@Debosky
thanks for speaking without bias

@Almondjoy
One word for you woman!
Pro 9:13 A foolish woman is noisy; she is simple and knows nothing.
Stop your noise, sit down and listen just for once!

Gamine:

@Michelin
My sister, i don't get your point completely
what i do understand is we werent made any less than men
Due to the fall, we are in the situation we are in now
If the neck is cut off, will there be any hope for life? No
If the head is hit, or the brain is dead, there is still hope
Dont downplay the importance of this, if its so unnecesary why isnt the head firmly attached to d body.

When the brain is dead, there is no life. You are a liability to people so being physically dead is 100 times better. What I am saying is that no matter the way we put it we are always in a supportive role. Whether you are the backbone or the neck, you are not the main pillar, you can be substituted any time, any day.

I have seen some men whose necks are barely visible. Their heads are almost attached to their bodies as to say how important these are. If the neck was of such great importance we all should be having long necks so we can show it off. But hey, the thing just dey there, nor be say.

Let's be real. There is nothing to be happy about in a supportive role. No one likes to be second whether man or woman.

ok Michelin i get what you mean

So what do you want to do about it?

We have much more to play than being a supportive system
Think about this for one minute
God only made Adam.
















Years and years pass, only Adam is walking on earth
tending the garden,

how does the picture look like.

If you keep fighting to be like the male
you will be blinded to the many valuable gifts you possess as female

The only thing that makes some guys act the way they do towards women
is ignorance and the women that accept it, insecurity

debosky:



almond and d-reloaded

y'all are both funny

but seriously, you both have gone off the mark in some sense

the OP makes some assertions as to what she views feminism as representing, and contrasts it with femininity, it is all up to her to support that argument by using the bible if she wants to, but to bring your preconceived notions of 'African women' is not really useful in this case, neither is the attempt to divorce a person's view from their faith.

Maybe you make that distinction, not everyone does. The American culture of 'sterilizing' everything to be able to stand without religion does not always make sense either, for what is a man/woman without some moral compass?

Ok I'm rambling, back to topic.

Gamine has a point, any 'feminist' as she has described above is certainly a deluded one who will not achieve true change apart from replacing the domineering man with a domineering woman. If 'femininity' according to D-reloaded simply comprises of sleeping with a man, then you have done women a great disservice, there is a lot more to it than that.

The term 'equality' also needs to be carefully examined, can any two things as different as a man and woman ever be equal?
Sure you can pay them the same for doing the same task (That I advocate for strongly) recognise them when they achieve and give equal opportunity to to lead when they are capable but it will be folly to think that women will be less vulnerable in times of war simply because they are now 'equal' or subject them to the same treatment as men in all situations. Or to think that there aren't specific roles man/woman are naturally created for.

Herein lies the excellent question as asked by michelin 'who defines a woman and what she can do?' according to Gamine, the bible does, and she is wholly entitled to that opinion, If you hold a contrary view, simply state that without resorting to personal attacks - you simply appear to be playing out the stereotype of the 'angry woman aka feminist' as described above.

How will you not support her? So this is your interpretation of the precedings? Why am I not surprised?

Gamine:

@Debosky
thanks for speaking without bias

@Almondjoy
One word for you woman!
Pro 9:13 A foolish woman is noisy; she is simple and knows nothing.
Stop your noise, sit down and listen just for once!

I am so sorry for you.  But I just love your "rustic simplicity"!!!

_{Bush Girl!}

michelin89:


When the brain is dead, there is no life.


You are a liability to people so being physically dead is 100 times better. What I am saying is that no matter the way we put it we are always in a supportive role. Whether you are the backbone or the neck, you are not the main pillar, you can be substituted any time, any day.

I have seen some men whose necks are barely visible. Their heads are almost attached to their bodies as to say how important these are. If the neck was of such great importance we all should be having long necks so we can show it off. But hey, the thing just dey there, nor be say.

