Quote by dafidixone

Being Born again is to be born of Water(Baptism by immersion) and Spirit (Like in the day of Penticost).

Old things will have to pass away, you turn a new creation.  Remeber the Kingdom of God is to be taken like a baby.

Jesus used the term born again is to be born of water and of Spirit.  "Water" here is a figure of speech and does not mean water baptism.  Millions of people especially in the orthodox churches have got the misconception that if they are baptised by immerson that they are born again.  Water means the Word of God as rightly stated by pilgrim.1 in 1Peter 1:23; also in Ephesian 5:26; Jn.4:14; 15:3; James 1:18;

Water baptism is for those who have repented of their sins and received Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour.

On the other hand many pentecostals also miss the point when they claim that one only gets born again when they get baptized in the Holy Ghost.  One is born again when the incorruptible Word of God cleanses and converts us when it is mixed with faith in our hearts.  The Holy Spirit brings forth the new birth or new life in Christ.  When we hear the glorious gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ the Lord deposits faith in our hearts and with a contrite and broken spirit we go to the Lord in repentance and we receive eternal life through Jesus Christ.

Salvation can be in three stages
1. The new birth experience 2Cor.7:10;
2. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling Philipians 2:12; 1Cor. 9:27; 10:12-14; Heb.6:4-9; 10:26-39; 2Pet.2:20-22
3. The final salvation-  Matt.24:13;

Water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism happens after the new birth experience

pilgrim.1:

@mazaje,

How body?

Isn't it ironical that something is actually troubling you? Why all the unnecessary over-reaction if you are at peace with yourself?

The only thing that is troubling me  is the fact that people like you waste time spreading hate and division  all in the name of religion(christianity, islam,hinduism etc). Who told you that your faith is better than the catholic faith? how did you know? who were the ones that formed the christian religion? who were the people that choose the books that are now called the bible? who were the ones that choose the various symbols of christianity(cross,rossary,trinity,hyme,choir etc), who were the ones that choose the christain day of worship and christain festivities? Who were the ones that made sure the christianity is what it is today by exterminating all dissidents and making sure that their own way and idea is what remains and is practised all over the world? Have you ever heard of the chattars and the Knight Templers(read about them incase you have no idea of who the are)? would the present day christianity still have been the way it is if not for the catholic church? stop wallowing in ignorance and dessist from skewed judgement. The answer to all the question I asked above is tha catholic church, The whole christain idea and concept emanated from the catholics no wonder  Pope Leo X (1475-1521), was alleged to have said "the fable of Christ has been quite profitable to us". Keep on deluding your self and pretending that your cult is better than that of the others.

@pilgrim,

There are so many articles that points to the fact that pentecostals worship money and materialism? why is divorce so high inpentecostalism today with their intense knowledge of the bible? Almost every pentecostal preacher in America is divorced? Don't they also see God's injuction on divorce?. Will you also agree to that?

Mother theresa said, "if you criticise people so much, you will not have time to love them as our heavenly father commands". I've been to the catholic church over 10x in my life and have never seen them worshipping mary. How can they be worshipping mary when they themselves were very instrumental in the compilation of the early version of the bible that includes the 10 commandments? Pentecostals are the reason why America is thinking of investigation churches now and impose them with taxes.

haba, God knows how else you'll nail catholics to the cross if they accepted homosexuality and marry gay gay people like 'some' other churches including pentecostals.

Take the speck out of your own eye first because it's not today that we started seeing the hausas with arrows. Gone are the days when we hear and accept that catholics are evil while pentecostals and born again and heaven bound[b]. Practice what you preach by showing brotherly love first.[/b]

What is the difference between what we do to our christian brothers and what we accuse the extremist Islamists of doing to other people in the world that does not share their religious belief?.

@mazaje,

If your rejoinder was crafted for the sake of conscience, honesty and fairness, I would not read YOU producing what is far from simple historical truth. In many ways, your misgivings (whereever they derive from) point again to the fact that you are not seeking a discussion, but rather seeking an avenue to express the unsettlement of your troubled heart. I know many people who are in that state of existence - and whether you believe it or not, they are no better than the ones they have sought to ridicule.

