Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland
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| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba12345: 2:41pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
wiegraf: Then it wouldn't be so hard to read now, would it?, This argument is dealt with in the write-ups as well I gave your atheist pals one ayah (usually translated as 'verse') from the Quran and they were running helter-skelter... https://www.nairaland.com/990238/conversation-atheist |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba12345: 2:45pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
@wiegraf Your arguments are painfully weak... If we had nobel prizes, hundreds of years ago, they would have been won by muslims... The problems with the muslim world has been addressed in the first post, you really should do more reading |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by wiegraf: 3:40pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba12345: @wiegraf And this is one of the best responses I've come across yet. Conveniently ignoring the fact that the islamic world has not made any scientific progress in 100's of years, as I've already mentioned. Bury your head in the sand bro, it's your prerogative. "I like this book" You call this objective evidence? This 'really should read' thing, does it make you feel somehow... better? Like holier or something? I see, reading a book that describes a special hell for kaffirs while you also generally trample or support a cause that tramples on the rights of women, apostates, supports many other human rights violations somehow makes you holier than me. Or the book covers some earth shattering scientific/esoteric knowledge that you conveniently cannot put into words, making you wiser than me. I did read the article which argued for the case of your islamic god that you posted. That is certainly more relevant. And like I told you, it didn't offer anything new and it's conclusions were terribly flawed. I also don't read twilight, do you think that's a problem as well? You didn't address my issues. I'll be off either ways, this is a waste of time and they've let me back in to /religion. I'll be back to play if I sniff a half decent argument. No offense, but that's not likely, so this might be the last you see of me. Yay! |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 4:11pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba12345: I dont censor knowledge. The problem with many muslims is that they have no idea what the non-muslims really think about them. As a muslim, I dont eat pork. Now, think of a non-muslim who is a sportsman and has been eating pork since he was born. You expect that non-muslim to just accept that it makes sense not to eat pork when he is healthier than you and successful? tbaba12345: You must be kidding me. There is nothing special about classical Arabic. We should stop living in this Arab delusion. (We have many rich Arab clients in my company who act as if they are better than Westerners, when they have westerners managing their funds and IT solutions- why I call it Arab delusion) Try learning traditional Chinese or Sanskrit before you praise classical Arabic. Many historical texts have been translated into numerous languages. There will always be some difficulty in translations but sidenotes and footnotes are enough to explain deep philosophical writings. Please name something in the Classical Arabic that makes it special. I am sick of ignorant muslims in london telling me to learn Arabic- these same people that can not even explain basic passages in the Quran to children. tbaba12345: No probs. The question remains why it is a pillar. What do we gain in Saudi Arabia that we can not gain in Nigeria or is the Kaaba now something we must see once in our lifetime? tbaba12345: Did the Kaffir need to read the Quran in Arabic to complain that they cant marry our women? Abeg. Like I said, translations is difficult but there should be footnotes to explain difficulties. Should be enough tbaba12345: What monotheism? When we have gods of water, gods of thunder? Shirk was the way of our ancestors. See how you are falling into the Kaffir's trap? Denying you own identity!  |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 4:11pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
tbaba12345: I dont censor knowledge. The problem with many muslims is that they have no idea what the non-muslims really think about them. As a muslim, I dont eat pork. Now, think of a non-muslim who is a sportsman and has been eating pork since he was born. You expect that non-muslim to just accept that it makes sense not to eat pork when he is healthier than you and successful? tbaba12345: You must be kidding me. There is nothing special about classical Arabic. We should stop living in this Arab delusion. (We have many rich Arab clients in my company who act as if they are better than Westerners, when they have westerners managing their funds and IT solutions- why I call it Arab delusion) Try learning traditional Chinese or Sanskrit before you praise classical Arabic. Many historical texts have been translated into numerous languages. There will always be some difficulty in translations but sidenotes and footnotes are enough to explain deep philosophical writings. Please name something in the Classical Arabic that makes it special. I am sick of ignorant muslims in london telling me to learn Arabic- these same people that can not even explain basic passages in the Quran to children. tbaba12345: No probs. The question remains why it is a pillar. What do we gain in Saudi Arabia that we can not gain in Nigeria or is the Kaaba now something we must see once in our lifetime? tbaba12345: Did the Kaffir need to read the Quran in Arabic to complain that they cant marry our women? Abeg. Like I said, translations is difficult but there should be footnotes to explain difficulties. Should be enough tbaba12345: What monotheism? When we have gods of water, gods of thunder? Shirk was the way of our ancestors. See how you are falling into the Kaffir's trap? Denying you own identity! |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by Kay17: 5:18pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Tbaba you didn't respond to my post. |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba12345: 10:04pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
