OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is Kurios.

The New Testament Greek equivalent of the Old Testament Hebrew name Yahweh is Kurios. Used of God, Kurios carries the idea of a sovereign being who exercises absolute authority. The word is translated Lord in English translations of the Bible.

To an early Christian accustomed to reading the Old Testament, the word Lord, when used of Jesus, would point to His identification with the God of the Old Testament (Yahweh). Hence, the affirmation that "Jesus is Lord" (Kurios) in the New Testament constitutes a clear affirmation that Jesus is Yahweh, as is the case in passages like Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, and Philippians 2:5–11.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

aletheia:
I have not even started quoting the relevant verses in Job. . .yet. The reference given by Olaadegbu is one of them. And it is obvious you have not understood what this words mean: For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God.

1. This verse shows the pre-Incarnate existence of Christ.
2. It also shows that the redeemer is God Himself.

You string together verses and yet do not understand what they are telling you: e.g.
I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the Lord Almighty.

But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,

You dishonestly highlighted the first part "I will send my messenger" of verse 1 and "But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?", the beginning of verse 2. Whereas the subject of the part "But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?" is actually this part of verse 1: the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,
That is the one whose coming is referred to in verse 2 not the messenger who will prepare the way.

What is clear here in Malachi is that the Lord Almighty Himself is speaking and he says:
1. He will send his messenger who will prepare the way before me. What do the words "before me" tell you?
2. The Lord Himself will come to his temple. The Lord who comes to his temple is the messenger of the covenant.

The identity of the messenger who prepares the way in Malachi 3:1 is clear, identified and established without equivocation by none other than Jesus Christ Himself:
This is he, of whom it is written, [u]Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Luk 7:27

And the identity of the Lord in Malachi 3:1-3 is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

The evidence for the deity of Jesus abounds in nearly all books of the bible but your perception filters cloud your vision and prevent you from seeing them.

truthislight:
is this simulteniouse equation that you are solving?
Lol.
Job talked about the time he will be resurrected by Jesus a messenger of Yahweh.
Infact you are inputing wrong ideas into those scriptures, the scriptures does not need your help, just allow the scriptures to speak for itself.
You mixed alot of things up that are unrelated.

frosbel:
Man + spirit = Soul
Man - spirit = DEAD

aletheia:
^
Wrong. . .these words of Jesus show that the soul is separate and differentiated from the body.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:28

It says "both soul and body"

frosbel:
Jesus is referred to as Lord and not God in this quoted scripture , so you got this one right and at least this proves that this verse cannot be used to support the doctrine of Trinity.

frosbel:
Somebody is speaking , guess who it is , Lord Almighty God or Jehovah.

aletheia:
What is clear here in Malachi is that the Lord Almighty Himself is speaking. . .

frosbel:
2 statements were made here .
1. I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me - John the baptist
2. Then the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. - Jesus Christ

aletheia:
1. He will send his messenger "who will prepare the way before me". What do the words "before me" tell you?
2. The Lord Himself will come to his temple. The Lord who comes to his temple is the messenger of the covenant.

The identity of the messenger who prepares the way in Malachi 3:1 is clear, identified and established without equivocation by none other than Jesus Christ Himself:
This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Luk 7:27

And the identity of the Lord in Malachi 3:1-3 is Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

frosbel:
If you had taken the time to check a lexicon rather than jump to conclusions as you are apt to do , maybe you would have noticed that the 2 Lords mentioned represent two distinct titles

frosbel:
The first Lord which refers to Christ. . .

aletheia:
1. He will send his messenger "who will prepare the way before me". [size=14pt]What do the words "before me" tell you?[/size]

[quote author=aletheia]
Jesus is referred to as Lord in many scriptures.

^
So now you appeal to a lexicon? Aren't you just the hypocrite?

^
This a rather lame explanation. The Almighty is also referred to as "'adown aw-done' or (shortened) adon {aw-done'}" in several OT scriptures. For example in Micah 4:13 both adown aw-done and Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw appear. Does the adown aw-done here refer to any other than Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw

In the OT where context shows that the Person in consideration is Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw, adown aw-done refers to Him.

