Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? - Religion (7) - Nairaland
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Poll: Does God recognize traditional weddings?Yes: 80% (210 votes)No: 19% (52 votes) This poll has ended |
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| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by osisi5: 7:09pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
let's stop the nastiness @ Iyes and lady,this thing is not by force. Many of you men have been inserting your sim cards into Iyabo,Titi,Nneka,Aisha and Laraba and thunder hasn't fired you yet  let's not insult one another over this issue. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Nobody: 7:15pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
kaecy5: Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and thus anything that defiles it is sin. Anyway the point of raising that question was to point out that sometimes we dont need to read it in the bible in black and white to truly know the mind of God on certain issues. I hear so many pple asking how marriages were conducted in the bible 4000 yrs ago and i wonder . . . based on that fact shld we now start marrying our cousins too like Isaac and co did? |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by TayoD1(m): 7:22pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
@davidylan, I hear so many people asking how marriages were conducted in the bible 4000 years ago and i wonder . . . based on that fact shld we now start marrying our cousins too like Isaac and co did?Actually, the lessons learnt from those mariages is that God expects us as NT believers to marry only within His family - the Church. We are forbidden to marry unbelievers in as much as they were forbidden to marry people outside of Abraham's covenant. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Nobody: 7:24pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
Tayo-D: yeah i perfectly understand the point. I'm only saying that we cant make literal interpretations of the bible like assuming that since they didnt have anything like church weddings now makes church weddings here spiritually insignificant. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Nobody: 7:26pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
@david smoking, alchohol r not sins quote me any where, but what u do after that is what you're accountable for. my body is the temple of the holyspirit i agree bible did not say let cigar nor beer be found among u it expressly talks about the fruits of the spirits and the things that should not be found among u like gossip, malice etc NOTE- the things that defile any one dont come from the outside like eating or drinking they come from the inside ur THOUGHTS if ur thought process is corrupt and thinks of evil all the time even if u dont smoke u r not going anywhere i don't drink nor smoke is a personal decision by me and not because the church said so scientist have been confused over time what is good for u and what is not and the church have made rules and decision based on this confusion as long as i read and understand my bible perfectly i listen to what God says and not what a pastor says that is right or wrong which most times i have to filter different preachings. if u can remenber some years back there was a church in Nigeria that said television is the devil's box that it is a sin , the only thign that saved my tv then from my mother was there was no buyer for it the same church now is on tv not only tv sattelite tv i have been in church over the years and i have come to understand a lot of things that r preached are not what God says but what men assumes God says if u listen to God the way he talks to you may or may not be different to the way he talks to me, he definitely would talk to you in the way u would understand i personal take marraige to be when the family agrees but for formalities i would agree to a church wedding to make my fiancee' happy because most girls have a thing for white gowns/weddings but if the next person does not want a church wedding that does not give me right to condemn him and i have seen people lie because of church wedding, when the church would ask them have u inserted or not they would say NO because they knwo the church might cancel the wedding and the embarrasment involved. i prefer not to lie of course the laws of the land instructs legal maraige and bible says it expressly we should respect the laws of the land so i agree to legal marriage. i am sorry if i have sounded insultive in anyway i had no intentions of that but according to what a poster earlier said standing infront of a preist does not make any man a father nor a husband |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Nobody: 7:41pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
kaecy5: lol for the sake of not derailing the thread i will not pursue this so much. But brother . . . do you need the bible to say thou shalt not smoke a cigarette before you agree it is sin? The bible strongly condemns drunkeness . . . spin it however you want . . . some people will still get drunk on just half a glass of beer. The mere fact that such anti-social behaviour is even frowned upon by a society that does not pretend to be godly is enough to let me know that it is not the will of God that any of those who call themselves His shld be found doing such. Sometimes you dont need it written black and white in the bible . . . ur conscience (led by the Holy Spirit) lets you know if it is right or wrong. I still strongly believe that the traditional marriage, while still accepted, should not be used as an excuse by those who cannot exercise a little patience before eatiing the fruit. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by iyes(m): 7:49pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
