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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? (8861 Views)
How God Came Into Existence. / Who Created God? / Where Did God Come From? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by wiegraf: 9:48am On Oct 11, 2012 |
ayobase: When you see something complex, you assume lots of simple things combined together to ultimately form the complex. It is simple + simple = complex in nature, that is the way it universally is, with energy in all its forms mutating/combining to form more complex. God is as complex as it gets, yet if we are to assume something has always existed, wouldn't it be illogical to assume it acquired complexity from nowhere? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Kay17: 10:41am On Oct 11, 2012 |
Thanks so much wiegraf! Well said. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by OLAADEGBU(m): 10:58am On Oct 11, 2012 |
Mr_Anony: This, I believe, answers the OP's curiosity. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 11:34am On Oct 11, 2012 |
wiegraf: This is not true. All science shows that the simple takes its character from the complex, not the other way around. The simple is entirely an "unraveling" of the complex. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by wiegraf: 11:38am On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by DeeTeeMan: 11:42am On Oct 11, 2012 |
It seems most of this discussion seems to be boiling down to semantics rather than a good feel for the points each other is making. Words cannot describe everything and that is why semantics can be counter-productive in debates. A bit of more regard and respect for each other's point of view will really go a long way to having excellent debate on issues, generally. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by wiegraf: 11:49am On Oct 11, 2012 |
DeeTeeMan: It seems most of this discussion seems to be boiling down to semantics rather than a good feel for the points each other is making. Words cannot describe everything and that is why semantics can be counter-productive in debates. A bit of more regard and respect for each other's point of view will really go a long way to having excellent debate on issues, generally. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 11:59am On Oct 11, 2012 |
wiegraf: The following are by no means my concept of God. They're analogies of my assertion about the simple taking character from the complex. Can you explain photons? What are they? How is it that an individual photon is massless but when matter is fully converted into energy, i.e. photons, this system of photons together retain the rest mass of the converted matter? What is the uncertainty principle? Why such a principle at all? Is an electron a particle or a wave? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 12:16pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Sirniyeh: Hello everbody, Which therefore means we are all one and all different parts of God. We all are God,we created everything around us- we are all co - creators. We chose to create this negative reality we call "Nigera" |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 12:19pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Reyginus: What is this?SMH That is what you call an advanced mind fool. All you will ever know is the bible midget! |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by wiegraf: 12:43pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: You refer to the properties of particles, not the content of the particles themselves. To be fair, the properties are sometimes particles in some form or the other (eg gravity, the forces). Either ways, you're still mistaken. I would think matter is more complex than energy, isn't it? There are more ingredients in a particle with mass than in a massless one Even for energy, they are all made of smaller, simpler particles, except for where the regress ends. They combine and create a bigger, more complex particles with more in them. As for properties, uncertainty and wave/particle are scales, or degrees. In other words, you are both a wave and a solid object, and uncertainty still applies to you. The effects become lesser by orders of magnitude as you approach the macroscopic scale, but they never fully disappear, ever. So you still have these properties, just negligibly, along with a few others due to synergies*. There might be properties truly lost, I'm not sure, but I doubt it. *Hence the whole einstein tale of him bitching to anyone who would listen about how the moon was there whether he was observing it or not, a response to his reservations over wave/particle and observer. He's been proven wrong... For now |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by plaetton: 12:52pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
wiegraf: Excellent |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by plaetton: 12:56pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: What? Lord have mercy! Mr Ihedinobi, where do you get your own version of science? From which alternate universe? Why do You come here everyday to murder science. You obviously do not have a background in science, and you only read snipets from wiki just for the sake of argument. That is a great folly. Science is not like religion where you can chose the OT or the NT to justify any argument when it suits you. Leave science alone. It is obviously not your forte. You cannot teach a new trick to an old dog. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by plaetton: 1:09pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
ifeness: This is true. We are all part of the singularity. Everything that exists simply is. We were all there. we have always been there, and will always be part of the whole. No one did any creating. If anyone created, that entity has to be outside of creation itself. And if so, then by simply logic, that entity simply cannot exist within that which is created. So within the limits of created existence, god does not exist. But if it exists out side of creation, who can even even fathom that, and who cares what may exist outside of creation? 1 Like |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by mkmyers45(m): 1:14pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi:Dark Matter deals with dissociation of energy into expanding space and not the above...Energy cannot be created or destroyed because the total energy in the universe remains unchanged and perfect interplay of these energy is largely observable....and you cannot destroy or create energy |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by mkmyers45(m): 1:16pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi:You are muddling it up..Matter/Mass is a property of all energy, and energy is a property of all mass, and the two properties are connected by a constant...as wiegraf pointed out All things are affected by uncertainty.. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 1:19pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
