Billyonaire: You are not interested in the thread and its title. The only thing you know about life is Logic, whether its relevant to the issue being addressed is none of your business. Something tells me you can tell your cook to prepare you rice and stew using 'Logic' as major ingredient.

lol. Okay sir, I'm done.

ositadima1:

Ok sir, but its clear that if we were to live in 2d world, like paper drawings, it would be impossible to logically explain a world in 3d.

Okay. I'm done.

Reyginus: Okay. I'm done.

Hahahaha, goodnight sir.

Kay 17: The spirit world is nothing more than a bad imitation of the physical with its laws. No one can think of an entity existing without space, its unimaginable. A spirit world lacks space and probably forms too.

For goodness sake go and READ about the subject-matter before making such cocksure pronouncements. Here you are talking about ''the spirit world'' and what it lacks and doesn't lack. How many experiencers' accounts of the 'spirit world' have you read, be it OBEs or NDES? How much research of the subject-matter have you read?

Start with www.near-death.com. You need to spend at least 2 to 3 hours there, READING AND LEARNING, before making any pronouncement on what the spirit world is like or is not like. You don't just type stuff off the top of your head.

The point is that science as it is today is still in it's infancy, and there somany unanswered questions. Like why Newtonian mechanics fail at speeds close to light speed. Or the concept that the passage of time varies based on ur frame of reference.

Just immagine the extent of deception going on in this last days.
Satan's scheme is to decieve many by feeding them with lies they've always desired and you all are busy feeding fat on it.
Let me tell you the truth, those astral treveling and NDE's are mostly inspired by demons, they are demonic in nature, they are from the origin of darkness.
The word of the lord cannot be broken, it stands sure forever.
Choose ye this day who to believe, the word of God or the deceptive theories of satan!

I only ask for a world where I can see humans' thoughts. That should be about a 1000000D world, right.

Here is something I happened to bump into,and it convinces me the 4D is actually time since it can't be faked the way obe was in this research.
They are eerie sensations, more common than one might think: A man describes feeling a shadowy figure standing behind him, then turning around to find no one there. A woman feels herself leaving her body and floating in space, looking down on her corporeal self.

Such experiences are often attributed by those who have them to paranormal forces.

But according to recent work by neuroscientists, they can be induced by delivering mild electric current to specific spots in the brain. In one woman, for example, a zap to a brain region called the angular gyrus resulted in a sensation that she was hanging from the ceiling, looking down at her body. In another woman, electrical current delivered to the angular gyrus produced an uncanny feeling that someone was behind her, intent on interfering with her actions.

The two women were being evaluated for epilepsy surgery at University Hospital in Geneva, where doctors implanted dozens of electrodes into their brains to pinpoint the abnormal tissue causing the seizures and to identify adjacent areas involved in language, hearing or other essential functions that should be avoided in the surgery. As each electrode was activated, stimulating a different patch of brain tissue, the patient was asked to say what she was experiencing.

Dr. Olaf Blanke, a neurologist at the École Polytechnique Fédérale de Lausanne in Switzerland who carried out the procedures, said that the women had normal psychiatric histories and that they were stunned by the bizarre nature of their experiences.

The Sept. 21 issue of Nature magazine includes an account by Dr. Blanke and his colleagues of the woman who sensed a shadow person behind her. They described the out-of-body experiences in the February 2004 issue of the journal Brain.

There is nothing mystical about these ghostly experiences, said Peter Brugger, a neuroscientist at University Hospital in Zurich, who was not involved in the experiments but is an expert on phantom limbs, the sensation of still feeling a limb that has been amputated, and other mind-bending phenomena.

“The research shows that the self can be detached from the body and can live a phantom existence on its own, as in an out-of-body experience, or it can be felt outside of personal space, as in a sense of a presence,” Dr. Brugger said.