Let's be real. There is nothing to be happy about in a supportive role. No one likes to be second whether man or woman.

I say the girll na "Okpeke"!!!  But you just have to love her!

Gamine:

ok Michelin i get what you mean

So what do you want to do about it?

We have much more to play than being a supportive system
Think about this for one minute
God only made Adam.


Years and years pass, only Adam is walking on earth
tending the garden,

how does the picture look like.

If you keep fighting to be like the male
you will be blinded to the many valuable gifts you possess as female

The only thing that makes some guys act the way they do towards women
is ignorance and the women that accept it, insecurity

What a raving looney Bin!

Keep making noise missus Militia
Your antics dont work on me

i will keep praying for your soul
because your struggle stems from the spiritual

Gamine:

Keep making noise missus Militia
Your antics don't work on me

i will keep praying for your soul
because your struggle stems from the spiritual

Thank you!  Off to bed ma dear! Contrary to what most might think, some of us really have full time jobs!  See you at midnight, when my "chores" are done! Nairaland is only for my spare time--and thank God I have a lot of it to spare!  Thanks also to a gainfully employed spouse.

Later my dear.

@ Gamine

Don't tell me you take that crap about Adam, Eve and the apple to be true? Come on, even the great xtians know it's just a way of explaining creation. God is omniscent. He knew right from the start that Adam would be lonely, another reason why there is a fallcay of a subsequent creation of the woman. Man and woman were created together. That "rib" is a way of justifying the complicity of both sexes, how they ought to support each other and how they compliment each other.

Stop quoting the bible literally. You are confusing truths of the faith with biologic and scientific truths.

In reality, people know that we as individuals, before being men and women are different. Exceptions break the rule. Have you ever wondered why some men don't fit into the "leader" role? Why some women are better at taking decision?

At this point someone could say a dumb man should search for a dumber woman so he can continue to be the leader, but then we can't decide who to love. Can't you see the numerous fallacy of this male supremacy? It doesn't hold.

Individuals should be given equal opportunity to prove what they are worth. This life is nothing but a competition. You can't expect someone else to step back for you. That is selfishness and also a form of disrespect because at the end of the day you'll forget that this person is actually hiding in the dark so you can shine and you'll take his/her kindness for foolishness.

There is nothing feminine in behaving like the weak ones who need protection: first from your father and then from your husband. Of course there are times in your life you'll need the affection of your loved one but let's not confuse it with subordination.

Another point: do you really think that all men are happy of having such a heavy responsibility on their shoulders? How would you feel if as a human being you are not allowed to show a sign of hesitation, you can't lean on someone for consolation, you can't have moments of nonsuccess, you can't have a cry of commotion, without being considered unworthy to be what you are?

Being femnine is a pain in the ass to both men and women. You are a liability, an impostor and an opportunist. You are a pretender and deserve no form of respect and that's what is happening today.

How many men really respect ladies who are lady-like? How many respect their dignity and their personas? I'll tell you: Very few.

oh Michelin!

i see you don't believe the bible,

i was gona ask you to read Proverbs 31
it sums the way of a woman

in fact the so called feminists can hardly do what
she is portrayed as doing


Pro 31:10 Who can find a woman of virtue? For her value is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband trusts safely in her, so that he shall have no need of plunder.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeks wool and flax, and works willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she brings her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She also rises while it is still night, and gives food to her household, and a share to her young women.
Pro 31:16 She considers a field, and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She binds her loins with strength, and makes her arms strong.
Pro 31:18 She sees that her merchandise is good; her lamp does not go out by night.
Pro 31:19 She lays her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretches out her hand to the poor; yea, she reaches forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household; for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She makes herself coverings; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She makes fine linen and sells it, and delivers girdles to the merchants.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honor are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She opens her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looks well to the ways of her household, and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her sons rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done well, but you excel them all.
Pro 31:30 Favor is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears Jehovah, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

michelin89:

How many men really respect ladies who are lady-like? How many respect their dignity and their personas? I'll tell you: Very few.

