Living_Saint: I believe in the Trinity, and I believe in only one God.

Confusion @ its peak....

ijawkid:

Revelations 1:8 as u can read with ur eyes is reffered to Yahweh....who is the almighty God...

verses 1 -6 explains it all...

Verses 17-18 says Jesus dies and was raised,and now lives forever...

I have asked:::: Can the almighty die??

Can the almighty have a Father and God over Him??

Remove the trinity veil from your eyes and read revelations 1:1-8 and tell me who is the almighty God @ verse 8...

I had debunked Ola on this very verse.....

lol @debunked. What a laugh

Ihedinobi:

lol @debunked. What a laugh

That's all you can do now , laugh.

You are finished

Living_Saint: I believe in the Trinity, and I believe in only one God.

Sorry you cannot believe in the Trinity and believe in one GOD.

Your statement should read :
I believe in the Trinity, and I believe in only three Gods.

ijawkid:

Hey sorry my bro....my internet bundle got exhausted @ mid night...there was nothing I could do...but I'm up this morning and this is a perfect reply to your question...

I said Yahweh is Jesus's saviour....which makes Him the saviour of all saviours.

would u deny that Yahweh isn't Jesus's saviour??

U wanna argue that??

Let me quote hebrew 5:4-10...

4 And no one takes this
honor on himself, but he receives it when
called by God, just as Aaron was.
5 In the same way, Christ did not take on
himself the glory of becoming a high priest.
But God said to him,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.”[a]
6 And he says in another place,
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”[b]
7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he
offered up prayers and petitions with fervent
cries and tears to the one who could "SAVE" him
from death, and he was heard because of his
reverent submission.

Did I just read ""to the one(Yahweh) who could"" save"" Him(Jesus) from death"".??....

That verse 7 tells who the saviour of Christ is.....

My bro that is d bible talking.....

Jesus died to save us,Yahweh saved Jesus....it was all Yahwehs plan...

That's why I said Yahweh is the saviour of all Saviours.....almighty Saviour
U get it??

Did God save Jesus from death? Did Jesus not die? How did God 'save' Jesus here? If God 'saved' Jesus from death, how would Jesus have become the saviour of mankind without dying?

This is a clear reference to the prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane before the crucifixion, and so again, I ask, where did he save?

There cannot be two saviours - God said he is THE Saviour, Jesus is THE Saviour, the Redeemer - you have failed to explain this.

To clarify, this is the definition of Saviour: a person who rescues another person or a thing from danger or harm

Note it's not someone who 'can save/can rescue' but who actually saves! There is ONLY ONE SAVIOUR!

I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior.

debosky:

Did God save Jesus from death? Did Jesus not die? How did God 'save' Jesus here?

This is a clear reference to the prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane before the crucifixion, and so again, I ask, where did he save?

There cannot be two saviours - God said he is THE Saviour, Jesus is THE Saviour, the Redeemer - you have failed to explain this.

To clarify, this is the definition of Saviour: a person who rescues another person or a thing from danger or harm

Note it's not someone who 'can save/can rescue' but who actually saves! There is ONLY ONE SAVIOUR!

You are seriously clutching at straws here.

I suggest you do some reading and research.

frosbel:
You are seriously clutching at straws here.

I suggest you do some reading and research.

Please show me the straws - The account in Hebrews is talking about Jesus' prayer to God in Gethsemane for the cup to pass over him - yes or no?

Did God 'save' him from this death? Yes or no?

frosbel:


You are seriously clutching at straws here.

I suggest you do some reading and research.

He really needs to.....

I just showed him series of Saviours that God appointed including Jesus through out the history of mankind and Gods people....

But debosky has chosen not to see it....

frosbel:


You are seriously clutching at straws here.

I suggest you do some reading and research.

Now that's what Enigma, Aletheia, myself and every other Christian have been telling you, dude. But you're stiff-necked and hard of hearing. Your heart has become hardened and you are so blind that the Truth is no longer discernible to you. You are like a child that rejects his father and would accept no roof over his head but blames his father for the hot sun and cold rain.

Frosbel, you are lost.

Ihedinobi:

Now that's what Enigma, Aletheia, myself and every other Christian have been telling you, dude. But you're stiff-necked and hard of hearing. Your heart has become hardened and you are so blind that the Truth is no longer discernible to you. You are like a child that rejects his father and would accept no roof over his head but blames his father for the hot sun and cold rain.

Frosbel, you are lost.

I do not need a Pagan telling me how to worship the ONE and true GOD.

In due time God in his mercy will take away the veil from your haughty eyes.

debosky:

Did God save Jesus from death? Did Jesus not die? How did God 'save' Jesus here? If God 'saved' Jesus from death, how would Jesus have become the saviour of mankind without dying?

