frosbel: Joan Osborne poses an interesting question. “What if God were one of us?” What if He was an everyday Joe trying to get by in this life? Who would He be, and what would He look like? Modern Christianity attempts to answer this question through the person of Jesus Christ. Many Christians believe he was fully God and fully human, in a sense saying, “Hey Joan! Look to Jesus! He’s God! That’ll answer your questions and now you don’t have to sing that song anymore!” Most of us would at least be thankful for that.

What I am not thankful for is the horrendous and abundant contradictions that are created by this belief that Jesus Christ is very God of very God. What I want to focus on in this paper are the consequences of having a Savior who could not have truly died.

It is taught amongst many denominations that Jesus Christ died for our sins, but only in part. His man nature was placed in the grave and his God nature ascended to heaven. This idea is not supported by Scripture, in fact, the opposite holds true when we take the time to read our Bible. This way of viewing Jesus creates a lot of unresolved questions, of which I will address a few, but first I wish to focus on the following quote that is pretty standard of most Trinitarians.

“Only God could have died for our sins. No mere man could have possibly paid the price for all of man-kinds sin.”

With a nod of the head and an amen, this phrase is accepted by millions of Christians, yet for those who take the time to open their Bibles, a picture appears that is altogether different from the one that is painted from the pulpit. It is taught that only God could die for our sins, and that he chose to do so by manifesting himself as Jesus Christ. Yet when he died, his God nature returned to heaven, while his man nature went into the grave. This negates the very belief that only God can die for our sins because he doesn’t actually die! He goes back to heaven and the flesh he put on goes into the grave leaving us right back where we started! This leaves us in quite a predicament because if, according to this belief, God didn’t die – then our faith is in vain. Let us consider for a moment, what it would mean to our faith if Jesus Christ did not fully die. [For further study read How can a man atone for the sins of mankind?

1. We would have no mediator
Romans 5:10
For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

Hebrews 9:15b
Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance– now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

2. We would have no Lord
Philippians 2:8-11
(8 ) And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death– even death on a cross!
(9) Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
(10) that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
(11) and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

3. Our Hope for eternal life would be rendered futile
Acts 2:23- 24, and 26-27a
(23) This man was handed over to you by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
(24) But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
(26) Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will live in hope,
(27) because you will not abandon me to the grave.

4. We would have no salvation
Hebrews 5:7-9
(7) During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
(8 ) Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered
(9) and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

You may say that I am going too far. That dying in any part would have fulfilled the requirements for salvation and a Savior because God is God, and He can do things however He wants. Well, true as that may be, God says in His Word what must be necessary for Christ to fulfill his role as our Savior.
Hebrews 9:16-17

(16) “In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it,
(17) because a will is in force only when somebody has died (Nekros); it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.”

These verses mean exactly what they say. In order for a will to be carried out there must be undisputable evidence that the one who died is in fact dead. I would say that if half of Christ was alive in heaven, in the form of God, and half was dead, than there would be enough evidence that he was not in fact dead and therefore all of the above promises would not be fulfilled.

The Greek word for “Death” or “Died” in this verse:
Nekros {nek-ros’}
Meaning:
1) properly 1a) one that has breathed his last, lifeless 1b) deceased, departed, one whose soul is in Hades 1c) destitute of life, without life, inanimate
2) metaph. 2a) spiritually dead 2a1) destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins 2a2) inactive as respects doing right 2b) destitute of power or force, inactive, inoperative.

That is exactly what happened to Jesus, he died (Nekros). God cannot die (1 Tim. 1:17).

Hebrews 13:20-21
(20) May the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead (Nekros) our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep,
(21) equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Consider for a moment what it really means to serve a Jesus who did not fully die, and who therefore could not have fulfilled all of the wonderful promises that the Bible speaks of. Be thankful that we truly do serve a risen Lord who was willing to face death upon a cross for our sake, so that we could have eternal life!

Source

ifeness:


The one and only message is love. All the bible verses dont matter.

ifeness:


The one and only message is love. All the bible verses dont matter.

ijawkid:

The bible verses matter.....

With the lies been spread that 50 % of Jesus is what died those verses are needed...

They say 50% of Jesus died,then I wonder what percentage of Jesus was ressurected.....

How can millions of people gulp in such heresy and lie for centuries, all just to prove 1 pagan dogma that has no connection with the scriptures.......

tintingz: God can never die and nobody can die for anybody sin(written in OT bible) and Jesus did'nt die(the sign of Jonah) he was saved by God and raised to heaven.

tidytim:
All other prophets are DEAD and buried, waiting for the loud call of the arch angel for a final resurrection and judgement.

tintingz: ^^^ remeber God said in OT bible [b]"no one can sacrifice himself for another" [/b]moreover Jesus said about a sign which will be "THE SIGN OF JONAH" you know the story of Jonah. . .can you explain what Jesus meant by this sign?

