[quote author=Image123][/quote]

New International Version (©1984)
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus - 1 Timothy 2:5

For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin - Hebrews 4:15

Except you want to destroy logic and reason , you cannot be a mediator and at the same time be GOD and you cannot be a Priest and at the same time GOD.

Trinitartians, you guys need to take a break and rethink about the One and True God Christ came to reveal.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.


so now, go and sit down.

Image123: John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.


so now, go and sit down.

So God was his own Son and his own Father , no ?

And Jesus Christ was 1/2 Man and 1/2 God, so tell me , where did the 1/2 God part of him go when he died ?

Who raised up Jesus from the dead.

I leave you with your 3-god god theology.

Hopefully you will confuse more people and prevent them from coming to know the one and only true God.

Image123: Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.

surely this is talking about God on one hand and Christ on the other , no ?

Why do you wish you remain in this difficult situation ?

@OP, hope you don't mind if I ask you a question.

Who did Isaiah see in a vision in Isaiah 6?

frosbel:


So God was his own Son and his own Father , no ?

And Jesus Christ was 1/2 Man and 1/2 God, so tell me , where did the 1/2 God part of him go when he died ?

Who raised up Jesus from the dead.

I leave you with your 3-god god theology.

Hopefully you will confuse more people and prevent them from coming to know the one and only true God.

the confused, i thought you were recently of the opinion that trinity or no trinity is not important for salvation? you've read a new article?

Image123:
the confused, i thought you were recently of the opinion that trinity or no trinity is not important for salvation? you've read a new article?

I asked you a simple question.

I believe in ONE God as Jesus did and the prophets and apostles.

You believe in a 3-god god which has caused undue perplexity among not a few Christians , and others such as Muslims and Jews who have some interest in our faith but find our creeds rather weird and illogical.

So tell me if there is one mediator between God and Man, how can that mediator also be God ?

If there is a high priest between God and Man how can that Man also be God ?

And since God said he is not a Man, how can he be a Man in his current form, does this not in itself contradict his word, when he says God is Spirit ONLY ?

Is it not rather unbliblical to suggest that God had to die for our sins when the truth is actually than God begat a Son in 100% Human form to qualify for the job of atonement for the sins of all mankind.

If God died, then why does the bible say God is immortal which by definition means immunity from death ?

How can God pray to himself, fast on his own behalf, lead himself into temptation while also helping himself to overcome selfsame temptation and the list goes on and on.

If you cannot see that this is utter confusion, we need to change the meaning of the word confusion.

^ i also believe in one God, are you slow? your many copy and pastes are the sources of your perplexity not me. And since you 'saw the light', the muslins have been running over to you in deep contrition, right? Go and look for the meaning of the word 'mystery', you need it in your vocab asap.

Image123: ^ i also believe in one God, are you slow? your many copy and pastes are the sources of your perplexity not me. And since you 'saw the light', the muslins have been running over to you in deep contrition, right? Go and look for the meaning of the word 'mystery', you need it in your vocab asap.

Sorry Sir, but you do not believe in one God but 3.

To suggest that the creator of mathematics and science will suddenly break his own laws is a bewildering thought.

In mathematics 1+1 = 2 and so on and so forth.

Playing with our intelligence by saying 1+1+1=1 will not work. Also making statements such as 'God is ONE made up of three persons but still ONE GOD ' will not fly in this day of awareness and knowledge increase.

The mystery is a mystery of godliness and not a mystery of GOD, no ?

English Standard Version (©2001)
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

He , meaning Christ was manifest in the Flesh, vindicated by the Spirit ( btw if the Spirit is also a person , then God cannot vindicate himself )........etc.


