mazaje:

When the Most High(El) apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the LORD's(Yahweh's) own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (NRSV)

Lol, So Mazaje has shown up. Let's see if he knows what He is talking about shall we?

Mazaje, so you are indicating that verses 8-9 refers to two different persons. I hold that the Most High and the Lord refer to the same person. please do a small task for us will you.


Throughout scripture, we see a God who chose Israel as His own. He made it quite clear that He is the only one that exists.

You have brought up Deuteronomy 32:9. I'll like us both to read the full chapter instead of just cutting out a verse, pasting an interpretation on it and spitting it out.

To provide you with some context: Deuteronomy 32:9 is part of a song that was sung by Moses and Joshua to the Israelites. According to you, there are two characters in that song: the most high refers to El and the Lord refers to Yahweh. I will now paste the full song in my next post and all you have to do is substitute the titles for the names for example, verse 8-9 would read:

When El divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
For the Yahweh's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Mind you, I hold that it is all about one God. However, for the sake of this debate, we will treat El and Yahweh as two entirely different people

So here goes....

1 Give ear, O heavens, and I will speak;
let the earth hear the words of my mouth.
2 May my teaching drop like the rain,
my speech condense like the dew;
like gentle rain on grass,
like showers on new growth.
3 For I will proclaim the name of the Lord;
ascribe greatness to our God!


4 The Rock, his work is perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God, without deceit,
just and upright is he;
5 yet his degenerate children have dealt falsely with him,*
a perverse and crooked generation.
6 Do you thus repay the Lord,
O foolish and senseless people?
Is not he your father, who created you,
who made you and established you?
7 Remember the days of old,
consider the years long past;
ask your father, and he will inform you;
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High* apportioned the nations,
when he divided humankind,
he fixed the boundaries of the peoples
according to the number of the gods;*
9 the Lord’s own portion was his people,
Jacob his allotted share.


10 He sustained* him in a desert land,
in a howling wilderness waste;
he shielded him, cared for him,
guarded him as the apple of his eye.
11 As an eagle stirs up its nest,
and hovers over its young;
as it spreads its wings, takes them up,
and bears them aloft on its pinions,
12 the Lord alone guided him;
no foreign god was with him.
13 He set him upon the heights of the land,
and fed him with* produce of the field;
he nursed him with honey from the crags,
with oil from flinty rock;
14 curds from the herd, and milk from the flock,
with fat of lambs and rams;
Bashan bulls and goats,
together with the choicest wheat—
you drank fine wine from the blood of grapes.
15 Jacob ate his fill;*
Jeshurun grew fat, and kicked.
You grew fat, bloated, and gorged!
He abandoned God who made him,
and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.
16 They made him jealous with strange gods,
with abhorrent things they provoked him.
17 They sacrificed to demons, not God,
to deities they had never known,
to new ones recently arrived,
whom your ancestors had not feared.
18 You were unmindful of the Rock that bore you;*
you forgot the God who gave you birth.


19 The Lord saw it, and was jealous;*
he spurned* his sons and daughters.
20 He said: I will hide my face from them,
I will see what their end will be;
for they are a perverse generation,
children in whom there is no faithfulness.
21 They made me jealous with what is no god,
provoked me with their idols.
So I will make them jealous with what is no people,
provoke them with a foolish nation.
22 For a fire is kindled by my anger,
and burns to the depths of Sheol;
it devours the earth and its increase,
and sets on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap disasters upon them,
spend my arrows against them:
24 wasting hunger,
burning consumption,
bitter pestilence.
The teeth of beasts I will send against them,
with venom of things crawling in the dust.
25 In the street the sword shall bereave,
and in the chambers terror,
for young man and woman alike,
nursing child and old grey head.
26 I thought to scatter them*
and blot out the memory of them from humankind;
27 but I feared provocation by the enemy,
for their adversaries might misunderstand
and say, ‘Our hand is triumphant;
it was not the Lord who did all this.’


28 They are a nation void of sense;
there is no understanding in them.
29 If they were wise, they would understand this;
they would discern what the end would be.
30 How could one have routed a thousand,
and two put a myriad to flight,
unless their Rock had sold them,
the Lord had given them up?
31 Indeed their rock is not like our Rock;
our enemies are fools.*
32 Their vine comes from the vine-stock of Sodom,
from the vineyards of Gomorrah;
their grapes are grapes of poison,
their clusters are bitter;
33 their wine is the poison of serpents,
the cruel venom of asps.


