Itoroetti :
I believe d poser isn't a christian,if not,he wouldn't asked the questions he asked.did u expect the muslims guys to tell u that the don't commit sucide for Allah's sake?go and study how islam is always able to capture a territory if its not through war.are u telling me that if the boko harams guys succeed in their missions,their cleric won't tell them that they have their rewards purely kept for them in heaven?shine ur eye.why is it that when prophet mohd is potray a s bad,his followers starts causing trouble?are u telling me that d don't know what d are doing?u can only decieve few people,not all.

So there are issues in Islam upon which there are differences of opinion
I have not seen a mainstream scholar endorse suicide bombing
There were people who held extreme positions during the time of the Prophet (PBUH) and he denounced them publicly as a lesson to ALL

But we know that offshoots of renegades will have people sanctioning their misguided actions
Anwar Awlaki encouraged Mutallab to commit suicide. But Mutallab's father reported him to the Americans before the act
The guy should have been on the No-fly list
Do we continue to insist that Muttalab's dad is lying when he says that he does not believe in suicide bombing
Before the issue of Boko Haram, did you hear of Shekau? What works has he authored? Is he fighting jihad? If yes, has he fulfilled the conditions? What positions does he hold on certain issues

I personally WILL NOT commit suicide based on the injunctions of the Quran and what established scholars have said. I have perfect control over that. Whether or not you will believe that is an issue that I have no control over

People who fight people over the insult on the Prophet (PBUH) are not engaged in suicide bombing which is the subject of this thread
Muslims don't hide the fact that they fight. So that issue is really to mislead
But suicide is wrong!

I believe Christians who tell me that Rev King was wrong in burning adulterers. But you will recall that his followers continued to praise him in court
With such dedicated followership, does his action now legalise this form of punishment for Christians. No in my opinion

J-LANCE:
just dnt know why this 'Striktlymi' sounds like a muslim to me. I grew up with muslims, then this people were good o we use to go normal. Now i cant roll with them. This una religion self. Everywhere una dey for this world peace no dey. I'm not in for any argument. One thing that bothers me sef about you people _i dont see any effort your islamic leaders are making to condem this group of reta.rds called boko haram

Good evening sir,

I believe firmly in individual rights, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. You have every right to think that I am a muslim but that does not make it true. Like I maintained, my religious affiliation is not in question here. The bone of contention is whether the Quran permits suicide or not.

If you have any insight to share, I will be glad to hear it.

I am quite sad that instead of the victim(me) to argue out of emotions and sentiments, I find others doing this.


Thank you!

striktlymi: Good morning Mr. Proo,

I am not here to speak for Islam neither do I claim to know the quran. All I will apply here are intuitive knowledge.

I believe you are a Christian and I decipher from your post that you are quite angry. I do understand your anger and frankly when my Uncle was killed I was very angry and looked for whom to blame. But is this the Christian spirit?

I felt the need to say my bit because I opened the thread and I don't want it to become a "battle ground" for all. I welcome any constructive argument both for and against.

But when I went through the quotes you put forward, I was quick to note that those quotes did not in any way support suicide. The quran was quite explicit about those it regards as martyrs and one key ingredient is being killed by someone or something else in the cause of Allah.




* The bolded implies that someone has to do it not the individual killing him or herself.



* The bolded still implies same. For the second bit, the prophet said the man fought till he was killed not that the man went to kill himself.



* The bolded actually strengthens the case of Islam. When one is stricken by a plague or Cholera which was incurable at the time, the need to commit suicide would be high but the prophet made them understand that allowing the process take its toll till you die for the sake of Allah without giving yourself to the temptation of suicide is heroic and as such implies martyrdom. This also can make a case for Jihad. From this I believe Jihad is not just about fighting humans. If you fight an internal struggle then you can be said to have fought bravely for the cause of Allah if and only if you do so for him.

It is quite clear too in our every day lives. If for instance you happen to kill a renowned criminal in cold blood, everyone in the society will be happy but the law will not find this funny. You will indeed be prosecuted as charged. So the fact that some Muslims are happy and the actions of the suicide bomber seem to be noble to him does not free that person from the judgement of Allah.

Thank you!

