is logical to reason that, it was the second coming and Zechariah's professes that, was in the mind of the disciples, when they came to ask him to tell them the signs of the end of time, because Jesus was on mount Olive, when the disciple approached him with this question and he explained it them, right there on mount Olive. Revelation chapters 6-19 also talk about the second coming of Christ.

However, the passage you quoted in Thessalonian talks about the Rapture, you see how it stated that, the dead saints shall rise, no dead saint shall rise during the second coming, if you read Revelation, question was asked about the dead saints who died during the tribulation and the response is, that will wait...Also see that, Thessalonian say, the Lord shall be in the Air, he did not descend into mount Olive and the saints will be caught up to meet him in the Air and see how Thessalonian did not mention any war, no darkening of moon, sun, no mourning, no crying, etc as indicated in Mathew.

There are more differences with scripture references:
At the Rapture, believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the Air (1 Thess 4:17), but at the Second Coming, believers will return with the Lord to the earth (Rev 19:14).

The Rapture is imminent, it could take place any moment , instant and no man, only God in heaven knows when it will happen (1 Cor 15:50-54, Math 24:44, Tit 2:13; 1 Thess 4:13-18); However, the Second Coming will not occur until other end-time events have happened and it will occur after the tribulation has lasted seven (7) years(Rev 1:7, Matt 24:29-30).

Rev 3:10-11; says Christ shall protect believers from the tribulation that shall come upon all the world and He will do this through the Rapture by taking them out of the scene.

The Rapture is a time of reward and blessings to believers, while the second coming is a time of judgement and for the anti-christ and unbelievers who joined him. Jesus and the saints will not be involved in any conflict, no war, etc during the rapture...there will be war during the second coming.

During the rapture, He will come like a thief in the night, if you read mathew again; all eyes will see him, the moon, sun, etc will be darken...that is not exactly like a thief...so that is a separate event than the rapture being described in mathew verses you cited.

To come to my position, read every account of the endtime events talking about Christ's coming as documented in Zechariah, Isaiah, Cor. Thess. & Revelation and study them side-by-side, you will conclude that, all these passages are not talking about one return event. You can even draw up a triage table of the differences and you will conclude that, two distinct events are being described.

The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are the same event, not separate. The below passage shatters all you have been saying since. It shows that the rapture and the second coming of Jesus will not happen until the Antichrist is revealed who will persecuted Christians.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

alBHAGDADI:


If you had read Mathew 24 further, you would have seen that Jesus said the tribulation will come first before he raptures his saints.

Big thumbs up Op. I was moved to write about this here also, you did great justice to this important issue in believers' beliefs. Do you listen to Pastor Stephen Anderson of First Baptist USA?

alBHAGDADI:


If you had read Mathew 24 further, you would have seen that Jesus said the tribulation will come first before he raptures his saints.

Big thumbs up Op. I was moved to write about this here also, you did great justice to this important issue in believers' beliefs. Do you listen to Pastor Stephen Anderson of First Baptist USA? I'll recommend everyone watch 'After the tribulation' on YouTube.

There is no need for arguments, there are two separate events that could be referred to as the great tribulation in the Book Of Revelation, one is greater and more severe than the other.

The first one is recorded in Revelation 5:1-8:1, and it is regulated by the opening of the seven seals. It is for the trial of the saints.
Revelation 7:13-14 KJV
And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? [14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The second is record in Revelation 8:2-10:4, it is regulated by the blowing of the trumpets. It is the recompense of trouble to the wicked.
Revelation 9:20-21 KJV
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

2 Thessalonians 1:6 KJV
Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

Please do all you can now to endure the trial of the saint and avoid the judgment of the wicked
James 1:12 KJV
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Hebrews 10:31 KJV
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

May God bless and uphold you till the end in Jesus Christ Name.

OyinO:
Deceiving and being deceived. There is NOTHING like Rapture or Hell fire. Unto dust were you formed, and unto dust ye shall return, NOT HELL. Rapture and similar stories are mere allegories used to mean and symbolise something different.

If I will return unto dust and not have an eternal fate. then what's the point seeking to overcome sin? Please stop deceiving people with this unbiblical doctrine.

quentin06:
this rant has been going pn for centurie, when i see so called pastors building mansions, 1 million seater church auditoriums on earth, acquiring and worshippung money i know its all a scam, xtianity evolved from pagan worship.

rapture is a scam.

Don't condemn what you haven't experienced.

OyinO:

If you don't have a religion, you don't have hell. Hell came from christianity and islam.

Lol this your logic is funny. Believing in God's existence and subsequently accepting His promise in His son, Jesus Christ isn't what subjects one to an eternal fate. Your very existence as a homo sapiens does, and choosing to BELIEVE will ultimately lead you to the right part of the two fates available.