tintingz: ^^^ this is what Jesus said from his own mouth about the SIGN that will happen to him
"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40"
it's left for you to tell me if Jonah is a dead man or alive in the fish belly. . .i don't have time to start telling stories cuz this is what the "son of man(Jesus)" as said will be the sign.

frosbel:
But Jesus said :
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth
Do you believe Jesus when he said he will be in the heart of the earth (grave) for 3 days ?

tintingz: being in the tomb is not my point. . .my real point is "is Jonah a dead man or alive in the fish belly?" if Mary could go to the tomb where Jesus was buried to "anoint" a 3days dead body?? Why would someone woke up early in the morning to massage a 3days dead body when it's not possible. . .something is realy fishy in that tomb.

frosbel:
Do you understand Jewish burial rites ?
Are we to believe Jesus's account of his death or that of tintingz.
Jesus predicted time and time again that he will die and be raised from the dead , and the apostles recorded this great event in detail.
If you care to know, I can provide you with scriptural evidence , both from the new and old testaments.

tintingz: Lol. . .jewish burial rite?? Well lets keep that aside. . .you have'nt answer my question if Jonah is a deadman or alive in the fish belly. . .if you have the scriptures evidence that Jesus die, so i have and will provide scriptures evidence that Jesus did'nt die in that same bible you carry about both OT and NT. First i need to know why Jesus use Jonah as a sign for his death coming(if he truly die)

There are actual reported cases in more recent times of men who have survived the ordeal of being swallowed by a whale.

The Princeton Theological Review (Oct., 1927) tells of two incidents, one in 1758 and the other in 1771, in which a man was swallowed by a whale and vomited up shortly thereafter with only minor injuries.

One of the most striking instances comes from Francis Fox, Sixty Three Years of Engineering (pp. 295-300), who reports that this incident was carefully investigated by two scientists (one of whom was M. DeParville, the scientific editor of the Journal Des Debars in Paris).

In February, 1891, the whaling ship, Star of the East, was in the vicinity of the Falkland Islands, and the lookout sighted a large sperm whale three miles away. Two boats were lowered and in a short time, one of the harpooners was enabled to spear the creature.

The second boat also attacked the whale, but was then upset by a lash of its tail, so that its crew fell into the sea. One of them was drowned, but the other, James Bartley, simply disappeared without a trace. After the whale was killed, the crew set to work with axes and spades removing the blubber.

They worked all day and part of the night. The next day they attached some tackle to the stomach, which was hoisted on deck. The sailors were startled by something in it which gave spasmodic signs of life, and inside was found the missing sailor, doubled up and unconscious. He was laid on the deck and treated to a bath of sea water which soon revived him.

At the end of the third week, he had entirely recovered from the shock and resumed his duties. His face, and neck and hands were bleached to a deadly whiteness and took on the appearance of parchment. Bartley affirms that he would probably have lived inside his house of flesh until he starved, for he lost his senses through fright and not through lack of air." (A Survey of Old Testament Introduction), p. 302.

tintingz: ^^^ remeber God said in OT bible "no one can sacrifice himself for another" moreover Jesus said about a sign which will be "THE SIGN OF JONAH" you know the story of Jonah. . .can you explain what Jesus meant by this sign?

frosbel:
What is an allegory ?
and please do show me verses in the bible where Jesus did not die, for every one you provide , I promise to match with 5 verses that prove he died.

truthislight:
sign of Jonah is death and resurrection of christ.

tintingz: God can never die and nobody can die for anybody sin(written in OT bible) and Jesus did'nt die(the sign of Jonah) he was saved by God and raised to heaven.

Stalwert: Off course jesus shouting my lord my lord why have though forsaken clearly means he wasn't even prepared to die!

Frosbel should throw away the bible and pick the Qur'an in which instructions are clearly written, not 50% dead or alive!

tintingz: you mean Jonah died by that sign?? Good!
@frosbel. . .me no buy that your article or story you posted. . .i only want to know if Jesus didn't know Jonah is alive in the fish belly before giving that prophecy or he knows what he meant by using Jonah sign for his prophecy . . .cuz as will all know Jonah was alive in the fish belly for 3days and night.

Stalwert: Off course jesus shouting my lord my lord why have though forsaken clearly means he wasn't even prepared to die!

Frosbel should throw away the bible and pick the Qur'an in which instructions are clearly written, not 50% dead or alive!

truthislight:
Jonah stayed in the fish belly for three days and Jesus was in the grave for three days.
If you are a muslim you will not want to accept this truth.

plappville:
Interesting !!!!! More light Sir.
Watchin' from the side !!!!

tintingz: you guys are not answering my main point. . .ok Jonah was in the fish belly for 3 days so Jesus was in the grave for 3 days, was Jonah a deadman in the fish belly?? Please answer Frobel and truthislight don't ignore this cuz i have more scriptures to backup that Jesus didn't die.

tintingz: and keep watching

plappville:

Yess oo.

I think your qustion is very clear, but its very trickish as well....so am still watching!!

plappville:
Yess oo.
I think your qustion is very clear, but its very trickish as well....so am still watching!!