This is what you hear when NUC want to tell you they are working

tiwiex:


You can't be a professor without a PhD. Professor Ozoilo definitely has a PhD. However, some members don't. Graduate assistants don't have PhDs for instance. Insisting no one can lecture without a PhD was over reaching by the NUC.

Graduate assistants do not lecture

DeejaywonDJ1:
NUC is too daft oo, how can you say someone with higher degree(a whole fellowship) than PhD degree to sit down and earn another lesser PhD degree which is equivalent to Master degree in medicine. Medical school graduates are only entitled to use the courtesy title "Doctor" upon registration as a medical practitioner with the relevant regulatory body in their respective country. Medical graduates are eligible to sit postgraduate examinations, including examinations for membership and fellowship of professional institutions. Among the latter are the Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons, postgraduate master's degrees (such as a Master of Surgery or Master of Medicine), and a postgraduate doctorate in medicine (such as Doctor of Medicine or Doctor of Science, if earned in Ireland, the UK or Commonwealth nations, and board certification examinations).

PhD is the highest academic qualification... Stop this nonsense...

jmaine:


PhD is the highest academic qualification... Stop this nonsense...

Actually not.
There are
DsCs DAs and MDs which are higher qualifications

atrix4g:
Please read more about this things.
Over the years, what other countries do and I feel it can be done in Nigeria is incorporating the residency training with an Academic training such that after first two years in the residency training and having satisfied the examiners to move on to be a Senior registrar, you defend a MSc and after your part 2 to become a Consultant which is 3-4 years, you defend a phD and be awarded a MD degree. Most countries adopt this to blend the problem.

South Africa does this

0m0nnakoda:

Actually not.
There are
DsCs DAs and MDs which are higher qualifications

What makes them higher?

ElSherriff:
In America, a university teacher is called a professor. so having ANY Bachelor's degree qualifies you to be an asst professor.

.

jmaine:


What makes them higher?

A number of things notably published research of exceptionally high standard .
Such individuals often already hold a Phd but not always and rarely may not have a masters degree if they came up with Nobel Prize quality research

0m0nnakoda:

Guidelines?
What is the legal force of these guidelines?

The same force with which MDCN stipulated that only medical doctors with clinical fellowship can teach in clinical departments.

This issue is very complex, currently, with fellowship a medical doctor is appointed as a Lecturer one in Nigerian universities, while in engineering for example with phd and coren one is appointed as a lecturer one.. if you take a look at the guidelines for appointments and promotions in most Nigerian universities, MBBS and MSc are the same, while FWACS and co and PhD are the same...
But the issue is that most clinical departments in nigerian universities now want to run an academic postgraduate programme i.e Msc and PhD different from the residency program and this is where the issue starts because to supervise a PhD, one must have a Phd, maybe that is what NUC is trying to solve in line with the best practice obtainable..
Teaching and research are two different areas

jmaine:


PhD is the highest academic qualification... Stop this nonsense...

There is, there are some license degrees in academic which are equivalent to or greater than PhD and moreover Doctor of science (DSc or ScD) is greater than PhD

0m0nnakoda:

Keep consoling yourself.


The status quo is that
a Phd is employed as Lecturer 2

A doctor with Fellowship is employed as Lecturer 1

That is how it has always been and continue to be.
In clinical medicine

Fellowships are higher than Phds

This is wrong analogy...

Coren certified personnels are employed as Lecturer 1 cos it is is backed by a law, it does not in any way mean they are higher than a Ph.D holder...

As a matter of fact, any reputable institution or certification board/agency can have such privileges with good lobby with the governing council of respective Universities..

0m0nnakoda:

Actually not.
There are
DsCs DAs and MDs which are higher qualifications

Just leave him alone alone sir, MD is equivalent PhD and in some instances higher than PhD. PhD is the only highest academic qualification in university. And some schools are called postgraduate schools/college which is different from university

DeejaywonDJ1:

Just leave him alone alone sir, MD is equivalent PhD and in some instances higher than PhD. PhD is the only highest academic qualification in university. And some schools are called postgraduate schools/college which is different from university

Yeah.. 12 and a dozen are different...

sultan003:
This issue is very complex, currently, with fellowship a medical doctor is appointed as a Lecturer one in Nigerian universities, while in engineering for example with phd and coren one is appointed as a lecturer one.. if you take a look at the guidelines for appointments and promotions in most Nigerian universities, MBBS and MSc are the same, while FWACS and co and PhD are the same...
But the issue is that most clinical departments in nigerian universities now want to run an academic postgraduate programme i.e Msc and PhD different from the residency program and this is where the issue starts because to supervise a PhD, one must have a Phd, maybe that is what NUC is trying to solve in line with the best practice obtainable..
Teaching and research are two different areas

A more objective submission... Unilag and other first generation Federal Universities dont allow medical practioners without a PhD to supervise a PhD student

It has been a standing regulation for years...

jmaine:


This is wrong analogy... Coren certified personnels are employed as Lecturer 1 cos it is is backed by a law, it does not in any way mean they are higher than a Ph.D holder...