Scientists have gained new understanding of these odd bodily sensations as they have learned more about how the brain works, Dr. Blanke said. For example, researchers have discovered that some areas of the brain combine information from several senses. Vision, hearing and touch are initially processed in the primary sensory regions. But then they flow together, like tributaries into a river, to create the wholeness of a person’s perceptions. A dog is visually recognized far more quickly if it is simultaneously accompanied by the sound of its bark.

These multisensory processing regions also build up perceptions of the body as it moves through the world, Dr. Blanke said. Sensors in the skin provide information about pressure, pain, heat, cold and similar sensations. Sensors in the joints, tendons and bones tell the brain where the body is positioned in space. Sensors in the ears track the sense of balance. And sensors in the internal organs, including the heart, liver and intestines, provide a readout of a person’s emotional state.

Real-time information from the body, the space around the body and the subjective feelings from the body are also represented in multisensory regions, Dr. Blanke said. And if these regions are directly simulated by an electric current, as in the cases of the two women he studied, the integrity of the sense of body can be altered.

As an example, Dr. Blanke described the case of a 22-year-old student who had electrodes implanted into the left side of her brain in 2004.

“We were checking language areas,” Dr. Blanke said, when the woman turned her head to the right. That made no sense, he said, because the electrode was nowhere near areas involved in the control of movement. Instead, the current was stimulating a multisensory area called the angular gyrus.

Dr. Blanke applied the current again. Again, the woman turned her head to the right. “Why are you doing this?” he asked.

The woman replied that she had a weird sensation that another person was lying beneath her on the bed. The figure, she said, felt like a “shadow” that did not speak or move; it was young, more like a man than a woman, and it wanted to interfere with her.

When Dr. Blanke turned off the current, the woman stopped looking to the right, and said the strange presence had gone away. Each time he reapplied the current, she once again turned her head to try to see the shadow figure.

When the woman sat up, leaned forward and hugged her knees, she said that she felt as if the shadow man was also sitting and that he was clasping her in his arms. She said it felt unpleasant. When she held a card in her right hand, she reported that the shadow figure tried to take it from her. “He doesn’t want me to read,” she said.

Because the presence closely mimicked the patient’s body posture and position, Dr. Blanke concluded that the patient was experiencing an unusual perception of her own body, as a double. But for reasons that scientists have not been able to explain, he said, she did not recognize that it was her own body she was sensing.

The feeling of a shadowy presence can occur without electrical stimulation to the brain, Dr. Brugger said. It has been described by people who undergo sensory deprivation, as in mountaineers trekking at high altitude or sailors crossing the ocean alone, and by people who have suffered minor strokes or other disruptions in blood flow to the brain.

Six years ago, another of Dr. Blanke’s patients underwent brain stimulation to a different multisensory area, the angular gyrus, which blends vision with the body sense. The patient experienced a complete out-of-body experience.

When the current flowed, she said: “I am at the ceiling. I am looking down at my legs.”

When the current ceased, she said: “I’m back on the table now. What happened?”

Further applications of the current returned the woman to the ceiling, causing her to feel as if she were outside of her body, floating, her legs dangling below her. When she closed her eyes, she had the sensation of doing sit-ups, with her upper body approaching her legs.

Because the woman’s felt position in space and her actual position in space did not match, her mind cast about for the best way to turn her confusion into a coherent experience, Dr. Blanke said. She concluded that she must be floating up and away while looking downward.

Some schizophrenics, Dr. Blanke said, experience paranoid delusions and the sense that someone is following them. They also sometimes confuse their own actions with the actions of other people. While the cause of these symptoms is not known, he said, multisensory processing areas may be involved.

When otherwise normal people experience bodily delusions, Dr. Blanke said, they are often flummoxed. The felt sensation of the body is so seamless, so familiar, that people do not realize it is a creation of the brain, even when something goes wrong and the brain is perturbed.

Yet the sense of body integrity is rather easily duped, Dr. Blanke said.

