| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by yyb14: 11:40am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Yaradua is better |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 11:41am On Dec 31, 2012 |
yaradua dealt with an emerging Boko Haram,GEJ let the ones in prison out and he put the police officers that arrested them or killed in in Jail....who is the better leader?so Boko Haram repaid GEJ by killings,bombing,killings. 1 Like |
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| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Mojibola(m): 11:41am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Both are devils...buh Yaradua is d lesser devil. |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 11:43am On Dec 31, 2012 |
when everyone was shouting at Yaradua for dealing with BH,nairalanders were saying human rights...now does BH give two fckxs about ur human rights?ask dead policemen,dead soilders,dead drivers,dead people..the dead have no human right 1 Like |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by sKy007: 11:44am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sentimental , illogical Nigerians. So far I ve not seen any Yar'adua point to make him better , just some ACN sponsored one line comments from one person with numerous IDs
GEJ all the way. 1 Like |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by olubode01(m): 11:46am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Yar'adua,despite his ailing health proved more to be a leader than our clueless and puppet-like jonathan. Though,both of den are product of academics,jonathan really disappointed Nigerians that gave him sympathy votes. No wonder,he could not hold a brief for his late boss even wen yar'adua was in power because,his boss never believed in his competency. Moreover,wen presy Jonathan was campaigning,he never had a concrete manifesto. So,we shud nt give room for comparism. I want to believe dt,as a good leader,you must avoid wot made your predecessor fell and consolidating on his achievements. But,reverse is d case for our transformation agenda president. Oh! I weep for my Dear country,Nigeria. GOD BLESS NIGERIA |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 11:48am On Dec 31, 2012 |
yaradua gave us fuel for 60 naira instead of 65,Gej gave us for 100 naira and it still aint enuf...plus the fact that his police killed people for that fact,any frigging contest?i do not think so 1 Like |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by alaoeri: 11:50am On Dec 31, 2012 |
onatisi:
yar adua handled boko haram issue well . Including amnesty program unlike confuse GEJ who doesn't know what to do, Yar'adua also create ministry of niger/delta, dredging of river niger wc stop due to his absence, reduces price of PMS from #65 to #60 inshort he's better than GEJ death just cut things short. 4 Likes |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by pekelepekele(m): 11:52am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sincere 9gerian:
My friend, you dont have to tell us you'r from Niger delta or wherever. It is immaterial, even if you'r from Ghana. And for the fact that you did that, it makes your submission very suspicious. How can we confirm you'r from the Niger delta even if we want to go that route? You'r not a prophet that we can believe whatever you'v stated here as the truth.
Initially I didn't want to engage in this childish comparison but I changed my mind to avoid some mischief makers and depraved minds misleading children on this forum. If we sincerely want to compare two different govt, we should do that using parameters to measure the performance. It is not enough for political jobbers and depraved minds to say GEJ is better or Yar Adua is better. Lets take the parameters that matter one after the other
1) Elections: were our elections better organised during Yar Adua or GEJ. The Ekiti re-run election done under Yar Adua was a disaster. Every right thinking person will agree that elections under GEJ are better
2) Security: for me it worsened under GEJ SOLELY because of boko haram. But Yar Adua started boko haram when under his regime, the leader of boko haram was extra-judicially killed. During the Yar Adua period, there was also rampant kidnapping and all sorts of atrocities we see now
3) Power supply: Yar Adua stopped all the power projects started by OBJ. The construction of those power infrastructure only began again when GEJ came to power. Power supply is definitely better under GEJ
4) Aviation: our airports infrastructure and other aspect of aviation have definitely faired better under GEJ
5) Education: it should be remembered that it was under Yar Adua, when Sam Egwu was education minister, that our universities were shut for several months. Definitely, without iota of doubt, education is better under GEJ
5) Corruption: it was under Yar Adua that the EFCC and its leadership then, Ribadu, was completely dismantled. In the exact words of Ribadu "corruption took over the EFCC in 2007". The GEJ govt has re-focused the EFCC to a much better institution now. There is lot of exposure of corruption under GEJ- subsidy thieves, pension thieves,etc. I rate the incumbent slightly better in this regard
5) rail transport: definitely better under GEJ
6) road construction: i cant recall any major road re-construction or rehabilitation that took place under Yar Adua. It was under Yar Adua that Dieziani, as then minister of works, wept at the Benin-Ore road but still nothing was done on that road. I rate GEJ far far better
7) press freedom: media houses were hounded and sometimes closed under Yar Adua. I recall vividly that Gbenja Arulegba, the presenter of Focus Nigeria on AIT was forced out of the screen by the Yar Adua foot solders. The press is far far freer under GEJ
POINT 8: job creation: can anyone remind us of any direct job creation programmes under Yar Adua? I cant recall any. Under GEJ we had YOUWIN programme to empower 1,200 entrepreneurs annually, the women and youth empowerment scheme meant to employ 370,000 persons annually,etc I rate GEJ better See your mouth GEJ fan . You called that GEJ a human being? Someone that increased the fuel price January 1st without considering it a bad start for Nigerians in the New year and those that had traveled during the Yuletide . Someone that keep giving us fake hopes and promises . Jobs , good health care and others . If he wants to be better than Yar'adua let him reverse the fuel price increment because so far nothing has change in this country . He is just a RIPPER .