34 Is not this laid up in store with me,
sealed up in my treasuries?
35 Vengeance is mine, and recompense,
for the time when their foot shall slip;
because the day of their calamity is at hand,
their doom comes swiftly.


36 Indeed the Lord will vindicate his people,
have compassion on his servants,
when he sees that their power is gone,
neither bond nor free remaining.
37 Then he will say: Where are their gods,
the rock in which they took refuge,
38 who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
and drank the wine of their libations?
Let them rise up and help you,
let them be your protection!


39 See now that I, even I, am he;
there is no god besides me.
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
and no one can deliver from my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven,
and swear: As I live for ever,
41 when I whet my flashing sword,
and my hand takes hold on judgement;
I will take vengeance on my adversaries,
and will repay those who hate me.
42 I will make my arrows drunk with blood,
and my sword shall devour flesh—
with the blood of the slain and the captives,
from the long-haired enemy.


43 Praise, O heavens,* his people,
worship him, all you gods!*
For he will avenge the blood of his children,*
and take vengeance on his adversaries;
he will repay those who hate him,*
and cleanse the land for his people.*

44 Moses came and recited all the words of this song in the hearing of the people, he and Joshua* son of Nun. 45When Moses had finished reciting all these words to all Israel, 46he said to them: ‘Take to heart all the words that I am giving in witness against you today; give them as a command to your children, so that they may diligently observe all the words of this law. 47This is no trifling matter for you, but rather your very life; through it you may live long in the land that you are crossing over the Jordan to possess.’

48 On that very day the Lord addressed Moses as follows: 49‘Ascend this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, across from Jericho, and view the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites for a possession; 50you shall die there on the mountain that you ascend and shall be gathered to your kin, as your brother Aaron died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his kin; 51because both of you broke faith with me among the Israelites at the waters of Meribath-kadesh in the wilderness of Zin, by failing to maintain my holiness among the Israelites. 52Although you may view the land from a distance, you shall not enter it—the land that I am giving to the Israelites.’

Deut 32 (NRSV)

Please don't just quote two lines of a song out of context by applying the name Yahweh where you deem fit. Apply your thesis to the whole chapter. Please feel free to insert El and Yahweh as you see fit. I am waiting.

davidylan:

At what point did yahweh or anony indicate that these gods did not exist?

The point of the debate as pletton stated was that the ancient Jews were polytheist. . .

mazaje:

The point of the debate as pletton stated was that the ancient Jews were polytheist. . .

not true because plaetton himself provided no proof. Prefering to dance around the issue while throwing veiled and/or blatant insults.

Let me use an example - the american society is not polygamous by nature and it is against the law... but some still marry more than 1 wife anyway. Does that mean americans are generally polygamous? no.

Same with the hebrews. Did some worship other gods out of disobedience? sure. but does that mean polytheism was enshrined as part of their culture? no

davidylan:

not true because plaetton himself provided no proof. Prefering to dance around the issue while throwing veiled and/or blatant insults.

Let me use an example - the american society is not polygamous by nature and it is against the law... but some still marry more than 1 wife anyway. Does that mean americans are generally polygamous? no.

Same with the hebrews. Did some worship other gods out of disobedience? sure. but does that mean polytheism was enshrined as part of their culture? no

Perfect answer!

Actually more to the point, what plaetton was trying to say was that God in the bible refers to more than one person i.e. God, the Lord, the Most High, the Almighty e.t.c all refer to different persons instead of God. This is of course is woefully false.

davidylan:

not true because plaetton himself provided no proof. Prefering to dance around the issue while throwing veiled and/or blatant insults.

Let me use an example - the american society is not polygamous by nature and it is against the law... but some still marry more than 1 wife anyway. Does that mean americans are generally polygamous? no.

Same with the hebrews. Did some worship other gods out of disobedience? sure. but does that mean polytheism was enshrined as part of their culture? no

I know we will disagree on that but he did provide some evidence. . .You are taking a revisionist position and reading from the reacted english translation of the bible that does not do actual justice to the original hebrew. . . For example Genesis 31:13, which quite simply reads "I am the god Bethel" ('El Bet'el).