And while it may be tempting to invoke the supernatural when this body sense goes awry, he said the true explanation is a very natural one, the brain’s attempt to make sense of conflicting information.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/services/xml/rss/nyt/Health.xml

.

some people like to get all worked up about the idea that reality is only what we perceive. I don't believe that. reality is independent of our perception of it.

What dimension of reality do mad people operate from?? Im pretty sure its beyond the 3D or 4D, but I'll appreciate an explanation.

joe4christ: Just immagine the extent of deception going on in this last days.
Satan's scheme is to decieve many by feeding them with lies they've always desired and you all are busy feeding fat on it.
Let me tell you the truth, those astral treveling and NDE's are mostly inspired by demons, they are demonic in nature, they are from the origin of darkness.
The word of the lord cannot be broken, it stands sure forever.
Choose ye this day who to believe, the word of God or the deceptive theories of satan!

Grow a brain.

Billyonaire: Pick up a few books and read more. But I can authoritatively say as follows: "Where Logic stops, is where other fields of research begins' seek other fields. Logic has limitation and you are at its limit. Its like using a gun to shoot at the Sun. You have exhausted Logic, you might end up becoming atheist, cos while treading the path of Logic, I was atheist for many years. Now I know better.

i Love this post

there arE Lots of things Logic wouLd tell you are Lies,

Limitations to what the human Mind is capabLe of!!

joe4christ: Just immagine the extent of deception going on in this last days.
Satan's scheme is to decieve many by feeding them with lies they've always desired and you all are busy feeding fat on it.
Let me tell you the truth, those astral treveling and NDE's are mostly inspired by demons, they are demonic in nature, they are from the origin of darkness.
The word of the lord cannot be broken, it stands sure forever.
Choose ye this day who to believe, the word of God or the deceptive theories of satan!

I understand ur conviction in christ,I'm a christian too,so i get it

but what we are discussing here is far from deception,infact what u perceive as deception is just a speck of the truth man is trying to understand,which cannot happen,because the more u think you are Learning,the Lesser you know

Even the bibLe confirms this,1Corinthians 2-14: But the Natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God ,for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him,neither CAN HE KNOW THEM,BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED

so infact according to the bible now,sir. . .ur stiLL an ordinary man who should have been transformed by Now to understand the spiritual things,which you now describe as satanic.

Don't just get yourself confused in a bid 2 "Convert" ppl!!

A thread for weed patronizers.

Just before the emergence of 3D, we might have thought it would be spiritual. All i know is that one can never get the imagination of the spirit world right. Bible says "eyes have not seen...."

So many people have experience this OBE. I can't imagine a little boy smoking WEED and sees everybody in the community as being tiny in his eyes.

@rossike

Multi dimensions describe the properties of space itself, which is physical on its own. To assume multidimensional space is actually spirit world is ridiculous.

My contention is with these so called NDE, is that they still perceive space which shouldn't be possible. Its inconsistent.

Does 4D means u can see through walls or what cos i know 3D includes x y and z cordinates and nothin else, so pls op can u explain how 4D looks cos the only way it will exist is to be seeing thru walls...

Billyonaire: You asked 3 questions and I gave 3 responses. Is there something I missed. Sorry if I missed, will review it.

Yes, interactions are on a solar level that cant be explained in mere words. Much more like questions are known and responses come intuitively, yes there is communication. Developing OBE was painstaking, my desire to know made me persistent and took over a year of constant practice. But its the mostly simple but hardest thing to stay focus and blank your mind of all thoughts, isnt it. If you know what I mean.