@ yemivictor; Marriage is a universal phenomenon. Therefore, just like human rights principles, it has no colouration or religion. That is the problem, and genesis of this debate! There is an attempt to use religion to invalidate a bona fide union between the poster and spouse!! You see, irrespective of your creed, marriage is marriage. Therefore there is no special requirement for conjugal union for Christians, or any other religion. God is very tactful to avoid laying down any "special or holy " requirements for this. Every other huddles are shackles and burdens imposed by humans on ourselves. I repeat, for this couple in question, having done traditional wedding (otherwise known as engagement) they have fulfilled ALL righteousness, and are MAN & WIFE ALREADY. Church and pastoral/priestly benediction or not. They are fully married!!! The Oyinbo people that brought church wedding to us, lest we forget, do not have any other culture other than that (white wedding) So why should we always relegate what is ours in favour of theirs? The reason you clamour for church wedding is that the whites instituted it into our society. If it were the other way (say we had church wedding, and Oyinbos brought traditional/engagement) you guys would have jettisoned church wedding by now in favour of trads! Have you attended an engagement ceremony before? Didn't you notice how much more compelling and elaborate it is? I mean the groom and his family, carrying various items of value, asking (as for the Yorubas, BEGGING) the family of the bride in full glare of a multitudes from both sides, the "negotiation" sometimes taking several hours before the bride's parent finalling acceding? And before the wife is handed over thru the parents of the groom (signifying that they are giving their daughter in trust via them to their son) they are giving conditions including that she must not be beaten, starved, ill-treated in any way, for which the groom will agree. Even, in some Fulani culture, the groom is flogged heavily to show his preparedness to take home the priced possesion. That is REAL MARRIAGE, it's wonderful! The Oyinbos' lack that element. There is an analogy: Coronation (Africans vs Oyinbos) 1. Human kingship is recognised and accepted by God. 2. Every kingship position is sanctioned by God (The Bible says "the heart of the king is in the hands of the Lord) Therefore, noone can attain the position without God's permission, or being ordained by Him (either a good or bad king). 3. For any white man's king's coronation to be valid, it must be done in a church, and or blessed by a priest. African kings' coronations are done in traditional ceremonies. Now as my conclusion; I pose this question: Does lack of church or pastoral/priestly blessing invalidate the kingship of an African king? 1 Like |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Lady2(f): 7:55pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
@ yemivictor Don't even go there with me. I don't come to this forum to get on anyone's oko and definitely not yours. I've been peaceful so far so please let me be. Infact let me spell that out for you FALL BACK H A R D!!!!! If you don't understand english, it's not my fault. Cause you clearly don't seem to understand that others are saying what Iyes said only in their own words. I didn't see the need to be redundant. Almost everyone here agrees that marriage isn't only recognised when it takes place in a church. So if you must find someone to take out your PMS stress on, please look past me cause I am not the one. peace. To respond to your claim of iyes as my boyfriend would mean you made sense!!! so am gonna leave that alone. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by osisi5: 8:07pm On Jan 16, 2008 |
kaecy,my brother,your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Smoking marijuana,drinking smirnoff may not be written in black and white. Neither did the Bible say "don't marry an Ifa priestess" If indeed you are led by Spirit,allow Him to teach you all things. Let our conduct bring glory to God. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Bolarge(m): 9:52am On Jan 17, 2008 |
@+osisi I really must thank you for bringing to light a very, very important issue. This is prolly one of the most interesting and thought-provoking threads I've come across in a while. I also want to commend the quality of contributions hitherto. I must say I'm seeing the best of Nairaland once again. Keep it up people. Folks like iyes have said it all. We're embroiled in a crass conflict of religion and tradition, a direct consequence of the imposition of alien cultures on ours. Like an earlier poster hinted at, and it bears repetition: Our culture is rich. Too rich. I speak as a bonafide Yorubaman. Everything depicted in our traditional wedding is of immense substantial import. The way we honor our parents, the way the bride honors the groom, the way the groom's family honors the the bride's and vice-versa, the way we display our willingness to cross the seven seas, do everything doable just to pluck that exotic flower in the bride's family's lush garden. . . . People, it's beautiful! and guess what? God gave us!He recognises and consents to it 100%. Personally, I would embark on a "white wedding" just to please my fiancee knowing fully well that our ladies have been totally reprogrammed to believe in the white wedding (gown) trend. White wedding ko, indigo wedding ni. Very soon your wedding won't be valid unless Ovation magazine covers it, at least so they say in their ad. Madness.  |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by yemivictor: 10:56am On Jan 17, 2008 |
