Continueing.............


One of the most interesting of these lesser deities, Asherah, plays a very important role in the Old Testament. There she is called the wife of Baal; but she is also known as the consort of Yahweh! That is, among some Yahwists, Ahserah is Yahweh’s female counterpart! Inscriptions found at Kuntillet ‘Ajrud (dated between 850 and 750 BCE) say:

I bless you through Yahweh of Samaria,

and through his Asherah!

And at ‘El Qom (from the same period) this inscription:

Uriyahu, the king, has written this.

Blessed be Uriyahu through Yahweh,

and his enemies have been conquered

through Yahweh’s Asherah.


That Yahwists worshipped Asherah until the 3rd century before Christ is well known from the Elephantine Papyri. Thus, for many in ancient Israel, Yahweh, like Baal, had a consort. Although condemned by the prophets, this aspect of the popular religion of Israel was difficult to overcome and indeed among many was never overcome.

As had already been mentioned, one of the more important lesser deities at Ugarit was Baal. Baal is described as the “rider on the clouds” in KTU 1.3 II 40. Interestingly enough, this description is also used of Yahweh in Psalm 68:5.

And this is even more explosive,



In the Old Testament Baal is named 58 times in the singular and 18 times in the plural. The prophets protested constantly against the love affair the Israelites had with Baal (cf. Hosea 2:19, for example). The reason Israel was so attracted to Baal was that, first of all, some Israelites viewed Yahweh as a God of the desert and so when they arrived in Canaan they thought it only proper to adopt Baal, the god of fertility. As the old saying goes, “whose land, his god”. For these Israelites Yahweh was useful in the desert but not much help in the land.


There is one Ugaritic text which seems to indicate that among the inhabitants of Ugarit, Yahweh was viewed as another son of El. KTU 1.1 IV 14 says:

sm . bny . yw . ilt

“The name of the son of god, Yahweh.”


[color=#000099](What?) Yahweh the son of El? hhhmmmmm!

[/color] This text seems to show that Yahweh was known at Ugarit, though not as the Lord but as one of the many sons of El.

Among the other gods worshipped at Ugarit there are Dagon, Tirosch, Horon, Nahar, Resheph, Kotar Hosis, Shachar (who is the equivalent of Satan), and Shalem. The folks at Ugarit were also plagued by a host of demons and lesser gods. The people at Ugarit saw the desert as the place which was most inhabited by demons (and they were like the Israelites in this belief). KTU 1.102:15-28 is a list of these demons.

One of the most famous of the lesser deities at Ugarit was a chap named Dan’il. There is little doubt that this figure corresponds to the Biblical Daniel; while predating him by several centuries. This has led many Old Testament scholars to suppose that the Canonical prophet was modeled on him. His story is found in KTU 1.17 - 1.19.

Another creature which has ties to the Old Testament is Leviathan. Isaiah 27:1 and KTU 1.5 I 1-2 describe this beast. Also see Ps 74:13-14 and 104:26.

Explosive indeed.

And finally,


9. Conclusion

Since the discovery of the Ugaritic texts, study of the Old Testament has never been the same. We now have a much clearer picture of Canaanite religion than we ever had before. We also understand the Biblical literature itself much better as we are now able to clarify difficult words due to their Ugaritic cognates.

The student who is interested in the earliest, and therfore formative, period of Israel’s history are heartily encouraged to read Niels Lemche’s “Early Israel”.


So Mr Anony, either upgrade your biblical knowledge or bury your head in the sand and cling on to an abbreviated, incomplete and much obfuscated version of ancient Hebrew History.

Hmmm, an interesting write-up but I'm afraid not really on point. Ugaritic texts are only used as a reference of sorts to give us insight into what the worldview of the Hebrews was like. It does not automatically translate that these two folks had the same religious practices. It is a bit like a European trying to study Ibo culture and using Yoruba culture as a form of reference to give him insight into what the Ibo worldview is like.

If you recall at the beginning of this debate, I reminded you that the argument that neighboring territories believed something does not automatically translate into "therefore the Hebrews believed it too".

Also, when I originally asked you to name Yahweh in some other text, Your initial response was that Yahweh isn't really a name. This would tell you that the identity of God would be difficult to pinpoint in another culture as it will not refer to the same person. Since the name He gave was simply I AM.

What is now interesting is that you have picked up Yahu/Yamu from the children of El amongst the Ugarit and are trying to pass him of as Yahweh(which you said is not really a name). This wouldn't do especially considering that Yam was a sea god. It is obvious that the characteristics do not refer to the same person.

The question we are dealing with is not what was believed in and around Canaan but what was believed in Israel. Keep that in mind.

Now back to Deuteronomy which is what you have presented as evidence of your claim. You claimed that there are two characters in there. You quoted verses 8-9 and put your spin on it.
All I did was to ask you to read the entire song in the same light to test if your hypothesis holds true (and yes it is a song: see verse 44).

Unfortunately, you didn't even bother reading it at all.

It is a poor argument when one party chooses to be willfully ignorant. Rather than consult primary sources, you are more interested in arguing based on second-hand information from wikipedia and documentaries.

Please attend to the task I gave you and then we can continue.

plaetton: @Anony:

This easier than I thought.

First,I wonder where you get your information. It is certainly not from your bible, unless ofcourse, you are reading from the Jimmy Swaggart version. lol.
Contrary to your claims,Deuteronomy is not DUET hit song by Moses and Joshua. No no no.
The KJV says at the beginning of Deuteronomy that Moses (alone) wrote this book(not song) between 1410BC and 1406 BC. Ok?

Wiki even says more.

Book of Deuteronomy


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The book of Deuteronomy (from Greek Δευτερονόμιον, Deuteronomion, "second law"; Hebrew: דְּבָרִים‎, Devarim, "[spoken] words" is the fifth book of the Hebrew Bible, and of the Jewish Torah/Pentateuch. The Hebrew title is taken from the opening phrase Eleh ha-devarim, "These are the words..."; the English title is from a Greek mis-translation of the Hebrew phrase mishneh ha-torah ha-zoth, "a copy of this law", in Deuteronomy 17:18, as to deuteronomion touto - "this second law".[1]

The book consists of three sermons or speeches [/b]delivered to the Israelites by Moses on the plains of Moab, shortly before they enter the Promised Land. The first sermon recapitulates the forty years of wilderness wanderings which have led to this moment, and ends with an exhortation to observe the law (or teachings); [b]the second reminds the Israelites of the need for exclusive allegiance to one God and observance of the laws he has given them, on which their possession of the land depends; and the third offers the comfort that even should Israel prove unfaithful and so lose the land, with repentance all can be restored.[2]


While traditionally accepted as the genuine words of Moses delivered on the eve of the occupation of Canaan, a broad consensus of modern scholars now see its origins in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian destruction of Samaria (8th century BCE) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of King Josiah (late 7th century), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian exile during the late 6th century.[3]


One of its most significant verses is Deuteronomy 6:4, the Shema, which has become the definitive statement of Jewish identity: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.(woops! he forgot the other two?)" Verses 6:4-5 were also quoted by jesus in mark.12:28-34 as part of the great commandment.