Even the first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me," does not deny the existence of other deities and shows that the people had to be worshiping other Gods for such a commandment to have been issued to dissuade them from worshiping other Gods and worshiping Yahweh alone. The bible clearly shows that the people worshiped other Gods and were not all monotheist.

davidylan:

I'm not sure about this version... pretty much all the other versions agree that verse 8 refers to the nations that sprung up under Adam... not gods. There is no mention of such gods anywhere else, rather we have clear mention of demarcated peoples after the fall of Nimrod's building.

Ha ha ha hahha .

This is the biggestt laugh of the day. So now its about versions? You are not sure about this version?
Is is this a defence? I have to give you credit. This is the most brilliant defence I have ever read o nairaland.

How many versions are there of the word of god?
So some versions are trueer than other versions.
You , my friend, just BETRAYED your bible and religion.
Can one have a meaning argument with a person,a christian champion, who at his age and in this age, is confused about versions?

mazaje:

I know we will disagree on that but he did provide some evidence. . .You are taking a revisionist position and reading from the reacted english translation of the bible that does not do actual justice to the original hebrew. . . For example Genesis 31:13, which quite simply reads "I am the god Bethel" ('El Bet'el).

Even the first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me," does not deny the existence of other deities and shows that the people had to be worshiping other Gods for such a commandment to have been issued to dissuade them from worshiping other Gods and worshiping Yahweh alone. The bible clearly shows that the people worshiped other Gods and were not all monotheist.

That's it in a nutshell.
Thank you.

The major bone of contention between Yahweh and the Israelites throughout the old testament was the worship of other gods. That was Yahweh's major headache. It was not about a few insignificant misguided few. If it was just a few men and women playing truancy with yahweh, it would have been easy for Yahweh and his priests and prophets to rid the land of these few.
The worship of other gods were so entrenched, as evidently ephasized in the bible, that Yahweh at times vowed to wipe them, the entire nation, from the face of the earth.
Imagine king Solomon, certainly one of the most beloved, revered and popular king of ancient Israel, being a polytheist. That alone says a lot about polytheism in ancient Israel.

mazaje:

I know we will disagree on that but he did provide some evidence. . .You are taking a revisionist position and reading from the reacted english translation of the bible that does not do actual justice to the original hebrew. . . For example Genesis 31:13, which quite simply reads "I am the god Bethel" ('El Bet'el).

Even the first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before me," does not deny the existence of other deities and shows that the people had to be worshiping other Gods for such a commandment to have been issued to dissuade them from worshiping other Gods and worshiping Yahweh alone. The bible clearly shows that the people worshiped other Gods and were not all monotheist.

you have not stated anything new. You have to realize the context in which the first commandment was made. At that time the jews were still making their way through the wilderness and had to pass through several nations and cultures along the way. Obviously there were occasions when some allowed the gods of the nations they passed through to influence them. Secondly, we know that the crowd that left Egypt was a "mixed multitude"... it wasnt a homogenous collection of jews but included people from other cultures who would have brought their own gods along with them and influenced a number of jews.

The crux of the matter is simple - was polytheism an ENSHRINED part of jewish culture? The undeniable proof = NO.

plaetton:

That's it in a nutshell.
Thank you.

The major bone of contention between Yahweh and the Israelites throughout the old testament was the worship of other gods. That was Yahweh's major headache. It was not about a few insignificant misguided few. If it was just a few men and women playing truancy with yahweh, it would have been easy for Yahweh and his priests and prophets to rid the land of these few.
The worship of other gods were so entrenched, as evidently ephasized in the bible, that Yahweh at times vowed to wipe them, the entire nation, from the face of the earth.
Imagine king Solomon, certainly one of the most beloved, revered and popular king of ancient Israel, being a polytheist. That alone says a lot about polytheism in ancient Israel.

It actually says very little. If you studied the case of solomon rather than just making an off-hand comment... you would realize that his turn to worshiping other gods began with his marriage to foreign wives who brought their gods with them. these gods were not a part of jewish culture.

plaetton:


Ha ha ha hahha .

This is the biggestt laugh of the day. So now its about versions? You are not sure about this version?
Is is this a defence? I have to give you credit. This is the most brilliant defence I have ever read o nairaland.

How many versions are there of the word of god?
So some versions are trueer than other versions.
You , my friend, just BETRAYED your bible and religion.
Can one have a meaning argument with a person,a christian champion, who at his age and in this age, is confused about versions?