So I repeat the question I asked you comrade in the post that you are responding to:

frosbel:
The Body dies and this is a physical death which is why Jesus said do not fear those who can kill the body.

However at the resurrection , when the spirit of God will be put back into this body for judgement, this body shall become a living soul once more, and if found guilty will be sentenced to eternal irreversible death.

This is why the bible says the soul that sins shall die and of course this is the second death , the last and final everlasting punishment.
. . .
Man is a soul ONLY because he has the spirit or breath/wind of God in his body.

aletheia:
. . .these words of Jesus show that the soul is separate and differentiated from the body.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:28

It says "both soul and body"

aletheia:
^
See how you are gyrating all over the place just to try and fit the simple words of Jesus "both soul and body", into your confused doctrinal view. Let's subject your post to simple logic.
Both implies "two", it 's really all simple arithmetic.
1. Body + Soul = both Body and Soul
2. The Body can be killed by men, but the Soul cannot be killed by men.
3. When the Body dies, what happens to the Soul? According to you the Soul dies when the Body dies, because. . .
4. If the soul ceases to exist then it means the soul is dead, whether at the physical death or at the judgement, it makes no difference because it has ceased to exist in both cases.

(If you think about what you have written above): your words imply that there is no difference between when the body dies (physical death) and "eternal irreversible death".

. . .but Jesus Christ clearly teaches us the opposite of what you write: which is there is a difference between the physical (First) death and the second Death.

And note how this verse references soul, spirit and "body":
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:12

frosbel: one of your tantrums in action, watch your health, permanent anger can be bad for you.

frosbel:
A copy and paste Job with the intention of appearing a step above the rest intellectually

frosbel:
Deceptive nonsense, I carefully took the time to point by point tear your incorrect commentary on Malachi 1:1-3 to shreds, and you have now jumped to Malachi 4:13, stop being a grasshopper mind, let us complete these points one by one.

aletheia:
This a rather lame explanation. The Almighty is also referred to as "'adown aw-done' or (shortened) adon {aw-done'}" in several OT scriptures. For example in Micah 4:13 both adown aw-done and Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw appear. Does the adown aw-done here refer to any other than Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw

In the OT where context shows that the Person in consideration is Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw, adown aw-done refers to Him.

aletheia:
1. He will send his messenger "who will prepare the way before me". [size=14pt]What do the words "before me" tell you?[/size]

You are dishonest and lazy. . .hence you avoid the main issue raised and go after red herrings. Typical debating tactic! The main thrust of your argument is simply that in Malachi 3:1-3 since adon clearly refers to Jesus Christ, it cannot then be referring to Jehovah. I simply pointed out to you and others who may be reading that adon is used of Jehovah several times in the OT, even providing an example from Micah (or don't you understand what the words "for example" in my post mean?).

Obviously you are afraid of what the scriptures clearly say. . .and we are at liberty to quote from Genesis to Revelation for the whole scriptures testify of Jesus.

Tell us frosbel in Isa 6:1. . .which Lord is sitting on the throne?
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isa 6:1

frosbel:
Again, Jesus never made any clear cut comment to suggest rather erroneously that when we die, our soul separates from the body. If he did , can you kindly show me where.

aletheia:
See how you are gyrating all over the place just to try and fit the simple words of Jesus "both soul and body", into your confused doctrinal view. Let's subject your post to simple logic.
Both implies "two", it 's really all simple arithmetic.
1. Body + Soul = both Body and Soul
2. The Body can be killed by men, but the Soul cannot be killed by men.
3. When the Body dies, what happens to the Soul? According to you the Soul dies when the Body dies, because. . .
4. If the soul ceases to exist then it means the soul is dead, whether at the physical death or at the judgement, it makes no difference because it has ceased to exist in both cases.

(If you think about what you have written above): your words imply that there is no difference between when the body dies (physical death) and "eternal irreversible death".