iyes: iyes, From what i've read, i don't see anything that runs contrary with my position! The initiator of the thread only asked @ some point that; "is it a sin to chopulate pardon me after traditional wedding, being a christian couple, with the white wedding only days away" that's all! And i answered that; "being a christian couple, they should be able to wait since it is only days away! And that patience is a virtue", finish o! But that if there're no immediate plans for the white wedding, THEY ARE AS GOOD AS MARRIED ANYWAYS! Now please tell me iyes, where i went wrong? where? The only contenion i have with you is; "church building or no church building & pastoral blessing or no pastoral blessing" And my position is; Being a CHRISTIAN COUPLE, it is only normal for you to seek pastoral blessings, BE IT @ THE CHURCH WEDDING or @ THE TRADITIONAL WEDDING! I never placed the church wedding above the traditional wedding, in terms of importance! Traditional wedding is as good as white wedding, and i even narrated a case in point with the story of the young Anglican priest to buttress my position! PLS GET IT RIGHT! I think some unscrupulous elements just hijacked and misrepresented my previous post which led to the misinformation! Such elements should be ignored! can u imagine? making references to my own privates on a public forum such as this? rubbish!  |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Julianah(f): 11:25am On Jan 17, 2008 |
hello let us learn to follow our beleifs and Godly upbringing when dealing with issues like this. U've all spoken well |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by johnbush(m): 12:15pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
i don't think it's fornication if a couple decides to have intercourse after their traditional marriage ceremony simply because, the are married. marriage is simply two people of opposite sex, coming together and ascenting to getting married. there doesn't have to be any ellaborate ceremony or a church ceremony for that matter  |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by scribe(m): 1:20pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
Let the hypocrisy stop! We all know that the bible never outlined how a marriage ceremony should be conducted. But important issues that cannot be brushed aside were given detailed attention. 1. Sex is reserved for married couples (it doesn't matter what your opinion or mine is). 2. Marriage is not just a matter of consent between two. The parents have a role to play. 3. As believers, we are expected to conduct ourselves in such a way as will bring glory to God. If you agree to the about, then I can give my verdict on the question raised as follows. Two adults can get married using the traditional ceremony (if nothing is done within the ceremony that is unbiblical - e.g flogging the would-be bridegroom like we have in some cultures).Once the parents gives their consent and the would-be couple comes out in the open to declare their intention, they can be joined together as husband and wife. As Christian it is only wise to have a minister do the joining. After they have being declared husband and wife to the society, there is no more restriction. Wait, before you jump to conclusion, I am not done yet  What we have in Nigeria is quite different. We have a situation whereby couples undergo as much as 3 ceremonies before the society accepts them as being married. - They go to the registry. - They conduct traditional wedding. - They cap it all up with a white/church wedding. If a couple decides to conduct just any of the above, it will be enough and ok. However, if a couple decides to do two or more before feeling satisfied that they have fulfill all righteousness, then they must wait until all have been done before they can start having sexual intercourse. And that is the point. If two people are already having sexual intercourse, why should they lie to the SOCIETY and attempt to lie to God by conducting CHURCH WEDDING? If you are already having sexual intercourse after your traditional wedding, simply go and ask your pastor to bless the marriage you have already conducted. Don't go about wearing white gown (which originally is meant to signify virginity) [/i]and ask a pastor to join you and your spouse [i](when you have already done so). That will amount to hypocrisy! |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by shockreaction(m): 2:21pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
A marriage doesn't have to be blessed in a church. Heck, a marriage doesn't even require a pastor for any reason. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Benzene: 2:24pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
You can begin to have sex with a lady after any of the acceptable types of marriage: court, church (religious) and traditional. People are driven by convention and dogma. Church marriage is one of the many types of marriage and does not endorse any other type of marriage. Other religious groups have their own kinds of marriage. During the traditional wedding, the lady was asked to identify her husband and she identified you and on that basis you were blessed by the lady’s father or whoever. God respects a people’s way of life as long as it is not fetish hence HE respects a traditional marriage. My brother, you are on the right track make you dey do your thing dey go!! |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by dot2002(m): 2:56pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
It is the sensible thing to do. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by yemivictor: 3:34pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
shockreaction: LOL! I want to believe you're only kidding, right? I also want to maintain that a wedding ceremony (whether traditional or church) between a CHRISTIAN COUPLE should at the very least, be blessed by a pastor, or reverend, or bishop, or whatever they call them these days! It's only the right thing to do, regardless of the fact that the Bible may be silent on the matter! |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Kajiang02(m): 3:44pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
wen bote parties r in mutual agreement, and both parents have agreed also and blessed d children. i tink connectin is allowed dats de correct tin. the church aspect is to getting it involved so that the members of your church whom u cal ur family wil have conseent of it. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by adamugo(m): 5:10pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