That version is strangely at odds with most other reliable versions when it comes to that verse. It is what it is... even a christian cannot have read every single verse of the bible in every single version... to pretend so is to be disingenuous.

davidylan:

That version is strangely at odds with most other reliable versions when it comes to that verse. It is what it is... even a christian cannot have read every single verse of the bible in every single version... to pretend so is to be disingenuous.

Doesnt it show that your bible is a bastardized piece of confusing garbage?

Logicboy03:

Doesnt it show that your bible is a bastardized piece of confusing garbage?

you are entitled to your opinion bro.

davidylan:

you are entitled to your opinion bro.

Is your signature biblical? (Women... bed one get the friend for free!)


Trololololol

Logicboy03:

Doesnt it show that your bible is a bastardized piece of confusing garbage?

How can you use the word "say" when the man himself admits it, with 10 very uniquely captivating words, in the plainest english.

davidylan:

That version (1)
is strangely (2)
at odds (3)
with most (4)
other reliable (5) (HUH Other reliable? So we have a reliability problem? )
versions (6)
when it comes to that verse (7)
. It is what it is (
... even a christian cannot have read every single verse of the bible (9)
in every single version (10)
... to pretend so is to be disingenuous.

This is EPIC!

Need I, or anyone for that matter, say more?

Davidylan, I hereby ban you ]from ever discussing or debating any issues relating to the bible , until such a time that you have demostrated to us , that you have rid yourself of ,and sorted out the tangled web of confusing versions of your bible, all conveying different ideas and contradicting one another.

Do you hear me?.
You are not qualified to discuss bible untill you sort yourself out.
Ok?

plaetton:

How can you use the word "say" when the man himself admits, with 10 very uniquely captivating words, it in the plainest english.




Need I, or anyone for that matter, say more?

Davidylan, I hereby ban you ]from ever discussing or debating any issues relating to the bible , until such a time that you have demostrated to us , that you have rid yourself of ,and sorted out the tangled web of confusing versions of your bible, all conveying different ideas and contradicting one another.

Do you here me?.
You are not qualified to discuss bible untill you sort yourself out.
Ok?

I would have taken you seriously if you were interested in discussing the bible as well. As it stands all you're interested in doing is copy-pasting from blogs issues that are largely superficial to your own understanding.

I mean lets get serious here... this is someone who didnt know deut 32 was a song despite claiming to have "read" it and after numerous corrections from anony, here was someone who told us the jews celebrated the feast of tammuz today without even consulting google first to verify his statement... now telling others what and what not to "discuss"? Quite rich i must say.

plaetton:

How can you use the word "say" when the man himself admits it, with 10 very uniquely captivating words, in the plainest english.



This is EPIC!

Need I, or anyone for that matter, say more?

Davidylan, I hereby ban you ]from ever discussing or debating any issues relating to the bible , until such a time that you have demostrated to us , that you have rid yourself of ,and sorted out the tangled web of confusing versions of your bible, all conveying different ideas and contradicting one another.

Do you here me?.
You are not qualified to discuss bible untill you sort yourself out.
Ok?

Brutality!

See finishing!

Logicboy03:


Brutality!

See finishing!

plaetton:

Seriously, there is no comeback for Davidylan!!


That was superb! You debunked him with his own words!

plaetton: The first thing that anyone reading the bible will notice in almost all the old testament books is the image of Yahweh/El-Shaddai, lord, creator and commander of the universe, weeping and sulking about being abandoned by the Children of Israel to worship other gods.

In view of this, how can anyone who reads the bible seriously claim that the Israelites were not polytheistic?

How?

the name of the Jewish God is Yahweh.

I notice that you have been trying to changes name to El-shaddai to suite you theory of El and what have you.

Do you know the meaning of the word El-shaddai?

There are many WORDs that are used to praised Yahweh in the bible that are not necessary his name but attribute (eg. powerful, strong, great, man of war, etc)

that does not change the name of God to the attributes.

If i should say that satan is powerful and the bible also said that Yahweh is powerful, does that now change the name of satan to powerful?

Or does that now made satan and Yahweh to bear/answer the same names? No.

The name of Yahweh is not Elshaddi.

Find out the meaning of elshaddai please sir.

plaetton:

Your ability for mental gymnastics is simply amazing. You are giving me an assignment? .
For what purpose, to prove my points or yours? You are very funny.