If yar'adua had not died . He would have done something far better than GEJ . Period 3 Likes |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by onatisi(m): 11:53am On Dec 31, 2012 |
infact there is no comparison , yar adua was meters,kilometers, miles in fact eve n kilomiles and mega miles far far far better than gej,and he was firm , he handled the Niger delta issue well by giving them amnesty which reduced their activities and nearly wipe out boko haram , all gej keeps saying is "we are on top of the situation " |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by hagma37yahoocom: 11:55am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sincere 9gerian:
My friend, you dont have to tell us you'r from Niger delta or wherever. It is immaterial, even if you'r from Ghana. And for the fact that you did that, it makes your submission very suspicious. How can we confirm you'r from the Niger delta even if we want to go that route? You'r not a prophet that we can believe whatever you'v stated here as the truth.
Initially I didn't want to engage in this childish comparison but I changed my mind to avoid some mischief makers and depraved minds misleading children on this forum. If we sincerely want to compare two different govt, we should do that using parameters to measure the performance. It is not enough for political jobbers and depraved minds to say GEJ is better or Yar Adua is better. Lets take the parameters that matter one after the other
1) Elections: were our elections better organised during Yar Adua or GEJ. The Ekiti re-run election done under Yar Adua was a disaster. Every right thinking person will agree that elections under GEJ are better
2) Security: for me it worsened under GEJ SOLELY because of boko haram. But Yar Adua started boko haram when under his regime, the leader of boko haram was extra-judicially killed. During the Yar Adua period, there was also rampant kidnapping and all sorts of atrocities we see now
3) Power supply: Yar Adua stopped all the power projects started by OBJ. The construction of those power infrastructure only began again when GEJ came to power. Power supply is definitely better under GEJ
4) Aviation: our airports infrastructure and other aspect of aviation have definitely faired better under GEJ
5) Education: it should be remembered that it was under Yar Adua, when Sam Egwu was education minister, that our universities were shut for several months. Definitely, without iota of doubt, education is better under GEJ
5) Corruption: it was under Yar Adua that the EFCC and its leadership then, Ribadu, was completely dismantled. In the exact words of Ribadu "corruption took over the EFCC in 2007". The GEJ govt has re-focused the EFCC to a much better institution now. There is lot of exposure of corruption under GEJ- subsidy thieves, pension thieves,etc. I rate the incumbent slightly better in this regard
5) rail transport: definitely better under GEJ
6) road construction: i cant recall any major road re-construction or rehabilitation that took place under Yar Adua. It was under Yar Adua that Dieziani, as then minister of works, wept at the Benin-Ore road but still nothing was done on that road. I rate GEJ far far better
7) press freedom: media houses were hounded and sometimes closed under Yar Adua. I recall vividly that Gbenja Arulegba, the presenter of Focus Nigeria on AIT was forced out of the screen by the Yar Adua foot solders. The press is far far freer under GEJ
POINT 8: job creation: can anyone remind us of any direct job creation programmes under Yar Adua? I cant recall any. Under GEJ we had YOUWIN programme to empower 1,200 entrepreneurs annually, the women and youth empowerment scheme meant to employ 370,000 persons annually,etc I rate GEJ better To God be the glory! My friend you dont have a single reasonable point. 9 Likes |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by onatisi(m): 11:56am On Dec 31, 2012 |
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| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 11:57am On Dec 31, 2012 |
Crying shame;the militants benefitting from the amnesty programme i.e guns for money and education always long for Yaradua,saying he did far more than any other president for them
I can recall the hatefull and heartless comments about Yaradua on his deathbed by Nairalanders..Nairalanders were heartless, soulless,without pity...