. . .but Jesus Christ clearly teaches us the opposite of what you write: which is there is a difference between the physical (First) death and the second Death.

frosbel:
Plato's tripartite theory of soul is a theory of soul proposed by the ancient Greek philosopher Plato in his treatise the Republic. In it, Plato argues that the soul is composed of three parts: the appetitive, the rational, and the spirited. These three parts of the soul also correspond to the three classes of a just society.[1] Individual justice consists in maintaining these three parts in the correct balance, where reason (aided by spirit) rules, and appetite obeys - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato's_tripartite_theory_of_soul

frosbel:
Together with the Trinity and eternal torment, you will be shocked at how close the brand of Christianity you practise is to Gnosticism than Christ.

Think about it.

frosbel:
spirit and soul is a plain statement, no ? This Word can divide the Soul from the spirit ( God's life in us ) and the Joints and marrow , how on earth can you use this clear statement to deduct the three part man

frosbel:
Mate , be careful of your theology, it is scary !!

frosbel: I have quoted hundreds of verses, as usual with your grasshopper attitude you refuse to address them, instead you take 1 verse here and 1 there and jump back in to claim victory grin

frosbel:
Jesus is referred to as Lord and not God in this quoted scripture , so you got this one right and at least this proves that this verse cannot be used to support the doctrine of Trinity.
Somebody is speaking , guess who it is , Lord Almighty God or Jehovah.
2 statements were made here .
1. I am sending my messenger, and he will prepare the way before me - John the baptist
2. Then the Lord you are seeking will suddenly come to his Temple. - Jesus Christ

If you had taken the time to check a lexicon rather than jump to conclusions as you are apt to do , maybe you would have noticed that the 2 Lords mentioned represent two distinct titles

The first Lord which refers to Christ means :

הָאָדֹ֣ון

113 'adown aw-done' or (shortened) adon {aw-done'}; from an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, i.e. controller (human or divine):-- lord, master, owner. Compare also names beginning with "Adoni-".

The second Lord who was speaking refer to Almighty God and means :

יְהוָ֥ה

3068 Yhovah yeh-ho-vaw' from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

Judges , rulers and kings were referred to as Lords in the bible, so the presence of Lord in scripture is not an indication that the person referred to is God or Christ.

When I have some time today, I will dissect the logic of your other comment.

frosbel: God of course, Yahweh, no ?

aletheia:

Below is the post in question. Show me the "hundreds of verses". You quoted from a lexicon.

[quote author=aletheia]
^
Really? Matt 10:28 and that one that you dislike so much, Luke 16.

Tangential and of no bearing. So which part of Man is appetitive, rational and spirited? Why don't you tell us then? I get a sense you are only just repeating something barely understood. This has no bearing whatsoever to what is taught in the Bible.

Gnosticism considers the body to be evil, that the universe was created by a demiurge and that God is so far removed as to be almost unknowable. . .and that Christ was an emanation from God.

aletheia:
Your post is disjointed and chaotic in terms of organization. Why is it that you are most coherent only when you are cutting-and-pasting others' articles?
I repeat. . .you are a hypocrite. You appealed to the Hebrew lexicon and yet when others do so you accuse them of trying to appear "a step above the others intellectually." Your own words indict you --- self-righteous Pharisee:



You are dishonest and lazy. . .hence you avoid the main issue raised and go after red herrings. Typical debating tactic! The main thrust of your argument is simply that in Malachi 3:1-3 since adon clearly refers to Jesus Christ, it cannot then be referring to Jehovah. I simply pointed out to you and others who may be reading that adon is used of Jehovah several times in the OT, even providing an example from Micah (or don't you understand what the words "for example" in my post mean?).


Obviously you are afraid of what the scriptures clearly say. . .and we are at liberty to quote from Genesis to Revelation for the whole scriptures testify of Jesus.

Tell us frosbel in Isa 6:1. . .which Lord is sitting on the throne?
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isa 6:1

I repeat my question to you:


. . .but of course you will go haring off at another tangent since you wont be able to find an article to cut-and-paste in response

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is Elohim.

Elohim is a Hebrew name that is used of God 2,570 times in the Old Testament. The name literally means "strong one," and its plural ending (im in Hebrew) indicates fullness of power. Elohim is portrayed in the Old Testament as the powerful and sovereign governor of the universe, ruling over the affairs of humankind.