I do and i believe MANY MEN do.
A woman should be submissive to her husband. Being submissive is not stupidity.
The Scripture is clear about this. The man submits to God; the woman submits to the man and God . . . . .
It is as simple as that.

The world caved in when the issue of equality came to light.
Its pathetic when u look at the rate at which couples divorce. Kids are being raised without a father figure because women won't remain submissive to their husbands. Kids raised by single parents are more likely to end up being shot or locked up than the ones raised in a conventional family unit.
Feminists should do some soul searching.

@ Gamine,

Are u a pastor?

I don't like debating like this. It should be a challenge between our personal opinions.

I feel depressed.

However let's take a look at what you have written:

Gamine:

oh Michelin!

i see you don't believe the bible,

That is a fact plus u guys should stop quoting the bible as it's written. It makes absolutely no sense.

Gamine:

Pro 31:10 Who can find a woman of virtue? For her value is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband trusts safely in her, so that he shall have no need of plunder.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeks wool and flax, and works willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she brings her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She also rises while it is still night, and gives food to her household, and a share to her young women.
Pro 31:16 She considers a field, and buys it; with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She binds her loins with strength, and makes her arms strong.
Pro 31:18 She sees that her merchandise is good; her lamp does not go out by night.
Pro 31:19 She lays her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretches out her hand to the poor; yea, she reaches forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household; for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She makes herself coverings; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She makes fine linen and sells it, and delivers girdles to the merchants.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honor are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She opens her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looks well to the ways of her household, and does not eat the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her sons rise up and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praises her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done well, but you excel them all.
Pro 31:30 Favor is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears Jehovah, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.

Big sister, if the perfect man doesn't exist, what makes you think a perfect woman exist?

coming from a book written by men, i couldn't expect otherwise!

Debo just because you are trying to get into Gamine's thong doesnt mean you should put words in my mouth.

Contray to popular belief Feminism is NOT a fight against feminity. Stop confusing the former with Fem-nazism.

With everything michelin wrote (most of which I agree with btw), the girl couldnt even answer the question, just throwing the book at Proverbs at someone who doesnt believe in the Bible in the first place. How is this a fair discussion anymore

Rofl all her husbands have come to her rescue.

Even that "your mother is this and that" cretin is quoting Bible.

Lmao I don die.

Chacal:

I do and i believe MANY MEN do.
A woman should be submissive to her husband. Being submissive is not stupidity.
The Scripture is clear about this. The man submits to God; the woman submits to the man and God . . . . .
It is as simple as that.

Stop quoting the bible like a parrot. use your head for once!

Chacal:

The world caved in when the issue of equality came to light.
Its pathetic when u look at the rate at which couples divorce. Kids are being raised without a father figure because women won't remain submissive to their husbands. Kids raised by single parents are more likely to end up being shot or locked up than the ones raised in a conventional family unit.
Feminists should do some soul searching.

I used to be told: "If you have to be stupid to make things work, be stupid" Did you know what I did? I bleeped them off.

Chacal darling, don't blame us for your incapability. If really women are the ones who need protection and guidance then there is no need of submission from them. You should be able to rule them because your were given the power as a man.

Only a fool would be crying that his marriage failed because his wife wouldnn't submit. That means the man was a failure. He nor sabi. Don't go for a woman who is better than you and expect her to step back. If you are a mumu, go for someone more mumu and let us live in peace.

Imagine, illiterate go marry graduate and want her to allow him to take care of the house finance? Let's use common sense guys.

michelin89:

Chacal darling, don't blame us for your incapability. If really women are the ones who need protection and guidance then there is no need of submission from them. You should be able to rule them because your were given the power as a man.

Only a fool would be crying that his marriage failed because his wife wouldnn't submit. That means the man was a failure. He nor sabi. Don't go for a woman who is better than you and expect her to step back. If you are a mumu, go for someone more mumu and let us live in peace,

My friend, I bow for you and you know I just don't bow for anyone. 