I dont censor knowledge. The problem with many muslims is that they have no idea what the non-muslims really think about them. As a muslim, I dont eat pork. Now, think of a non-muslim who is a sportsman and has been eating pork since he was born. You expect that non-muslim to just accept that it makes sense not to eat pork when he is healthier than you and successful? The reason you do not eat pork as a muslim is not because of some health reasons... It is because it is direct commandment from God, any health benefits are secondary... It is reason why you do not take Usury or Interest, direct commandment from God... Your adherence depends on your conviction that this is the word of God... If you are truely convinced, maybe that is where your problem lies... Maybe you have to study the basis for this claim AbdulSleek: A few years ago, i would probably have had this attitude too.... Trust me, you have got absolutely no clue when it come to the ancient Arabic language ..... When you go into the intricacies of Arabic grammar, It is no arabic delusion... It is mind-blowing stuff... I would suggest that you look through this thread where i did a bit of discussion about the language : https://www.nairaland.com/972776/amazing-quran-season-1 You seem to have a lot of resentment of the muslims around you, people can not be perfect or be like you want them to be... We can only try.... No probs. The question remains why it is a pillar. What do we gain in Saudi Arabia that we can not gain in Nigeria or is the Kaaba now something we must see once in our lifetime? Again, like before, a muslim should be intellectually convinced that the Quran as a text could only be divine.. I think your problem lies in one or both of these two areas: i. You are not entirely convinced of the Quran ii. You do not see that the Quran offers practical solutions to your problems... I would suggest that you go through the following threads: i. https://www.nairaland.com/972776/amazing-quran-season-1 ii. https://www.nairaland.com/1007823/journey-through-quran-amazing-quran iii. https://www.nairaland.com/1029189/divine-speech-season-1 Maybe you will start to appreciate the Quran a bit more... Once you are convinced of the Quran, following its directions are a natural consequence.. Did the Kaffir need to read the Quran in Arabic to complain that they cant marry our women? Abeg. Like I said, translations is difficult but there should be footnotes to explain difficulties. Should be enough Who is a kaffir? A kaffir does not mean a non-muslim... It means one who has rejected the truth or buried it... It presents the imagery of a farmer burying seeds.... A kaffir is one who buries the seeds of truth within himself.. Not all non muslims are kaffirs.. A person who has never heard of Islam before or heard about it in its true form can not be considered a kaffir. It took me two lines to explain what a kaffir actually means... For some arabic words, you need to write entire passages to explain them because the english is grossly insufficient. The ancient arabic presents beautiful imagery that illustrates the sophistication that the ancient arabs had developed with their words... What monotheism? When we have gods of water, gods of thunder? In the yoruba tradition for instance, the gods were a means to communicate to the ONE supreme God... The basis of many polytheistic faith is rooted in motheism... In islam, We know that everyone got a messenger, we also know that humans as is very common corrupted that message... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba12345: 10:04pm On Oct 10, 2012 |
Kay 17: Tbaba you didn't respond to my post. Bros no vex |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by DevotedOne(m): 12:08am On Oct 11, 2012 |
In The Name of The Only GOD, Allah, The Very Merciful, The All Merciful, The Praiseworthy. As salaamu 'alaykum, The peace be on you, everyone. The Bounteous Qur'an has the power to reform and unify the Muslim Ummah. I'am told that Ahadith is also needed to understand the Noble Qur'an, but I got along well enough without it until recently. Some hadith are confusing. But the biggest problem that I can see for the Ummah, is the fact that we have for some long time now, been infiltrated. This is most obvious when we look at the descendents of the Prophet Muhammad [S.A.A.W.], who were assassinated. Wassalaam. DevotedOne |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba12345: 10:11am On Oct 11, 2012 |
Kay 17: Note that most societies are pluralistic, they have gone beyond Jewish, Christian communities and multicultures. How is this mix to be managed? Would atheists, agnostics, pagans have to live under islamic laws to manage their affairs? And what's the role of free speech? Will free speech be limited to socially correct free speech? There have always been multiple communities in Muslim lands... In baghdad, there used to be debates between muslim scholars and the daariya (the equivalent atheists of the time). So these guys have always existed in our societies... It is not as if it is a new scenario... Free speech will be limited to what is socially acceptable just like it is everywhere... Absolute free speech is an aberration. All across europe, there are laws against hate speech... The other day, a british man was convicted because he wished for the 'death of british soldiers in afghanistan' on facebook... That is in Britain.... We can't not be hypocrites and pretend that there are not already restrictions to speech across the western world... Just type hate speech laws on google and see how many countries already have those laws in their books.. For muslims, the Quran