This is a clear reference to the prayers in the Garden of Gethsemane before the crucifixion, and so again, I ask, where did he save?

There cannot be two saviours - God said he is THE Saviour, Jesus is THE Saviour, the Redeemer - you have failed to explain this.

To clarify, this is the definition of Saviour: a person who rescues another person or a thing from danger or harm

Note it's not someone who 'can save/can rescue' but who actually saves! There is ONLY ONE SAVIOUR!

I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no savior.

Now let me ask u this question.:::::

Jesus saved us from sin and death....abi??

But why are we still dying and sinning??

If u answer this question then u've answered the question you asked me....

If u can't see scriptural points clearly then I don't know what else to do.....

For the fact Yahweh ressurected Jesus isn't that enough to show Yahweh was Jesus's saviour??

Jesus cried to the one who could save Him,and indeed he was saved.....

Jehovah is the one who always provides a saviour for his people,so as to get the glory...

He has done that many times b4 Jesus came.....

I started with moses.....moses was a saviour..

I again quoted judges 3:15 to show you another saviour that Yahweh erected(Ehud).....

Moses and ehud being saviours does not negate Yahweh from being the only saviour.....

Yahweh uses agents to save or redeem his people......

Can't u just understand that??

Debosky why u dey fall my hand??......

ijawkid:

He really needs to.....

I just showed him series of Saviours that God appointed including Jesus through out the history of mankind and Gods people....

But debosky has chosen not to see it....

So Jesus is just another saviour that God 'appointed'? Really?

In short Jesus is no different from Moses, Joshua or all the prophets?

Comparing Jesus to Ehud? Did Ehud take away the sin of his own family or even the tribe of Benjamin?

ijawkid:

Now let me ask u this question.:::::

Jesus saved us from sin and death....abi??

But why are we still dying and sinning??

If u answer this question then u've answered the question you asked me....

Please avoid diversions - this is not the subject of this discussion. You can open a different thread to discuss this.

If u can't see scriptural points clearly then I don't know what else to do.....

For the fact Yahweh ressurected Jesus isn't that enough to show Yahweh was Jesus's saviour??

The passage you quoted does not call Yahweh Jesus' saviour - like I said, show me where this is stated in the scripture and I will accept. Surely that is not too hard?

Jesus cried to the one who could save Him,and indeed he was saved.....

Where did he cry to the one who could save Him? In Gethsemane or where? Where/when was he 'saved'? Biblical references please.

Jehovah is the one who always provides a saviour for his people,so as to get the glory...

He has done that many times b4 Jesus came.....

I started with moses.....moses was a saviour..

I again quoted judges 3:15 to show you another saviour that Yahweh erected(Ehud).....

Moses and ehud being saviours does not negate Yahweh from being the only saviour.....

Yahweh uses agents to save or redeem his people......

Can't u just understand that??

Debosky why u dey fall my hand??......

So Jesus,the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. is just a saviour just like Moses and Ehud?

debosky:

So Jesus is just another saviour that God 'appointed'? Really?

In short Jesus is no different from Moses, Joshua or all the prophets?

Comparing Jesus to Ehud? Did Ehud take away the sin of his own family or even the tribe of Benjamin?

See until u remove the trinity veil from your eyes u'll never understand plain truths....

U asked if Jesus was like moses??

If u had forgotten,Yahweh once said he'll raise up a prophet like moses....and that prophet came to be Jesus....

And in many ways Jesus is like we humans who are serving God...why??

Because we share the same Father and God with Jesus...

That is why Jesus is called Yahwehs servant....

SERVANT.....have u analyzed that word??

SERVANTTTTTTTTT........

I am a servant of Yahweh,you(debosky) are a servant of God,ihedinobi is a servant of Yahweh ,moses was a servant of Yahweh and Jesus too........


I'll tell u this again my dear bro.....

Remove the veil of trinity and u'll see clearly.....

Moses freed and carried d isrealites away from egyptian bondage.....

Exactly the same thing Jesus is doing,but on a grander scale......

debosky:



So Jesus,the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. is just a saviour just like Moses and Ehud?

Debosky, I will go easy on you today , but can you kindly tell me that you do not honestly believe that Jesus was literally slain before the foundation of the world

He was slain when he was revealed as a man, but this statement means the plan had been laid down before the foundation of the world , no ?

ijawkid:

See until u remove the trinity veil from your eyes u'll never understand plain truths....

U asked if Jesus was like moses??

If u had forgotten,Yahweh once said he'll raise up a prophet like moses....and that prophet came to be Jesus....

And in many ways Jesus is like we humans who are serving God...why??

Because we share the same Father and God with Jesus...

That is why Jesus is called Yahwehs servant....

SERVANT.....have u analyzed that word??