Let me address your misgivings in brief:

mazaje:

The only thing that is troubling me  is the fact that people like you waste time spreading hate and division  all in the name of religion(christianity, islam,hinduism etc).

You haven't done better either but only further expressed hate yourself. What did Christians, Muslims or any other do to YOU that your entry into discussing any matter has to be so callous in the first place? Talk about peace - do YOU sound like you have a clue what it is all about?

Now when you assume that we are "spreading" hate and division because we debate issues that are publicly affecting, it points out the fact that you haven't taken the time to look carefully into the subjects being discussed. This is not about whose "cult" is the best in the pack - it is rather about two things:

     ~ (a) honest acknowledgement of Biblical truths regardless the denomination:
       which is why I refrained from making my discussions with Catholics a matter
       of which denomination I attend. If the Bible says "A" and forbids ð¿,
       our conscience should be humble enough to uphold what the Bible offers and
       reject what it forbids.

     ~ (b) affirmations of our convictions that should not misrepresent our faith:
       if non-Christians assume just about anything (as you have done), it is an index
       of the fact that such misrepresentations have been esposed and honoured by
       careless Christians who, for tradition's sake, have jettisoned the Bible itself and
       replaced their Christian convictions with falsehood.

Christianity is not about being mute in the face of heresies. The tacit acknowledgement of such falsehood is the reason why we have screaming headlines today of clerics abusing children, sexual perversion, 419 in high places, etc. What would people like yourself mazaje do in the face of such bad news? Of course, you will join hands with people to condemn the whole of Christianity - as if Christianity "approves" of such vices.

In the same vein, where any group or movement projects the very same root idea that give rise to such vices, we as Christians have the moral responsibility to counter such issues and make it clear once and for all that the foundation of such vices are UNBIBLICAL. A case in point is why this thread was started by someone to ask an honest question - for whatever reason he might have asked it.

It is quite a lazy adventure for someone to sit behind closed curtains and assume that we are spreading "hate and division" for pointing out these issues. I, for one, will readily choose to separate from clerics who mount the pulpits and declare that it is alright for them to be engaged in homosexual activities, and look the other way when leaders become pedophiles. We have heard it once too many times how such clerics tell us that the reason why we should all be "united"  under such clandestine activities is that "God loves", "God loves" "God loves" and does not discriminate!!

Don't sit down lazily and tell me that I should be "united" with pedophiles and homosexual clerics because you're too scared to tackle the real issues that we should HATE! I am not afraid to speak out against these issues and others even if your holy cows are gutted! if you truly have any clue about "peace and unity", you should understand why we MUST discuss these issues PUBLICLY and not sit lazily pointing accusing fingers at discussants in your sanctimonious idea of "spreading" hate and division.

mazaje:

Who told you that your faith is better than the catholic faith? how did you know?

I never said anywhere that my faith is "better" - but I have made bold again and again to share why MARIOLATRY is a serious departure from Biblical Christianity.

mazaje:

who were the ones that formed the christian religion?

Definitely NOT Catholics. Go and get your facts right and let us know where you read anywhere that any of the apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ was a Roman Catholic.

mazaje:

who were the people that choose the books that are now called the bible? who were the ones that choose the various symbols of christianity(cross,rossary,trinity,hyme,choir etc), who were the ones that choose the christain day of worship and christain festivities?

Sorry, that anyone sat down in any committee to choose anything does not attest that those who chose anything actually adhere to the teachings of the Bible. The ones who "chose" the canon of Scripture are not the ones who "wrote" them. The doctrine of the Trinity predates the catholic Church - unless you want to suddenly make the OT prophets into Catholic monks. And as for hymns, you only demonstrate the FACT that you are arguing from a cublicle with a runaway mentality that has refused to carefully check with the facts - for those who sang hymns were NOT Catholics: go see for yourself - [Matt. 26:30; Mark 14:26; Ephesians 5:19; Col. 3:16].

mazaje:

Who were the ones that made sure the christianity is what it is today by exterminating all dissidents and making sure that their own way and idea is what remains and is practised all over the world?