Bs. The claim is well founded.
In Exodus 6:3, when Moses first spoke with God, God said, 'I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My Name YHWH.' When Moses heard the name of God he realized that since he had a speech impediment as a result of what he called "uncircumcised lips" (Ex 6:12), he was unable to pronounce it accurately.

Accoding to wiki.,

The term El-shaddai may mean "God of the mountains," referring to the Mesopotamian divine mountain.[1] The term was one of the patriarchal names for the tribal god of the Mesopotamians.[1] In Exodus 6:3, El Shaddai is identified explicitly with the God of Abraham and with YHWH.[1] The term appears chiefly in the Torah. This could also refer to the Israelite camp's stay at Mount Sinai where God gave Moses the Ten Commandments.

Shaddai was a late Bronze Age Amorite city on the banks of the Euphrates river, in northern Syria. The site of its ruin-mound is called Tel eth-Thadyen: "Thadyen" being the modern Arabic rendering of the original West Semitic "Shaddai." It has been conjectured that El Shaddai was therefore the "God of Shaddai" and associated in tradition with Abraham, and the inclusion of the Abrahamic stories into the Hebrew Bible may have brought the northern name with them (see Documentary hypothesis).





According to wiki, the follwing were the pantheon gods of the Canaanites.


A great number of deities were worshiped by the followers of the Canaanite religion; this is a partial listing:

Anat, virgin goddess of war and strife, sister and putative mate of Ba'al Hadad
Athirat, "walker of the sea", Mother Goddess, wife of El (also known as Elat and after the Bronze Age as Asherah)
Athtart, better known by her Greek name Astarte, assists Anat in The Myth of Ba'al
Baalat or Baalit, the wife or female counterpart of Baal (also Belili)
Ba'al Hadad (lit. master of thunder), storm god.
Baal Hammon, god of fertility and renewer of all energies in the Phoenician colonies of the Western Mediterranean
Dagon, god of crop fertility and grain, father of Ba'al Hadad
El Elyon (lit. God Most High) and El; also transliterated as Ilu
Eshmun, god, or as Baalat Asclepius, goddess, of healing
Ishat, goddess of fire. She was slain by Anat.[1][2][3]
Kotharat, goddesses of marriage and pregnancy
Kothar-wa-Khasis, the skilled, god of craftsmanship
Lotan, the twisting, seven-headed serpent ally of Yam
Marqod, God of Dance
Melqart, king of the city, the underworld and cycle of vegetation in Tyre
Molech or Moloch, putative god of fire[4]
Mot or Mawat, god of death (not worshiped or given offerings)
Nikkal-wa-Ib, goddess of orchards and fruit
Qadeshtu, lit. "Holy One", putative goddess of love.
Resheph, god of plague and of healing
Shachar and Shalim, twin gods of dawn and dusk, respectively
Shamayim, (lit. skies) the god of the heavens
Shapash, also transliterated Shapshu, goddess of the sun; sometimes equated with the Mesopotamian sun god Shemesh[5] whose gender is disputed[6]
Yaw (lit. sea-river) the god of the sea and the river,[7] also called Judge Nahar (judge of the river).[8][9][10]
Yahweh may exist as an ending of some Amorite male names,[11] though the only Canaanite mention of Yahweh, found on the Mesha Stele, refers to the God of Israel contrasted with Chemosh.[12]
Yarikh, god of the moon and husband of Nikkal

Quoted for reference

plaetton: @Anony:

This easier than I thought.

First,I wonder where you get your information. It is certainly not from your bible, unless ofcourse, you are reading from the Jimmy Swaggart version. lol.
Contrary to your claims,Deuteronomy is not a DUET hit song by Moses and Joshua. No no no.
The KJV says at the beginning of Deuteronomy that Moses (alone) wrote this book(not song) between 1410BC and 1406 BC. Ok?

Wiki even says more.

Book of Deuteronomy


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The book of Deuteronomy (from Greek ?e?te?µ, Deuteronomion, "second law"; Hebrew: ?, Devarim, "[spoken] words" is the fifth book of the Hebrew Bible, and of the Jewish Torah/Pentateuch. The Hebrew title is taken from the opening phrase Eleh ha-devarim, "These are the words..."; the English title is from a Greek mis-translation of the Hebrew phrase mishneh ha-torah ha-zoth, "a copy of this law", in Deuteronomy 17:18, as to deuteronomion touto - "this second law".[1]

The book consists of three sermons or speeches delivered to the Israelites by Moses on the plains of Moab, shortly before they enter the Promised Land.
The first sermon recapitulates the forty years of wilderness wanderings which have led to this moment, and ends with an exhortation to observe the law (or teachings); the second reminds the Israelites of the need for exclusive allegiance to one God and observance of the laws he has given them, on which their possession of the land depends; and the third offers the comfort that even should Israel prove unfaithful and so lose the land, with repentance all can be restored.[2]


While traditionally accepted as the genuine words of Moses delivered on the eve of the occupation of Canaan, [b]a broad consensus of modern scholars now see its origins in traditions from Israel (the northern kingdom) brought south to the Kingdom of Judah in the wake of the Assyrian destruction of Samaria (8th century BCE) and then adapted to a program of nationalist reform in the time of King Josiah (late 7th century), with the final form of the modern book emerging in the milieu of the return from the Babylonian exile during the late 6th century.[3]

Ggam gbam!

One of its most significant verses is Deuteronomy 6:4, the Shema, which has become the definitive statement of Jewish identity: "Hear, O Israel: the LORD our God, the LORD is one.(woops! he forgot the other two members of the trinity?)" Verses 6:4-5 were also quoted by jesus in mark.12:28-34 as part of the great commandment.




My claim that Yahweh is among the Canaanite pantheon is well founded, i will easily prove it.