You are, I assume,are a medium to high IQ individual. Do not pretend to be any less.
You cannot rely on just one source as authentic histroy without relying on other contempraneous soures to get a full picture of historicsl facts and trends.
Now, if you are adamant that you would not consider any evidence outside our your bible in evaluating historical facts, then I say boldy that you are therefore not qualified to argue and have this calibre of debate.

My point was to establish first of all that yahweh was one among a pantheon of gods that the ancient hebrews acknowledged and at times worshipped.
By the same token I wanted to prove that yahweh was known in Canaan, perhaps by another name, in this case El- Shaddai, whom , I have proved, was one of the pantheon of Canaanite gods.

I used the both the bible and the Ugarith texts,a genuine ,historically and scientifically accepted original texts, free from eclesiastical tampering, redactions, revisions, translations and transliterations, to to butress my argument that El-Shaddai, aka Yahweh, was one among a pantheon of Hebrew and Canaanite Gods.

You seem to be desperately clutching at straws.
WTF else (excuse my language) are you tallking about?

Pls tell me which part of your bible you do not agree with first, before you begin to repudiate the Ugarith texts, as I am expecting you to do.

However, if you intend to repudiate the Ugarith texts, you would either have to quote a historical or an academic authority repudiating and giving alternate renderings, or, you wuold have to author a peer reviewable academic treatise of your own. Nothing short of these would suffice.
Your blind faith in the scriptures alone will not measure up in this particular case.
Ok?

im very sorry for jumping into your arguement, i have been following it from page one, it seems you didnt notice that you just distroyed your arguement using your own texts. *The 'documentary' u provided showed that the canaanites truly worship a great many gods and the hebrews live among them and most probably borrowed many of their gods, yes! But it didnt stop there, *ur 'documentary' also shows that the prophets of the old testament condemn those many gods and ascribed their names, titles and 'porfolio' to the one God of israel wu they called yahweh, *ur 'documentary' also showed that d israelites were known to betray their 'one God' and go back to d gods of the canaanites and the bible bears witness to that. We will fooling ourselves if u considered one point and throw two others away, ur documentary didnt say d bible admits to many gods, instead it says d psalmist and prophet transfered the names titles and 'porfolio' of those gods to yahweh thru a process called assimilation.
Please if my analysis of ur proof seem baise to ur texts pls fault it. The texts u provided didnt say d bible preached many gods instead it say the writter of d bible transfered d porfolio of the gods of the canaanites to the God of israel.
Atlast it goes back to square one. Yous proof texts doesnt support ur hypothesis that the authors of the bible were using el and yahweh to refer to two gods instead it support anony and co who maintain that the God of the bible is one even those d bible ascribes all d good qualities of d canaanite gods to him.
Do you get my point?

wiegraf: Allow me to interject needlessly. Well, actually, I will do so whether y'all like it or not (note I never claim to be mature).
@anony, are you cracking under the pressure? Breathe, man, breathe. You don't want to become afflicted with a certain disorder that seems to hit long time religionists on here. I'm sure they were sane at some point in time, but gradually gave in to the madness. Breath, man, breath.

Never even heard of ugarith before, but would you accept their text as valid in this discussion?

hahaha, funny, really who say the ugarith text must be correct? Nobody! But it will do us good to consider the proof brought forward. Personally the thread has been illuminating but i dont see the conclusion plaeton seems to be making, he seems to be reading into the text.

mazaje:

When the Most High apportioned the nations, when he divided humankind, he fixed the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the gods; the LORD's own portion was his people, Jacob his allotted share.

Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (NRSV)

i dont know where you got this from.

mazaje: according to the number of the gods;

the words there is not gods.

Ubenedictus: im very sorry for jumping into your arguement, i have been following it from page one, it seems you didnt notice that you just distroyed your arguement using your own texts. *The 'documentary' u provided showed that the canaanites truly worship a great many gods and the hebrews live among them and most probably borrowed many of their gods, yes! But it didnt stop there, *ur 'documentary' also shows that the prophets of the old testament condemn those many gods and ascribed their names, titles and 'porfolio' to the one God of israel wu they called yahweh, *ur 'documentary' also showed that d israelites were known to betray their 'one God' and go back to d gods of the canaanites and the bible bears witness to that. We will fooling ourselves if u considered one point and throw two others away, ur documentary didnt say d bible admits to many gods, instead it says d psalmist and prophet transfered the names titles and 'porfolio' of those gods to yahweh thru a process called assimilation.
Please if my analysis of ur proof seem baise to ur texts pls fault it. The texts u provided didnt say d bible preached many gods instead it say the writter of d bible transfered d porfolio of the gods of the canaanites to the God of israel.
Atlast it goes back to square one. Yous proof texts doesnt support ur hypothesis that the authors of the bible were using el and yahweh to refer to two gods instead it support anony and co who maintain that the God of the bible is one even those d bible ascribes all d good qualities of d canaanite gods to him.
Do you get my point?

