Logicboy03:


He is a madman because he doesnt believe your religious nonsense?


You better check your own life before you start hating on Elton John, Yahoo boy!

This is not about religion,this is about nature...mumu!!!!.....

If elton john wants kids let him marry a woman just like you logic boy would do and procreate...

Elton john is a mumu old mad man as far as I'm concerned..........


You think evÉrything is about religiÓn??......

Would you have se-x with a man??...

I'm asking you....

Mr_Anony:
Lol, let me put things in perspective for you a bit.... Scenario: A 40 year old man has sex with a 14 year old girl who prior to that instance was already very sexually active.

Please give cogent non-religious reasons why and how one of the parties in this arrangement is harmed.

If no one was harmed, how is this comparable to pedophilia?

I have to get to work anony, we'll continue this later brah

Logicboy03:

Then why are you calling people you dont know homosexuals? Is that what islam teaches you?

Just because someone supports gay rights, it doesnt mean that the person is gay.


SMH

I didn't say that they are gay, I said that I think they are.
Wow.
You need to learn how to read.

wiegraf:

There are also the many examples of homosexuality in nature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

Seriously?
That's your proof that it is normal?
Animals do it and so if humans do it then it must be normal?
Animals do a lot of things wiegraf. Are you saying that regardless of which of these things people do their actions should be considered normal because animals also do the same thing?

There's a lot of other things done in nature that we might consider picking up since they are 'natural', for instance we could consider infanticide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide_%28zoology%29

I got this from your link

This behavior not only reduces intraspecific competition between the incumbent's offspring and those of other males and increases the parental investment afforded to their own young, but also allows females to become sexually receptive sooner. This is because females of this species, as well as many other mammals, do not ovulate during the period in which they lactate. It then becomes easier to see how this behavior could have evolved. If a male kills a female's young, she stops lactating and is able to become pregnant again. As males are in a constant struggle to protect their group, those that express infanticidal behavior will contribute a larger portion to future gene pools

Infanticide DOES tend to favor the procreation and longevity of species. And no, we humans are not supposed to do it because it happens in nature. The behaviour patterns that favour the said procreation and longevity of species vary from organism to organism, but in the end, regardless of what behaviours are displayed, the intention is for existence to continue.

But I think more troublesome as far as rights are concerned, are you implying that everyone must procreate just because you say so?

Not at all.
Just saying that we should stop lying to ourselves and pretending that we don't know that homosexuality is abnormal.

wiegraf:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians
There may be no smoking gun, but there are notable differences, especially in brain physiology. Regardless, choice or no, it is condescending silly holier than thou crap brah, with sometimes insidious consequences (but we can ignore those, for now).

There are also biological differences between the brains of schizophrenics and mentally healthy people.
Does that make schizophrenics normal?

fellis:


Seriously?
That's your proof that it is normal?
Animals do it and so if humans do it then it must be normal?
Animals do a lot of things wiegraf. Are you saying that regardless of which of these things people do their actions should be considered normal because animals also do the same thing?



I got this from your link

This behavior not only reduces intraspecific competition between the incumbent's offspring and those of other males and increases the parental investment afforded to their own young, but also allows females to become sexually receptive sooner. This is because females of this species, as well as many other mammals, do not ovulate during the period in which they lactate. It then becomes easier to see how this behavior could have evolved. If a male kills a female's young, she stops lactating and is able to become pregnant again. As males are in a constant struggle to protect their group, those that express infanticidal behavior will contribute a larger portion to future gene pools

Infanticide DOES tend to favor the procreation and longevity of species. And no, we humans are not supposed to do it because it happens in nature. The behaviour patterns that favour the said procreation and longevity of species vary from organism to organism, but in the end, regardless of what behaviours are displayed, the intention is for existence to continue.




Not at all.
Just saying that we should stop lying to ourselves and pretending that we don't know that homosexuality is abnormal.