No the great tribulation will happen after the rapture of the bridal church. It is those who doesn't make it that will undergo the receive Mark of the beast (Cain/666) or die tribulation. You will not be able to tell the difference between the Christian Church vs state anymore.

alBHAGDADI:


Why are you people so comfortable with false doctrine that you reject the Bible because of?

The below passage shatters every man-made doctrine which you wrote up there.

[Mathew 24:29-31
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


According to you, Jesus will return twice. No Bible verse says such. The above passage shows him speaking of his return. Can you see where he said it is during his return he will gather his believers? During the period of his appearance when he will gather Christians, the whole world will see him. This is no secret event and it doesn't happen twice but once.

Now go up and read the Bible passage above and compare it with what I typed and yours as well to see which of them it fits.

Now you quoted 1 Thessalonians 5:9 to say we will not experience God's wrath. Yes we will not experience God's wrath. But who told you that the tribulation is God's wrath? The tribulation is Satan's wrath on Christians. He has been unleashing it from time; the great tribulation will it be a total climax of his anger. That's why it is stated that he will wage war on the saints. The tribulation is the persecution of Christians.

Now, what is God's wrath which we will not face? It is God's anger on the wicked and the Antichrist. Same way He poured it o. the people of Noah as soon Noah shut the door of the ark is the same way He will pour his wrath on the wicked as soon as we are raptured immediately after the tribulation. Same way He poured out His wrath on the wicked people of Sodom a d Gomorrah as soon as Lot was carried away by angels is the same way He will pour His wrath on the wicked as soon as Christians have been carried away by angels when Jesus shows up to redeem them from the sufferings of the rapture. We are not appointed to God's wrath, but Satan will persecute many.

Please learn to know the difference between God's wrath and great tribulation. Through out the Bible, God's wrath has always been on the wicked, while tribulation has always been suffered by God's children.

You seem to have this mindset that the bible must state everything explicitly before its existence or genuineness can be proven. This is a carnal mindset and it gives no room for an effective reception of the holy spirit's teachings.

Eres94:


how on earth then do you have body parts assembled together, working together and functioning properly ?
O! maybe when u were an micro organism you thought to yourself I need an ear, a butt, etc..you were born tabula Lhasa go fill it with the right knowledge and stop deceiving & provoking others with your ignorance

I was born by my father who was born by his father and so on. How the first man came about, I don't know, I didn't come from ape either.

farem:


Even your use of tenses deceives you. What else in life cannot deceive you? April 1st is your day!

English teacher, epp me correct the statement.. Mumu

alBHAGDADI:


The rapture and the second coming of Jesus are the same event, not separate. The below passage shatters all you have been saying since. It shows that the rapture and the second coming of Jesus will not happen until the Antichrist is revealed who will persecuted Christians.


2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The rapture is a secret coming only for the gentile church also reffered to as the bridal church. While the second coming is for the Jewish church who may be reffered to as His brethren. This second coming will be preceeded by Moses and Elijah (the two Olive tree). There are lots of signs to watch out for...

brodalokie:


The rapture is a secret coming only for the gentile church also reffered to as the bridal church. While the second coming is for the Jewish church who may be reffered to as His brethren. This second coming will be preceeded by Moses and Elijah (the two Olive tree). There are lots of signs to watch out for...

Where are all of these written in the Bible?

Jayhazard:

You seem to have this mindset that the bible must state everything explicitly before its existence or genuineness can be proven. This is a carnal mindset and it gives no room for an effective reception of the holy spirit's teachings.

The Holy Spirit doesn't teach anything different from what is in the Bible.

If the Bible doesn't say something and you go about portraying that thing as the word of God, then you make yourself a liar.

sanmitee:
Big thumbs up Op. I was moved to write about this here also, you did great justice to this important issue in believers' beliefs. Do you listen to Pastor Stephen Anderson of First Baptist USA? I'll recommend everyone watch 'After the tribulation' on YouTube.

Pastor Steven Anderson is my mentor. I watch his YouTube videos almost everyday.

Olumeme:


I was born by my father who was born by his father and so on. How the first man came about, I don't know, I didn't come from ape either.

You don't know how the first man came about, but the bible has all the details you need. Why then do you keep rejecting it?

alBHAGDADI:
Where are all of these written in the Bible?

All over the new testerment...
This world will not continue forever. It will to seize to exist maybe sooner than later...
The testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy. One of my occult acquaintance who live in California thinks that the Bible is a book of spell. I think the Bible is the absolute.

.

brodalokie:


All over the new testerment...
This world will not continue forever. It will to seize to exist maybe sooner than later...
The testimony of Jesus Christ is the spirit of prophecy. One of my occult acquaintance who live in California thinks that the Bible is a book of spell. I think the Bible is the absolute.