In Exodus 6:3, when Moses first spoke with God, God said, 'I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as El Shaddai, but I did not make myself known to them by My Name YHWH.' When Moses heard the name of God he realized that since he had a speech impediment as a result of what he called "uncircumcised lips" (Ex 6:12), he was unable to pronounce it accurately.

So, we see, and I hope you will agree about what is coming from yahweh's own mouth, that indeed, he was Known as El-Shaddai in earlier times.


Accoding to wiki.,

The term El-shaddai may mean "God of the mountains," referring to the Mesopotamian divine mountain.[1] The term was one of the patriarchal names for the tribal god of the Mesopotamians.[1] In Exodus 6:3, El Shaddai is identified explicitly with the God of Abraham and with YHWH.[1] The term appears chiefly in the Torah. This could also refer to the Israelite camp's stay at Mount Sinai where God gave Moses the Ten Commandments.

Shaddai was a late Bronze Age Amorite city on the banks of the Euphrates river, in northern Syria. The site of its ruin-mound is called Tel eth-Thadyen: "Thadyen" being the modern Arabic rendering of the original West Semitic "Shaddai." It has been conjectured that El Shaddai was therefore the "God of Shaddai" and associated in tradition with Abraham, and the inclusion of the Abrahamic stories into the Hebrew Bible may have brought the northern name with them (see Documentary hypothesis).

So having estalished that Yahweh was known as El-Shaddai in earlier times, then follow me as we go searching for El-Shaddaih in Canaan.
Shall we? C'mon.

plaetton:
Please read.
This is from a christian school of theology.

http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm

I will highlight the salient points below.

1. Introduction.

The ancient Canaanite city-state of Ugarit is of utmost importance for those who study the Old Testament. The literature of the city and the theology contained therein go a very long way in helping us to understand the meaning of various Biblical passages as well as aiding us in deciphering difficult Hebrew words. Ugarit was at its political, religious and economic height around the 12th century BCE and thus its period of greatness corresponds with the entry of Israel into Canaan.

Why should people interested in the Old Testament want to know about this city and its inhabitants? Simply because when we listen to their voices we hear echoes of the Old Testament itself. Several of the Psalms were simply adapted from Ugaritic sources; the story of the flood has a near mirror image in Ugaritic literature; and the language of the Bible is greatly illuminated by the language of Ugarit. For instance, look at M. Dahood’s brilliant commentary on the Psalms in the Anchor Bible series for the necessity of Ugaritic for accurate Biblical exegesis. (N.B., for a more thorough discussion of the language of Ugarit, the student is advised to take the course titled “Ugaritic Grammar” offered by this institution).

In short, when one has well in hand the literature and theology of Ugarit, one is well on the way to being able to comprehend some of the most important ideas contained in the Old Testament. For this reason it is worthwhile that we pursue this topic.

2. The Discovery of Ugarit and the Ugaritic Texts.

In 1928 a group of French archaeologists journeyed with 7 camels, one donkey, and some burden bearers towards the tel known as Ras Shamra. After a week at the site they discovered a cemetery 150 meters from the Mediterranean Sea. In the graves they discovered Egyptian and Phoenician artwork and alabaster. They also found some Mycenean and Cypriot materials.

After the discovery of the cemetery they found a city and a royal palace about 1000 meters from the sea on a tel 18 meters high. The tel was called by the locals Ras Shamra which means “fennel hill”. There also Egyptian artifacts were discovered and dated to the 2nd millennium BCE.

The greatest discovery made at the site was a collection of tablets carved with (a then) unknown cuneiform script. In 1932 the identification of the site was made when some of the tablets were deciphered; the city was the ancient and famous site of Ugarit.

Ugarit experienced a very long history. A city was built on the site in the Neolithic period around 6000 BCE. The oldest written evidence of the city is found in some texts from the nearby city of Ebla written around 1800 BCE. At that time both Ebla and Ugarit were under Egyptian hegemony, which shows that the long arm of Egypt extended all along the west coast of the Mediterranean Sea (for Ugarit is located in modern day Syria roughly dead east of the NE coast of Cyprus on the coast of Syria). The population of Ugarit at that time was roughly 7635 people. The city of Ugarit continued to be dominated by the Egyptians through 1400 BCE.

All of the tablets found at Ugarit were written in the last period of its life (around 1300- 1200 BCE). The kings of this last and greatest period were:

1349 ‘Ammittamru I

1325 Niqmaddu II

1315 Arhalba

1291 Niqmepa 2

1236 Ammitt1193- Niqmaddu III

1185 ‘Ammurapi


I have highlighted Ammurapi because we know as a fact that King Hammurapi to be a historical figure.

plaetton: 4. The Ugaritic Pantheon.

The prophets of the Old Testament rail against Baal, Asherah and various other gods on nearly every page. The reason for this is simple to understand; the people of Israel worshipped these gods along with, and sometimes instead of, Yahweh, the God of Israel. This Biblical denunciation of these Canaanite gods received a fresh face when the Ugaritic texts were discovered, for at Ugarit these were the very gods that were worshipped.

El was the chief god at Ugarit. Yet El is also the name of God used in many of the Psalms for Yahweh; or at least that has been the presupposition among pious Christians. Yet when one reads these Psalms and the Ugaritic texts one sees that the very attributes for which Yahweh is acclaimed are the same for which El is acclaimed. In fact, these Psalms were most likely originally Ugaritic or Canaanite hymns to El which were simply adopted by Israel, much like the American National Anthem was set to a beer hall tune by Francis Scott Key. El is called the “father of men”, “creator”, and “creator of the creation”. These attributes are also granted Yahweh by the Old Testament.

For instances, read KTU 1. 2 I 13-32 and compare it to many of the Psalms. Also, read Ps 82:1, 89:6-8mn!).

In 1 Kings 22:19-22 we read of Yahweh meeting with his heavenly council. This is the very description of heaven which one finds in the Ugaritic texts. For in those texts the “sons of god” are the sons of El.

Other deities worshipped at Ugarit were El Shaddai, El Elyon, and El Berith. All of these names are applied to Yahweh by the writers of the Old Testament. What this means is that the Hebrew theologians adopted the titles of the Canaanite gods and attributed them to Yahweh in an effort to eliminate them. If Yahweh is all of these there is no need for the Canaanite gods to exist! This process is known as assimilation.