you all got what you deserved...(wicked people),you are getting what you deserved,Karma is a byatch,she screws u up in all ways from sunday. |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by mazinaija: 11:59am On Dec 31, 2012 |
I luv GEJ because of the attitude of northerners, but I will give it to Yar'Adua. He is a better Leader |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:00pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
yaradua |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by polokor60(m): 12:06pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
onatisi: infact there is no comparison , yar adua was meters,kilometers, miles in fact eve n kilomiles and mega miles far far far better than gej,and he was firm , he handled the Niger delta issue well by giving them amnesty which reduced their activities and nearly wipe out boko haram , all gej keeps saying is "we are on top of the situation " Point of correction,yar adua was more than a thousand light years ahead of gej. 2 Likes |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by bjdon: 12:06pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Indeed I've seen it all now. How can any sane person rate Yaradua. His govt was a total joke with no direction whatsoever. Every positive policy from OBJ like power sector development, EFCC. Everything!! To be honest both of them were crap and not worth to be the President of the Africa's foremost nation |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:07pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
bjdon: Indeed I've seen it all now. How can any sane person rate Yaradua. His govt was a total joke with no direction whatsoever. Every positive policy from OBJ like power sector development, EFCC. Everything!! To be honest both of them were crap and not worth to be the President of the Africa's foremost nation console urself |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:11pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sincere 9gerian:
My friend, you dont have to tell us you'r from Niger delta or wherever. It is immaterial, even if you'r from Ghana. And for the fact that you did that, it makes your submission very suspicious. How can we confirm you'r from the Niger delta even if we want to go that route? You'r not a prophet that we can believe whatever you'v stated here as the truth.
Initially I didn't want to engage in this childish comparison but I changed my mind to avoid some mischief makers and depraved minds misleading children on this forum. If we sincerely want to compare two different govt, we should do that using parameters to measure the performance. It is not enough for political jobbers and depraved minds to say GEJ is better or Yar Adua is better. Lets take the parameters that matter one after the other
1) Elections: were our elections better organised during Yar Adua or GEJ. The Ekiti re-run election done under Yar Adua was a disaster. Every right thinking person will agree that elections under GEJ are better
2) Security: for me it worsened under GEJ SOLELY because of boko haram. But Yar Adua started boko haram when under his regime, the leader of boko haram was extra-judicially killed. During the Yar Adua period, there was also rampant kidnapping and all sorts of atrocities we see now
3) Power supply: Yar Adua stopped all the power projects started by OBJ. The construction of those power infrastructure only began again when GEJ came to power. Power supply is definitely better under GEJ
4) Aviation: our airports infrastructure and other aspect of aviation have definitely faired better under GEJ
5) Education: it should be remembered that it was under Yar Adua, when Sam Egwu was education minister, that our universities were shut for several months. Definitely, without iota of doubt, education is better under GEJ
5) Corruption: it was under Yar Adua that the EFCC and its leadership then, Ribadu, was completely dismantled. In the exact words of Ribadu "corruption took over the EFCC in 2007". The GEJ govt has re-focused the EFCC to a much better institution now. There is lot of exposure of corruption under GEJ- subsidy thieves, pension thieves,etc. I rate the incumbent slightly better in this regard
5) rail transport: definitely better under GEJ
6) road construction: i cant recall any major road re-construction or rehabilitation that took place under Yar Adua. It was under Yar Adua that Dieziani, as then minister of works, wept at the Benin-Ore road but still nothing was done on that road. I rate GEJ far far better
7) press freedom: media houses were hounded and sometimes closed under Yar Adua. I recall vividly that Gbenja Arulegba, the presenter of Focus Nigeria on AIT was forced out of the screen by the Yar Adua foot solders. The press is far far freer under GEJ
POINT 8: job creation: can anyone remind us of any direct job creation programmes under Yar Adua? I cant recall any. Under GEJ we had YOUWIN programme to empower 1,200 entrepreneurs annually, the women and youth empowerment scheme meant to employ 370,000 persons annually,etc I rate GEJ better Once a creature comes to a public forum and writes something this long in defence of a government that is so inept, that creature has sold his soul, mortgaged the lives of his kids and will be ready to sell his mother for money. 8 Likes |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:16pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sunnystooth: if am not mistaken or just being simply sentimental, i think where the late President Yar'adua was in power,(RIP) we had less people complaining about him and critisizing him. He had direction, he led the country as someone that is not 'clueless' as the kind of president we have now... FYI, i am from the niger delta, i voted for GEJ, but watching him lead this country is just way too disturbing and its seems we have'nt made much progress... Well, thats just my opinion, what do u think? Is'nt the immediate former president more of a leader than what we have now? No sentiments plz. Yar Adua was better. Please add a poll. |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:17pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sincere 9gerian:
My friend, you dont have to tell us you'r from Niger delta or wherever. It is immaterial, even if you'r from Ghana. And for the fact that you did that, it makes your submission very suspicious. How can we confirm you'r from the Niger delta even if we want to go that route? You'r not a prophet that we can believe whatever you'v stated here as the truth.