is the absolute truth... However, It is not a scientific textbook... There are a few scientific statement here and there but it is largely a book of guidance... It places very little restrictions on what should be researched... Because we are convinced of the absolute truth of the Quran, any scientific research sponsored by the state is carried out with that as an already established premise... This is why i said that research in historical animals by muslims would not be to prove a macro-evolution theory but to study the history of the earth... All scientific research are based on already established premises... For muslims, clear statements made by the Quran are absolute and are established premises .... We might look a little deeper into ambiguous statements... Stem cell research is promising but the problem people have with it are ethical... If it is done to improve human health then great.. However, the use of aborted fetuses, i do not think is necessarily ethical... Its only success thus far is for the bone marrow... The pros and the cons will have to be looked at by the experts (scientists and religious scholars) to see if the benefits outweigh the issues.. The same goes for each area of research... If it can be done ethically and is shown to have benefits then i don't see why not... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 9:03pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
tbaba12345: I'm quite impressed. You diagnosed my problem very well. Unlike Maclatunji and LagosShai that cant even handle debate against non-muslim point of view without exploding into anger and inferiority complex. If you have read my threads, yoo will see that I am having problems with my faith. As a finance man, I am trained to make logical decisions based on evidence (numbers). Now, how can Allah give a command that is not logical? There is logic in many commandments in the Quran. However, there are commandments I struggle with. Even something as simple as pork? Seriously, I have never eaten pork in my life but what is the reason behind such? Well cooked pork is the same as well cooked beef after they have both been trimmed. What reason can anyone give me? Concerning your threads on the Quran, they are interesting to read. There is much wisdom in the Quran, no doubt about that. My issue is the problem with certain commands. I have lived with western christians and unbelievers most of my life. Many of them live by simple rules that hardly leaves them in a contradictory position. We muslims have rules that are ridiculous to non-muslim. I think many muslims havent tried Dawah in the west and so, they havent seen how our rules can be easily ridiculed. Concerning the muslims around me, what I find in my workplace is that out of every 3 muslim co-workers/ clients, one is actually a fool when it comes to islam. they dont even know about their religion but complain about Kaffir. Tell them to explain their actions with the help of the Quran and they would be repeating what the imam said rather than opening the Quran online for themselves. Now, I dont classify you as one of those fools that doesnt know what is in the Quran. Yo know your stuff excellently! I an tell that you have a lot of experience discussing these issues. However, I dont know if you live with many non-muslims and can see where I am coming from? |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba1234: 6:22am On Oct 12, 2012 |
AbdulSleek: I'm quite impressed. You diagnosed my problem very well. Unlike Maclatunji and LagosShai that cant even handle debate against non-muslim point of view without exploding into anger and inferiority complex. I haven't done anything extraordinary, your scenario is one that repeats itself often and it is tragedy really, Because if people knew how incredible this book is, these kinds of questions will not even arise..... I am currently studying the whole of the Quran and to be honest, i have experienced all kinds of emotions, It is mind blowing, mesmerising stuff... I am not even doing an indepth study and i am half distracted most of the time... It is a huge tragedy that we do not know these things about the Quran.. Like i said, if one is convinced that the Quran is beyond the productive capacity of a Man and is from God then obeying its commands are easy... And, if it is from God, You will not neccessarily be able to fit everything in the frame of your logic... If Allah is all-wise.. Such an argument will be one from Ignorance or just a show of Intellectual Arrogance... You can refer to the story of Musa in surah kafh of the Quran, from ayah 60.. It shows how God's wisdom sometimes defies the scope of our logic. A muslim means one who submits; We hear and obey the command when it comes... we will not always understand it. The first line to cross is to be convinced that this book could not have come from a man and the prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him) could not possibly be a liar. After that, the rest is easy... The big question is, Is this the truth? Why am i following it? Many muslim kids can not answer this question because we do not teach them about this book. This is something i want my kids to understand (Ofcourse when i do have them)... I want them to know why they are muslims and show them how Islam offers for them practical life solutions... I want them to know why they are muslims and be able to articulate it. Concerning your threads on the Quran, they are interesting to read. There is much wisdom in the Quran, no doubt about that. My issue is the problem with certain commands. I have lived with western christians and unbelievers most of my life. Many of them live by simple rules that hardly leaves them in a contradictory position. We muslims have rules that are ridiculous to non-muslim. I think many muslims havent tried Dawah in the west and so, they havent seen how our rules can be easily ridiculed. I currently live in the US so i am exposed to many non-muslims... I know exactly where you are coming from because it is a common scenario particularly amongst young muslim kids... I have tried dawah in the west, but i talk about the central ideas of Islam and why it makes common sense... Talking about aspects of laws with someone who does not share the same values would definitely lead to disagreements. That is not what Islam calls to... Submission to your master is the first thing, then you follow the laws... I do not try and give logical answers to Questions about our practises because even when they are logical reasons, the number one reason is that Allah commanded it.. My duty is to show you why the Quran is the word of God and show you why Islam makes common sense... I always shift the logical discussions to the central message of Islam. Once a person is convinced of that, following law is simple. I feel like the more you study the Quran with an intellectual humility, the better it gets... