frosbel:


I know.

My understanding of your position is that Jesus was an angel , which is something I disagree with.

Let us use the other article to discuss.

Thank You

truthislight:

i dont think that micah 5:2 said anything about angel.

If you wish that we discuss about angel michael why not just opened a thread to that effect rather than tying it to my quoting of micah 5:2?

frosbel:


Wow !!!


This is your answer


God asked us to reason together with him, not just accept anything that is put out there as fact !


"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. ................" - Isaiah 1:18a

Isaiah 41:21 "Present your case," says the LORD. "Set forth your arguments," says Jacob's King.


Even the Bereans checked up Paul's doctrines.


Acts 17:11 NIV
New International Version
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.



But according to you and deeperlife , we should not check it up, we should just accept it because the church leaders said it , no ?


The church leaders just like the pope are infallible , they cannot err in doctrine , no ?


Are we not then following the commands of men, if we refuse to validate the claims of our creeds and church doctrines against biblical truth ?

"teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." - Matthew 15:9b

OLAADEGBU:

I asked you to tell us who was speaking in the passage I quoted and you went on a tangent totally evading the kweshun. Here is the passage again, tell us who you think was speaking there:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty . . . Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia . . . " (Rev. 1:8, 11).

Fr0sbel:

You ignored my own question , but I will humbly answer yours.


Let us start with verse 4 and 5a :

4 John,To the seven churches in the province of Asia:Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

1. Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come
2. and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead


Here we see a clear distinction made by John between our beloved Father who is, and who was, and who is to come and Jesus Christ our Lord faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead





Now let us moved to verse 5b to 7b

"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever ! Amen.7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him,even those who pierced him”; "

1. Him who loved us and has freed us from our sins by his blood - This obviously refers to Lord Jesus
2. made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever

Here again we see a clear distinction between Father God Almighty and Lord Jesus Christ. God is even called the God of our Lord Jesus.



Finally to your point your verse quoted is not referring to Christ Jesus but Almighty GOD.

Compare 4a to 8a.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Please read the bible with your lenses and not that of deeper life.


Blessings.

Fr0sbel:

You ignored my own question , but I will humbly answer yours.


Let us start with verse 4 and 5a :

4 John,To the seven churches in the province of Asia:Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

1. Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come
2. and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead


Here we see a clear distinction made by John between our beloved Father who is, and who was, and who is to come and Jesus Christ our Lord faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead





Now let us moved to verse 5b to 7b

"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever ! Amen.7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him,even those who pierced him”; "

1. Him who loved us and has freed us from our sins by his blood - This obviously refers to Lord Jesus
2. made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever

Here again we see a clear distinction between Father God Almighty and Lord Jesus Christ. God is even called the God of our Lord Jesus.



Finally to your point your verse quoted is not referring to Christ Jesus but Almighty GOD.

Compare 4a to 8a.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Please read the bible with your lenses and not that of deeper life.


Blessings.

1:8 Alpha and Omega. There are the first words actually spoken to John by the Lord on this great occasion. Alpha and Omega are the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet, the Lord thereby claiming that He embodies all language and, in fact, all reality. He is “the Word” (John 1:1), embodying “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Colossians 2:3). He also claims to be the Eternal One and the Omnipotent One. A more definitive claim to absolute deity, made by the glorified Lord Jesus in reference to Himself, could hardly be imagined.

Fr0sbel:

Finally to your point your verse quoted is not referring to Christ Jesus but Almighty GOD.

Compare 4a to 8a.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Please read the bible with your lenses and not that of deeper life.


Blessings.

Those Who Depart
September 12, 2012

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (1 John 2:19).

One of the most hurtful experiences in the life of a Biblebelieving fellowship is when an ostensibly Christian leader, teacher, or pastor decides to abandon his faith and even to teach against it. This sort of thing does happen all too often, and it obviously raises difficult questions.

Can a true believer, a teacher of the Word, a soul-winner, actually lose his salvation? Can a born-again Christian go back and be unborn? Can one who has received everlasting life through faith in Christ not really have eternal life?

If so, what about the many promises which have assured us that "ye may know that ye have eternal life" (1 John 5:13) and that we "shall never perish" (John 10:28 )?

The answer to this vexing question is apparently in our text verse above. When such people, who once seemed to be genuine Christians become apostates, denouncing the truth they once taught, it is because "they were not of us" at all, no matter what they professed at one time.

This fact implies a sober warning. When professing Christians fall away, assuming they have truly understood the facts and evidences of the Christian faith, it is impossible "to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame" (Hebrews 6:6).

How important it is, therefore, for all professing believers to "give diligence to make your calling and election sure" (2 Peter 1:10). We must be "rooted and built up in him" (Colossians 2:7), "ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear" (1 Peter 3:15). HMM

For more . . . .