My sister osisi dont mind those hypocrites dey chop your thing dey go,what of those people that get married traditionally alone?are they saying they're fornicating,ask those holier than thou if any of their parent get wedded before given birth to them. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by jebrills(m): 7:38pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
Hello, Marriage is the most beautiful and sweetest thing that ever happens to a man and a woman. It is the union of two people from two different background coming together to live as husband and wife. There are two types of marriage act, we have the customary marriage and statuitory marriage or (white weddind). The two types of marriage is valid before God and it is not conpulsory that both must be contracted. In customary marriage, once the man pay the bride price and the wife is giving to him and she goes to his home, he is married and has not commited any sin before Jehovah God.He may wish to register hsi marriage so as to serve as a protection for his wife and children in the future and for the government to be aware of it. Then statuitory maerriage or white wedding as some called it is also valid and legal before Jehovah God and here the paying of bride price does not consumate or validate the marriage here. But if the person in question wishes to pay a bride price he could but even if he does not pay it , he is marriage, valid before Jehovah God. Here the marriage would have been registered either in the court or church who have been given the authority to do so my the government. So if a person wishe to do just either customary or statuitory and the wife goes with him to his home and he make love to his wife, he has not sinned against Jehovah God. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Besteric(m): 7:40pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
Nigerians are funny, but let me ask you pple sef. When is someone married  ' well let me explain everything to you, the moment a woman is handed over to a man in the presence of one or two witnesses as a wife , The moment the parents, guardian of the man or woman agree to each others proposal and accepts anything like food, drinks from each other, YOU ARE MARRIED IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD AND MAN; period,, anything you do after that no be sin |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by osisi5: 9:28pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
Bolarge: You're welcome my dear.I've always thought about this And my own experience of my mother inlaw making sure that my husband and I didn't t sleep in the same room after the trado marriage got me thinking. She forgot that we'd both travelled from the US for the marriage and No we were not living together. The responses here have been an eye opener. I do agree with yemivictor. Court,trado and church weddings are all valid in God's eyes as marriages However,a couple that wants to do the Church wedding should hold out till it's done before the chopping begins. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Nobody: 9:30pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
+osisi: gbam! my point is made. |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by breez(m): 11:33pm On Jan 17, 2008 |
My friend, if na so the thing de do you giz-giz-giz, u 4 plan everything together na. Both engagement and white wedding, one a day after the other. why the wide gap for the devil to dance in between? Not ruling out the possibility that some factors may be responsible for the gap anyway, but whatever it is, the time lag must be worth the waiting altogether.  |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by yemivictor: 8:49am On Jan 18, 2008 |
davidylan: Seconded! |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Nobody: 10:11am On Jan 18, 2008 |
However,a couple that wants to do the Church wedding should hold out till it's done before the chopping begins. Agreed!!!!!!!!!! |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by U1(m): 10:40am On Jan 18, 2008 |
I am really surprised with the kind of reasons put forward by over 90 percent of the respondents so far. Some say White wedding is a foreign thing. Accepted. But is white wedding necessarily a church wedding? Or is church wedding necessarily a white wedding? There is something we must realise here, in the church wedding you can use colours other than white also. Also, about the issue of traditional or no traditional wedding, the only thing I will just like to chip in here is that, traditional wedding is for the traditionalist, and church wedding is for those who follow Christ Jesus (though that does not stop them from doing traditional wedding too, but that is not all). If someone claims to be a Christian, he or she must do what Christians are supposed to do. No one is telling anybody to leave their traditions behind, you can incorporate the good ones into your religion. Afterall, at least some time back, human sacrifices was carried out in the open before the missionaries came to put an end to it. Now, that was a tradition, why is no one clamouring for it to be continued just because it was a tradition. Some argued that does it mean that all our forefathers were fornicators just because they did not wed in the church. Well, the answer I will give to that is NO. You do things according to your troth (the doctrine you hold to). During their time they don't know anything about Christianity, so why will they be held for something they are ignorant of. Even today, same applies, if you are a Christian, you do things the Christian way, If you are a Moslem, the way Islam instructed you to, and so on. All I know is that everybody will be judged according to the troth they hold to. You don't tell me just because you couldn't find a church wedding mentioned in the Bible, that one should not do it. If I may ask too, where was it mentioned in the Bible that you must go to Church on Sunday (at least Sabbath is Saturday), still, you go to church. We only use the Bible when we intend to please ourselves, shame on you. Church wedding is not when you call the whole of Lagos to come and eat. The only requirement (and my idea) of a Church Wedding are: a priest, the couple, their parents and a couple of witnesses, and you are okay. But some people will want the whole of Lagos to know they are doing something, thereby running to debt. You can only try your best, I have tried mine here, and I'm pretty sure some people would not be convinced, but then, I can only do so much. THUMBS UP FOR HERO111, FAKANDE |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by cream2(m): 1:59pm On Jan 18, 2008 |