Initially I didn't want to engage in this childish comparison but I changed my mind to avoid some mischief makers and depraved minds misleading children on this forum. If we sincerely want to compare two different govt, we should do that using parameters to measure the performance. It is not enough for political jobbers and depraved minds to say GEJ is better or Yar Adua is better. Lets take the parameters that matter one after the other
1) Elections: were our elections better organised during Yar Adua or GEJ. The Ekiti re-run election done under Yar Adua was a disaster. Every right thinking person will agree that elections under GEJ are better
2) Security: for me it worsened under GEJ SOLELY because of boko haram. But Yar Adua started boko haram when under his regime, the leader of boko haram was extra-judicially killed. During the Yar Adua period, there was also rampant kidnapping and all sorts of atrocities we see now
3) Power supply: Yar Adua stopped all the power projects started by OBJ. The construction of those power infrastructure only began again when GEJ came to power. Power supply is definitely better under GEJ
4) Aviation: our airports infrastructure and other aspect of aviation have definitely faired better under GEJ
5) Education: it should be remembered that it was under Yar Adua, when Sam Egwu was education minister, that our universities were shut for several months. Definitely, without iota of doubt, education is better under GEJ
5) Corruption: it was under Yar Adua that the EFCC and its leadership then, Ribadu, was completely dismantled. In the exact words of Ribadu "corruption took over the EFCC in 2007". The GEJ govt has re-focused the EFCC to a much better institution now. There is lot of exposure of corruption under GEJ- subsidy thieves, pension thieves,etc. I rate the incumbent slightly better in this regard
5) rail transport: definitely better under GEJ
6) road construction: i cant recall any major road re-construction or rehabilitation that took place under Yar Adua. It was under Yar Adua that Dieziani, as then minister of works, wept at the Benin-Ore road but still nothing was done on that road. I rate GEJ far far better
7) press freedom: media houses were hounded and sometimes closed under Yar Adua. I recall vividly that Gbenja Arulegba, the presenter of Focus Nigeria on AIT was forced out of the screen by the Yar Adua foot solders. The press is far far freer under GEJ
POINT 8: job creation: can anyone remind us of any direct job creation programmes under Yar Adua? I cant recall any. Under GEJ we had YOUWIN programme to empower 1,200 entrepreneurs annually, the women and youth empowerment scheme meant to employ 370,000 persons annually,etc I rate GEJ better . OMO!! This guy works for the Media/PR department of the Presidency.You deh earn your money sha.I respect your hustle. 3 Likes 
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| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by kioboy(m): 12:19pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Yar'adua hv never ruled dis country as a president dueto ill health and is very difficult to comapre becos aanndoka and his group ws incharge and run d country like a family business. It ws during yar'adua dat ibori single handedly bought wilbros nigeria limited at 550 million dallars. Infact all former governors standing trials for money laundering were given soft landing and most of their cases died a natural death till date. So to me then i never knew hw sick yar'adua ws until his death.
if u compare dat administration under yar'adua, i wil say dat GEJ is better. |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by superior1: 12:22pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
lagerwhenindoubt:
what exactly did he do to improve the political, financial and educational econmy of Nigeria.. forget Power, Security, Oil & Gas, Religious Conflicts etc
WHICH ONE OF HIS 7-POINT AGENDA DID HE ACHIEVE? He reverted PMS price from 65 to 60, just to mention 1 |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:23pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sincere 9gerian:
My friend, you dont have to tell us you'r from Niger delta or wherever. It is immaterial, even if you'r from Ghana. And for the fact that you did that, it makes your submission very suspicious. How can we confirm you'r from the Niger delta even if we want to go that route? You'r not a prophet that we can believe whatever you'v stated here as the truth.
