This Is Not Fornication, Or Is It?

You are engaged to a fine lady that means the world to you,the big Church wedding is set for Christmas time. The traditional wedding (or a court wedding) is performed in August and her people finally hand her over to the groom according to customs. As Christians can the man and woman begin to enjoy each other in spite of the fact that they've not wedded in Church?

No they cannot begin to chop themselves. Until the marriage is blessed IN A CHURCH before God and man, the traditional thingy is not valid at least from a biblical stand point.

Just my oppinion.

I have sinned

_kidding

davidylan:

No they cannot begin to chop themselves. Until the marriage is blessed IN A CHURCH before God and man, the traditional thingy is not valid at least from a biblical stand point.

Just my oppinion.

But most Christians have preachers bless their union in the traditional marriage ceremony too.
We had a powerful preacher and even altar call in mine.
The best Christian band from Aba was there and choirs from 2 churches came dressed in their robes and sang special numbers.
The only difference was that I was not in a white gown and he was not in suit
I felt married after the ceremony so why couldn't we chop?

I know we Christians have that rule but I don't know why we say so.

+osisi:

The only difference was that I was not in a white gown and he was not in suit
I felt married after the ceremony so why couldn't we chop?

just a question though, if you already felt married then why go ahead with the white wedding?
Again just my humble oppinion, the white wedding (at least for a christian couple) is a testament to the world that both have kept themselves pure before God and man up until that day.

Maybe traditional marriages have changed as in the old days it was just a custom without pastors and altar calls.

davidylan:

just a question though, if you already felt married then why go ahead with the white wedding? Again just my humble oppinion, the white wedding (at least for a christian couple) is a testament to the world that both have kept themselves pure before God and man up until that day.

Maybe traditional marriages have changed as in the old days it was just a custom without pastors and altar calls.

I ask the same question.
I think it's just because that is the norm
It's such a waste of money.

My dear it has o
Even funerals now have altar calls.
Things have changed.
We had our traditional on a Wednesday and wedded on Saturday the same week,talk about feeding the multitude for days.
We Nigerians sabi waste

I'm sure I'm not the only Christian asking why it is considered fornication to chop after the court or traditional wedding

Even if the trad thing was done with much glamour and with priests and what have you.
My dear sis it was not done in the church which is the house of God.
As dave said ur white attire shows purity.
If u feel that getting down is ok for u.
Then no qualms all u gats do is just to go get a milk wedding gown.
So so that is all i think i gats say for now.

@ last post
I know sha but anyways that would make one marry asap

My parents are yet to do their white wedding

and they ve been married for over 30 yrs

so are you gonna tell me , they have been fornicating

and all six kids are bastards!

i dont think so!

God recognises all legal institutions

So you dontt have to dress up in white before you know your gettiing married!

There is a reason we have the white wedding . . .
the problem is that it has been so devalued over time that people no longer understand its spiritual significance. Atheists now get married in white wedding gowns in chapel halls, even muslims have since joined the bandwagon.

Until we are joined in the household of faith in the presence of God and the brethren i dont consider myself married even if i had a traditional wedding. Neither of my uncles were allowed to go home with their wives after the traditional marriage. Everyone had to go stay with family members until the white wedding proper.

If you have paid the bride price to her parents, and the family has recognised you as their in-law. You are traditionally/customarily allowed to put you smartcard into her decoder.
If you do it the legal way i.e through the court, in the presence of witnesses {usually the parents}, that means you are legally allowed to card into her ATM.
If you go to church (N/B; A church permitted by law to perform wedding ceremonies and give out legally recognised certificate), this means you are now spiritually and legally allowed to put your sim in her phone.

Simply cos u have not done the white wedding does not make the union a sin before God. White weddings most times are just a formality or a chance for the union to be blessed by the church. The day the bride price is paid, you are now husband and wife.

Esss:

Simply because u have not done the white wedding does not make the union a sin before God. White weddings most times are just a formality or a chance for the union to be blessed by the church. The day the bride price is paid, you are now husband and wife.

lol oh how so subtly the world has succeeded in watering down God's own rules. It is not the white wedding perse but its spiritual significance that makes it absolutely important.
White weddings are not a formality, they are the outward offering of our bodies in Holy Union to Christ Himself.
Christ likens the relationship between a man and his wife to that between Him and the church . . . to trivialise that process of joining oneself to his wife as a "legal" matter or "mere formality" or a chance to pay bride price is not right.