Actaully sir, you seem to have agreed with me in totallity.

My argument, though it branched off into other issues, is very simple.
That thee Israelites were polytheistic, just like their Canaanite neighbors.
That is, though Yahweh was their chief god, they worshiped other gods along with him.
And I used several verses in the bible to illustrate yahweh's frustration with the Israelites who did not heed his warnings about worshiping other gods.
That is all.
I used the BBC documentary and the Ugarith texts simply to show that these are not just my personal opinions, but are historically accepted facts.

truthislight:

the name of the Jewish God is Yahweh.

I notice that you have been trying to changes name to El-shaddai to suite you theory of El and what have you.

Do you know the meaning of the word El-shaddai?

There are many WORDs that are used to praised Yahweh in the bible that are not necessary his name but attribute (eg. powerful, strong, great, man of war, etc)

that does not change the name of God to the attributes.

If i should say that satan is powerful and the bible also said that Yahweh is powerful, does that now change the name of satan to powerful?

Or does that now made satan and Yahweh to bear/answer the same names? No.

The name of Yahweh is not Elshaddi.

Find out the meaning of elshaddai please sir.

Sir, have u been reading my posts.
in the bible,Yahweh clearly and unambigously tells Moses, that he (Yahweh) was known in olden times as El-shaddai.
Have you not seen this in the bible?
If you dispute that, please go and iron it out with Yahweh. Its your word against those of Yahweh. lol.

davidylan:

I would have taken you seriously if you were interested in discussing the bible as well. As it stands all you're interested in doing is copy-pasting from blogs issues that are largely superficial to your own understanding.

I mean lets get serious here... this is someone who didnt know deut 32 was a song despite claiming to have "read" it and after numerous corrections from anony, here was someone who told us the jews celebrated the feast of tammuz today without even consulting google first to verify his statement... now telling others what and what not to "discuss"? Quite rich i must say.

but that ^^^ has happened on this thread.

plaetton:

Sir, have u been reading my posts.
in the bible,Yahweh clearly and unambigously tells Moses, that he (Yahweh) was known in olden times as El-shaddai.
Have you not seen this in the bible?
If you dispute that, please go and iron it out with Yahweh. Its your word against those of Yahweh. lol.

^^^

very funny.

Ok, its learning time and plaeton is the tutor.
Can you cite/refer us to the bible portion that said that?

plaetton: Yahweh clearly and unambigously tells Moses, that he (Yahweh) was known in olden times as El-shaddai.

mind you, the exact word has to be "elshaddai" and not the meaning of elshaddai please.

Am waiting.

plaetton:

That's it in a nutshell.
Thank you.

The major bone of contention between Yahweh and the Israelites throughout the old testament was the worship of other gods. That was Yahweh's major headache. It was not about a few insignificant misguided few. If it was just a few men and women playing truancy with yahweh, it would have been easy for Yahweh and his priests and prophets to rid the land of these few.
The worship of other gods were so entrenched, as evidently ephasized in the bible, that Yahweh at times vowed to wipe them, the entire nation, from the face of the earth.
Imagine king Solomon, certainly one of the most beloved, revered and popular king of ancient Israel, being a polytheist. That alone says a lot about polytheism in ancient Israel.

your just succeeded in proving that many in ancient israel were polytheist yet you havent proved that polytheism is part of judaism nor have you proved that polytheism is part of the jewish culture. I can go very far to prove that many christians in africa in the past serve more than one god, yet that isnt proof that christianity is polytheist. So really, you havent proved that the jews were polytheist since u cant prove that polytheism is fundamental to judaism and a part of it culture.

plaetton:

Actaully sir, you seem to have agreed with me in totallity.
My argument, though it branched off into other issues, is very simple.
That thee Israelites were polytheistic, just like their Canaanite neighbors.

hahaha, "the israelites were polytheist", you havent proved that!!! You have showed from your documentary that the isrealite prophets in an effort to close the mouth of the pagans transfered the porfolios of a great many gods to ONE GOD, how does that support you The bible shows the prophet again and again condemning the polytheism of the canaanites and egyptians, does that still support you??