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that JW's are supporting you is only making your case worse. You better learn from respectable bible scholars as in the commentary posted below:

Revelation 1:8

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."



This verse confirms the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. You will only see it if you allow the Holy Spirit to interprete His Word to your teachable heart and then you will not fall into the hands of the wolves that parade themselves as bible teachers.

OLAADEGBU:

If I where you I will read this article to be sure that it does not apply to me. You said that you were a member of Deeper Life Bible Church for several years and you are spuewing this many errors since you left the church?

OLAADEGBU:

The fact that JW's are supporting you is only making your case worse. You better learn from respectable bible scholars as in the commentary posted below:

This verse confirms the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ. You will only see it if you allow the Holy Spirit to interprete His Word to your teachable heart and then you will not fall into the hands of the wolves that parade themselves as bible teachers.

frosbel:

Funny enough I do not believe ALL the JWs hold as doctrine , such as Jesus was an angel and all the blood transfusion stuff etc, but I can tell you that they have got many key doctrines right that some churches in their arrogance have missed.

So even though the word of GOD clearly states the facts I described in my previous post, you are still holding on to a false doctrine.

You might as well join the Catholics, you believe in about 60% of their false teachings.

My dear Pharisee brother , slow down, pride leads to more confusion.

OLAADEGBU:

Consider the biblical verses below:

"For unto which of the angels said He at any time," "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?" And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to me a Son?"[/i][/size] "And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, He saith," "And let all the angels of God worship Him."[/b] -- Hebrews 1:5-6

And

[size=12pt]"And Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God" -- John 20:28

With the verses above, can you sincerely say that Jesus is not God and if you say yes then:

Why would God the Father tell His angels to worship Jesus? I believe you are aware that it is only God that we are commanded to worship.

Why did Thomas call Jesus "My Lord and my God" and Jesus did not rebuke Him for calling just a man God?

Answer these questions if not here but in your heart and come to the conviction of the truth that will make you free from all the erroneous fallacies that has been projected from the pit of hell.

Fr0sbel:

I am done arguing with you on this matter.

You hold on to your doctrine , God knows those who are his.

This is what happens when one belongs to a cult, they hold on to the church creeds more that the word of GOD.

OLAADEGBU:

Let the Bible speak by itself. Let us revisit Micah 5:2 again.

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose going forth have been from of old, from everlasting (Micah 5:2).

This was one of the passages that helped the magi to trace Jesus to Bethlehem when they came to inquire from king Herod, and the last phrase highlighted above shows that Jesus Christ was preexistent, not just in the mind of God, as you have been led to believe. He was incarnated in Bethlehem but was preexistent from before time began. In His incarnated form He did not assume all of His glory in heaven as He was limited here on earth, which was His choice to empty Himself of the glory He shared with the Father and to humble Himself as a Son so as to make us to become sons and daughters of God. On occasions He, especially during His earthly ministry assumed the glory of God just as was at the mount of transfiguration where He appeared in glory but soon changed back to His human form.

Fr0sbel:


You rely too much on the interpretations of others, let us use our own anointing to decipher scripture.


Going forth means coming from or come out from as in ORIGIN.


Origin , Origin and Origin.


The WORD originated from the Father from GOD.


GOD is the Origin.

OLAADEGBU:

It is simple English that I don't need your anointing to interprete it. It says His going forth, has been from old, from everlasting.

Lets compare what the Scripture says about the Father and the Son in the verses below:

Of the Father it says that He is the beginning and the end:

"He who is seated on the throne said "Behold, I make all things new" And he said unto me, "Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." (Revelation 21:5-7).

In Revelation 22:12,13, Jesus (see 22:16) says that He is also the beginning and the end:

"Behold I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

So you can see here that Jesus clearly shows that He is God by saying things about Himself that only God can say about Himself.

frosbel:

Did you have to miss out verse 6

frosbel:

John and the Angel

6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God who inspires the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”

and then GOD speaks

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Then Christ speaks

6 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

Jesus called himself the Root and the Offspring of David

God calls himself the Alpha and the Omega

frosbel:

Mate drop that trinity pagan doctrine, you will confuse yourself and others.

frosbel:

God calls himself the Alpha and the Omega

OLAADEGBU: Daily Manna

Neither Add Nor Subtract
31.3.11

TEXT: Revelation 22:18–21

"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18,19).

Jeramiah Giehl could not have been more fortunate as he recounted his salvation experience to one religious organization, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry (CARM). Formerly a member of Jehovah’s Witnesses, Giehl, who had, at age 12, read the Bible two and half times, knew something was absolutely amiss with the religion of his upbringing. He could not understand why his former organization never believed in Trinity but denied the divinity of Jesus and brush aside scripture passages which clearly emphasize Jesus as God and co-eternal with the Father.