May almighty Allah guide u.Its been ages I read a write up from an intelligent,non bigot, non muslim. I am highly impressed at the objectivity u displayed. Thumbs up bro!
Sorry for ur uncle's death.

striktlymi:

Good evening sir,

With due respect sir, I don't think your argument is tenable. Those who practice suicide bombings do so because they believe they are fighting Jihad and they are of the view that they can attain martyrdom through this process. In the time of Muhammed there was Jihad, martyrdom is extolled and there was suicide. Despite these facts, the prophet never recommended suicide as a way of fighting Jihad nor attaining martyrdom.

If you have a contrary view to do this, I am most glad to hear it but please try and back it up with at least one quote from the Quran.


Thank you!

Quran-4:74- Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory (i.e. killed or be killed) - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

Quran-4:95- Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons (sacrifice both life and wealth) than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.

babyosisi:

Sharia teaches that an adulteress be stoned to death
Find me a passage of the Koran that says so
It is part of sharia but it is not in the Koran anywhere
I am taking these pains to tell you that Islam has other sources that form their sharia besides the Koran
I wish you could understand that bit
But when they deceive you they tell you it is not in the Koran so it is wrong and the gullible swallow it
They won't tell you there are other schools of thought that disagree and it is still Islamic
But they know you are being deceived but you don't know

If something is stated explicitly in the Qur'an any Hadith that contradicts it is disregarded and classified as fake. An example is the case of pork;

2:173-
"He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], there is no sin upon him. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

5:03-
"Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah , and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

6:145-
"Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me [anything] forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be [that slaughtered in] disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit], then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful.""

16:115-
"He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit] - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."

Side Note: In case you didn't know, swine is another word for pig which is what pork is.

You can see from the above verses that an allowance was given by Allah when forced by 'necessity' unlike the issue of suicide where it is explicitly forbidden.

maclatunji: @hisblud, it is simple logic- if suicide bombing Is so "great and grand", why isn't the leader the first to go? The truth is our government is sleeping, if a country that is Muslim and poor like Mauritania can curb terrorists, Nigeria has no business being in this Boko Haram mess.

It is a manifestation of weak leadership which is very annoying.

The boko haram issue is left unresolved by the govt deliberately.I believe that those who are in charge of the almost one trillion naira defence budget will want the party to continue ad infinitum. They can afford to because they are behind the lines and not the ones dying on the front line. On suicide bombing enough has been posted on the fact that a muslim who takes his own life deliberately has only hastened his journey to hell - this is why suicides were virtually unheard of in early muslim societies with deep knowledge of sound islamic teachings. As for boko haram it's their leaders who hav misguided the largely ignorant and disillusioned young people under their spell.

[quote author=maclatunji]@hisblud, it is simple logic- if suicide bombing Is so "great and grand", why isn't the leader the first to go? The truth is our government is sleeping, if a country that is Muslim and poor like Mauritania can curb terrorists, Nigeria has no business being in this Boko Haram mess.

sorry, double post.

gidiMonsta:

If something is stated explicitly in the Qur'an any Hadith that contradicts it is disregarded and classified as fake. An example is the case of pork;



You can see from the above verses that an allowance was given by Allah when forced by 'necessity' unlike the issue of suicide where it is explicitly forbidden.

What are we talking pork?
I am talking about adultery and stoning
Is it written in the Oran or not?
Simple question

striktlymi:

Good evening sir,

I believe firmly in individual rights, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. You have every right to think that I am a muslim but that does not make it true. Like I maintained, my religious affiliation is not in question here. The bone of contention is whether the Quran permits suicide or not.

If you have any insight to share, I will be glad to hear it.

I am quite sad that instead of the victim(me) to argue out of emotions and sentiments, I find others doing this.


Thank you!

mek una continue dey argue una ting wetin concern me wit islam and suicide. SORRY FOR YOUR LOST. me no be crious xtain sef na d ting weh tis muslim pple dey do fo naija dey mek me see the whole religion somehow. Haba killin pple o. One ting tat do vex me sef is wen dey start sayin tat tier religion of peace ting, wen dey have notin to show tat they are peaceful sorry if im off topic. but if tis thread na to decieve pple only God go judge una.

DANILSA:
Quran-4:74- Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory (i.e. killed or be killed) - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

Quran-4:95- Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons (sacrifice both life and wealth) than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.