I'm totally a spiritual person. I've tried having an OBE before. On the first day I tried and I could not. On the second day, I came close to leaving my body. My whole body was vibrating, my legs were tingling. Then there was this loud vibration in my ears. Being my first experience, I thought it was my fridge initially but I then remembered it was part of the experience as I had read earlier on in the day, moreover my fridge doesn't make noise while working. I could feel my inner me from chest downwards to my legs floating up above my body. However, part of my soul was still stuck in upper body - my chest. My hands had also come out. My eyes were closed all through the experience but I could see my room, my body and sidewards from my head angle on the bed with my inner eyes. I tried slipping out fully severally. I tried the rolling out on your side method didn't work. Tried the climbing an infinite ladder method, didn't work out. Kept trying but couldn't fully come out. Then I began to feel my soul returning to my body again until it slammed in totally. I was sad I had failed given that I had wholly wanted to experience the OBE. Ever since then I haven't tried it again given my busy schedule. But I've got some free time recently and would love to try it again.
Could you please describe to me how you successfully achieve yours?

haibe: Does 4D means u can see through walls or what cos i know 3D includes x y and z cordinates and nothin else, so pls op can u explain how 4D looks cos the only way it will exist is to be seeing thru walls...

[size=15pt]Yea, 4D is seeing deep into the deepest, you're able to see into walls and into objects and see all it is made up of, in the spiritual realm which 4D and other higher dimentions of visualisation are in active mode nothing is hidden, no room for ignorance cos everything is on the open display.
My only problem here is not about the true existance of 4D and other higher Ds but of the fact that the source of you NDE's OBE's could be of dark origin sourced by the kingdom of darkness and use you as a tool to spread their deceptive lies.
I personally dont need to experience OBE or NDE to experience the spiritual realm, i have a secured source of spiritual experience and that is via the holy spirit who is of God's kingdowm which is of light and purity - Holy!
Through this source, you would see truth and experience truth of truth.
Believe me, you cannot experience the spiritual realm except it's been sponsored and sourced by a divine source, and this source could be of either dark force or the force of light.
There are only two kingdoms, the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light - the kingdom of darkness consists of satan and his demons while that of light consists of Jesus and his holy angels and the saints who died in christ.
So your experience is either authored by God or by satan.
So, question your source cos it could be demonic.
This is the truth, and the truth they say is always unpleasant.
God help us all![/size]

Kay 17: @rossike

Multi dimensions describe the properties of space itself, which is physical on its own. To assume multidimensional space is actually spirit world is ridiculous.

My contention is with these so called NDE, is that they still perceive space which shouldn't be possible. Its inconsistent.

Is it hard to see that the physical world as we perceive it with her five senses is infact a subset of a wider and larger world? Is it not conceited to strongly believe that whatever cant be expleined away by our "elementry" scientific knowledge is false. The word spiritual realm, like someone pointed out, is just a nomenclature, no biggy.
Come-on, even euclid geometry, we use daily to make things happen, has limitation: Euclid's method consists in **assuming a small set of intuitively appealing axioms**, and deducing many other propositions (theorems) from these. At the lowest level of science assumtions are still made, yet it works at the macro level. I dont know, maybe I am making no sense.

ositadima1:

Is it hard to see that the physical world as we perceive it with her five senses is infact a subset of a wider and larger world? Is it not conceited to strongly believe that whatever cant be expleined away by our "elementry" scientific knowledge is false. The word spiritual realm, like someone pointed out, is just a nomenclature, no biggy.
Come-on, even euclid geometry, we use daily to make things happen, has limitation: Euclid's method consists in **assuming a small set of intuitively appealing axioms**, and deducing many other propositions (theorems) from these. At the lowest level of science assumtions are still made, yet it works at the macro level. I dont know, maybe I am making no sense.

I didn't say whatever Science doesn't approve is false, I'm saying the whole spirit world hypothesis is inconsistent. Whether the physical world is a small part of existence, we genuinely don't know through our senses, however Reason still stands supreme.

Foundational axioms of Euclid geometry still appeal to reason not mysticism.

ositadima1:

[size=15pt] Is it hard to see that the physical world as we perceive it with our five senses is infact a subset of a wider and larger world? Is it not conceited to strongly believe that whatever cant be expleined away by our "elementry" scientific knowledge is false?[/size] The word spiritual realm, like someone pointed out, is just a nomenclature, no biggy.
Come-on, even euclid geometry, we use daily to make things happen, has limitation: Euclid's method consists in **assuming a small set of intuitively appealing axioms**, and deducing many other propositions (theorems) from these. At the lowest level of science assumtions are still made, yet it works at the macro level. I dont know, maybe I am making no sense.