That is, though Yahweh was their chief god, they worshiped other gods along with him.

and does judaism agree with the practice? Can you show that that practice is part of judaism? D jew live among polytheist and some jews copied the practice, but u havent showed me that judaism support polytheism.

And I used several verses in the bible to illustrate yahweh's frustration with the Israelites who did not heed his warnings about worshiping other gods.

those are proof against you, u succeeded in showing us that judaism spits on polytheism

That is all.
I used the BBC documentary and the Ugarith texts simply to show that these are not just my personal opinions, but are historically accepted facts.

nah you have used those texts to support anony that scriptures and prophet ascribes everything d canaanites ascribed to their many gods to just one God wu they called yahweh. Your proof text insults your arguements.

Ubenedictus: your just succeeded in proving that many in ancient israel were polytheist yet you havent proved that polytheism is part of judaism nor have you proved that polytheism is part of the jewish culture. I can go very far to prove that many christians in africa in the past serve more than one god, yet that isnt proof that christianity is polytheist. So really, you havent proved that the jews were polytheist since u cant prove that polytheism is fundamental to judaism and a part of it culture.

bro, it is doubtful that plaetton will ever get this point... since it completely unravels his point of view hence rendering the thread useless.

plaetton:

Sir, have u been reading my posts.
in the bible,Yahweh clearly and unambigously tells Moses, that he (Yahweh) was known in olden times as El-shaddai.
Have you not seen this in the bible?
If you dispute that, please go and iron it out with Yahweh. Its your word against those of Yahweh. lol.

Again you seem to be largely ignorant of truthislight's point. That El-shaddai is not as much a name as it is a title/attribute. Perhaps you might also claim that Elohim, El Elyon e.t.c. are names of the gods of the polytheistic jews?

Ubenedictus: hahaha, "the israelites were polytheist", you havent proved that!!! You have showed from your documentary that the isrealite prophets in an effort to close the mouth of the pagans transfered the porfolios of a great many gods to ONE GOD, how does that support you The bible shows the prophet again and again condemning the polytheism of the canaanites and egyptians, does that still support you??
and does judaism agree with the practice? Can you show that that practice is part of judaism? D jew live among polytheist and some jews copied the practice, but u havent showed me that judaism support polytheism.
those are proof against you, u succeeded in showing us that judaism spits on polytheism
nah you have used those texts to support anony that scriptures and prophet ascribes everything d canaanites ascribed to their many gods to just one God wu they called yahweh. Your proof text insults your arguements.

Correction correction.
Pls go back and read everything that I have posted. I dont understand you guys and your spins.

I have never claimed that Judaism supported polytheism.
If it did, I dont hink we would be having this argument. Judaism is centered around the worship of Jahweh, so how could any sensible person make such a claim?.

How many times do I have repeat it to you guys? All I have claimed , and proved with plenty of evidence from the bible, is that the Israelites, for their entire history, from Egypt, to their return from exile, worshipped other gods besides yahweh.
Period.

I have quoted many many bible verses verbatim to show that.
If you disagree with the bible, i would love to watch you, any of you, debunk your own bible.
Leave me alone and debunk the words, in plain english, of all the bible verses I have cited.

Stop the verbal gymanstics.

plaetton:

Correction correction.
Pls go back and read everything that I have posted. I dont understand you guys and your spins.

I have never claimed that Judaism supported polytheism.
If it did, I dont hink we would be having this argument. Judaism is centered around the worship of Jahweh, so how could any sensible person make such a claim?.

How many times do I have repeat it to you guys? All I have claimed , and proved with plenty of evidence from the bible, is that the Israelites, for their entire history, from Egypt, to their return from exile, worshipped other gods besides yahweh.
Period.

I have quoted many many bible verses verbatim to show that.
If you disagree with the bible, i would love to watch you, any of you, debunk your own bible.
Leave me alone and debunk the words, in plain english, of all the bible verses I have cited.

Stop the verbal gymanstics.

Makes me wonder what your point for this thread is then. Everyone from anony to ubenedictus agrees to the facts highlighted in blue. Your point being? I'm not sure what you needed to "prove"... we've all known that since we were 3 yrs old.