Initially I didn't want to engage in this childish comparison but I changed my mind to avoid some mischief makers and depraved minds misleading children on this forum. If we sincerely want to compare two different govt, we should do that using parameters to measure the performance. It is not enough for political jobbers and depraved minds to say GEJ is better or Yar Adua is better. Lets take the parameters that matter one after the other
1) Elections: were our elections better organised during Yar Adua or GEJ. The Ekiti re-run election done under Yar Adua was a disaster. Every right thinking person will agree that elections under GEJ are better
2) Security: for me it worsened under GEJ SOLELY because of boko haram. But Yar Adua started boko haram when under his regime, the leader of boko haram was extra-judicially killed. During the Yar Adua period, there was also rampant kidnapping and all sorts of atrocities we see now
3) Power supply: Yar Adua stopped all the power projects started by OBJ. The construction of those power infrastructure only began again when GEJ came to power. Power supply is definitely better under GEJ
4) Aviation: our airports infrastructure and other aspect of aviation have definitely faired better under GEJ
5) Education: it should be remembered that it was under Yar Adua, when Sam Egwu was education minister, that our universities were shut for several months. Definitely, without iota of doubt, education is better under GEJ
5) Corruption: it was under Yar Adua that the EFCC and its leadership then, Ribadu, was completely dismantled. In the exact words of Ribadu "corruption took over the EFCC in 2007". The GEJ govt has re-focused the EFCC to a much better institution now. There is lot of exposure of corruption under GEJ- subsidy thieves, pension thieves,etc. I rate the incumbent slightly better in this regard
5) rail transport: definitely better under GEJ
6) road construction: i cant recall any major road re-construction or rehabilitation that took place under Yar Adua. It was under Yar Adua that Dieziani, as then minister of works, wept at the Benin-Ore road but still nothing was done on that road. I rate GEJ far far better
7) press freedom: media houses were hounded and sometimes closed under Yar Adua. I recall vividly that Gbenja Arulegba, the presenter of Focus Nigeria on AIT was forced out of the screen by the Yar Adua foot solders. The press is far far freer under GEJ
POINT 8: job creation: can anyone remind us of any direct job creation programmes under Yar Adua? I cant recall any. Under GEJ we had YOUWIN programme to empower 1,200 entrepreneurs annually, the women and youth empowerment scheme meant to employ 370,000 persons annually,etc I rate GEJ better thank GOD that there are SANE nigerians lyk u. 1day ppl wl tel us dat Abacha is d best thing dat has hapnd 2 us in ds con3(afterall buhari declared him corrupt free) Yar'adua dat took ds con3 40yrs behind wt his oligarchic band of brigands. If any Nigerian leader deserves d appendage 'clueless' it fits yar'adua best. GEJ's crime is dat he's a minority & had a meteoric ascendance to power dat has eluded a lot of ppl for a lifetime. |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by egift(m): 12:24pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Certainly Yar'Adua. He was in-charge, achieved something, was decisive in his decisions. I personally accused him for being slow. But I never said he was doing nothing.
As for Oga Jona, he is confused, people are stealing under his nose, he does trial by error. Can't even stand his ground and punish where necessary. Pension scam and subsidy scam have shown only two things - either he is directing the stealing, or other did it and he don't even have the guts to prosecute them. Don't forget he confirmed that Boko Haram are in his government, the have phone numbers of all the sponsors - yet innocent Nigerians are killed daily and none of the sponsors are facing firing squad.
Even Turia Yar'Adua was able the run things when the husband was down Oga Jonah (the Vice President) was preparing meal in the kitchen. Even unable to hold a mandatory FEC meeting. 1 Like |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by forkinsonlolo(m): 12:25pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
[size=29pt]yaradua[/size][color=#550000][/color] |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:26pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Both mediocre leaders. |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by omiobo: 12:26pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
I can't stop laughing seeing foolishness in display. They are both produced by PDP,controlled by the same party? Maybe by their facial look one can better than the other but politically they are both fuvckin the same. No difference! |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:29pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Is this not a BIG SHAME,comparing a HALF DEAD Yar Adua to a FULLY ALIVE Jonathan.
............and Yar Adua winning.CHAi!!!! 1 Like 
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| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:30pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Kamanda: Is this not a BIG SHAME,comparing a HALF DEAD Yar Adua to a FULLY ALIVE Jonathan.
............and Yar Adua winning.CHAi!!!! u think u are funny...funny thing is that...Death is knocking at ur door,but like a fool u dont even know it and am laughing at u..DYCKHEAD 1 Like |
| Re: Who Is Better At Leadership? GEJ Or Yar'adua. by Nobody: 12:35pm On Dec 31, 2012 |
Sincere 9gerian:
You call it short term memory. I call it DELIBERATE mischief by depraved minds polluted by ethnoreligous sentiments and HATE methinks Nigeria is fast becoming a pip-sty where ppl snort n grunt in d mud wtout looking up or beyond their nose. Ds is more dan a gang-up |