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba1234: 6:43am On Oct 12, 2012 |
I read that some people are suggesting that you are logicboy... I hope not!! |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 8:55am On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: I read that some people are suggesting that you are logicboy... I hope not!! Do you honestly believe that you have been talking to an unbeliever? Seriously? |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 9:01am On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: The above quote summarises all you have been saying. You say that you are going to have kids. If your kids are going to grow up in the west, it will be difficult for you to tell them what I hve just quoted from you when they are 18 years old. The West is moving towards a society based on science and numbers. Where is the evidence for your claims. The USA VP debate was on last night. Both candidates were asking "where is the evidence for that?" |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba1234: 9:45am On Oct 12, 2012 |
^ If they know, what i have learnt... they will have all the evidence they need... That said, Teenagers are a different breed of humans... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 4:01pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: ^ If they know, what i have learnt... they will have all the evidence they need... You will remember what I have told you in the future. We didnt grow up in the internet age. Our children will |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba1234: 8:45pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
There are many great muslim kids in the west who grew up in the internet age... Looking back at your posts, i noticed some'logicboy' signatures... Anyone can be anyone online.... Hopefully, that is not the case... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 8:48pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
tbaba1234: There are many great muslim kids in the west who grew up in the internet age... Please show me these "logicboy" signatures. |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba1234: 12:48am On Oct 13, 2012 |
AbdulSleek: Please show me these "logicboy" signatures. There are quite a number, i. Logicboy does not discuss Islam without a reference to the fact that Muslim women do not marry non-muslim men... This definitely raised a red flag: Did the Kaffir need to read the Quran in Arabic to complain that they cant marry our women? Abeg. Like I said, translations is difficult but there should be footnotes to explain difficulties. Should be enough It is like an obsession for him ii. Logicboy ends his arguments, whenever he feels he has made a point with a smiley... Another red flag, as there was no need for it.. There are private sector and public sector jobs. Some governments devleop a sector of the economy by owning and investing in it (creating public sector jobs)and then, when the sector is growing properly, they get private organisations to invest and particiapte, thereby creating private sector jobs. There are a few more, but these are common logic boy signatures... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 3:34pm On Oct 13, 2012 |
tbaba1234: Seriously? Many people put smileys on their comments for effect as well. I think, you are used to living with muslims that dont ask questions. |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by AbdulSleek(m): 3:40pm On Oct 13, 2012 |
Please, keep calling me logicboy. If that holds true, then you are a fool for actually believing that I'm a believer in the first place. Fortunately, it is not so. |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by tbaba1234: 6:04pm On Oct 13, 2012 |
AbdulSleek: I do not have problems with questions... Your line of questions and concerns compared with that of logicboy are mirror reflections.... Even the thread topics are things logicboy talks about... We are just following the clues... Anyone can be anyone online... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by maclatunji: 4:17pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
No derailment. |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by GhostFaceKiller: 4:18pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
maclatunji: No derailment. no tolerance? |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by maclatunji: 4:27pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
GhostFaceKiller: |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by GhostFaceKiller: 4:45pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
[quote author=maclatunji][/quote] how bout islam haters? |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by free2ryhme: 7:28pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
islamic dis, islamic dat .. You can never force y views on others.. U R SUFFERING FROM LACK OF RELEVANCE .... |
| Re: Islamic Civilisation, Islamic Law And Reforming The Islamic Society. by mmmustapha(m): 7:30pm On Oct 15, 2012 |
Qur'an is a solution to all problems of mankind, its light n guidance. |
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