As a matter of fact, any reputable institution or certification board/agency can have such privileges with good lobby with the governing council level of respective Universities..

In that specific context it is higher,

If you join the army with Phd that does not mean you become Chief of Army Staff.

It is contextual.
Laws do not drop from the sky they have a history.
They are negotiated and have a context

A Phd holder doctor who is not a specialist cannot have his own patients in a general Hospital
He MUST work under Consultant supervision. That illustrates the status of Phd in clinical medicine.
A few practitioners combine the two and go on to publish prolifically but the numbers are tiny

OfficialJayy:
So you mean after all the years that a doctor would spend in school.. spend doing his residency before becoming a consultant... you still want him to spend more years chasing a phD degree that can be bought Na wa oo

....Residency is run concurrently with PhD in other climes.......you can even meet the requirements for a PhD before completing your residency program or vice versa......All they need to do is to sit with NUC to design (streamline) the PhD/Rresidency curriculum....residency also requires exams, papers, seminars, conferences, thesis etc just like PhD but covers a broader subject area...these just need to be streamlined and narrowed to a specific subject area to meet PhD requisites.

jmaine:


Yeah.. 12 and a dozen are different...

Yeah but they all leads to one direction = Higher institution or tertiary institution

AlphaT1:

....Residency is run concurrently with PhD in other climes.......you can even meet the requirements for a PhD before completing your residency program or vice versa......All they need to do is to sit with NUC to design (streamline) the PhD/Rresidency curriculum....residency also requires exams, papers, seminars, conferences, thesis etc just like PhD but covers a broader subject area...these just need to be streamlined and narrowed to a specific subject area to meet PhD requisites.

I do not believe in doing a Phd for the sake of doing so
Does a Phd add value to a doctor?
I think it depends ,sometimes maybe in medical sciences but in specialties like surgery, Orthopaedics it is a waste of time for most unless you want to become a Professor
I need to point out that most doctors are uninterested in that

0m0nnakoda:


In that specific context it is higher,

If you join the army with Phd that does not mean you become Chief of Army Staff.

It is contextual.
Laws do not drop from the sky they have a history.
They are negotiated and have a context

A Phd holder doctor who is not a specialist cannot have his own patients in a general Hospital
He MUST work under Consultant supervision. That illustrates the status of Phd in clinical medicine.
A few practitioners combine the two and go on to publish prolifically but the numbers are tiny

Another erroneous take...

A BSc holder can become COREN Certified... Does that make him higher than a PhD holder...? Yes..?

The Coren privileges doesn't imply they can usurp the pedigree of a PhD degree... They are just what they are certification privileges...

The Council of Microbiologist can tomorrow lobby for an act to give their fellows certain privileges... It doesn't in anyway Trump the superiority of the PhD...

obi4eze:


Maybe NUC actually goofed by allowing them lecture and become Professors without PhD in the past but it seems they realized their error.

The consultants want to continue becoming Professors without PhD. I laugh! Do they actually know the rigors of becoming a PhD holder?
They are not bigger than NUC that regulates them so if NUC says they cant become Professors without PhD then they should either join their colleagues who go on to acquire PhD or get out.

So talking about rigours of PhD? Do u know the rigours of residency training for one to become a consultant.? I think u r as confused as NUC.. The curriculum of medical training is never the same with other discipline globally, as such shouldn't be discussed as with others.

NUC should know better. And stop talking rubbish.

jmaine:


Another erroneous take...

A BSc holder can become COREN Certified... Does that make him higher than a PhD holder...? Yes..?

The Coren privileges doesn't imply they can usurp the pedigree of a PhD degree... They are just what they are certification privileges...

The Council of Microbiologist can tomorrow lobby for an act to give their fellows certain privileges... It doesn't in anyway Trump the superiority of the PhD...

Honestly I do not know what you are talking about and I doubt you do
What the hell is Corin?
You are derailing .........

0m0nnakoda:


Honestly I do not know what you are talking about and I doubt you do
What the hell is Corin?
You are derailing .........

I am not derailing..

If you don't know about Coren and how it affects employment Cadre in the Nigerian tertiary institutions, how is that my fault..?

I brought in the Coren angle to show you that being employed as a lecturer 1 other than the usual lecturer 2 for a fresh PhD holder doesn't necessarily mean it is higher..

A PhD holder with a 2 years or more post Doc experience can be employed as a lecturer 1 or even a senior lecturer .

Very soon nigeria won't even have doctors again

allthingsgood:


Doctors with PhD who can actually teach

Lmfao.

Where are they ??