Please tell the bolded to those shallow minded set of people called atheist.
They just hate knowledge as demonstrated by them refusing to make further research on subject issues with the verge of finding out truth for themselves.
They just twist their minds against reality thereby limiting their mental capability.
What a pathetic sets of people (self-proclaimed wise people)
i leave them to their self-delusion since they are blind to knowledge and reasoning!

bigfrancis21:
I'm totally a spiritual person. I've tried having an OBE before. On the first day I tried and I could not. On the second day, I came close to leaving my body. My whole body was vibrating, my legs were tingling. Then there was this loud vibration in my ears. Being my first experience, I thought it was my fridge initially but I then remembered it was part of the experience as I had read earlier on in the day, moreover my fridge doesn't make noise while working. I could feel my inner me from chest downwards to my legs floating up above my body. However, part of my soul was still stuck in upper body - my chest. My hands had also come out. My eyes were closed all through the experience but I could see my room, my body and sidewards from my head angle on the bed with my inner eyes. I tried slipping out fully severally. I tried the rolling out on your side method didn't work. Tried the climbing an infinite ladder method, didn't work out. Kept trying but couldn't fully come out. Then I began to feel my soul returning to my body again until it slammed in totally. I was sad I had failed given that I had wholly wanted to experience the OBE. Ever since then I haven't tried it again given my busy schedule. But I've got some free time recently and would love to try it again.
Could you please describe to me how you successfully achieve yours?

Congratulations for trying. You achieved partial bilocation, meaning that your astral self went partially out of range with the physical body. The astral body doesnt need physical ears to hear. You can hear everything, but the physical body dedicates hearing to ear. I dare say that material needs often always takes us away from desires to explore the dimensions beyond the physically seen. There is more to this world that we cant even see with physical eyes but with OBE more senses are activated and we see other beings we share the planet with and we are even able to visit other worlds. Keep trying and next time dont push, surrender yourself totally to self and dont try using physical strength to push cos physical energy will only make the venture more physical, surrender and let the self take control of the venture and you wiLl be floating and you will jet out. Hey, dont be afraid, and when you return you will become more aware of life and its meaning. Good luck in your trials and dont fail to experience other dimensions in this life time and dont wait until you die to experience life in full colours if you know what i mean.

pastormustwacc:
So you have experienced this other world then? For your life to have meaning.

Yes my life now has more meaning, when I was preaching as an elder in church and saying "In my Father's house, there are many mansions, When I go, I will prep a place for you, so that where I am, you will also be there with me' I didnt know what I was preaching. But may be you can ask me now and I know much more beyond that. Yes, my life has fcking meaning. I now know where I will be going and I try to work towards making friends so when I go back, my boys over there will say, Hah, chair, you don finally relocate, welcome to your abode. And for countless others, they will need serious orientations and ass whooping by my boys...lol . Lest i forget, who amongst you dare to question in honesty to know where Lord Jesus, the Christ was, from Age 13 to 30 ? I guess many of you will embrace OBE and its purpose more if you care to research on that. Its not enough to just preach and not care about the truth about the history of Isa Ibn Mariam, Jesus of the Christ Consciousness.

joe4christ:

[size=15pt]Yea, 4D is seeing deep into the deepest, you're able to see into walls and into objects and see all it is made up of, in the spiritual realm which 4D and other higher dimentions of visualisation are in active mode nothing is hidden, no room for ignorance cos everything is on the open display.
My only problem here is not about the true existance of 4D and other higher Ds but of the fact that the source of you NDE's OBE's could be of dark origin sourced by the kingdom of darkness and use you as a tool to spread their deceptive lies.
I personally dont need to experience OBE or NDE to experience the spiritual realm, i have a secured source of spiritual experience and that is via the holy spirit who is of God's kingdowm which is of light and purity - Holy!
Through this source, you would see truth and experience truth of truth.
Believe me, you cannot experience the spiritual realm except it's been sponsored and sourced by a divine source, and this source could be of either dark force or the force of light.
There are only two kingdoms, the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light - the kingdom of darkness consists of satan and his demons while that of light consists of Jesus and his holy angels and the saints who died in christ.
So your experience is either authored by God or by satan.
So, question your source cos it could be demonic.
This is the truth, and the truth they say is always unpleasant.
God help us all![/size]