Good evening sir,

Thank you very much for the quotes you provided. I have read through them, word for word, what I see is a call to martyrdom by the prophet i.e fighting and being killed for the cause of Allah. The quotes however, did not say anything about suicide.

Now let's be frank, if say Cameroun decides to invade Nigeria, I bet we would rise up to fight! There was a post I made sometime ago calling on Christians in the North to rise up and fight this menace called Bokoharam instead of sitting at home and watch their families die. This is hardly a call to commit suicide.

In the case of the prophet the catch is, when the people who are called to fight do so for the cause of Allah then they fight a Jihad and would attain martyrdom if they eventually get killed in the process. It is quite different from asking people to commit suicide.


Thank you!

DANILSA:
Quran-4:74- Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory (i.e. killed or be killed) - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).

Quran-4:95- Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons (sacrifice both life and wealth) than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.

Thank you
Suicide bombers are driven by those verses and the a islamic schools of thought that support them base it on those verses and many like it
You heard Dr Zakir tell us the word suicide in suicide bombing is a misnomer
It is not considered suicide in their books
They are fighting a jihad
The aim is to cause maximum damage to the enemy as you sneak upon them and if the perpetrator dies in so doing, allah be praised,he achieves martyrdom
There is already a call in Islam to do just that.
The Koran says hunt down non Muslims and kill them and establish an Islamic empire for Allah
usman Dan fodio heard that call ,jumped on a horse and started slaughtering his way through,he was not sharing bazooka joe to the people he met
Abu Mutallab heard it and tied a bomb unto his Blokoss and bought an airline ticket

striktlymi:

Good morning again Tunji,

I read through both arguments in the links you provided and from what I read, I am convinced that Islam is against all forms of suicide.

The first argument was very thorough, delving into various forms of suicide and even Euthansia. I was particularly glad that the author used the quran as the basis for his arguments. It would be impossible for any open and unbiased mind to fault his argument.

The second author, though is of the opinion that suicide is condemned by the quran but he believes that some form of suicide can be allowed. This argument might seem appealing but I wasn't convinced because he failed to back this position with the quran. Instead he relied on philosophy to drive home his point. His opinion that suicide is permissible when someone is forced into it is not readily convincing for me because the quran stated clearly that even if you suffer some unbearable wound, (which can be an excuse for forced suicide) suicide is still not permissible.

However, I noted that "intent" is a very important concept in Islam. And the intent of a suicide bomber might just be his or her escape route from hell. I am of the opinion that if the suicide bomber who killed my Uncle did it out of a sincerity of heart and is ignorant of the provisions in the quran about suicide then that individual can make heaven if he lead a good life before the bombing.

Thank you once again Tunji, cause now I know that my Uncle's death was not brought about by the teachings of the quran. I pray for the soul of my Uncle and the person who murdered him and hope that both of them make heaven.


Thank you!

hey who told u dat bokoharams are muslim or did u see dem face to face.

babyosisi:



Thank you
Suicide bombers are driven by those verses and the a islamic schools of thought that support them base it on those verses and many like it
You heard Dr Zakir tell us the word suicide in suicide bombing is a misnomer
It is not considered suicide in their books
They are fighting a jihad
The aim is to cause maximum damage to the enemy as you sneak upon them and if the perpetrator dies in so doing, allah be praised,he achieves martyrdom
There is already a call in Islam to do just that.
The Koran says hunt down non Muslims and kill them and establish an Islamic empire for Allah
usman Dan fodio heard that call ,jumped on a horse and started slaughtering his way through,he was not sharing bazooka joe to the people he met
Abu Mutallab heard it and tied a bomb unto his Blokoss and bought an airline ticket

hey don't say wat u don't no..

babyosisi:



Thank you
Suicide bombers are driven by those verses and the a islamic schools of thought that support them base it on those verses and many like it
You heard Dr Zakir tell us the word suicide in suicide bombing is a misnomer
It is not considered suicide in their books
They are fighting a jihad
The aim is to cause maximum damage to the enemy as you sneak upon them and if the perpetrator dies in so doing, allah be praised,he achieves martyrdom
There is already a call in Islam to do just that.
The Koran says hunt down non Muslims and kill them and establish an Islamic empire for Allah
usman Dan fodio heard that call ,jumped on a horse and started slaughtering his way through,he was not sharing bazooka joe to the people he met
Abu Mutallab heard it and tied a bomb unto his Blokoss and bought an airline ticket

"The Koran says hunt down non Muslims and kill them and establish an Islamic empire for Allah". It is misleading to quote or refer to a verse in the Quran without telling the reader the circumstances in which the verse was revealed. You clearly set out to mislead.