there has been a lot of talk about parents, but what happens if couples parents are dead or they are out of the picture? does that mean its not blessed and sanctioned |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by yemivictor: 3:09pm On Jan 18, 2008 |
cream2: If the parents are dead, the usual practice is that an extended family member(s) should take their place! If they are out of the picture (as you've put it) by way of disagreement, then, it simply means the parental blessing (which is integral to the success of any marriage, i must say) is missing! In other words, there'd actually be a recognised wedding/marriage, it only will be lacking in terms of PARENTAL BLESSING!!! i honestly don't know how clearer i could be |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by Gfrey(m): 3:21pm On Jan 18, 2008 |
If you have paid the bride price to her parents, and the family has recognised you as their in-law. You are traditionally/customarily allowed to put you smartcard into her decoder. If you do it the legal way i.e through the court, in the presence of witnesses {usually the parents}, that means you are legally allowed to card into her ATM. If you go to church (N/B; A church permitted by law to perform wedding ceremonies and give out legally recognised certificate), this means you are now spiritually and legally allowed to put your sim in her phone. Simply because u have not done the white wedding does not make the union a sin before God. White weddings most times are just a formality or a chance for the union to be blessed by the church. The day the bride price is paid, you are now husband and wife. Marriage is a union designd by God,ordaind by God and (makes sense)if it is Blessed by God or His 'Representative"(in d presence of witnesses), Also note that Every union with out d consent of the parents of d bride and groom is nt scripturally ok E.G isaac and Rebecca, Ther4 shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave 2 hIs wife, With Parental consent and approval,i bleiev it is AOK and makes sense if it is blessed in Gods house, Our traditions may b faulty, bt Gods house is our security, There are NO rules 2 dis anyway bt i would subscribe 2 d final solmnization in d church, "LET EVERY MAN B PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND" |
| Re: Lovemaking After Traditional Wedding Only: Is This Fornication? by ayowande(m): 5:12pm On Jan 18, 2008 |
There are two types of marriages in Nigeria; 1.the customary marriage (which will all call traditional) 2.the statutory (which we call the Court wedding). Both marriages are legal and valid both to the state and to God. It is not a requirement, not necessary to do both for your marriage to be recognized. For the customary type of marriage is contracted when a) the bride price is paid and 2.the bride is handed over to the groom by the already consenting parents. If any of this is missing then no marriage has been contracted and any sexual intimacy occurring is fornication. On the other hand the statutory type of marriage is contracted when the bride and the groom file a 21 day notice at the registry and thereafter, along with two witnesses before a marriage official, take Vows of fidelity and sign the marriage certificate. This simple ceremony requires no parental consent and you do not need to pay the bride price unless the groom wants to fulfill some custom. If no 21 day notice is filed or some short cuts are taken the law of the land has been tampered with and according to Rom 13 we will not be obeying the authorities. Needless to say that such hurriedly contracted marriages lack honor in the sight of God. This type of marriage can be contracted in a religious place that is license to do so. Some churches are recognized and you can use them. The ceremony at the church or the reception that follow does not validate the marriage ,nor does anyone not going to church mean that their marriage is not valid. Once the requirements of the two types of marriages have been met then the marriage is valid and legal both in the sight of God and men. Those contracting the customary marriage may wish to register their marriages for the sake of the woman and her children. If they choose to do this then the groom alone (or if the bride wishes to accompany him) will go to the local Govt and register an already existing marriage. This is different from the form C that will be giving when a NEW marriage is contracted under the statutory marriage system. So you have not committed fornication at all if you have met all the requirements of your traditional marriage. The issue of marriage in the Bible is advisory, there is not one command in the bible tat a priest should be present at a wedding or otherwise. Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana-the bible did not mention the actual ceremony (please note that the word ceremony refers to the requirements for both types of marriages. As an example the payment of bride price and the handing over of the bride to the groom by the family of the bride is a ceremony whether there is food, drinks dancing or what have you. All that is feasting or celebration).When Isaac got married the simple ceremony was that he took her into his mothers hut and that signified the marriage as the servant of his father had earlier paid the bride price. Yes we waste a lot of money in this country ‘though one will understand that that day is both sacred solemn and special. |
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