Did i say anything about OBE?

haibe:

Did i say anything about OBE?

You better dont!

Billyonaire: Yes my life now has more meaning, when I was preaching as an elder in church and saying "In my Father's house, there are many mansions, When I go, I will prep a place for you, so that where I am, you will also be there with me' I didnt know what I was preaching. But may be you can ask me now and I know much more beyond that. Yes, my life has fcking meaning. I now know where I will be going and I try to work towards making friends so when I go back, my boys over there will say, Hah, chair, you don finally relocate, welcome to your abode. And for countless others, they will need serious orientations and ass whooping by my boys...lol . [size=15pt]Lest i forget, who amongst you dare to question in honesty to know where Lord Jesus, the Christ was, from Age 13 to 30? [/size] I guess many of you will embrace OBE and its purpose more if you care to research on that. Its not enough to just preach and not care about the truth about the history of Isa Ibn Mariam, Jesus of the Christ Consciousness.

You dont need no one to dare you on that, i'm here to checkmate your lies.
So say it, if it's true i would say it out here and if it's false i would refute your claim immidiately!

Call me ignorant,naive,crazy,lazy or whatever you want,I'll stick with the word of God-Bible,and all it says. OBE/NDE's are real, undoubtly. People experience them everyday. But any of it that attempts to ignore the significance or relevance of The Lord Jesus in 'spiritual' matters,from the onset,was staged by the devil. He will do anything to propagate a no-Jesus spirit-realm/reality. And thats exactly what so many comments on here alludes to,a no-Jesus spirit-realm/reality. Some even relating physical laws with spiritual realities. Even if astral-travel and whatever are real and practical(after all Job did have such an experience),which I don't doubt,I consider putting them into practice(without the aid of Jesus and the HolySpirit) when still alive on earth as violating of Spiritual laws,which by the way is the devil's pre-occupation. The fact that d forbidden fruit existed to d full glare of Adam&Eve didnt mean they were permitted to eat it. God,in his infinite mercy/love has given us the best and safest way to Him and thats Jesus the Christ. Any other means,I mean any other means,regardless of who[human] may have deviced it,ultimately, is from The Slanderer,the devil. Just like Adam&Eve,why do humans hate restriction? Not every curosity leads to a righteous end. Real Christians(not the religious) are aware of this. Thanks.

Billyonaire: Yes my life now has more meaning, when I was preaching as an elder in church and saying "In my Father's house, there are many mansions, When I go, I will prep a place for you, so that where I am, you will also be there with me' I didnt know what I was preaching. But may be you can ask me now and I know much more beyond that. Yes, my life has fcking meaning. I now know where I will be going and I try to work towards making friends so when I go back, my boys over there will say, Hah, chair, you don finally relocate, welcome to your abode. And for countless others, they will need serious orientations and ass whooping by my boys...lol . Lest i forget, who amongst you dare to question in honesty to know where Lord Jesus, the Christ was, from Age 13 to 30 ? I guess many of you will embrace OBE and its purpose more if you care to research on that. Its not enough to just preach and not care about the truth about the history of Isa Ibn Mariam, Jesus of the Christ Consciousness.

@Billyonaire yesterday I said obe is just the brain playing tricks with the body,but after following your posts closely and reading all tru the night on this phenomena,I am forced to have a shift in belief......I'll really like it if you could help me sort out some doubts I still have about it tho

Even cartoons experience OBE's