Besides the chief god at Ugarit there were also lesser gods, demons, and goddesses. The most important of these lesser gods were Baal (familiar to all readers of the Bible), Asherah (also familiar to readers of the Bible), Yam (the god of the sea) and Mot (the god of death). What is of great interest here is that Yam is the Hebrew word for sea and Mot is the Hebrew word for death! Is this because the Hebrews also adopted these Canaanite ideas as well? Most likely they did.

Tadaaahhhh!
Bingo!

So we have located El or El Elyon, as well as El-Shaddai in Canaan.
So El-Shaddai aka Yahweh (by his own words) was well known and worshipped among the other members of the pantheon or heavenly council in Canaan.

plaetton: Continueing.............


One of the most interesting of these lesser deities, Asherah, plays a very important role in the Old Testament. There she is called the wife of Baal; but she is also known as the consort of Yahweh! That is, among some Yahwists, Ahserah is Yahweh’s female counterpart! Inscriptions found at Kuntillet ‘Ajrud (dated between 850 and 750 BCE) say:

I bless you through Yahweh of Samaria,

and through his Asherah!

And at ‘El Qom (from the same period) this inscription:

Uriyahu, the king, has written this.

Blessed be Uriyahu through Yahweh,

and his enemies have been conquered

through Yahweh’s Asherah.


That Yahwists worshipped Asherah until the 3rd century before Christ is well known from the Elephantine Papyri. Thus, for many in ancient Israel, Yahweh, like Baal, had a consort. Although condemned by the prophets, this aspect of the popular religion of Israel was difficult to overcome and indeed among many was never overcome.

As had already been mentioned, one of the more important lesser deities at Ugarit was Baal. Baal is described as the “rider on the clouds” in KTU 1.3 II 40. Interestingly enough, this description is also used of Yahweh in Psalm 68:5.

plaetton: And this is even more explosive,



In the Old Testament Baal is named 58 times in the singular and 18 times in the plural. The prophets protested constantly against the love affair the Israelites had with Baal (cf. Hosea 2:19, for example). The reason Israel was so attracted to Baal was that, first of all, some Israelites viewed Yahweh as a God of the desert and so when they arrived in Canaan they thought it only proper to adopt Baal, the god of fertility. As the old saying goes, “whose land, his god”. For these Israelites Yahweh was useful in the desert but not much help in the land.


There is one Ugaritic text which seems to indicate that among the inhabitants of Ugarit, Yahweh was viewed as another son of El. KTU 1.1 IV 14 says:

sm . bny . yw . ilt

“The name of the son of god, Yahweh.”


[color=#000099](What?) Yahweh the son of El? hhhmmmmm!

[/color] This text seems to show that Yahweh was known at Ugarit, though not as the Lord but as one of the many sons of El.

Among the other gods worshipped at Ugarit there are Dagon, Tirosch, Horon, Nahar, Resheph, Kotar Hosis, Shachar (who is the equivalent of Satan), and Shalem. The folks at Ugarit were also plagued by a host of demons and lesser gods. The people at Ugarit saw the desert as the place which was most inhabited by demons (and they were like the Israelites in this belief). KTU 1.102:15-28 is a list of these demons.

One of the most famous of the lesser deities at Ugarit was a chap named Dan’il. There is little doubt that this figure corresponds to the Biblical Daniel; while predating him by several centuries. This has led many Old Testament scholars to suppose that the Canonical prophet was modeled on him. His story is found in KTU 1.17 - 1.19.

Another creature which has ties to the Old Testament is Leviathan. Isaiah 27:1 and KTU 1.5 I 1-2 describe this beast. Also see Ps 74:13-14 and 104:26.

Explosive indeed.

plaetton: And finally,


9. Conclusion

Since the discovery of the Ugaritic texts, study of the Old Testament has never been the same. We now have a much clearer picture of Canaanite religion than we ever had before. We also understand the Biblical literature itself much better as we are now able to clarify difficult words due to their Ugaritic cognates.

The student who is interested in the earliest, and therfore formative, period of Israel’s history are heartily encouraged to read Niels Lemche’s “Early Israel”.


So Mr Anony, either upgrade your biblical knowledge or bury your head in the sand and cling on to an abbreviated, incomplete and much obfuscated version of ancient Hebrew History.

Quoted for reference

I have quoted your long text for future reference. I will draw you back to it at a later stage to point out a few things but for now please go to Deuteronomy 32 and identify Yahweh and El in the whole chapter as I have asked you to do.
Let us do some real intellectual work instead of copy and paste shall we?

Mr_Anony: I have quoted your long text for future reference. I will draw you back to it at a later stage to point out a few things but for now please go to Deuteronomy 32 and identify Yahweh and El in the whole chapter as I have asked you to do.
Let us do some real intellectual work instead of copy and paste shall we?

Your ability for mental gymnastics is simply amazing. You are giving me an assignment? .
For what purpose, to prove my points or yours? You are very funny.

You are, I assume,are a medium to high IQ individual. Do not pretend to be any less.
You cannot rely on just one source as authentic histroy without relying on other contempraneous soures to get a full picture of historicsl facts and trends.
Now, if you are adamant that you would not consider any evidence outside our your bible in evaluating historical facts, then I say boldy that you are therefore not qualified to argue and have this calibre of debate.

My point was to establish first of all that yahweh was one among a pantheon of gods that the ancient hebrews acknowledged and at times worshipped.
By the same token I wanted to prove that yahweh was known in Canaan, perhaps by another name, in this case El- Shaddai, whom , I have proved, was one of the pantheon of Canaanite gods.

I used the both the bible and the Ugarith texts,a genuine ,historically and scientifically accepted original texts, free from eclesiastical tampering, redactions, revisions, translations and transliterations, to to butress my argument that El-Shaddai, aka Yahweh, was one among a pantheon of Hebrew and Canaanite Gods.

You seem to be desperately clutching at straws.
WTF else (excuse my language) are you tallking about?

Pls tell me which part of your bible you do not agree with first, before you begin to repudiate the Ugarith texts, as I am expecting you to do.

However, if you intend to repudiate the Ugarith texts, you would either have to quote a historical or an academic authority repudiating and giving alternate renderings, or, you wuold have to author a peer reviewable academic treatise of your own. Nothing short of these would suffice.
Your blind faith in the scriptures alone will not measure up in this particular case.
Ok?

Stop calling deuteronomy a song for goodness sake. It is not a duet by Moses and Joshua. Which version of the bible are you getting these false notions from ?
It is a set of speeches said to have been delivered by moses to the Israelites before they reached their supposed promised land.

Do you read your bible?