Don't make me laugh, mazaje! The Catholics might have murdered hundreds of thousands of dissidents in order to preserve their "Catholic" traditions; but not all Christians practise Catholicism today all over the world. Christians who are non-Catholics do NOT share the ideas of catholicism - that is why they are NOT Catholics - and that is why you have to edit your idea that the Catholic "own way and idea is what remains". Wrong sir.

mazaje:

Have you ever heard of the chattars and the Knight Templers(read about them incase you have no idea of who the are)? would the present day christianity still have been the way it is if not for the catholic church?

Christianity began before Catholicism - it survived inspite of catholcism - it would still have remained despite Catholic efforts to extermintae non-Catholics. Did you ever think of that?

mazaje:

stop wallowing in ignorance and dessist from skewed judgement.

You really need that advice more than anyone on Nairaland.

mazaje:

The answer to all the question I asked above is tha catholic church, The whole christain idea and concept emanated from the catholics

Hahaha! Who was your history teacher again? He or she really shortchanged you for the many years you sat under their tutleage. Please drop your revisionist and edited history and open the books to understand HOW your answer to all those questions have scored you a zero!

mazaje:

no wonder  Pope Leo X (1475-1521), was alleged to have said "the fable of Christ has been quite profitable to us".

Oh dear, many Popes said worse things than Pope Leo X - before and after him. And for all that, they were proven to be nothing short of liars. They might have believed that Christ was a "fable" - for the simple reason that they never had a living relationship with Him. I for one would have been a pagan when I left Islam; but I had a living encouter with the living Christ and proved for myself that Pope Leo was an incorrigible liar. Sorry, truth hurts anyways.

mazaje:

Keep on deluding your self and pretending that your cult is better than that of the others.

I haven't started out anywhere with that as my aim - and your troubled heart needs a peaceful resolve which you can only find in Christ. To attack others in the insane manner you have attempted does not make you a better person, did you ever think of that?

Cheers.

@hotfunmi,

I usually would not like to take you apart; not because we share the same gender, but because I would rather you made some sense from your persuasions. More than anything, your posts are nothing short of recycled excuses that are so skewed from the core concerns of biblical Christianity. I hope to simply lead you carefully through a clear perspective, if you may:

hotfunmi:

@pilgrim,

There are so many articles that points to the fact that pentecostals worship money and materialism?

Pentecostals do NOT "worship" money and materialism. They may be sadly caught in the web of the insidious "Prosperity Gospel"; but that is not to assume that they worship money.

However, if you look carefully (and I have shared on this before), you'll be staggered to see what the Catholic Church has done with money and materialism.

Just a case in point, a thread was floated in December about Redeemed Church (RCCG) building an auditorium costing about N7.7 billion. Many contributors "complained" about what a waste it actually was; and someone helped us calculate the figure by forex exchange to the tune of about $57 million.

Guess what? Nobody has carefully turned the spotlight on the most expensive Church building in history! It's known as Cathedral of Christ the Light; and news has it that its costs has climbed "from $131 million in 2003 to $190 million in 2007" (here). And by the way, that is a CATHOLIC cathedral. . . hehe.

Please do the simple maths: $190 million for your Catholic Cathedral is thrice over the humble $57 million RCCG building.

Who's worshipping money and materialism now?

hotfunmi:

why is divorce so high inpentecostalism today with their intense knowledge of the bible?

I don't know. I honestly don't know. But does that say that Catholics (especially in America) have no HIGH divorce rates?

"I think it is hypocritical for the Vatican and the Bishops
to pretend that they are not promoting divorce when,
in fact, they increasingly have taken practical measures
to make it easy and to speed up the process."
~ (http://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/082bev11-20-2006.htm)

Who's fooling who?

hotfunmi:

Almost every pentecostal preacher in America is divorced? Don't they also see God's injuction on divorce?. Will you also agree to that?

No, I do not agree with that. To agree with you on that would require me to know who and who are "Almost every pentecostal preacher in America" - and I honestly do not know every one of them.

hotfunmi:

Mother theresa said, "if you criticise people so much, you will not have time to love them as our heavenly father commands".

Unfortunately, mother Theresa was sadly known to be a smiling saint in public eyes, but a skeptic sister in the recesses of her own enclave. So I'd take her poetic fluctuations with a pinch of salt.

hotfunmi:

I've been to the catholic church over 10x in my life and have never seen them worshipping mary.