I'll deal with you tomorrow. Don't have the time now. Needless to say though that's some rather poor reasoning. Later

wiegraf:

If no one was harmed, how is this comparable to pedophilia?

I have to get to work anony, we'll continue this later brah

Oh well, if sexual intercourse between a 40 year old and a 14 year old is not peadophilia to you, then we really don't have much of an argument.

Anyway, yeah we can continue later, maybe over the weekend when I'm free (unless I can make out time to procrastinate sooner. lol)

wiegraf:

Bolded, sins? Really? Just like how it was more or else a sin to be black to mormons? And the rest of the world is supposed to take you seriously because? Are you of the opinion muslims should condescend/pray for you because you're a kaffir? You might be looking forward to that but I'd rather they kept me out of their thoughts, thank you very much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation#Biological_differences_in_gay_men_and_lesbians
There may be no smoking gun, but there are notable differences, especially in brain physiology. Regardless, choice or no, it is condescending silly holier than thou crap brah, with sometimes insidious consequences (but we can ignore those, for now). You can pray for them all you want, it's a free world. Or you think I haven't noticed? I will pray to Pikkiwokki to cure you from your xtianity as well. That's how it works, no?

Of course I know your opinion of the word "sins" but that doesn't make it any less a sin.

Now on your case of brain physiology, I think fellis answered you appropriately. However I hope you do realize that if you use your brain a certain way over time, it takes on a certain form.
I am glad that you do realize that there is no proof that anyone is born homosexual as opposed to it being a learned behavior. I would have respected your link if you had somehow shown that the sexual preferences of day old babies could be accurately predicted using these brain scans.
Anyway let's leave it at this for now until the next time we chat.

By the way don't forget to say your prayers to pikkiwoki or whatever it is that you worship.

fellis:

There are also biological differences between the brains of schizophrenics and mentally healthy people.
Does that make schizophrenics normal?

good answer.

Well they should send them to the Sun, hell no i suppose Mercury lol.. Hell but Lesbians are hot lol.. double standard haha

fellis:


I didn't say that they are gay, I said that I think they are.
Wow.
You need to learn how to read.

How does that even improve your position? It shows that you cant think properly.

Foolish bigot

ijawkid:

This is not about religion,this is about nature...mumu!!!!.....

If elton john wants kids let him marry a woman just like you logic boy would do and procreate...

Elton john is a mumu old mad man as far as I'm concerned..........


You think evÉrything is about religiÓn??......

Would you have se-x with a man??...

I'm asking you....

Why would I have sex with another man? Did your tithe pastor tell you that fake revelation?


I am not gay. What gay people do is their business and we should leave them alone.


Why are you so concerned with Elton Johns life? This is a symptom of fundamentalism.

Whatsoever be the case, i stil think that these people should be prayed 4(gay/lesbien). Simple!

Mr_Anony:
Why are the contents of my prayers such an issue for you? Is it any of your business who and what I pray for?

Lol, secondly you seem to somehow think that homosexuality is a natural way of being. You are equating it with being born black fro instance. Well my friend, to legitimately make that comparison, you must show that homosexuals are born that way. I hold that homosexuality is a sin. It is the action and the lust.

seriously i dnt knw why most pple are pissed out abt the praying part! Mr. Am praying with u too.

fellis:


Seriously?
That's your proof that it is normal?
Animals do it and so if humans do it then it must be normal?

Yes it is.

You are the one claiming that we are biologically hard wired in one way thus using those organs in any other way is not natural. I give a link which shows homosexuality is indeed natural in the animal kingdom, it's practiced by many species, then suddenly biology is not accepted as evidence? So what is normal, what fellis decides?

They don't do it just for fun you know? Read up on bonobos and how they use sex to negotiate, bond, etc. Read up on elephants and dolphins as well. But even if they did, these are animals, they have no reasoning abilities per se. They aren't going around thinking "maybe I should be gay today", they are for the most part purely instinctive beings. They cannot make a conscious choice to be gay, yet they are. So this does not qualify as natural?