God has made himself known from the OT to the NT as one person not 3, even the Jews know this and are horrified when they hear Christians utter the mayhem called Trinity.

frosbel:

19 So Jesus explained, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself. He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing. In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man. Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to those he raises from the dead, so the Son gives life to anyone he wants. 22 In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge - John 5:19-22

I don't know if the problem of those that believe in trinity is just to make people believe that Jesus is God. But does it mean He is equal with His God? NO. For He said the Father is greater than i am. He didn't lie. Image read the above bible passages + 1COR15:27,28 and meditate upon them. What i understand is that those that believe in trinity like to ignore bible portions that don't support trinity because they feel it make them fall from the truth they think they know. Just make up you mind and read them. I know its a psychological problem but you can conquer it.

Boomark:

I don't know if the problem of those that believe in trinity is just to make people believe that Jesus is God. But does it mean He is equal with His God? NO. For He said the Father is greater than i am. He didn't lie. Image read the above bible passages + 1COR15:27,28 and meditate upon them. What i understand is that those that believe in trinity like to ignore bible portions that don't support trinity because they feel it make them fall from the truth they think they know. Just make up you mind and read them. I know its a psychological problem but you can conquer it.

I wonder why they ignore all the biblical evidences presented on this issue everytime!!

Take a look @ 1 Timothy 2:5-6 & a lot of verses that Brother frosbel & others have presented, but they won't address these verses rather they bring other verses to contradict the debate!!

I now clearly see why other religions tag christianity confused!

seriallink:

I wonder why they ignore all the biblical evidences presented on this issue everytime!!

Take a look @ 1 Timothy 2:5-6 & a lot of verses that Brother frosbel & others have presented, but they won't address these verses rather they bring other verses to contradict the debate!!

I now clearly see why other religions tag christianity confused!

I know that it is much better to educate people like you; however, it is difficult not to insult people with your kind of attitude or at least it is sometimes necessary to tell you home truths ---- especially when you are telling lies.

1. Why would a "Trinitarian" argue against Bible verses that say Jesus is the Son of God? A Trinitarian BELIEVES those verses!!!!

2. For emphasis a Trinitarian does indeed believe that Jesus is the Son of God?

3. The difference is that in addition to recognising that Jesus is the Son of God, the "Trinitarian" recognises also that Jesus IS God. If you don't understand it, that is a different matter, In fact, we know that that is the problem of most people ----- they do not even understand what they are fighting against!

Now to show you that you are the one guilty of what you are accusing others of: have YOU addressed the verses where the Bible says CLEARLY that Jesus IS God? OK a little test then, here is one passage where the Bible says Jesus is God ----- let us see YOU address it!


Revelation 22

6 The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

To make things easier, here a few simple questions of basic comprehension in relation to the passage.

1. Who is "the God of the spirit of the prophets" who sent his angel?

2. Whos is the person called "the Alpha & Omega"?

3. Who is the person called "the First and the Last"?

4. Who is the person called "the Beginning and the End"?

5. Who is the person that sent His angel to give the testimony for the churches?



(There are many more questions e.g. which testimony and what is the testimony etc etc etc but we don't even need to go that far)

Did you read the bible Quotes above from frosbel? -John 5:19-22. I know you wouldn't want to. But it will give you a clue as to what the Son does and what He says. So that when you read something like 'I and my Father are one' or 'I am the alpha and the omega' you will not get confused.

Ok. Jesus is God. How does it make Him greater or equal with the Father?(don't use the wrong assumption made by the phareseas who Christ said don't know the scripture to prove it) How does it support trinity?

Let us learn.

Enigma: To make things easier, here a few simple questions of basic comprehension in relation to the passage.

1. Who is "the God of the spirit of the prophets" who sent his angel?

2. Whos is the person called "the Alpha & Omega"?

3. Who is the person called "the First and the Last"?

4. Who is the person called "the Beginning and the End"?

5. Who is the person that sent His angel to give the testimony for the churches?



(There are many more questions e.g. which testimony and what is the testimony etc etc etc but we don't even need to go that far)

You forgot to ask:::::

Who is that almighty God that gave Jesus the revelations ,that Jesus gave to an angel,that the angel gave to john...??

We've answered all those questions u put up there...

Its up to you to keep holding on to the deluding trinity dogma....