Jesus is recognised as both Yahweh and Elohim in the prophecy in Isaiah 40:3:

"Prepare the way of the Lord [Yahweh]; make straight in the desert a highway for our God [Elohim]."

This verse was written in reference to John the Baptist preparing for the coming of Christ (as confirmed in John 1:23) and represents one of the strongest affirmations of Christ's deity in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 9:6, we likewise read a prophecy of Christ with a singular variant (El) of Elohim:

"And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God [El], Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

OLAADEGBU:

Jesus is Theos.

The New Testament Greek word for God, Theos, is the corresponding parallel to the Old Testament Hebrew term Elohim. A well-known example of Christ being addressed as God (Theos) is found in the story of "doubting Thomas" in John 20. In this passage, Thomas witnesses the resurrected Christ and worshipfully responds: "My Lord and my God [Theos]" (John 20:28 ).

Jesus is called Theos throughout the rest of the New Testament. For example, when a jailer asked Paul and Silas how to be saved, they responded: "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household" (Acts 16:31). After the jailer believed and became saved, he "rejoiced, having believed in God [Theos] with all his household" (verse 34). Believing in Christ and believing in God are seen as identical acts.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab2/is-jesus-god

frosbel: . . .God is so far removed as to be almost unknowable. . .is exactly what the Trinity is , now you know where the mysterious madness called Trinity came from.

A fanatic is a man who consciously over compensates a secret doubt.

One such Gnostic, Cerinthus, took the teachings of pagan Gnosticism and mixed them with Christianity. Cerinthus also proclaimed that "Christ" was the aeon (a lesser god) who made the earth

Demiurge or Nous

The original Being initially emanates, or throws out, the nous, which is a perfect image of the One and the archetype of all existing things. It is simultaneously both being and thought, idea and ideal world. As image, the nous corresponds perfectly to the One, but as derivative, it is entirely different. What Plotinus understands by the nous is the highest sphere accessible to the human mind, while also being pure intellect itself. As nous is the most critical component of idealism, Neoplatonism being a pure form of idealism.[10][11] The demiurge (the nous) is the energy, or ergon (does the work), that manifests or organizes the material world into perceivability.

[quote author=aletheia].

Your confusion and trajectory is evident. Clearly you don't know what you believe any more. Poor frosbel, having taken on atheists and Muslims in debate from a faulty foundation, they so ran riot over you and sowed seeds of doubt, that your overcompensation for your secret doubts is plain to see. Need I remind you again:

Even in the very presence of the Risen Lord Jesus --- it is written that some doubted like you. But we who did not see and believe that Jesus is he are indeed blessed.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Joh 20:28-29

So you say: "God is so far removed as to be almost unknowable is exactly what the Trinity is. . .

But plainly this is not true for it is established that:
1. In the beginning was the Word.
2. The Word was with God
3. The Word was God.
4. The Word became flesh.
5. In Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
6. He who has seen Jesus has seen the Father.

So indeed the historical truth of the faith delivered to the saints is that God revealed Himself to His children through Jesus Christ of Nazareth who is God manifest in the flesh. You are right in using the word mystery though it is unfortunate that you blaspheme by conjoining it with the word madness. Only God can help you,; turn to him in repentance, but will your self-righteous pride allow you?

Your contradictory beliefs are actually neo-Platonism and Gnosticism repackaged. . .though you tried to deflect attention by claiming that it is us not you who are gnostics. Here are two key beliefs of yours:
1. Frosbel believes that Jesus is a mighty god.

Of course seeing as you cannot deny or remove even from the watered down bible translations all scriptures that show the Deity of Jesus, you resort to playing footloose with words in order to try to square the circle. Now we know plainly from scripture that there is only One True God. . .meaning that any so-called lesser or other god is a false god. . .thus you try to undermine Jesus to a rank of false god.

aletheia: .