Make you teach your Edo sister. Me, I give up since I'm merely an agent of darkness. Rofl.

@Michelin

What are those things you highlighted?
why did you highlight them?

The perfect woman dosnt exist i know
but the bible never made mention of her being perfect
those are just things she does.

Anyways Mich,
What are we to do
what are women to do in this world
Dont be depressed abeg

@RLoaded
calling yourself an agent of darkness?
see how human beings put themselves inside soup
God have mercy!

Gamine:

@Michelin

What are those things you highlighted?
why did you highlight them?

I needed them to keep the essence of the verses in mind.

Gamine:

The perfect woman dosnt exist i know
but the bible never made mention of her being perfect
those are just things she does.

The bible doesn't have to mention it. That is the definition of an ideal woman.

Gamine:

Anyways Mich,
What are we to do
what are women to do in this world
Dont be depressed abeg

No I am depressed because you keep quoting the bible.
Let's have an equal debate.

@ michelin89,

This is not about incapability . . .
Thang is. . . .women can't have it both ways. Y'all regard yaselves as the weaker sex and u talk about equality?
How does that add up? If u are weaker than me then we can't be equal, babes.

If women sincerely believe in the so-called equality . . they should start doing the things men do. Let em go to WAR. Affirmative action and the 2-tiered system Wisconsin has got going should be stopped because those are reverse discrimination on its own. Judges should stop handing WOMEN lesser sentences than men because they can blame their CRIMES on PMS or the good ol' menopause.

You said men should be able to rule women? Isn't that happening in most parts of the world?
If a female graduate is blind and stupid enough to marry an illiterate man then she should be ready to face the consequences. A man should be the head of his house. Why do women answer their husband's last name? Brideprice? Move to ma house? and u are STILL here talking about equality?

Please come back with a better defense and stop rubbing minds with A CHIMP  that functions on a single digit IQ.

Chacal:

@ michelin89,

This is not about incapability . . .
Thang is. . . .women can't have it both ways. Y'all regard yaselves as the weaker sex and u talk about equality?
How does that add up?

If women sincerely believe in the so-called equality . . they should start doing the things men do. Let em go to WAR. Affirmative action and the 2-tiered system Wisconsin has got going should be stopped because those are reverse discrimination on its own. Judges should stop handing WOMEN lesser sentences than men because they can blame their CRIMES on PMS or and the good ol' menopause.

You said men should be able to rule women? Isn't that happening in most parts of the world?
If a female graduate is blind and stupid enough to marry an illiterate man then she should be ready to face the consequences. A man should be the head of his house. Why do women answer their husband's last name? Brideprice? Move to ma house? and u are STILL here talking about equality?

Please come back with a better defense and stop rubbing minds with A CHIMP that functions on a single digit IQ.

I don't even want to start with you yet. i'll wait for the others.

AJ and TOH, oya make una come. We don buy market!

LOL
sorry Mich

ok Lets go debate

What are women to do now?

Do all the things that men do like chacal said?

and dont even include those people
they obviously hv issues with the poster not the posted!

michelin, now that her husbands don arrive, I've taken my leave.

Dont have time for two faced bastards. He's your friend (for now) abi? You deal with him.

Me and my single digit IQ will stay in the corner (lol havent heard that "diss" since the 4th grade)  

You KNOW I consider you to be very smart for your age, you'll do fine but I assure you that it wont be an equal debate.

I would think these people are aware that you don't really believe in the BIble and take that into consideration for this kind of discussion but that's really all they have.  

michelin89:

I don't even want to start with you yet. i'll wait for the others.

AJ and TOH, oya make una come. We don buy market!

Please, I dash you my dear!

Thank you! May the forces be with you. I have washed my hands and arse of this case!


_{Observing from long range!}

Feminism and femininity are not mutually exclusive by any stretch of the imagination.A completely pointless thread if you ask me.