You were born recently - you should have lived in the days of Pope Pius XII and challenged him too his face when he asserted that Catholics have worshipped Mary "heavenly mother" from theearly Christian era.

hotfunmi:

How can they be worshipping mary when they themselves were very instrumental in the compilation of the early version of the bible that includes the 10 commandments?

I don't know. In the same way, let me ask:

How could they be bowing down to images when they were "compiling" the canon that stated that God expressly forbids such?

hotfunmi:

Pentecostals are the reason why America is thinking of investigation churches now and impose them with taxes.

Maybe so - I don't live in America to be able to say something more cogent. But I guess part of the investigations into churches these days are not about money and taxes - we know about Catholic priest who have been and are still being investigated for sexual vices and abuses on children.

hotfunmi:

haba, God knows how else you'll nail catholics to the cross if they accepted homosexuality and marry gay gay people like 'some' other churches including pentecostals.

I won't nail anyone to the Cross. But I have enough courage to tell them to their faces that such activities are Biblically unacceptable - and it doesn't matter whether they are catholic or Pentecostals.

hotfunmi:

Take the speck out of your own eye first because it's not today that we started seeing the hausas with arrows.

I don't brandish arrows, nor am I Hausa.

hotfunmi:

Gone are the days when we hear and accept that catholics are evil while pentecostals and born again and heaven bound[b]. Practice what you preach by showing brotherly love first.[/b]

I do practise what I preach - and love for the brethren includes warning them of God's disapproval of the activities they engage in today that still lead many astray.

I haven't started out anywhere with that as my aim - and your troubled heart needs a peaceful resolve which you can only find in Christ. To attack others in the insane manner you have attempted does not make you a better person, did you ever think of that?

You make me laugh when i point out difference you call it attack, i wont spend my time arguing or rubutting all what you have said cos that is not what i will care to do cos i have better things to do than that, each to his/her own i don't believe in christainity simple and to you that means i am troubled chie na wa ohhh the only person troubled here is you. i believe you don't have the peace of mind i have and thats not something i will like to spend time talking about either, i dont believe simple, i will say it again all you guys do here is spend time trying to prove that you cult(faith and believe) is better than that of others and the manner which you go about it is very ridiculous to me.

@mazaje,

mazaje:

You make me laugh when i point out difference you call it attack,

Please stop hiding behind your finger. Call it anything you may; but you don't just jump into a thread and assume that others are "deranged" and hope to run away with that thought.

mazaje:

i wont spend my time arguing or rubutting all what you have said because that is not what i will care to do because i have better things to do than that,

You disappoint me. Seriously. I had hoped that you would help with some pointers so I could learn from you all the more - especially in those areas where I might have been holding unbalanced views about the origins of the Catholic Church.

mazaje:

each to his/her own i don't believe in christainity simple and to you that means i am troubled chie na wa ohhh the only person troubled here is you.

I am not troubled. For long this attitude of yours to just barge in and accused others of being "deranged" had gone on unchecked. We just had to be sure that your temperature was normal, that's all.

mazaje:

i believe you don't have the peace of mind i have and thats not something i will like to spend time talking about either, i don't believe simple, i will say it again all you guys do here is spend time trying to prove that you cult(faith and believe) is better than that of others and the manner which you go about it is very ridiculous to me.

No worries. You may assume anything you want to about Christians; but isn't it ironical that none of them in your allegations of paranoia against them has referred to you as "deranged"?

Easy, mazaje. Enjoy your life and drop the misgivings.

Easy, mazaje. Enjoy your life and drop the misgivings 

Ok baby i urge you to do the same lots of love

please let us leave catholic an mary alone.

Catholic or pentcostal will not take us to heaven

Expect when u do the will of God

After all ,salvation is personal

Mary is the mother of Jesus everybody knows that, i dont know why you people are hiding way from the truth.

We will keep sying GLORY BE TO JESUS HONOUR TO MARY.

@topic,

are they even xtians?

agatha2u:

please let us leave catholic an mary alone.