God does not recognise a "legal" declaration of salvation . . . even if you file an affidavit to that effect at the UN world court.

Gamine:

My parents are yet to do their white wedding

and they ve been married for over 30 years

[b]so are you going to tell me , they have been fornicating

and all six kids are bastards![/b]i don't think so!

God recognises all legal institutions

So you dontt have to dress up in white before you know your gettiing married!

Not at all.
If they publicly declared themselves as married legally,they are now husband and wife

davidylan:

lol oh how so subtly the world has succeeded in watering down God's own rules. It is not the white wedding perse but its spiritual significance that makes it absolutely important.
White weddings are not a formality, they are the outward offering of our bodies in Holy Union to Christ Himself.
Christ likens the relationship between a man and his wife to that between Him and the church . . . to trivialise that process of joining oneself to his wife as a "legal" matter or "mere formality" or a chance to pay bride price is not right.

God does not recognise a "legal" declaration of salvation . . . even if you file an affidavit to that effect at the UN world court.

But David where is the ruling that a man and woman must first come into a church to be declared married.
I know that's what we do but where is the express instruction to do so?
When Isaac took Rebecca and Jacob took Leah and Rachel,what we saw were gifts exchanged and that night they knew themselves.
The marriage at Cana,we have no record that a priest joined the couple or the woman wore white,all we read about was a feast.
Many areas in the Bible talk about a man taking a wife so I believe whatever legal means a man uses to dclare a woman his wife should suffice.

In the parable of the virgins where Christ was teaching on a heavenly principle using earthly example,we hear of a banquet when the bridegroom arrives.

I'm not saying the so called white wedding is insignificant,all I'm saying is that it may just be a ceremony that we are used to and that it's the standard.
The exchange of rings,wedding vows,wearing a white flowing garment and all that is just what we made up ourselves as a rule.
[b]I believe for Christians,biblically speaking,a crowd of witnesses,blessings from the parents and a man or men of God is in order but I won't dare say that those who did not go into the four walls of a building called a church are unmarried what about those who marry by the beach with a minister?[/b]Please someone should correct me with biblical references,I am always eager to learn what I don't know.

@osisi


i cant but help myself laugh,

+osisi:

Not at all.
If they publicly declared themselves as married legally,they are now husband and wife

i agree wit you tot pattern that church or no church, as long as both accept and are committed to it, parents have agreed and sought for pastors blessing i dont think anything is wrong with dat, as ess said

Esss:

If you have paid the bride price to her parents, and the family has recognised you as their in-law. You are traditionally/customarily allowed to put you smartcard into her decoder.
If you do it the legal way i.e through the court, in the presence of witnesses {usually the parents}, that means you are legally allowed to card into her ATM.
If you go to church (N/B; A church permitted by law to perform wedding ceremonies and give out legally recognised certificate), this means you are now spiritually and legally allowed to put your sim in her phone.

Simply because u have not done the white wedding does not make the union a sin before God. White weddings most times are just a formality or a chance for the union to be blessed by the church. The day the bride price is paid, you are now husband and wife.

well that is how i feel , oh

davidylan:

No they cannot begin to chop themselves. Until the marriage is blessed IN A CHURCH before God and man, the traditional thingy is not valid at least from a biblical stand point.

Lol. . . @davidylan,

Yes and No - your submission here is either way. From a "biblical stand point", the traditional thingy is not valid. But so does the traditionalist argue, because from his own "stand point", the CHURCH thingy is NOT valid!

This thread has kept us chatty in the office (break time). Trust us women, our mouths talk this and that! Someone silenced the rest of us when he finally asked (after a long silence, listening to us):

Abeg una well-well, which Church did Abraham wed Sarah before im own valid?

He just smiled and promptly left the staff room!

What happens to the people who just decide to have a "church blessing" as it is called?

You are engaged to a fine lady that means the world to you,the big Church wedding is set for Christmas time.
The traditional wedding (or a court wedding) is performed in August and her people finally hand her over to the groom according to customs.
As  Christians can the man and woman begin to enjoy each other inspite of the fact that they've not wedded in Church.

In my own opinion, I think coming together of Man and woman ordained by God must have the consent of Parents.  The white Wedding thing I think is the culture of the White that introduced Christianity to us.