Homosexuality is abundant in nature, that makes it normal in nature

fellis:
Animals do a lot of things wiegraf. Are you saying that regardless of which of these things people do their actions should be considered normal because animals also do the same thing?
I got this from your link

This behavior not only reduces intraspecific competition between the incumbent's offspring and those of other males and increases the parental investment afforded to their own young, but also allows females to become sexually receptive sooner. This is because females of this species, as well as many other mammals, do not ovulate during the period in which they lactate. It then becomes easier to see how this behavior could have evolved. If a male kills a female's young, she stops lactating and is able to become pregnant again. As males are in a constant struggle to protect their group, those that express infanticidal behavior will contribute a larger portion to future gene pools

Infanticide DOES tend to favor the procreation and longevity of species. And no, we humans are not supposed to do it because it happens in nature. The behaviour patterns that favour the said procreation and longevity of species vary from organism to organism, but in the end, regardless of what behaviours are displayed, the intention is for existence to continue.

The bold, why do you think I'd say that then post this link? You are the one saying homosexuality is not biologically natural, therefore it must be bad, not me. I'm showing you that biologically natural isn't always desirable, so basing your argument on nature is a rather obvious double edged sword.

Straw men a plenty? How do you come to your conclusions from reading that? How do you know they won't be just fine without infanticide? In fact, it's very likely they'd be just fine, as tones of other species, like us (for the most part) are doing fine without it.

From what I can see there it's just the alpha male being selfish and insisting on having his own kids. If one shows up, kill your husband, kill your kids, then has kids with you, I fail to see where the net gain is there. There could always be adoption for instance. Or your husband need not have been killed in the first place, etc


Again, you say we shouldn't blindly follow nature, fine. Then you base your argument against homosexuality on it not being natural. Pick one, do we or do we not follow nature? You say we should cherry pick. If we do, what makes you fellis the arbiter of what's let in and what's not (you seem to think you are). Gay people can help with the problem of orphans for instance. We also frankly need to check our population growth. Yet somehow you think you know what's natural for our species.

fellis:
Not at all.
Just saying that we should stop lying to ourselves and pretending that we don't know that homosexuality is abnormal.

It is not. That is your opinion. It happens elsewhere in the animal kingdom, with or without your approval. It is natural

Logicboy03:


Why would I have sex with another man? Did your tithe pastor tell you that fake revelation?


I am not gay. What gay people do is their business and we should leave them alone.


Why are you so concerned with Elton Johns life? This is a symptom of fundamentalism.

I know its not my business what people do in privacy or in there bedrooms,but that wouldn't stop me from saying the truth.....

And that truth is what you've been ruNning away from....atheism has made it so hard for you to open your mouth to condemn the act of homosexuality.......

Now I would ask you again:::::...

Why won't you wanna try having sex with another man??is it disgusting ??after all its normal and nÀtural acÇording to you and your Çohorts_______

Oh I forgot...maybe you weren't born that way......rubbish!!!!.....

Logicboy condemn the ""act"" ............

That's all I want from you..........

Deep down you know gays are disgusting,the practice is also disgusting but because you would do anything to rubbish religion and the scriptures you would rather be on the side of gays.....

Nobody is planning to kill or persecute them,we are just spewing the truth about the ""act""......

fellis:

There are also biological differences between the brains of schizophrenics and mentally healthy people.
Does that make schizophrenics normal?

There are biological differences between a red head's hair and that of the general population, does that make redheads abnormal.

You're also using a cheap trick similar to what anony used. Schizophrenic people are often disabled, it's a debilitating condition if left unchecked. No such thing with having teh gay, except maybe dealing with bigots.

Mr_Anony:
Oh well, if sexual intercourse between a 40 year old and a 14 year old is not peadophilia to you, then we really don't have much of an argument.