Gamine is probably referring to those at the extreme of the feminist movement.If so,she should make this clear.What is it they say about incoherent thinking producing incoherent commentary?

Every movement or way of life has its extremes.The extremes in themselves do not undermine their overriding justification.Indeed,there are extremes of femininity- cue,the millions of willing female 'doormats' like this admittedly extreme but funny example

michelin89:

I don't even want to start with you yet. i'll wait for the others.

AJ and TOH, oya make una come. We don buy market!

Go and bring the whole NL to slug this out with me.
While you are at it. . . . .U can also ask what Chacal is all about . . . . .
I am YET to lose any argument i get maself in.

U cannot be the weaker sex and demand equality.

For me in my own opinion, Proverbs 31 in the bible under old Testament is the old-fashioned ideal women that does not match today's ideal women.(modernization).

Proverbs 31 in the bible DOES NOT HAVE computer, modern electricity, cellphone/phone and automobile long before the women's rights was invented early 1800s. What women do in the past are not the same as what women do presently!

@Gamine

If you do not like it the way women do today(modernization), why don't you throw away computer, cellphone, etc and forget about career you have to be submissive housewife staying home to your husband the old fashioned way following the Proverbs 31 way?

You cannot talk back to your husband, you cannot loud mouth/smart mouth to your husband, and you must accept what husband tells you to do even abuse, slap, etc. Your husband have the power to control you as Proverbs 31 said. You submit your husband and God!

Now this is getting really interesting.

D-reloaded:

michelin, now that her husbands don arrive, I've taken my leave.

Dont have time for two faced bastards. He's your friend (for now) abi? You deal with him.

Me and my single digit IQ will stay in the corner (lol havent heard that "diss" since the 4th grade) 

You KNOW I consider you to be very smart for your age, you'll do fine but I assure you that it wont be an equal debate.

I would think these people are aware that you don't really believe in the BIble and take that into consideration for this kind of discussion but that's really all they have. 

Wise decision my dear.  I really under-estimated your wisdom in my past "follies"!  I beg yor forgiveness! The best decision yet! I am right behind you!

michelin89:

I don't even want to start with you yet. i'll wait for the others.

AJ and TOH, oya make una come. We don buy market!

By the time you see all these goons here, no be only farm you go buy.  You go buy cemetary too.  This is fast becoming a zombee jamboree. You better get out of here and fast too!

_{Exiting through the rear door.  Never to be seen in any "queen zombie's" thread ever again!  Phoeeeeeeeeee!!!!}

Gosh i dunno know what to say now

Ignorance sure is a bad thing!

they are now washing hands and arses, great riddance!

i need this thread clear of biased/twisted minds!

@iman
pointless thread?
didnt ask you to post
didnt ask for ur opinion
but thnks!

@uspry
dnt bother
because apparently you dont bliv in d bible too

dont make any personal attack here, thanks

Gamine, stop acting like victim jare.  I just went thru my TOH's profile sef to see if I've ever really had a problem with you and I didnt see anything.

I dont think i've ever had anything against you other than you're quite naive and you are one of those overbearing people that cant accept that not everyone believes in the same thing but you're still young so i can see past that.

My problem is just with people in general who argue like you. I mean you cant just assume Everyone believes in your religion. You cant just argue blindly like that. Quite a number of people on this board alone are agnostic/atheist, they just give themselves whatever title to avoid being chased around like you've been doing. It's one thing if you are with people you KNOW have the same beliefs but if not you will have to use general sense to deal with such issues

I dont think you'd be fine with having an arguement and a person throws words from  the Qu'ran at you, that wouldnt be fair now would it? It's one thing if the topic is something religious, but it's not

Just my own o.

Chacal:

@ michelin89,

This is not about incapability . . .
Thang is. . . .women can't have it both ways. Y'all regard yaselves as the weaker sex and u talk about equality?
How does that add up? If u are weaker than me then we can't be equal, babes.