I want us to mark the word "Consent of Parents".  Permit me to say this people decided to make things complicated because they love some ceremonial aspect of a particular method.  Some also because they like to display wealth they choose all the method available to Marrige. After all the mariage attended by Christ was not describe as being White one. And I don't think there is anywhere in the bible that provide a particular order of engament between man and woman.

@ poster, You have your Parents (Wife and Husband) consent? and that is suppose to be your Traditional.  I will just like to tell you that you are the one making life more complicated for yourself.  You could have decided on one of the three available methods.  

But I am not God to Judge anybody.  the Bible says if your Conscience does not condemn  you,

You have been eating the yam anyway
Love your wife! keep eating the yam   In my own opinion you are not a fornicator except you may ask for  pardon if you have been eatingf the yam before the  

dafidixone:

In my own opinion, I think coming together of Man and woman ordained by God must have the consent of Parents. The white Wedding thing I think is the culture of the White that introduced Christianity to us.

I want us to mark the word "Consent of Parents". Permit me to say this people decided to make things complicated because they love some ceremonial aspect of a particular method. Some also because they like to display wealth they choose all the method available to Marrige. After all the mariage attended by Christ was not describe as being White one. And I don't think there is anywhere in the bible that provide a particular order of engament between man and woman.

@ poster, You have your Parents (Wife and Husband) consent? and that is suppose to be your Traditional. I will just like to tell you that you are the one making life more complicated for yourself. You could have decided on one of the three available methods.

But I am not God to Judge anybody. the Bible says if your Conscience does not condemn you,

You have been eating the yam anyway
Love your wife! keep eating the yam In my own opinion you are not a fornicator except you may ask for pardon if you have been eatingf the yam before the

I am female and the scenario I created is not about me but most Christians are faced with that situation constantly.
My own "waiting period" was only 3 days thank God and after my traditional,I did ride home with my husbands people but my mother in law insisted I sleep in her room,she is a Holy Ghost filled woman and did not want any mago mago in her home before the white wedding.

I only posted this topic because,I've always thought about it and wondered if those who actually did sleep together were fornicating and my answer seems to be NO.

Let start with this question, What is marriage?
I am going to give a biblical defination Gen 2:23-24.

To me so far the two families are involved and the wife's parent hands her over to the husband they are married.
Even the church (Most churches i Know) can't marry two people without the two parents in agreement.
The church is for blessing and also to involve the spiritual family.
So there si no sin involved.

Even the church wedding is void without a court notice,

Let people respond first.

Even the church wedding is void without a court notice,

What i mean here (before i am torn to pieces) is that as proof of marriage u can't just give the church name without a court thing it won't be legal in (my country sha)

I am female and the scenario I created is not about me but most Christians are faced with that situation constantly.

Follow Christ and not People.

Laws were made because of Man and not Man because of Law.

My dear Sister Just understand your relationship with God let the dead bury themslves

Happy Married Life

i have a very valid question in this scenario; what makes up the church? the building or the people? bear in mind that we are God's temple not some whitewashed building! afterall, the temple wey fine pass any church wey dey Naija today where na God dem for dey worship, wetin Jesus talk about am? no be say dem go destroy am him talk? abegi make we learn to think with our heads following wetin the Bible talk and not some rubbish some Pastors and 'churches' feed us. why do we have brains for Christ's sake!

now am beginning to get confused

@pilgrim1,

Yes and No - your submission here is either way. From a "biblical stand point", the traditional thingy is not valid. But so does the traditionalist argue, because from his own "stand point", the CHURCH thingy is NOT valid!

This thread has kept us chatty in the office (break time). Trust us women, our mouths talk this and that!  Someone silenced the rest of us when he finally asked (after a long silence, listening to us):

       Abeg una well-well, which Church did Abraham wed Sarah before im own valid?

He just smiled and promptly left the staff room!

Which one be di yes and no now? The word of God is yes and by us the Amen is spoken.

To those who believe that the marriage is only recognised by God when done in a church, does that mean all married unbelievers who have never stepped in a church are fornicators? Absolutely not.

The important thing in marriage is that the one in authority hands over the authority to another. In this instance, a man leaves and is removed from the authority of his parents, and the woman's parents hand her over to the man. That is why Genesis tells us that a man must leave his father and mother. As for the woman, we saw God bringing and handing over Eve to Adam, thus relinquishing his fatherly authority to Eve. When this two are done, a marriage has taken place.