Catholic or pentcostal will not take us to heaven

Expect when u do the will of God

After all ,salvation is personal

Mary is the mother of Jesus everybody knows that, i don't know why you people are hiding way from the truth.

We will keep sying GLORY BE TO JESUS HONOUR TO MARY.

This is the lies that the enemy the devil has been telling right from the time of Adam and Eve. Why must you honour mary ? who commanded that ? the Bible commanded the honour of Christ as the Messiah but Mary Cant you see that the glory that is due to God is been rationed between mary and God Himself? Mary is not to be praised nor honour. Non of the apostles did that, not even Jesus Himself he never called Mary mother rather He refer to her as "woman" This honouring of Mary that you believed in, where did you hear it from? The Bible warns that even if any angel or any other comes with another message apart from what we have heard and read from the word of God we should not accept it. Why do you guys find it so easy to be led away by this cheap preaching of this Anti Christ? I just don't get it.

whateva the catholics and thier sympathizers think , the most important thing is to get to heaven, not so? donc, if your faith in mary takes you there, all fine, but i think the part in my bible that says that jesus is the way truth and life is not turn off.

Well for one to answer the question I guess we must first define concisely what it means to be born again. If by being born again you mean for a person to go for an alter call after a moving sermon, renounce his sins and openly declare an acceptance of Christ, note down the date, then go around engaging in activities that are downright sinfull and hypocritical at best. Return to church every now again anf lift up "holy hands" in acord with other such people, speaking Christianese, etc, who needs it?!

Being born again is not about that one ceremony you did the day you "accepted Christ" it is your concious everyday walk with Christ. It's of no use if you are "born-again" and by your everyday thoughts and action you are dead to Christ. Your spiritual circumcision will simply be made uncircumcision. We don't do that routine where a pastor makes altar calls to the pulpit and pray for people and declare them born again. A Catholic and any Christian, is only born again based on your personal purpose to walk daily with Christ and raise his standards in the things you do. Will any one realy be a Christian otherwise?

and this is why I decided to stay away from the forum to be honest.

we will ALWAYS have people that believe different to us even in the same family (christianity)

so as long as we argue about salvation itself, we will NEVER agree as to who is and who is not. LOL

its funny but a long time ago I agreed that as there is only 1 new heaven and 1 new earth, we better start getting to accept people whether we agree with them or not, "as much as is possible, live peacably with all men, (par)

"Well for one to answer the question I guess we must first define concisely what it means to be born again. If by being born again you mean for a person to go for an alter call after a moving sermon, renounce his sins and openly declare an acceptance of Christ, note down the date, then go around engaging in activities that are downright sinfull and hypocritical at best. Return to church every now again anf lift up "holy hands" in acord with other such people, speaking Christianese, etc, who needs it?!

Being born again is not about that one ceremony you did the day you "accepted Christ" it is your concious everyday walk with Christ. It's of no use if you are "born-again" and by your everyday thoughts and action you are dead to Christ. Your spiritual circumcision will simply be made uncircumcision. We don't do that routine where a pastor makes altar calls to the pulpit and pray for people and declare them born again. A Catholic and any Christian, is only born again based on your personal purpose to walk daily with Christ and raise his standards in the things you do. Will any one realy be a Christian otherwise?

So according to this when ever you sin, you cancel out your "membership" to the "saved club"? I personally do NOT agree with this but again, we all have our different views on this i guess.

thesilent1:


So according to this when ever you sin, you cancel out your "membership" to the "saved club"? I personally do NOT agree with this but again, we all have our different views on this i guess.

Was my post so difficult for you to understand?

Goodday Pilgrim.1. Honestly i like your arguments and I appreciate you ability to type. This is a clear indication that you have a calling to evangelize and take the Word of God to every corner of the earth in print and orally. In Nigeria today, many other than the Catholics do not know Christ and as such they do not believe in him. My advice is that you do well to preach to them and leave the Catholics who in one way or the other believe in Jesus. For instance, in the nothern part of this country they need you there and you will be doing God graret injustice if you do not move to the north and preach in public and distribute you tracts.

Below is a Christian tract that explains vividly what it means to be born again and also dispels the erroneous assumption of the term "Christian". Enjoy.