@anony:
If you read my posts so far, you will see that I have only carefully quoted, verbatim, what is written in your bible or the Ugarith Texts.
I have not made any suppositions or conjectures.
So please stop these allegations of spin , or taking anything out of contexts.
Any sunday school child who can read and understand english will understand the things that are clearly stated in the bible.

plaetton: Stop calling deuteronomy a song for goodness sake. It is not a duet by Moses and Joshua. Which version of the bible are you getting these false notions from ?
It is a set of speeches said to have been delivered by moses to the Israelites before they reached their supposed promised land.

Do you read your bible?

Oh shut up already and read the Deuteronomy 32 that I sent you. Why are you being so willfully ignorant?

plaetton: @anony:
If you read my posts so far, you will see that I have only carefully quoted, verbatim, what is written in your bible or the Ugarith Texts.
I have not made any suppositions or conjectures.
So please stop these allegations of spin , or taking anything out of contexts.
Any sunday school child who can read and understand english will understand the things that are clearly stated in the bible.

My issue is not with your quotation, It is the meanings you are reading from them that are wrong. I have posted the Deuteronomy 32 for you to read in context and insert for me the characters Yahweh and El as you have claimed. Why are you avoiding it?
I want you to do some actual intellectual work so that we can now move forward to treating the rest of your claims proper.

If I have been gracious enough to take note of your argument, I think it is only fair to demand your involvement too. Perhaps you really didn't want my involvement. All you wanted was someone to tell stuff to.

You were the one who suggested that Deuteronomy 32:8-9 was referring to two different people. If you had actually read the whole chapter down to verse 44, you would have discovered that it is a song. But then the song issue is of minor importance. What I have asked you to do was to show in the whole chapter which verses referred to Yahweh and which ones referred to El by substituting their names in the text. I have even provided the chapter for you. Why are you shying away from it now?

You don't even seem to be least interested in actually validating your claims. Why then are you wasting my time?

Allow me to interject needlessly. Well, actually, I will do so whether y'all like it or not (note I never claim to be mature).
@anony, are you cracking under the pressure? Breathe, man, breathe. You don't want to become afflicted with a certain disorder that seems to hit long time religionists on here. I'm sure they were sane at some point in time, but gradually gave in to the madness. Breath, man, breath.

Never even heard of ugarith before, but would you accept their text as valid in this discussion?

Mr_Anony:
Oh shut up already and read the Deuteronomy 32 that I sent you. Why are you being so willfully ignorant?


My issue is not with your quotation, It is the meanings you are reading from them that are wrong. I have posted the Deuteronomy 32 for you to read in context and insert for me the characters Yahweh and El as you have claimed. Why are you avoiding it?
I want you to do some actual intellectual work so that we can now move forward to treating the rest of your claims proper.

If I have been gracious enough to take note of your argument, I think it is only fair to demand your involvement too. Perhaps you really didn't want my involvement. All you wanted was someone to tell stuff to.

You were the one who suggested that Deuteronomy 32:8-9 was referring to two different people. If you had actually read the whole chapter down to verse 44, you would have discovered that it is a song. But then the song issue is of minor importance. What I have asked you to do was to show in the whole chapter which verses referred to Yahweh and which ones referred to El by substituting their names in the text. I have even provided the chapter for you. Why are you shying away from it now?

You don't even seem to be least interested in actually validating your claims. Why then are you wasting my time?

@ Anony

you had finish work here when you did ask plaeton to show from other write up a reference to Yahweh in their text to proof that other nations did know who Yahweh was.

What you are doing here is to "give him a ride"

wiegraf:
Breathe, man, breathe. You don't want to become afflicted with a certain disorder that seems to hit long time religionists on here. I'm sure they were sane at some point in time, but gradually gave in to the madness. Breath, man, breath.

dude, what are you up to?

Hahaha, lol.

Can you expanciate on this:

wiegraf:
You don't want to become afflicted with a certain disorder that seems to hit long time religionists on here.

what exactly can that be and who and who have been affected by it?

wiegraf: Allow me to interject needlessly. Well, actually, I will do so whether y'all like it or not (note I never claim to be mature).
@anony, are you cracking under the pressure? Breathe, man, breathe. You don't want to become afflicted with a certain disorder that seems to hit long time religionists on here. I'm sure they were sane at some point in time, but gradually gave in to the madness. Breath, man, breath.

Never even heard of ugarith before, but would you accept their text as valid in this discussion?

You don't even have any idea of what you are talking about do you?

When someone brings up a topic, you want to know if the person actually knows what he/she is talking about. plaetton really doesn't have a grasp on his topic. He is only repeating the ideas of another person. It is even sad that he doesn't know what Deuteronomy 32 is about. Yet he quoted it in support of his argument. Even when I posted the whole thing for him, he didn't even bother reading it.

I thought I was in for a good debate but as it stands, I can't hope to get anywhere with someone who doesn't even know what he is talking about. He has only succeeded in wasting my time.

....And I am sure you also don't know about the subject too so it leaves me with nothing much to talk about.


About the Ugarit, it is a very interesting text and I appreciate plaetton bringing it up, but all it really does is give us an insight into the ancient Hebrew's worldview. These people lived in the same region as Israelites so have similar culture but this does not automatically mean that they worshipped the same gods.
As I said to him, it is like a european studying Ibo and Yoruba culture many years from now after they have died out. He will see many similarities and similar words and cultural practices that will give him context into understanding them but it won't automatically mean that Ibos worshipped Yoruba gods.
To prove that they worshipped the same gods, he must use the Torah (old testament) to show this.

In fact He doesn't even need to draw parallels with the Ugarith or any such texts. All he really needs to do to satisfy the question of this debate is to show from the old testament that the Hebrews were polytheist. He hasn't been able to do this yet. I have set him a small task and yet he is still jumping around.

If I hadn't responded to this thread, he would have started gloating. But as it it appears now, he really has no ammunition left to fire once we begin to put his copypasted theory to the test. I am no longer interested in dragging out issues unnecessarily when my opponent is ignorant of the subject he is debating.

If plaetton cannot apply his Yahweh & El theory to a whole chapter of the bible instead of just picking verses here and there out of context (as instructed by the source of his copypasting) then his theory is void and I really have nothing to discuss with him.