Giehl was one out of millions who are victims of addition and subtraction from the scripture. Many pastors and preachers do not only take the scripture out of context, but also read into it extra information, thus, misleading people into some untruth.

Our text states clearly that God would add plagues to those who add to scripture while those who subtract from the same would have their names taken "out of the book of life".

It is dangerous to exploit the scriptures to suit individual whims. The totality of the scripture must be read and believed. Its basis clearly transcends intellectual, mental and academic frontiers. The Bible is all about God’s plan of salvation for man which is available to all.

Avoid using the Bible to suit personal prejudices. Take it as sacred and refrain from adding to or subtracting from it. Those who do so will never be held guiltless by God.

Thought for the day: "He who mutilates God’s word, deliberately enrage Him"

For Details . . .

Rich4god: @Ola... Abeg, leave frosbel alone, he has already locked up his mind and has refused to learn. What do you think of someone who told me that there is a (punctuation) mistake in the bible just to prove his point.

One God
March 5, 2011

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

This great verse has been recited countless times by Israelites down through the centuries, setting forth their distinctive belief in one great Creator God. The Jews had retained their original belief in creation, handed down from Noah, while the other nations had all allowed their original monotheistic creationism to degenerate into a wide variety of religions, all basically equivalent to the polytheistic evolutionism of the early Sumerians at Babel.

But along with its strong assertion of monotheism, there is also a very real suggestion that this declaration, with its thrice-named subject, is also setting forth the Triune God. The name, "Lord," of course, is Yahweh, or Jehovah, the self-existing One who reveals Himself, while "God" is Elohim, the powerful Creator/Ruler. "Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah" is the proclamation. A number of respected Jewish commentators have acknowledged that the verse spoke of a "unified oneness," rather than an "absolute oneness." The revered book called the Zohar, for example, even said that the first mention was of the Father; the second one the Messiah; and the third, the Holy Spirit.

The key word "one" (Hebrew, achad) is often used to denote unity in diversity. For example, when Eve was united to Adam in marriage, they were said to be "one flesh" (Genesis 2:24). Similarly, on the third day of creation, the waters were "gathered together unto one place," yet this gathering together was called "Seas" (i.e., more than one sea; Genesis 1:9-10).

Thus, Israel's great declaration should really be understood as saying in effect: "The eternally omnipresent Father, also Creator and Sustainer of all things, is our unified self-revealing Lord." HMM

For more . . . .

OLAADEGBU:

Let the Bible speak by itself. Let us revisit Micah 5:2 again.

"But thou, Beth-lehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose going forth have been from of old, from everlasting (Micah 5:2).

This was one of the passages that helped the magi to trace Jesus to Bethlehem when they came to inquire from king Herod, and the last phrase highlighted above shows that Jesus Christ was preexistent, not just in the mind of God, as you have been led to believe. He was incarnated in Bethlehem but was preexistent from before time began. In His incarnated form He did not assume all of His glory in heaven as He was limited here on earth, which was His choice to empty Himself of the glory He shared with the Father and to humble Himself as a Son so as to make us to become sons and daughters of God. On occasions He, especially during His earthly ministry assumed the glory of God just as was at the mount of transfiguration where He appeared in glory but soon changed back to His human form.

Rich4god:

@Truthslight... You said Ola's posting is suffering from TRANSLATION CAUSE. How did you get your own translation since he is quoting from a bible that christians recognise.

OLAADEGBU:

Good point. Maybe he expects me to quote from his NWT that mistranslated John 1:1 that the Word was a god that frosbel is banding about.

The Firstborn of Every Creature
March 2, 2011

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature." (Colossians 1:15)

A widespread cult heresy based on this verse claims that Jesus Christ was not eternal, but merely the first being created--perhaps an angel--before becoming a man. Note, however, that the verse does not say He was the "first created of every creature," but the "first born of every creature," and there is a big difference. In fact, the very next verse says that "by him were all things created" (v. 16). He was never created, for He Himself is the Creator. "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3).

He is "born" of God, not "made," the "only begotten Son" of God (John 3:16). "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him" (John 1:18). The eternal Father is omnipresent, and therefore invisible, inaudible, inaccessible to the physical senses. The eternally existing Son is the "image" of the invisible Father, the One who declares, reveals, embodies His essence. Although He is always "in the bosom of the Father," yet He is eternally also "the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person" (Hebrews 1:3). He is the eternal, living Word, which was "in the beginning with God" (John 1:2), and which "was God" (John 1:1).

Thus the phrase "firstborn of every creature" in our text can be translated literally as "begotten before all creation." The eternal inter-relationship of the Persons of the Godhead is beyond human comprehension in its fullness, and the terms, "Son" and "begotten" are the best human language can do to describe it. Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, is the only begotten, eternally generated, Son of the Father, forever shining forth as the image of the otherwise invisible God. HMM

For more . . . .