"The questions are often asked, “Who is a Christian? How do I know a Christian if I meet one? Does Matthew, Luke, or John pass for a Christian? Is everyone who raises up his hand in response to a preacher’s call to repentance a Christian? Does everyone who passes through the church isle to the altar pass for a Christian? Are all those in church pews during church services Christians? Who is a Christian? Finally you may ask, “Am I a Christian?”

A soul winner on evangelism met a drunk drifting down a lane. In his attempt to help him discover the true purpose of living’ he asked, “Are you a Christian?” The answer came quick and sharp “What do you think I am? A Pagan?” This is a pitiful point.

A brilliant preacher full of energy and zeal got the pass mark of his congregation. But his life at home showed a pattern of pride and jealousy found in the fallen angel - Lucifer.

A gifted and talented lady-soloist sings like an angel and prays like a prophet but she talks and acts with thunder and volcano in her voice. Her red-hot temper, contentiousness and confusion are marks of her presence at home or at work. Are these Christians? A ‘Niagara’ of stormy words is an indication of the absence of Christ in the heart.

Being a Christian is not a new label: It is a new life. The word ‘Christian’ first occurred in the New Testament. It was not in the Old Testament. “The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts11: 26). From the first use of a word, the true meaning and significance of the word become clear. Disciples were called Christians.

‘Disciple’ is a prominent word in the New Testament. It did not have any place in the Jewish Religion. One of the disciples in Antioch referred to as a Christian was in Jewish religion (Galatians 1:13) before he became a Christian. Living by the Mosiac code of “ordinance, touch not, taste not, handle not,” the ceremonial washing in holy water is ignorance of true discipleship and Christianity. Christianity centres on Jesus Christ - His love, life and light. A Christian therefore is the person who lives the life of Christ as revealed in the New Testament.

The New Testament opens with Jesus Christ who saves from sin (Matthew 1:21) and closes with Jesus Christ, the King who will come quickly - Revelation 22:20. Christ died to make you a Christian. He did not have to die to make you a churchgoer; you can do that on your own. But you cannot overcome sin in your natural human nature. Christ died to suffer for you-through Christ’s merit. If you confess your sins and ask for pardon and grace you will be forgiven. Peace and joy will come into your heart. You will never be the same again. Christ died to make you live - through definite faith in His precious Blood[/color][color=#990000]; your heart and life are changed. Christ died to reconcile you to God. Through His meritorious sacrifice, a love relationship is established between you and God. Christ died to give you a new heart and life like His. You can only enjoy a new heart at the expense of another.

The Christian life radiates the beauty of Christ’s lifestyle - humility, obedience, love, integrity and newness of life. Check up if you are a Christian. If not, why not? “Be not deceived: God is not mocked: For whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” (Galatians 6:7). Remember that “not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven: but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in Heaven.”

You can decide to confess your sins to God today and repent - make a wholehearted change of life. Ask for pardon from God in the Name of Jesus, the only one Mediator between God and man (1 Timothy 2:5). Believe God for His mercy. Changed and transformed, begin to live a Christian life.

1. Pray everyday especially before you go out in the morning and before you sleep in the evening.

2. Read the Bible everyday especially in the morning before you begin the day and before you sleep in the evening.

3. Fellowship with Bible-believing Christians.

4. Be conscious of the presence of Jesus EVERY TIME; therefore, do not do whatever will displease Him.

5. Send for more tracts to give to your friends as you share your testimonies with them."



Your spiritual welfare is our concern. For more help write or contact:

DEEPER CHRISTIAN LIFE MINISTRY Visit: www.dclm.org

Email: infoinfo@deeperlifeonline.org

@ NAIRALANDERS
mary or no mary, bornagain or not bornagain. i think the matter is all about 'personal conviction on the philosophy of life and religion " view GOD as a MOUNTAIN TOP with many, different sides to d top. d various sects are sides or means through which all religious group contact their creator.
the foundation is laid already, each person should consider what or how he/she is building on it.
Life is not an ARGUMENTATIVE ESSAY!

this is the bottomline: , to them that believeth, he gave the power/right to become the SONS OF GOD. PERIOD!