Ehm, 1 IQed boy, come here and sit on my laps. You have so many things to learn about women.

First of all my not so intelligent son not being physically strong doesn't mean you are inferior? Tell me, how did David succeed in defeating Goliath who was 10000 times stronger than him? Haba you dey quote bible like say tomorrow nor dey and you nor fit use your head reason. Tell me have you ever interpreted the bible for once? No, that why are you intellectually shallow.

Goodguy and I are friends and he is/was a xtian. But I never for once got fed up of debating with him because he reasoned on every passage he took from the bible.

Chacal:

If women sincerely believe in the so-called equality . . they should start doing the things men do. Let em go to WAR. Affirmative action and the 2-tiered system Wisconsin has got going should be stopped because those are reverse discrimination on its own. Judges should stop handing WOMEN lesser sentences than men because they can blame their CRIMES on PMS or and the good ol' menopause.

Women are already going to war. Stop this pathetic attempt to discredit women. They are simply smarter than you are. After all men also use the "call of nature" as an excuse for rape.

Chacal:

You said men should be able to rule women? Isn't that happening in most parts of the world?
If a female graduate is blind and stupid enough to marry an illiterate man then she should be ready to face the consequences. A man should be the head of his house. Why do women answer their husband's last name? Brideprice? Move to ma house? and u are STILL here talking about equality?

1. How much does it take you to rule over an illiterate? Nothing.
2. Usually female graduates don't marry illiterates because they are wiser than that. And of course men go around crying. You might want to check this thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-104976.32.html
3. In Japan men answer women's surname.
4. In India the woman pays bride price
5. In Italy couples buy houses together
3. Yes I am still here. Oya come beat me.

Chacal:

Please come back with a better defense and stop rubbing minds with A CHIMP  that functions on a single digit IQ.

Then why are u still writing? It seems you know yourself too well.

Gamine:

LOL
sorry Mich

ok Lets go debate

What are women to do now?

Do all the things that men do like chacal said?

and don't even include those people
they obviously hv issues with the poster not the posted!

Not of course. Women don't have to do what men do  to prove themselves. As someone said, we need to value our differences. Men think that when someone isn't capable of doing what they can then they are inferior. This mentality is bad and also stupid.

Because Joe is better than me in maths doesn't make him more intelligent than I am when he can't even challenge me in philosophy. We are tired of being regarded as "babies" because of our differences. it's time this stopped.

Uhm, the wise ones are leaving.

I-man:

[b]Feminism and femininity are not mutually exclusive by any stretch of the imagination.[/b]A completely pointless thread if you ask me.

[b]Gamine is probably referring to those at the extreme of the feminist movement.[/b]If so,she should make this clear.What is it they say about incoherent thinking producing incoherent commentary?

Every movement or way of life has its extremes.The extremes in themselves do not undermine their overriding justification.Indeed,there are extremes of femininity

Exactly. It's ironic how when most people insult feminist or feminisM, they give examples of actions done by extreme femi-nazis. Like I said it's no different than comparing abortion clinic bombers and saying they speak for all Christians

4Play, what exactly is in that link. What is the article about as I can't access it on my computer at work, apparently it's been banned due to nudity? Oniranu boy. 

Michelin, I am watching. no worries 

As you can see uspry1 who I KNOW is a Christian that believes in the bible is no longer one in the eyes of Gamine because she doesnt agree with the passage that was posted in regards to this tiopic. 

Rofl. How can you expect to argue with people like this?


AJ, come and take me away jare

D-reloaded:

4Play, what exactly is in that link. What is the article about as I can't access it on my computer at work, apparently it's been banned due to nudity? Oniranu boy.

Michelin, I am watching. no worries

As you can see uspry1 who I KNOW is a Christian that believes in the bible is no longer one in the eyes of Gamine because she doesnt agree with the passage that was posted in regards to this tiopic.

Rofl. How can you expect to argue with people like this?


AJ, come and take me away jare

Don't leave me here!