Anyway, yeah we can continue later, maybe over the weekend when I'm free (unless I can make out time to procrastinate sooner. lol)

Age of consent in much of the world is ~14. But this case, even if legal, has to be taken in the context of the guy's age, he would obviously classify as a predator. You go out of your way to stress they both consent, and I'm assuming her earlier sexual experience were with peers, not predators. In which case I'm obviously looking at her parents/guardians. You've deliberately presented a case that is not clear cut. Use prebuscent teen versus old man, sexual experience or not, consent or not, then I can give you a straight answer; she's simply far too young to know what she's doing, and the repercussions to both her physical and mental health could be disastrous.

But yes, this case is still disturbing obviously because of the 40 year old dude. If with her peer I would have to let them go, with a stern warning

We'll finish this later... I didn't even get to finish my work damit

I like how many keep mentioning Elton John: a man that has contributed more positively to humanity than the sum of their generations across centuries have managed. Yeah, what an evil man he must be.

And for the argument about how natural homosexuality is and whether we're born with it; if you claim no one is born homösèxual, you may as well accept no one is born hetérosèxual either because ultimately, we always have a choice to stray either way. The only thing we're "born with" are our physical traits. Our genetic and hormonal balance may leave us with a higher propensity or inclination towards certain behavioural patterns but we retain the mental capacity to make a conscious choice and therefore, you can't claim we're "born with" any behavioural pattern like our preferred séxuality. We choose it and live it subject to many factors that spurs the choice.

ijawkid:

I know its not my business what people do in privacy or in there bedrooms,but that wouldn't stop me from saying the truth.....

And that truth is what you've been ruNning away from....atheism has made it so hard for you to open your mouth to condemn the act of homosexuality.......

Now I would ask you again:::::...

[b]Why won't you wanna try having sex with another man??is it disgusting ??[/b]after all its normal and nÀtural acÇording to you and your Çohorts_______

Oh I forgot...maybe you weren't born that way......rubbish!!!!.....

Logicboy condemn the ""act"" ............

That's all I want from you..........

Deep down you know gays are disgusting,the practice is also disgusting but because you would do anything to rubbish religion and the scriptures you would rather be on the side of gays.....

Nobody is planning to kill or persecute them,we are just spewing the truth about the ""act""......

Maybe he doesn't want to have séx with homosèxùals because he's simply not sexually attracted to men. He may be attracted to lèsbians for example. That you're not gay doesn't mean you can't defend the rights of those who are. Why is the simple concept so difficult to reconcile for some rabid fanatics? It's like saying you must be black to defend the rights of black people. Goodness me!

Smartie gurl: seriously i dnt knw why most pple are pissed out abt the praying part! Mr. Am praying with u too.

My dear, the god of this world has blinded the eyes of many. Don't stop praying.

ijawkid:

I know its not my business what people do in privacy or in there bedrooms,but that wouldn't stop me from saying the truth.....

And that truth is what you've been ruNning away from....atheism has made it so hard for you to open your mouth to condemn the act of homosexuality.......

Now I would ask you again:::::...

Why won't you wanna try having sex with another man??is it disgusting ??after all its normal and nÀtural acÇording to you and your Çohorts_______

Oh I forgot...maybe you weren't born that way......rubbish!!!!.....

Logicboy condemn the ""act"" ............

That's all I want from you..........

Deep down you know gays are disgusting,the practice is also disgusting but because you would do anything to rubbish religion and the scriptures you would rather be on the side of gays.....

Nobody is planning to kill or persecute them,we are just spewing the truth about the ""act""......

You are talking nonsense

Mr_Anony:
My dear, the god of this world has blinded the eyes of many. Don't stop praying.

A rational person would realise that prayer is usually ineffectove.

Logicboy03:

A rational person would realise that prayer is usually ineffectove.

And you know this 'cos yo rational?

wiegraf:


They don't do it just for fun you know? Read up on bonobos and how they use sex to negotiate, bond, etc. Read up on elephants and dolphins as well. But even if they did, these are animals, they have no reasoning abilities per se. They aren't going around thinking "maybe I should be gay today", they are for the most part purely instinctive beings. They cannot make a conscious choice to be gay, yet they are. So this does not qualify as natural?