You better go read deuteronomy 6:4 over and over again till your senses adjust

##American Standard Version
Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one
Jehovah:
........
##Darby Bible Translation
Hear, Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
........
##World English Bible
Hear, Israel: Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is
one:
......
##Young's Literal Translation
Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one
Jehovah;
....

Also Read this verse mark 12:29.....

Read those verses till u leave the trinity behind......

frosbel:

surely this is talking about God on one hand and Christ on the other , no ?

Why do you wish you remain in this difficult situation ?

That scripture doesn't even support the trinity.....

I wonder what image 123 wants.....

ijawkid: .... You better go read deuteronomy 6:4 over and over again till your senses adjust

Look, I have deliberately ignored your use of expressions as the bolded several times on various threads; next time you use such expression for me, I will direct you to people in your family much older than you. So, watch it.

Enigma:

Look, I have deliberately ignored your use of expressions as the bolded several times on various threads; next time you use such expression for me, I will direct you to people in your family much older than you. So, watch it.

Sorry my brother......

I apologize.....

I just zipped my mouth ....

I'm sorry....

Was just trying to make a stern point......

I'm sorry once more..

^^^ It's ok; I don't mind that you disagree or that you even disagree strongly about the "Trinity" . . . .

Enigma:

Look, I have deliberately ignored your use of expressions as the bolded several times on various threads; next time you use such expression for me, I will direct you to people in your family much older than you. So, watch it.

Please do tell us , why do the Jews hold on to their Shema as one of the most scared truths of Hebrew scripture .

If indeed we are to emulate the teachings of Jesus , why are we deviating from his doctrine which reiterates the Shema as :

English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one - Mark 12:29

Why does plain English not suffice to describe the person of God ?

Enigma: ^^^ It's ok; I don't mind that you disagree or that you even disagree strongly about the "Trinity" . . . .

But we are brothers......

^^^ Of course . . . .

Thank God we are now learning. I also like what this part of mark 12 says.

Mark 12:32-34
New International Version (NIV)
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man
replied. “YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS NO OTHER BUT HIM. 33 To love him with
all your heart, with all your
understanding and with all your
strength, and to love your neighbor
as yourself is more important than
all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had
answered wisely, he said to him,
“YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” And from then on no one
dared ask him any more questions.

Boomark: Thank God we are now learning. I also like what this part of mark 12 says.

Mark 12:32-34
New International Version (NIV)
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man
replied. “YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS NO OTHER BUT HIM. 33 To love him with
all your heart, with all your
understanding and with all your
strength, and to love your neighbor
as yourself is more important than
all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had
answered wisely, he said to him,
“YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” And from then on no one
dared ask him any more questions.

Amen brother.

Jesus came to show us the father and now they call him the father, he must be appalled at such confusion.

How can a Son be begotten , which means to be born and have a beginning , be also a Father.

So God is playing 3 roles in 3 different persons and yet he is ONE.

They will not address this scripture, they will quote another out of context verse expecting us to respond, while ignoring ours.

Image123: Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great ("God" and our Saviour ("Jesus Christ".

Two being refared to here bro... Dont confuse urself

Enigma:

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

First of all, did you read that Jesus claiming He is the Offspring of a natural man "DAVID"? so what does this Offspring means.
Offspring means when children inherit same or similar features from their mother and father.

The verse 12 of the above, God has sent Jesus to speak out, Jesus told us, He does nothing of His own authority.
Jesus was not claiming He was the true Speaker, even though it appears that He is the speak. See what He says: John 5:30 "I (Jesus)can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. He pass the Message God gave him to John. Just like you can see below, He also said He knows not the hour or day of his coming. When His father instructed Him, He does do/act in place of His Father, this doesn't mean we have to confused these words as directing to HIMSELF. You will see what Peter told the Crowd in on the Day of Pentecost, He didn't make mistake at all.