@Plaetton: You were the one who raised up Deuteronomy 32. I have pasted it for you a few posts back. Please apply your thesis to it by inserting the names Yahweh and El as you find appropriate. That is what will tell me that you are serious about what you are talking about. Please sort this out and let us continue. If you cannot do this, then your theory is not worth the bits of memory it occupies on this server

wiegraf: Allow me to interject needlessly. Well, actually, I will do so whether y'all like it or not (note I never claim to be mature).
@anony, are you cracking under the pressure? Breathe, man, breathe. You don't want to become afflicted with a certain disorder that seems to hit long time religionists on here. I'm sure they were sane at some point in time, but gradually gave in to the madness. Breath, man, breath.

Never even heard of ugarith before, but would you accept their text as valid in this discussion?

You don't even have any idea of what you are talking about do you?

When someone brings up a topic, you want to know if the person actually knows what he/she is talking about. plaetton really doesn't have a grasp on his topic. He is only repeating the ideas of another person. It is even sad that he doesn't know what Deuteronomy 32 is about. Yet he quoted it in support of his argument. Even when I posted the whole thing for him, he didn't even bother reading it.

I thought I was in for a good debate but as it stands, I can't hope to get anywhere with someone who doesn't even know what he is talking about. He has only succeeded in wasting my time.

....And I am sure you also don't know about the subject too so it leaves me with nothing much to talk about.


About the Ugarit, it is a very interesting text and I appreciate plaetton bringing it up, but all it really does is give us an insight into the ancient Hebrew's worldview. These people lived in the same region as Israelites so have similar culture but this does not automatically mean that they worshipped the same gods.
As I said to him, it is like a european studying Ibo and Yoruba culture many years from now after they have died out. He will see many similarities and similar words and cultural practices that will give him context into understanding them but it won't automatically mean that Ibos worshipped Yoruba gods.
To prove that they worshipped the same gods, he must use the Torah (old testament) to show this.

In fact He doesn't even need to draw parallels with the Ugarith or any such texts. All he really needs to do to satisfy the question of this debate is to show from the old testament that the Hebrews were polytheist. He hasn't been able to do this yet. I have set him a small task and yet he is still jumping around.

If I hadn't responded to this thread, he would have started gloating. But as it it appears now, he really has no ammunition left to fire once we begin to put his copypasted theory to the test. I am no longer interested in dragging out issues unnecessarily when my opponent is ignorant of the subject he is debating.

If plaetton cannot apply his Yahweh & El theory to a whole chapter of the bible instead of just picking verses here and there out of context (as instructed by the source of his copypasting) then his theory is void and I really have nothing to discuss with him.


@Plaetton: You were the one who raised up Deuteronomy 32. I have pasted it for you a few posts back. Please apply your thesis to it by inserting the names Yahweh and El as you find appropriate. That is what will tell me that you are serious about what you are talking about. Please sort this out and let us continue. If you cannot do this, then your theory is not worth the bits of memory it occupies on this server

But I disagree, I'm quite sure about the going crazy over time bit.

As for ugarith, nah. Like I said never even heard of them (or even care much). Folklore tend to be related though, like languages, but I wouldn't know in this instance.
This is not the first time I am coming across @plaet's claims, iirc yahweh even had a family, wife and all, before the rationalization occurred. I wouldn't be qualified to debate that though, as you've said.

Mr_Anony:
You don't even have any idea of what you are talking about do you?

When someone brings up a topic, you want to know if the person actually knows what he/she is talking about. plaetton really doesn't have a grasp on his topic. He is only repeating the ideas of another person. It is even sad that he doesn't know what Deuteronomy 32 is about. Yet he quoted it in support of his argument. Even when I posted the whole thing for him, he didn't even bother reading it.

I thought I was in for a good debate but as it stands, I can't hope to get anywhere with someone who doesn't even know what he is talking about. He has only succeeded in wasting my time.

....And I am sure you also don't know about the subject too so it leaves me with nothing much to talk about.


About the Ugarit, it is a very interesting text and I appreciate plaetton bringing it up, but all it really does is give us an insight into the ancient Hebrew's worldview. These people lived in the same region as Israelites so have similar culture but this does not automatically mean that they worshipped the same gods.
As I said to him, it is like a european studying Ibo and Yoruba culture many years from now after they have died out. He will see many similarities and similar words and cultural practices that will give him context into understanding them but it won't automatically mean that Ibos worshipped Yoruba gods.
To prove that they worshipped the same gods, he must use the Torah (old testament) to show this.

In fact He doesn't even need to draw parallels with the Ugarith or any such texts. All he really needs to do to satisfy the question of this debate is to show from the old testament that the Hebrews were polytheist. He hasn't been able to do this yet. I have set him a small task and yet he is still jumping around.

If I hadn't responded to this thread, he would have started gloating. But as it it appears now, he really has no ammunition left to fire once we begin to put his copypasted theory to the test. I am no longer interested in dragging out issues unnecessarily when my opponent is ignorant of the subject he is debating.

If plaetton cannot apply his Yahweh & El theory to a whole chapter of the bible instead of just picking verses here and there out of context (as instructed by the source of his copypasting) then his theory is void and I really have nothing to discuss with him.


@Plaetton: You were the one who raised up Deuteronomy 32. I have pasted it for you a few posts back. Please apply your thesis to it by inserting the names Yahweh and El as you find appropriate. That is what will tell me that you are serious about what you are talking about. Please sort this out and let us continue. If you cannot do this, then your theory is not worth the bits of memory it occupies on this server

I think it may be wise, my very dear brother, to examine the spirit governing certain questions. It is not our part to answer accusing spirits.

That this is a public forum only makes this more needful

Double post

He he he.

You are very very funny indeed.

I dont know what else you want me to show. You want to paly a game of word substitution with you, so tht we can arrive at what?
I am sorry to say, but this is very very silly. Are we in kindergadern?
Do I need, no, does anyone who can read and write need to play word substition inorder to understand deut.32 as they are written in the bible?
How dare you try to edit and revise your bible right in front of us.

But, what exactly is your point? which part of all the verbatim bible verses do you disagree with? If you disagree with something, you marshall out your points to repudiate them.

We have found the Canaanites gods Asherah,Baal,Lilith,El-Elyon, and even El-Shaddai in the bible. Have we not?
We have also found in the bible that there existed a council of gods that yahweh attended in psalms 82. Have we not?
We have also found from the bible that Yahweh himself used to be known by another name in Canaan as El-Shaddai. This is coming from Yahweh himself. Have we not? If you dispute that, you can take up with Yahweh.

Moving further, we also seen from the Ugarith texts, not from me,not from another person,I repeat, from the original Ugarith texts, that Yahweh aka El-shaddai was known in and was indeed a member of the Canaanite pantheon.