Homosexuality is abundant in nature, that makes it normal in nature

Lol, abundant in nature? Some animals engage in homosexual acts but that doesn't make it abundant.

Again, I got this from your link:

A new review made in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species. Homosexual behavior is best known from social species. According to geneticist Simon Levay in 1996, "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity


Also, mental problems can be found in animals, so their engaging in homosexual behaviour could be a sign of a mental illness.

The bold, why do you think I'd say that then post this link? You are the one saying homosexuality is not biologically natural, therefore it must be bad, not me. I'm showing you that biologically natural isn't always desirable, so basing your argument on nature is a rather obvious double edged sword.

This is the definition of natural:


nat·u·ral [náchərəl, náchrəl]
adjective

1. conforming with nature: in accordance with the usual course of nature


Now what is the normal course of nature?
It is for organisms or species to develop and improve traits that ensure that they do not die off or go extinct. That is why the carnivores have canines, that is why the hover-fly has mimicry, that is why chameleons and geckos change their colors and that is why male and female sëx organs which aid reproduction, were developed. Since the beginning of life, living things have consistently developed traits that aid their survival, not their extinction.
When I used the word 'natural' I am not talking about every single thing that goes on in the animal kingdom, I am referring to the aspects of nature that follow the course which nature has set for living things and that course is for these living things to CONTINUE to exist, not for them to die off.
Only heterosexuality is normal, homosexuality isn't. What purpose does homosexuality serve? What is to be gained form it?
Gay men usually end up with anal incontinence after some time due to the gaysex they have.
Anal incontinence.
Because the human anus is not adapted for sëx, unlike the vägina that is very elastic and can retain it's prior shape after sëx and even after childbirth.

wiegraf:

There are biological differences between a red head's hair and that of the general population, does that make redheads abnormal.

You're also using a cheap trick similar to what anony used. Schizophrenic people are often disabled, it's a debilitating condition if left unchecked. No such thing with having teh gay, except maybe dealing with bigots.

Nobody is using any trick here. Everything wrong with gays. How can a person want to carry out an action that causes them irrepairable bodily harm and still think that they are normal?

How do you come to your conclusions from reading that? How do you know they won't be just fine without infanticide? In fact, it's very likely they'd be just fine, as tones of other species, like us (for the most part) are doing fine without it.

What do you mean by it's very likely?
What makes it VERY likely?
Other species have their own adaptive behaviours that are different from the mammals in the Wiki link. Those mammals in my link carry out infanticide because that is the adaptive behaviour that suits their species, not these other species that you speak of.

From what I can see there it's just the alpha male being selfish and insisting on having his own kids. If one shows up, kill your husband, kill your kids, then has kids with you, I fail to see where the net gain is there. There could always be adoption for instance. Or your husband need not have been killed in the first place, etc

Your reasoning capacity/abilities are different from those of animals.
You do not understand how animals think so stop trying to see thing from their point of view.

Again, you say we shouldn't blindly follow nature, fine. Then you base your argument against homosexuality on it not being natural. Pick one, do we or do we not follow nature? You say we should cherry pick. If we do, what makes you fellis the arbiter of what's let in and what's not (you seem to think you are). Gay people can help with the problem of orphans for instance. We also frankly need to check our population growth. Yet somehow you think you know what's natural for our species.

Natural= following course of nature = developing traits that ensure survival = reproduction and multiplication ≠ homosexuality ≠ traits that lead to a destroyed anus.

Can someone give me a reasonable answer to this question. Why do you think a MAN and a WOMAN were created in the first place?

Logicboy03:
A hebephile is still a pedophile. Most pedophiles actually molest teenagers rather than infants

No, pe*ophiles go to the people who have not reached puberty.
Hebefiles go to kids who are in their early teens. Google it.