Matt 24:36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,(HIMSELF) but only the Father. (HIS GOD)

To all trinitarians....
Acts 2 The Holy Spirit Comes at Pentecost and Peter Addresses the Crowd: Tell me if Peter, Christ apostle Told the crowd that Jesus was God.

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.
18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
and they will prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood and fire and billows of smoke.
20 The sun will be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood
before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.
21 And everyone who calls
on the name of the Lord will be saved.’[s] Romans 10:13 In the name of Jesus Christ.[/s]
Now take note:
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this:[size=16pt]Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.[/size]

23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men,put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25 David said about him:

Did you see the word "CREDITED"? and again, "THROUGH Him"? Lets continue.....Peter still convincing them of Who JESUS REALLY IS......

29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the[b][size=16pt] patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on "oath" that he would place one of his descendants on his throne.[/size][/b] 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
35 until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”’[f]
36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart[b] and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

You can see that Peter didn't influenced the crowd, He truelly told them who Jesus is, He didn't tell them in anyway that Jesus is "God" but drag thier attention back to David for a proof.

What does a descendant means? One whose origin is traced in a line from another. Jesus was traced from DAVID. God promised David He will make Jesus sit on His throne as clearly seen.

So How is it that Peter didn't make this same error you are making? Search ur scripture very well, do not hold on to what you have been made to believe, by misunderstanding few scriptures, but hold on to what the bible teaches about Christ.

Enigma: To make things easier, here a few simple questions of basic comprehension in relation to the passage.

1. Who is "the God of the spirit of the prophets" who sent his angel?

2. Whos is the person called "the Alpha & Omega"?

3. Who is the person called "the First and the Last"?

4. Who is the person called "the Beginning and the End"?

5. Who is the person that sent His angel to give the testimony for the churches?



(There are many more questions e.g. which testimony and what is the testimony etc etc etc but we don't even need to go that far)

please, dont mixed things up, the title as in Alpha and Omega is exclusively for the father/Yahweh.

Jesus is also the first and the last in many ways. Col 1:18

He is the first born from the dead.
Also in the christian congregation he is all and all.

He will also be the ruler for a thousand years.

Revelation 1:16-18 is a reference to Jesus christ and the he is described as the first and the last and the reasons are given.
As you can see by reading that scripture the word Alpha and Omega is not mentioned cause it is a reference to Jesus christ.

If you handle issues like this you will only confuse things the more for people that wish to know the truth.

Maybe that is why catholics(RCC) ask that the name of Yahweh be removed from the bible so that people can be easily deceived.

Boomark: Thank God we are now learning. I also like what this part of mark 12 says.

Mark 12:32-34
New International Version (NIV)
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man
replied. “YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS NO OTHER BUT HIM. 33 To love him with
all your heart, with all your
understanding and with all your
strength, and to love your neighbor
as yourself is more important than
all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 When Jesus saw that he had
answered wisely, he said to him,
“YOU ARE NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD.” And from then on no one
dared ask him any more questions.

A closer look

Boomark:
Mark 12:32-34
New International Version (NIV)
32 “Well said, teacher,” the man
replied. “YOU ARE RIGHT IN SAYING THAT GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS NO OTHER BUT "HIM".

^^^
the use of the word HIM, pointing away from himself is very informative.

Him did not include himself in that.

truthislight:

please, dont miss things up, the title as in Alpha and Omega is exclusively for the father/Yahweh . . . .

Revelation 22

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

1. Who is the person that is coming with His reward that is with Him?

2. Is it God the Father?

3. Or is it Jesus Christ?

4. Is the person who is coming not the one referred to as Alpha and Omega?


So, now tell yourself (and not me),

truthislight: please, dont miss things up

It always good to start from the beginning and not from the middle.

The reward Christ is coming with is given to Him by the Father just as the promised Holy spirit He poured on all flesh was given to Him by the Father.
Acts2:33
33 Exalted to the right hand of
God, he has received from the
Father the promised Holy Spirit
and has poured out what you
now see and hear.

Col1:18
Christ is first in all things that why is the alpha and omega. First born of all creation...etc.