mkmyers45: Dark Matter deals with dissociation of energy into expanding space and not the above...Energy cannot be created or destroyed because the total energy in the universe remains unchanged and perfect interplay of these energy is largely observable....and you cannot destroy or create energy What makes the human biolgical body function is energy. When it leaves the body,the body dies. Same applies to eveything we see around us! We all are a bunch of indestructive energy. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Kay17: 3:56pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
As far as I see it, science reduces all phenonema |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by shawl: 4:50pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Holy Qur'an chapter 112, can be roughly translated like this: Say, "He is Allah, One(Unique), Allah, the Eternal Refuge. He begets not and neither is He begotten, And there is none unto like Him" Here the holy prophet Muhammad, s.a.w, was made to teach the people the perfect understanding about Allah, God Almighty. It is very easy to understand about God Almighty from a religion. But that religion must be founded on perfect doctrines. That is why many people are confused today because they have been raised upon certain beliefs which can not now stand their grounds in the modern world. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:11pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Kayoski: Since this thread is about to be hijacked by those who don't even believe in the One and only God, and you will not answer my question, let me give you my 2 pence worth of view when a few brethren have hinted at. We observe that everything is created out of something but I can say that God is not created out of something because God is not a thing. The mere fact that everything is created or has a beginning does not mean that God should have a creator or a beginning too. If we insist that someone or something created God then there must have been a bigger God who created that God and a bigger, bigger God who created that bigger God who created God. Then a bigger, bigger, bigger God who created the bigger, bigger God who created the bigger, bigger God who created the bigger God who created God. This leads us to infinity - the Infinite God who lives in eternity, for eternity is the lifetime of the never dying God. Who then is this God? He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The biggest God of all. He is the creator of everything. Nothing and no one is bigger than Him. He was not created but has always existed. He is the beginning (Alpha) and the end (Omega). This leads us to what the Bible says about Him: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" (Genesis 1:1). God was already there at the beginning of creation as He created all things for His pleasure and glory. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 5:19pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
ifeness:Dude why the insult. Do you mind explaining how we are the first cause? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by DeepSight(m): 8:17pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
thehomer: What? I should bury my brain simply to eat hook line and sinker the views of others? Aside: you have not pointed out how the first premise of the CA is flawed: do things begin without causes or triggers? Oya, say so na. Who says infinite space and infinite time actually exist? I am happy you have asked this question because tonite I AM OPENING a thread for you and Martian to answer some questions on TIME. As to your question, your comrade in arms, Idehn, took a similar position, and when I opened a thread to rebutt it, he went AWOL. Please here are my rebuttals - answer them if you will. https://www.nairaland.com/970734/contentions-idehn-existence-god-time |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Sirniyeh(m): 8:35pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Obalola, your question is cacochocoshious! Have you read the history that Moses spoke to sea, the sea hearken and divided. Elijah spoke to fire and the fire hearken. How many pastors in Nigeria have ever done something relating to that? Kudos to TB Joshua and Oyakhilome, their secret is commanding the spirit. What your pastor can not do with 1000 days of prayer, bitter leaf can do it within minutes. So my son can not die because I know how to engage and commune with thin air to take control. It is a mystery. Every dead people becomes ghost in the thin air, they therefore turn to minister for us. Depending on your spiritual frequency, they make friend with you ignorantly, and you can command them to ward off all manner of evil. It does not need ritual. Thats the secret |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 10:33pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
wiegraf: Ok. Let's handle the simple/complex argument holistically. I'm of the persuasion that the complex produces the simple, a devolution rather than evolution. By that I mean that if there's an absolute/final/ultimate reality, it must necessarily be more complex than every other reality contingent upon it. I will deliberate leave the instances I gave initially to show this and use another which I consider a little more immediately conceivable. Let's consider the seed and the tree. Which would you consider more complex and why? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 10:44pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
mkmyers45: You are muddling it up..Matter/Mass is a property of all energy, and energy is a property of all mass, and the two properties are connected by a constant...as wiegraf pointed out All things are affected by uncertainty.. Ok. Why does it affect all things? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by wiegraf: 10:49pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: Tree |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 10:52pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
mkmyers45: Dark Matter deals with dissociation of energy into expanding space and not the above...Energy cannot be created or destroyed because the total energy in the universe remains unchanged and perfect interplay of these energy is largely observable....and you cannot destroy or create energy Do you know of any failed attempts to do either? Why did such attempts fail? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by Nobody: 10:52pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
wiegraf: Why? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by mkmyers45(m): 11:41pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi:Quantum mechanics and mainstream physics are not the same..anyway Uncertainty arises solely as a result of Matter-Wave Nature so it affects all things as it is a fundamental property of quantum systems. Every Particle exhibit both wave and particle properties. |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by mkmyers45(m): 11:43pm On Oct 11, 2012 |
Ihedinobi:You cannot create what is can you? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by wiegraf: 12:12am On Oct 12, 2012 |
Ihedinobi: It has a lot more in it, including seeds... Btw, you do know about the conservation of energy, yes? |
Re: Who Created God Or How Did God Come Into Existence? by DeeTeeMan: 3:56pm On Oct 12, 2012 |
Guys, gbajumos and oloyes if you can try to replace what you call God with NATURE then you can see where your points (and opinions) fit-in with the global picture. |
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