What else, for goddness sake are you trying to spin ?
It is now your job to prove that the biblical verses in question were wrong, false or mistranslated, or that the Ugarith texts are forgeries inspired by the devil.
So please, go ahead.

lol.. two pages in and d debate never start...

Ugarith texts? lol..

plaetton, how does your wife cope?

@anony:
You are beginning to disappoint me.

My KJV bible says in the short preface, which I have quoted before, at the beginning of Deuteronomy, that it "moses wrote this book between 1410 BC and 1406 BC".
You keeping shouting that it is a song by Moses and Joshua.
I am supposed to read it and realize that it is a song?

Please, please, who among your christian comrades agrees with you? just mention one.

Are you running mad?
Repudiating your own bible?
Moses and joshua sang a 34-chapter song for the Israelites?

Do you know just how s.t.upid that sounds?
It must have been a sold out all-day and all-night performance. Huh?

Google Deuteronomy and show me any mention of Deuteronomy being a song.

Na wa o.

musKeeto: lol.. two pages in and d debate never start...

Ugarith texts? lol..

plaetton, how does your wife cope?

Ihedinobi:

I think it may be wise, my very dear brother, to examine the spirit governing certain questions. It is not our part to answer accusing spirits.

That this is a public forum only makes this more needful

His arguments look rather legit to me, on an issue I would like ironed out if I were xtian. You think he's being disingenuous? Why? And why would he bother with quality posts if he meant to troll? Now, if it were me, then sure you could mayhaps I would be trollin'
Ah, you think he's already made up his mind and won't listen to your arguments even if they make more sense than his? I disagree, present a strong enough argument and I think he'll reconsider. But that's a complicated issue, that's how certain debates just go


Edit: ah, the man himself has arrived

@Anony:

The ancient Hebrews were polytheists.
They worshipped Baal. We know this from the bible.
They worshipped Asherah. We know this from the bible.
They worshipped The Queen of heaven. We know this from the bible.
King Solomon worshipped Egyptian gods. We know this from the bible.
They worshipped El or El-Elyon. We know this from the bible.

They worshipped El or El-Elyon. We know this from the bible.

Do you know why the name El and El-Elyon can no longer be found in most modern editions of the word of god?
It is simply because the churchmen realized that they were dealing with different dieties, so they simply substituted God almighty in place of El.
That is my own conjecture.

Jews, today still celebrate the feast of Tammuz.

Pls Don't take my word for it.
Let's see what google or wiki has to say about the feast of Tammuz.

Tammuz was a month in the Babylonian calendar, named for one of the main Babylonian gods, Tammuz (Sumerian: Dumuzid, "son of life".[1] Many different calendar systems have since adopted Tammuz to refer to a month in the summer season.

BINGO!

And further,

The festival for the deity Tammuz was held throughout the month of Tammuz in midsummer, and celebrated his death and resurrection.[[/b]3] The first day of the month of Tammuz was the day of the new moon of the summer solstice.[4] On the second day of the month, there was lamentation over the death of Tammuz, on the 9th, 16th and 17th days torchlit processions, and on the last three days, an image of Tammuz was buried.[3]

What?

Did I just hear "death and resurrection"? Noooooo way.
Someone was trying to imitate Jesus hundreds or perhaps thousand years before Jesus?

So even the ancient , as well as modern jews are celebrating the death and resurrection of a Babylonian god?

I have proved my claims far beyond any reasonable doubts(emphasis on the word [b]REASON).

So let me relax and amuse myself as I watch you begin your mental gymnastics.

plaetton: @anony:
You are beginning to disappoint me.

My KJV bible says in the short preface, which I have quoted before, at the beginning of Deuteronomy, that it "moses wrote this book between 1410 BC and 1406 BC".
You keeping shouting that it is a song by Moses and Joshua.
I am supposed to read it and realize that it is a song?

Please, please, who among your christian comrades agrees with you? just mention one.

Are you running mad?
Repudiating your own bible?
Moses and joshua sang a 34-chapter song for the Israelites?

Do you know just how s.t.upid that sounds?
It must have been a sold out all-day and all-night performance. Huh?

Google Deuteronomy and show me any mention of Deuteronomy being a song.

Na wa o.

There you go

Deut. 32:44 And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun.

If you had bothered to actually read Deuteronomy 32, You would have known that the verse 8-9 you were quoting are actually part of a song. All I have asked you is to apply your interpretation to the rest of the song which runs from verse 1-43 instead of just picking two lines out of context.

I can pardon when someone is ignorant of what he is criticizing but when someone insists on staying ignorant of what he is criticizing I really can't help him. I even posted the whole chapter to help you really make your case if you had one. Unfortunately you have chosen to be willfully ignorant of the subject you set out to discuss.

I was going to work with you point by point,(I saved your arguments so I could refer back to them) but since you are not really interested in a debate, I'll just leave you to your folly.

I am quite convinced from reading your posts that you haven't even actually read the Ugaritic texts you are yapping about. At best you've only read a blog or watched a documentary then looked it up on wikipedia. . . .yet you are here talking.

What knowledge are you really bringing to the table? You have no knowledge of the bible, you have no knowledge of the Torah, you have no knowledge of the Ugaritic texts. You have nothing. I can even pardon your ignorance but what I really can't stand is your unwillingness to actually have some knowledge of what you are talking about.

When next you pull out one of these your half-baked topics and invite people and no one responds to you. Please don't kid yourself that it is because you actually have something. It is because no one wants to waste their time on someone who doesn't know what he is talking about.

I remember once not too long ago when you went yapping about Enuma Elish. I didn't know what it was then but I took the time to actually find the text and read it and when I posted the text back to you and asked you to validate your claims, you had nothing to say.

Yet you are here again championing a theory you know nothing about and worse still you don't even want to know.

As my twin brother Ihedinobi said, "Plaetton you are boring".

Please, next time before talking to me about anything, please make sure you actually know what it is that you are talking about. As they say, "empty barrels make the most noise"

So far, you have only succeeded in wasting everybody's time.

plaetton: @Anony:

The ancient Hebrews were polytheists.
They worshipped Baal. We know this from the bible.
They worshipped Asherah. We know this from the bible.
They worshipped The Queen of heaven. We know this from the bible.
King Solomon worshipped Egyptian gods. We know this from the bible.
They worshipped El or El-Elyon. We know this from the bible.