SERVANTTTTTTTTT........

I am a servant of Yahweh,you(debosky) are a servant of God,ihedinobi is a servant of Yahweh ,moses was a servant of Yahweh and Jesus too........


I'll tell u this again my dear bro.....

Remove the veil of trinity and u'll see clearly.....

Moses freed and carried d isrealites away from egyptian bondage.....

Exactly the same thing Jesus is doing,but on a grander scale......

Now saving Israel from the Egyptians is the SAME as saving mankind for eternity?

This is the last time I will ask the question - can you show where the bible says Yahweh is Jesus' saviour? Responding to the rest of your posts is futile - just answer this one question please.

debosky:

Please avoid diversions - this is not the subject of this discussion. You can open a different thread to discuss this.



The passage you quoted does not call Yahweh Jesus' saviour - like I said, show me where this is stated in the scripture and I will accept. Surely that is not too hard?



Where did he cry to the one who could save Him? In Gethsemane or where? Where/when was he 'saved'? Biblical references please.



So Jesus,the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. is just a saviour just like Moses and Ehud?

Please what do u understand from this verse??

1 john 4:14..NIV...
14 And we have seen and
testify that the Father has sent the Son as
Savior of the world. ..

Jesus was sent ""AS"" saviour of the world....

Jesus was appointed for that Job like the way every other past saviours were appointed and chosen...

Remove the trinity veil from your eyes.....

frosbel:
Debosky, I will go easy on you today , but can you kindly tell me that you do not honestly believe that Jesus was literally slain before the foundation of the world

He was slain when he was revealed as a man, but this statement means the plan had been laid down before the foundation of the world , no.

You and ijawkid are showing a distinct lack of focus - don't start debating what is 'literal' and what isn't or any other distractions.

The question was whether Jesus is just 'a saviour' like Ehud and Moses? Can you answer that?

I won't keep repeating myself if a direct question cannot be answered:

debosky:

Now saving Israel from the Egyptians is the SAME as saving mankind for eternity?

This is the last time I will ask the question - can you show where the bible says Yahweh is Jesus' saviour? Responding to the rest of your posts is futile - just answer this one question please.

debosky:

You and ijawkid are showing a distinct lack of focus - don't start debating what is 'literal' and what isn't or any other distractions.

The question was whether Jesus is just 'a saviour' like Ehud and Moses? Can you answer that?

I guess your question was asked to Ijawkid, but hey let me answer.


Jesus is the ultimate saviour , the integral part of God's plan to save mankind.

To call God saviour and Jesus is not a contradiction but a fulfilment of a plan initiated by God and completed in his SON.

You seem to be a little confused about this logic which is why you need to a proper bible study.

debosky:

You and ijawkid are showing a distinct lack of focus - don't start debating what is 'literal' and what isn't or any other distractions.

The question was whether Jesus is just 'a saviour' like Ehud and Moses? Can you answer that?

Its like asking if Jesus was a high priest like aaron.....forgetting they are all high priests that played d same role....because Yahweh was there God....both aaron and Jesus....

Your questions only show you lack bible knowledge......

Please read this verse....
Acts 5:31....
New International Version (©1984)
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince
and Savior that he might give repentance and
forgiveness of sins to Israel.
...

Jesus was exalted,chosen,and bestowed with the responsibilty of saving Yahwehs people...

If u can't understand this then goodluck to you.....

frosbel: I throw open a challenge to all Nairaland Trinitarians .

Can you show me anywhere in the Bible where Jesus Christ is referred to as ALMIGHTY ?

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Rev 1:8]

Rash and impulsive as ever. . .

frosbel:

I guess your question was asked to Ijawkid, but hey let me answer.


Jesus is the ultimate saviour , the integral part of God's plan to save mankind.

To call God saviour and Jesus is not a contradiction but a fulfilment of a plan initiated by God and completed in his SON.

You seem to be a little confused about this logic which is why you need to a proper bible study.

I am not struggling with any logic brother, neither am I confused. It is your brother ijawkid who is trying to invent a 'saviour of saviours' - a term foreign to the bible.

It is you who is trying to create a separation between The Father and Jesus in calling Jesus 'a god'.

Let me provide one more reference:
John 10:

30 I and my Father are one.

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

ijawkid:

Its like asking if Jesus was a high priest like aaron.....forgetting they are all high priests that played d same role....because Yahweh was there God....both aaron and Jesus....

Your questions only show you lack bible knowledge......

Please read this verse....
Acts 5:31....
New International Version (©1984)
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince
and Savior that he might give repentance and
forgiveness of sins to Israel.
...

Jesus was exalted,chosen,and bestowed with the responsibilty of saving Yahwehs people...

If u can't understand this then goodluck to you.....