Tayo-D:

The important thing in marriage is that the one in authority hands over the authority to another. In this instance, a man leaves and is removed from the authority of his parents, and the woman's parents hand her over to the man. That is why Genesis tells us that a man must leave his father and mother. As for the woman, we saw God bringing and handing over Eve to Adam, thus relinquishing his fatherly authority to Eve. When this two are done, a marriage has taken place.

Oga Tayo-D, i was typing out a piece in my defence when someone logged me out mistakenly. Now that i have read this piece i am better educated on this matter.

Tayo-D:

@pilgrim1,
Which one be di yes and no now? The word of God is yes and by us the Amen is spoken.

To those who believe that the marriage is only recognised by God when done in a church, does that mean all married unbelievers who have never stepped in a church are fornicators? Absolutely not.

The important thing in marriage is that the one in authority hands over the authority to another. In this instance, a man leaves and is removed from the authority of his parents, and the woman's parents hand her over to the man. That is why Genesis tells us that a man must leave his father and mother. As for the woman, we saw God bringing and handing over Eve to Adam, thus relinquishing his fatherly authority to Eve. When this two are done, a marriage has taken place.

My brother I had the same question in mind.
Am I more married than a woman whose parents accepted a few thousands of naira,bottles of schnapps and kegs of palmy and sent their daughter on her way?

davidylan:

Oga Tayo-D, i was typing out a piece in my defence when someone logged me out mistakenly. Now that i have read this piece i am better educated on this matter.

You see david,all you need is for a man to dash his daughter to you and before we can say Jack Robinson,belle don begin protrude

+osisi:

You see david,all you need is for a man to dash his daughter to you and before we can say Jack Robinson,belle don begin protrude

My sister, no be so o. We must enjoy madam first before pikin begin to appear abi.

Back to topic, Tayo-D's post opened my eyes to see things a different way. But why is it a tradition that young married couples especially in nigeria are not allowed to sleep together before the white wedding even after the traditional?

davidylan:

Back to topic, Tayo-D's post opened my eyes to see things a different way. But why is it a tradition that young married couples especially in nigeria are not allowed to sleep together before the white wedding even after the traditional?

which nigeria are you talking about? the same nigeria wey dem born me? where bobos de mount the babes 5yrs b4 the babe parents even sabi say the bobo de exist?
abegi

for my villa, as the traditional wedding de finish, na so de dude de carry the babe waka. even if the wedding end by mid-night, the babe no go sleep for her papa house at all. e no de happen for my side.

white wedding na ceremony. period. blessing ko, blessing ni. so if i marry my okpekesis, bend on my knee, erupt some advance level prayers, God no go bless my marriage wey dey legal b4 man and b4 God? guy cool down. church wedding dey expensive these days.

@BabyO,
so baby una no bree wait 3 days b4 una chop "feast of passover"

As far as I'm concerned this is something of a grey area, akin to the scenarios Paul discussed in Romans 14. I think this passage and also 1 Corinthians 8:10-13 are very instructive in dealing  with apparently disputable issues like this. I'll post Romans 14 for it is a very good read:

Romans 14

¹ Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. ²One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. ³The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. ⁴Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
⁵One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ⁶He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. ⁷For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. ⁸If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord, 
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.
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¹³Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. ¹⁴As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. ¹⁵If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. ¹⁶Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. ¹⁷For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, ¹⁸because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.

¹⁹Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. ²⁰Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. ²¹It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.

²²So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. ²³But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

We can insert the wedding ceremony issue in place of the issues discussed in the passage above, such as eating meat and sacred days. Regardless of where we stand on the issue, each should be convinced in his own mind, desist from looking down on others with different views, AND glorify God by keeping his own conscience.

Personally, I find Tayo-D's post to be spot on. The marriage covenant was instituted by God long before the church wedding ceremony and other traditions came onto the scene. Therefore, all wedding ceremonies are valid before God. However, those of us who hold to this view must ensure that we will not create dissension, back-biting and strife by what our conscience permits. This is esp. relevant for those of us in the ultra-Pentecostal RCCG-type churches, where most Christians hold only the church ceremony to be valid. If you attend a church like this, or are surrounded by such-minded Christians - or even more importantly, have parents with those views - then it is better for you to put off sexual relations until after the church ceremony. As Paul said in Romans 14, 'don't let what you consider good to be spoken of as evil.' As Christians, we ought to put the benefit of others before our own.


Just my two cents. Then again, what do I know, I'm single  .