They worshipped El or El-Elyon. We know this from the bible.

Do you know why the name El and El-Elyon can no longer be found in most modern editions of the word of god?
It is simply because the churchmen realized that they were dealing with different dieties, so they simply substituted God almighty in place of El.
That is my own conjecture.

Jews, today still celebrate the feast of Tammuz.

Pls Don't take my word for it.
Let's see what google or wiki has to say about the feast of Tammuz.

Tammuz was a month in the Babylonian calendar, named for one of the main Babylonian gods, Tammuz (Sumerian: Dumuzid, "son of life".[1] Many different calendar systems have since adopted Tammuz to refer to a month in the summer season.

BINGO!

And further,

The festival for the deity Tammuz was held throughout the month of Tammuz in midsummer, and celebrated his death and resurrection.[[/b]3] The first day of the month of Tammuz was the day of the new moon of the summer solstice.[4] On the second day of the month, there was lamentation over the death of Tammuz, on the 9th, 16th and 17th days torchlit processions, and on the last three days, an image of Tammuz was buried.[3]

What?

Did I just hear "death and resurrection"? Noooooo way.
Someone was trying to imitate Jesus hundreds or perhaps thousand years before Jesus?

So even the ancient , as well as modern jews are celebrating the death and resurrection of a Babylonian god?

I have proved my claims far beyond any reasonable doubts(emphasis on the word [b]REASON).

So let me relax and amuse myself as I watch you begin your mental gymnastics.

I will not give you any other response until you have satisfied my initial challenge. Make no mistake, I am willing to go all the way, I just want to know that I am not wasting my time on you.

Ihedinobi:

I think it may be wise, my very dear brother, to examine the spirit governing certain questions. It is not our part to answer accusing spirits.

That this is a public forum only makes this more needful

My brother I know. The god of this world has blinded the minds of some people. Plaetton is really a waste of time.

wiegraf:

His arguments look rather legit to me, on an issue I would like ironed out if I were xtian. You think he's being disingenuous? Why? And why would he bother with quality posts if he meant to troll? Now, if it were me, then sure you could mayhaps I would be trollin'
Ah, you think he's already made up his mind and won't listen to your arguments even if they make more sense than his? I disagree, present a strong enough argument and I think he'll reconsider. But that's a complicated issue, that's how certain debates just go


Edit: ah, the man himself has arrived

the arguments look legit yes but they are not his arguments. They are copypaste. Beyond the information available to him on wikipedia etc, he really has nothing. I am challenging him to go further, he cannot but he is happy to paste more stuff.

He is like someone who sees the formula for solving quadratic equations and solved examples on wikipedia and he can speak with some authority as long as he only cites the solved examples he has seen. When challenged to go a step further by citing different quadratic problems, he is lost because he never really understood the equations in the first place.

It is quite insulting when someone who really doesn't know the bible tries to argue the bible armed with information from wikipedia.

musKeeto: lol.. two pages in and d debate never start...

Ugarith texts? lol..

plaetton, how does your wife cope?

Hmmmmm!

Plaeton is married

He sounds young to me!

truthislight:

Hmmmmm!

Plaeton is married

He sounds young to me!

What? Plaetton is married?

Mr_Anony:
There you go

Deut. 32:44 And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun.

If you had bothered to actually read Deuteronomy 32, You would have known that the verse 8-9 you were quoting are actually part of a song. All I have asked you is to apply your interpretation to the rest of the song which runs from verse 1-43 instead of just picking two lines out of context.

I can pardon when someone is ignorant of what he is criticizing but when someone insists on staying ignorant of what he is criticizing I really can't help him. I even posted the whole chapter to help you really make your case if you had one. Unfortunately you have chosen to be willfully ignorant of the subject you set out to discuss.

I was going to work with you point by point,(I saved your arguments so I could refer back to them) but since you are not really interested in a debate, I'll just leave you to your folly.

I am quite convinced from reading your posts that you haven't even actually read the Ugaritic texts you are yapping about. At best you've only read a blog or watched a documentary then looked it up on wikipedia. . . .yet you are here talking.

What knowledge are you really bringing to the table? You have no knowledge of the bible, you have no knowledge of the Torah, you have no knowledge of the Ugaritic texts. You have nothing. I can even pardon your ignorance but what I really can't stand is your unwillingness to actually have some knowledge of what you are talking about.

When next you pull out one of these your half-baked topics and invite people and no one responds to you. Please don't kid yourself that it is because you actually have something. It is because no one wants to waste their time on someone who doesn't know what he is talking about.

I remember once not too long ago when you went yapping about Enuma Elish. I didn't know what it was then but I took the time to actually find the text and read it and when I posted the text back to you and asked you to validate your claims, you had nothing to say.

Yet you are here again championing a theory you know nothing about and worse still you don't even want to know.

As my twin brother Ihedinobi said, "Plaetton you are boring".

Please, next time before talking to me about anything, please make sure you actually know what it is that you are talking about. As they say, "empty barrels make the most noise"

So far, you have only succeeded in wasting everybody's time.

He he he. Bravo Mr Anony.
unlike you, I am ever willing to concede and give credit when it is due. So you are right, deut.32:1-44 was a song according to the bible.
But the entire book of Deut. is not a song, we know where the song began and when it ended.
So good for you, and I humbly appologize.

But what was your point. Deut. 32:8-9 was a part of a song by moses and should therefore not be taken seriously and disregarded?
Is that your point?

It amuses me when you play these games. I have seen you do it so many times.
You come out for a debate and the first thing you do is to give your opponent an assignment to before you can marshal out your position.
I find them to be very childish games you can play with sunday school children, not with adults in a debate or discussion.

It seems that your M/O is to set a trap in the form of your silly games and if your opponent just happens to trip on it, then bingo, you claim victory?

It is almost as delusional as your blind faith religion.

Where is your argument? Where is the beef?

So I am not an expert in the Ugarith text.
So what? Did I claim so, and am I expected to be?
Do I need some kind of spiritual understanding or scriptural reasoning (lol) to understand the english translations?

A reasonable adult, first and foremost, argues from common sense, then whenever necessary, may quote or cite from other established sources to support his/her position.
Your job, as my opponent , is to showcase your common sense argument, and then, suppliment your argument by either repudiating my sources or citing your own superior ones.
Your apparent irritation and personal attack on me rather than make your own argument is a sure, but shameful way to say that you really have no arguments.
A debate is not a game where you begin to sulk like a child when your opponent refuses to play your game your way.