Brother - answer my question - where is Yahweh called the 'saviour of Jesus' in the scripture? That is all I ask.

aletheia:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Rev 1:8]

Rash and impulsive as ever. . .

But according to ijawkid/frosbel - there are two DIFFERENT Alpha and Omegas in Revelations 1.

aletheia:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Rev 1:8]

Rash and impulsive as ever. . .

That verse is directed to Yahweh...

The trinity veil is all over your eyes....

New International Version (©1984)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord
""God"", "who is, and who was, and who is to come,
the Almighty."
...

This was the same almighty giving Jesus revelations in verse 1 of revelation chapter 1...

And in verses 5 $ 6...
English Standard Version (©2001)
5..
and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness,
the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of
kings on earth. To him who loves us and has
freed us from our sins by his blood
6.
and made us a kingdom, priests to his GOD and
FATHER, to him be glory and dominion forever
and ever. Amen.
.......

That God who gives Jesus revelations and that is the GOD and FATHER of Jesus is the almighty GOD mentioned @ revelations 1:8....

Remove the trinity veil and see it....

The almighty doesn't die and never experienced ressurection....

Jesus died and was ressurected....

aletheia:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. [Rev 1:8]

Rash and impulsive as ever. . .

I will repeat myself here just for the benefit of you.

It's easy to quote scripture out of context which seems to be one of your skills.

You left out the Lord GOD and made it appear as LORD only with that Catholic cultic KJV bible.


To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”


1. To him who loved us .................
2. to serve his God and Father
3. I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God

1&2 refer to Jesus
3 refers to GOD

Even my 9 year old can decipher this simple verse of scripture.

I suggest you go read it again, this time with a grain of humility , it just might make the difference.


Let us look at what some other bible versions say , not that heavily biased KJV cultic Trinitarian bible you seem to be running around with.



New International Version (©1984)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

New Living Translation (©2007)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," says the Lord God. "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come--the Almighty One."

English Standard Version (©2001)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


International Standard Version (©2008)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," declares the Lord God, "the one who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"I am the A and the Z," says the Lord God, the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming, the Almighty.


American Standard Version
I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.



You are so deeply deceived, may God open your eyes to the truth.


Leave that Pagan Trinity nonsense for the Catholics.

debosky:

But according to ijawkid/frosbel - there are two DIFFERENT Alpha and Omegas in Revelations 1.

Saith the LORD GOD....why didn't u add GOD to the Lord??

frosbel:


I will repeat myself here just for the benefit of you.

It's easy to quote scripture out of context which seems to be one of your skills.

You left out the Lord GOD and made it appears as LORD only with that Catholic cultic KJV bible.


To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”


1. To him who loved us .................
2. to serve his God and Father
3. I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God

1&2 refer to Jesus
3 refers to GOD

Even my 9 year old can decipher this simple verse of scripture.

I suggest you go read it again, this time with a grain of humility , it just might make the difference.


Let us look at what some other bible versions say , not that heavily biased KJV cultic Trinitarian bible you seem to be running around with.



New International Version (©1984)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

New Living Translation (©2007)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," says the Lord God. "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come--the Almighty One."

English Standard Version (©2001)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


International Standard Version (©2008)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega," declares the Lord God, "the one who is, who was, and who is coming, the Almighty."

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
I am The Alap and The Tau, says THE LORD JEHOVAH God, he who is and has been and is coming, The Almighty.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
"I am the A and the Z," says the Lord God, the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming, the Almighty.


American Standard Version
I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.



You are so deeply deceived, may God open your eyes to the truth.


Leave that Pagan Trinity nonsense for the Catholics.

The aramaic translation even puts it well...

It uses JEHOVAH there in verse 8.....

Frosbel thanks for that research....

I have pleaded that debosky,and his crew leave the pagan triology for its owners.....

The bible is so clear....

They hold on to to the kjv and read spurious meanings into verses of the bible....

@Ijawkid & frosbel, thanks alot; I have learned alot going through your posts & the biblical references you quoted. If Jesus were Yahweh, who was he praying to then Thanks again brothers; a lot of Christians are confused about these things, atleast can share with others around me now.

It still beats my imagination how despite all the overwhelming evidence presented on this thread which effectively debunks the trinity myth, trinitarians are still trying their best to twist the bible and make it say what it doesn't say Of what use is belief in the trinity concept to the faith of you guys? The bible doesn't teach it so why add it? What exactly is the spirit behind people insisting on adding to scriptures?

seriallink: @Ijawkid & frosbel, thanks alot; I have learned alot going through your posts & the biblical references you quoted. If Jesus were Yahweh, who was he praying to then Thanks again brothers; a lot of Christians are confused about these things, atleast can share with others around me now.

Ur welcome anytime....

Ur welcome.....