Your confusion and trajectory is evident. Clearly you don't know what you believe any more. Poor frosbel, having taken on atheists and Muslims in debate from a faulty foundation, they so ran riot over you and sowed seeds of doubt, that your overcompensation for your secret doubts is plain to see. Need I remind you again:


Even in the very presence of the Risen Lord Jesus --- it is written that some doubted like you. But we who did not see and believe that Jesus is he are indeed blessed.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Joh 20:28-29

In your peregrinations and tempestuous wanderings, you did not see Thomas' confession?

So you say: "God is so far removed as to be almost unknowable is exactly what the Trinity is. . .

But plainly this is not true for it is established that:
1. In the beginning was the Word.
2. The Word was with God
3. The Word was God.
4. The Word became flesh.
5. In Him dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily
6. He who has seen Jesus has seen the Father.

So indeed the historical truth of the faith delivered to the saints is that God revealed Himself to His children through Jesus Christ of Nazareth who is God manifest in the flesh. You are right in using the word mystery though it is unfortunate that you blaspheme by conjoining it with the word madness. Only God can help you,; turn to him in repentance, but will your self-righteous pride allow you?

Your contradictory beliefs are actually neo-Platonism and Gnosticism repackaged. . .though you tried to deflect attention by claiming that it is us not you who are gnostics. Here are two key beliefs of yours:
1. Frosbel believes that Jesus is a mighty god.

Of course seeing as you cannot deny or remove even from the watered down bible translations all scriptures that show the Deity of Jesus, you resort to playing footloose with words in order to try to square the circle. Now we know plainly from scripture that there is only One True God. . .meaning that any so-called lesser or other god is a false god. . .thus you try to undermine Jesus to a rank of false god.

So it is seen just exactly the gnostic root of your "Jesus is a mighty god" belief.

2. Frosbel believes that the Word of God in John 1.1 was just a notion, a plan or a thought which only took on embodiment when Jesus was born
In this you echo the neo-Platonists concept of nous:


Readers can judge therefore between you and I whose stated beliefs are Gnostic &c.

To my brothers in Christ, consider and remember this words:

That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:2-6

Ihedinobi:


The advent of frosbel teaches that we are limited in possession of the Spirit and must remain conscious of the fact. Only One is given the Spirit without measure, and He is Jesus Christ. The rest of us possess the Spirit in measure and therefore can only come into the fullness together with all the saints, not alone.

The instant we begin to throw off the necessity we have for other believers, to learn through them as well, we begin frosbel's journey.

Daily Manna
04.10.12

A Perfect Unity

TEXT: JOHN 5:17-31

"Then Jesus answered and said to them, Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner" (John 5:19).

It is common knowledge that most people believe in the existence of God. They differ however in the mode of fellowship with Him. While some worship inanimate objects, others commune with either angels or notable old testament characters. But the scripture is clear in that God gave His only begotten Son (Jesus).

Our text reveals a deep truth in the relationship between God and Jesus Christ. The divine Father - Son relationship is a perfect model of unity in plurality of persons. Jesus claims equality with God in works, resurrection power, judgment, honour, giving eternal life, self-existence, deed and power over death and destiny. As God has made all things including the Sabbath, so is Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath. God has committed all things into the hands of Jesus. Why then would men confess the power of God and yet deny Christ, His Son? The Scriptures say unto Him belong all power; authority and dominion. It would not be logical to confess the power of God and at the same time disregard the Lordship of Christ, who is the power of God unto salvation. God has given us His Son Jesus, that all things may be done and fulfilled through Him. He manifests the mercy, love, righteousness, justice and nature of God. Our aspirations can then be fulfilled in Him because the Father "sheweth Him all things that Himself doeth . . ." (vs. 20).

The spiritually dead in sin can receive life because Christ has life to give. Those who hear His voice and receive Him are translated from the depth of sin to the life of righteousness. They face no more condemnation but everlasting life. Let us live to honour Christ and not despise Him. We are called to keep His commandment and do His will. To despise Him is to reject God. The Psalmist affirms in Psalm 9:17 "The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the nations that forget God." It is time to accept Him as the Son of God.

Thought for the day: "Knowing God is believing in Christ Jesus"

For Details . . .

Ravi Zacharias addresses a packed audience at Penn State University and answers a question about the law of non-contradiction and the Trinity