The National University Commission should not give in to their empty threat of embarking on strike due to the fact that they should obtain PhD before they can lecture. I salute the courage of NUC for such directives. It's a right step in the right direction. These people who parade themselves as Medical doctors have hijacked every available opportunity available for other health workers, be it in the hospital or University. Their ego would not let them accept see others as members of the medical team. Imagine department like medical physiology, anatomy and medical biochemistry, there are higher number of lecturers who are medical and dental doctors than the real lecturers who possess degree in these courses. Infact, there was a time the so called MDCN threatened that before you can lecture in those department mentioned above , you must possess MBBS or BDS. They believe that they are only professionals relevant in the health sector. They have refused to embrace the global medical best practices which give room to other health workers like physiologists to be part of the health team in the hospital. Once again, I salute the courage of the NUC for such directives if only they will not yield to their selfish threat of embarking on strike.There own don too much.

Jokerman:


Itd the same for engineer

5 years- BSc
3 years - MSc
4 years- PhD

4 years residency(work experience)- Certified Engineer

Yet you don't see us complaining. Remember Engineering also deals with lives, more so properties

Engineers should organize their own strike and demand whatever they like.

Meanwhile doctors still spend more time in school than engineers.

ElSherriff:
LOL...it is not rigorous at all. Buy forms, find a problem area, state your problems and justification and then complete a Ph.D. It is as simple as ABC.


What no one has mentioned is that the University is not a teaching institution alone. It is much more inclined to research than to teaching. If you must make impact as a teacher, you must be capable of original thought and philosophy. Ask yourself: why are there very few ground breaking research contribution from the medical sector to globally recognized journals?

Since it is bean cake, test yourself and complete it after all medicine is the alpha and omega of education. Little wonder y'all earning peanuts and poorly recognized!

By the way, I have completed a Ph.D and I have medical doctors as siblings, my wife is a doctor and both my inlaws and doctors as well.

only in Nigeria. Medical doctors are one of the richest professional in other countries. That's why a lot of Nigerian doctrs are leaving the country and doing well there. But don't worry, your wife will treat you but for the other clueless ones following your footsteps, who will treat them?

You wife and in-laws, do they have a PhD, and if they do, do they have it in a clinical specialty? Do they see sick patients with their PhD?

I don't think any of my lecturers who are in the clinical settings in clinical medicine have a PhD.What they have is a fellowship. The ones that are professors among them, even emeritus professors, got that title through research without your precious PhD, so should they now stop giving to humanity, because of a degree that adds no value in their field.

Think of your unborn future generations. If people equate being a PhD will a fellow, no one will go for fellowship any longer. After all, who wants to waste all that time. And 20-30 years down the line, you will begin to wonder why medical standards have abysmally dropped.
Fellowship isn't sort and pass like your Nigerian PhD. After all, Jonathan has a PhD, who e epp?

Jokerman:


Itd the same for engineer

5 years- BSc
3 years - MSc
4 years- PhD

4 years residency(work experience)- Certified Engineer

Yet you don't see us complaining. Remember Engineering also deals with lives, more so properties

do the engineering residents defend dissertations to become certified?

Jubilee1982:
The National University Commission should not give in to their empty threat of embarking on strike due to the fact that they should obtain PhD before they can lecture. I salute the courage of NUC for such directives. It's a right step in the right direction. These people who parade themselves as Medical doctors have hijacked every available opportunity available for other health workers, be it in the hospital or University. Their ego would not let them accept see others as members of the medical team. Imagine department like medical physiology, anatomy and medical biochemistry, there are higher number of lecturers who are medical and dental doctors than the real lecturers who possess degree in these courses. Infact, there was a time the so called MDCN threatened that before you can lecture in those department mentioned above , you must possess MBBS or BDS. They believe that they are only professionals relevant in the health sector. They have refused to embrace the global medical best practices which give room to other health workers like physiologists to be part of the health team in the hospital. Once again, I salute the courage of the NUC for such directives if only they will not yield to their selfish threat of embarking on strike.There own don too much.

what mucopurulent nonsense are you spewing?

You're just a hater

allthingsgood:


Nor is PhD a legal degree or a business degree or an art degree
You have no point!

Get some facts, the reason for this thread is to enlighten us all, in clinical training of doctors PhD is not required, in fellowship they do research and write dissertation, fellowship combines what PhD does and add clinical practical experience which the doctor needs to treat patients.

For doctors in basic medical sciences they need PhD

jmaine:


I am not derailing..

If you don't know about Coren and how it affects employment Cadre in the Nigerian tertiary institutions, how is that my fault..?

I brought in the Coren angle to show you that being employed as a lecturer 1 other than the usual lecturer 2 for a fresh PhD holder doesn't necessarily mean it is higher..

A PhD holder with a 2 years or more post Doc experience can be employed as a lecturer 1 or even a senior lecturer .

Higher is an English word in the dictionary
Check it up