Show me where it is written all over the new testament.

I'm waiting.

stableprice:
Ignorance & poverty these are d great tribulation


If u got cash n live in the Cosmos or 5d u ruptured already.

If you're not a Christian, you don't have to borther about a tribulation in the first place but the great tribulation will be felt by all and the only way to work, trade or even walk around then is only if you have the Mark of Cain.
The Mark of the beast is some sort of global intelligence corporation which is used for policing, educating and whealth redistribution and has the Beast at the very center.

Ever wonder how closely this resemble the Orion system of reign? Or the Egyptian pyramid? In contrast to the New Jerusalem that the world will experience after?

Add: I've been wanting to say that the office of the Beast is already around for a long time but the Beast in the book of revelation has not been born yet or perhaps not mature yet.

oloriLFC:
what I know, I know. It would be nice of you to mind your business cos I didn't quote you in the first place or what's all these sermon for?

to educate you of your ignorance

Olumeme:


I was born by my father who was born by his father and so on. How the first man came about, I don't know, I didn't come from ape either.

then stop being foolish, and ask the right questions

Swargu:
Someone said he is preparing, you think they will write it... Buhari is our great tribulation sorry to say he might just win next year and complete the 7 years before we will see the light... Yes he dies the 7th year.

u re predicting d death of ur fellow human being, what is ur assurance dt u self will see tomorrow

Eres94:

then stop being foolish, and ask the right questions

Idiocy and stupidity runs in your generation. If your great grandfathers are from clay, we are not here

Jayhazard:

You don't know how the first man came about, but the bible has all the details you need. Why then do you keep rejecting it?

If I don't know would not mean I'll believe any story thrown at me. There are over 500 stories about creation across the world, from various religion and tribes, all are contradictory and not consistent. They are all lies

Jayhazard:

Lol this your logic is funny. Believing in God's existence and subsequently accepting His promise in His son, Jesus Christ isn't what subjects one to an eternal fate. Your very existence as a homo sapiens does, and choosing to BELIEVE will ultimately lead you to the right part of the two fates available.

Sorry, you miss road. Jesus cannot save Africans or Nigerians. Even your name - Jay (Bros Jay/ Jesus) Jayhazard means Jesus hazard. There were Gods in Africa before imperial and Arabic introductons of Allah and Jesus.

Jayhazard:

If I will return unto dust and not have an eternal fate. then what's the point seeking to overcome sin? Please stop deceiving people with this unbiblical doctrine.

Then, argue with your bible that stated it. And why can't you stop sinning instead of struggling and seeking to overcome sin? Your religion is a serious joke taken too seriously.

mufy1990:


u re predicting d death of ur fellow human being, what is ur assurance dt u self will see tomorrow

Its good I am predicting, he has killed people.

Albaghdadi ,u r trying to twist the truth and i would beat u with these facts
1)The church age is different from the tribulation age.many jews,christians have been killed before the rapture and they are saints called matyrs.i ask you "who is killing them? is it antichrist? certainly not.what killed them are the false religions and the religious systems that do not know or believe in Jesus christ.it is the saints and the early church that were killed by these religious system.it is called babylon the great,the woman drunken with the blood of the saints and matyrs of Jesus.rev 17:5-6.it is the kindgom reigning over the kings of the earth.in todays modern world,the roman catholic church is that babylon that would house all other religions under her.but the antichrist would hate her and make her desolate-rev 17:1m to end.Modern democracy has its root from rome.rome ruled when christ was born and would rule again when christ would come ie armageddon.
is democracy not ruling over almost all the world now?

2)Did Jesus die only for the jews ?
religious deeds or acts of good would not make u a christian but believing in Jesus christ and obeying his commandments and doing his will would take u to heaven.do u know that there are many religious people who go to church but do not believe in christ? and do u know that all other religions outside christ are false? why then would satan not create false religions to lure many to hell? Judaism,islam,roman catholicsm are the leading false religiouns in the mystery of iniquity.islam birthed terrorism and the others religious bigotry.any religion that doesnt believe in Jesus christ,nor his name or his death and resurection are antichrist in nature.
the tribulation u r refering to was the persecution of the early church by false religions and roman rule but take note the person of antichrist had not come.it was the roman church system that had been persecuting the jews and even killed Jesus christ and his apostles.Judaism also was a blood sucker.was there any mark of the beas

Olumeme:


If I don't know would not mean I'll believe any story thrown at me. There are over 500 stories about creation across the world, from various religion and tribes, all are contradictory and not consistent. They are all lies

I am dead cert' the Moses account given in the Holy Bible is 100% accurate. Man created and then formed as a living soul and then the fall following redemption program. Every other account is a pervertion