For a hebefile, a 4year old is not attractive, and for a p-phile, a 12year old is not. There is a difference. They are still kids, yes, but there is a difference.

Obi1kenobi:

Maybe he doesn't want to have séx with homosèxùals because he's simply not sexually attracted to men. He may be attracted to lèsbians for example. That you're not gay doesn't mean you can't defend the rights of those who are. Why is the simple concept so difficult to reconcile for some rabid fanatics? It's like saying you must be black to defend the rights of black people. Goodness me!

I was going to answer him, but then you did it even better then I could have done. Thank you.

Ihedinobi:

And you know this 'cos yo rational?

Brain enema with another foolish question again

Jallowbalde:

No, pe*ophiles go to the people who have not reached puberty.
Hebefiles go to kids who are in their early teens. Google it.

For a hebefile, a 4year old is not attractive, and for a p-phile, a 12year old is not. There is a difference. They are still kids, yes, but there is a difference.

Wrong, simple google will tell you that you are wrong.

In law enforcement circles, the term "pedophile" is sometimes used in a broad manner to encompass a person who commits one or more sexually-based crimes that relate to legally underage victims

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#In_law_and_forensic_psychology


A pedophile is a hebefile and the fact remains that majority of pedophiles go for teenagers rather than infants

Obi1kenobi:

Maybe he doesn't want to have séx with homosèxùals because he's simply not sexually attracted to men. He may be attracted to lèsbians for example. That you're not gay doesn't mean you can't defend the rights of those who are. Why is the simple concept so difficult to reconcile for some rabid fanatics? It's like saying you must be black to defend the rights of black people. Goodness me!

Are lesbians men??.....

You have chosen to ignore the fact that logicboy won't be attracted to men because that is natures call.....

Mind you I aint saying the rights of gays should not be defended...I'm not in support of persons who would act violently towards gays or want to kill them.....NO....

,I'm just all out to condemn the ""act""......its totally against nature...and persons who continue to engage in this act have stubbornly chosen to do so.......

Elton John married a man(obstinate fool) and now wants kids.......what do you call that??.....

Is that sanity or insanity??....

Please tell me.......

Where and how does he think babies are produced...??

ijawkid:

Are lesbians men??.....

You have chosen to ignore the fact that logicboy won't be attracted to men because that is natures call.....

Mind you I aint saying the rights of gays should not be defended...I'm not in support of persons who would act violently towards gays or want to kill them.....NO....

,I'm just all out to condemn the ""act""......its totally against nature...and persons who continue to engage in this act have stubbornly chosen to do so.......

Elton John married a man(obstinate fool) and now wants kids.......what do you call that??.....

Is that sanity or insanity??....

Please tell me.......

Where and how does he think babies are produced...??

If you are arguing from the point of having children, I hope you know that there are heterosexual couples that are barren. They too have to adopt.


Sorry, your religious position can not be reconciled with logic

ijawkid:

I know its not my business what people do in privacy or in there bedrooms,but that wouldn't stop me from saying the truth.....

And that truth is what you've been ruNning away from....atheism has made it so hard for you to open your mouth to condemn the act of homosexuality.......

Now I would ask you again:::::...

Why won't you wanna try having sex with another man??is it disgusting ??after all its normal and nÀtural acÇording to you and your Çohorts_______

Oh I forgot...maybe you weren't born that way......rubbish!!!!.....

Logicboy condemn the ""act"" ............

That's all I want from you..........

Deep down you know gays are disgusting,the practice is also disgusting but because you would do anything to rubbish religion and the scriptures you would rather be on the side of gays.....

Nobody is planning to kill or persecute them,we are just spewing the truth about the ""act""......

Why should someone condemn others just because they find what they do disgusting? I find the taste of coconut disgusting, but I don't run around condemning the act of eating coconut! As long as what they do is with consenting adults, who cares? Why should I care if someone performs oral pleasure on his wife, even if I found it disgusting?