The scholars of Islam have underscored five major objectives of the Islamic law based on the noble Quran and the Sunnah of our Prophet Muhammad.

These objectives are the protection and promotion of the following:

1.Religion
2. Life
3. Progeny or family
4. Intellect or mind
5. Property or wealth

your primary purpose of existence is the worship of Allah; from that comes everything including the sanctity of human life. Allah tells us Himself it is sacred(roughly translated):

Do not take life, which God has made sacred, except by right: if anyone is killed wrongfully, We have given authority to the defender of his rights, but he should not be excessive in taking life, for he is already aided [by God]. (Surah 17:33)

Here, Allah declares the sanctity of Human life, and only permits it when a crime such as murder is committed even then the option is given to the family on whether to carry out the punishment. This is in the case of murder...

So how sacred is human life? Allah says in the Quran (roughly translated):

On account of [his deed], We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person– unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land– it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind. Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Surah 5:32)

Allah relays to us a decree to the previous muslim nation that applies to us. Anyone who kills a person unjustly is as if he has killed the whole of humanity and anyone who saves a life has saved not only that life but the whole of humanity.

This is the weight of taking a person's life unjustly... And this is not only for muslims:

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever kills a mu‘aahid (a non-Muslim living under Muslim rule) will not smell the fragrance of Paradise, although its fragrance may be detected from a distance of forty years.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2995

Anyone who kills non-muslim living in the land of the muslims will not smell the fragrance of pardise...

We are to deal justly and kindly with those who have done nothing to harm us: Allah says


"Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: For Allah loves those who are just" (60:8)

We are to deal justly and kindly with those that have not harmed us in any way...

So wars do happen, don't they? ... What are the rules of conflict for the muslim?

Narrated By 'Abdullah : During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children. (Saheeh Muslim Book 019, Hadith Number 4319).

Then Abu Bakr, the first caliph based on the prophetic teaching advised a military commander, Yazid, "I advise you ten things| Do not kill women or children or an aged, infirm person. Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees. Do not destroy an inhabited place. Do not slaughter sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty, and do not be cowardly." Maliks Muwatta Book 021, Hadith Number 010.

You are not even allowed to kill animals except for food, nor cut trees

The present life is used to attain the after-life, therefore it is important that a muslim uses what he has been given in this life to attain the success of the hereafter. Islam is all about fulfilling the rights of everyone, Fulfilling the rights of Allah, Fulfilling the rights of the prophet, Fulfilling the rights of of your neighbour, fulfilling the rights of your employer, fulfilling the rights of your parents, fulfilling the rights of your children, fulfilling the rights of your wife, Fulfilling the rights of the animals.

Islam implies that you fulfill all the rights... Allah says in the Quran (roughly translated):

God commands you [people] to return things entrusted to you to their rightful owners, and, if you judge between people, to do so with justice: God’s instructions to you are excellent, for He hears and sees everything. (Surah Nisa:58)

"O ye who believe! stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do" (5:

The watch word for the muslim is Justice even if it is against himself...

A muslim that kills an innocent person will have to face justice with Allah. As regards terrorism, whether it is committed by a state that sends an army or drones to kill innocent people or a group of militants for any ideology. It is deeply frowned upon by Islam. Unfortunately, there are some muslims who have used their anger at the state of the muslims to commit acts that have no historical or scriptural basis in Islam.

Allah allows for Self defence for individuals when you are wronged but there are limits that must not be transgressed. Allah says (roughly translated):

There is no cause to act against anyone who defends himself after being wronged, but there is cause to act against those who oppress people and transgress in the land against all justice– they will have an agonizing torment– (Surah 42: 41-42)


A muslim state can engage in preemptive or retaliatory attacks but this is only for a state, not individuals or a group of individuals. This has been the understanding by Muslim scholars for centuries...

.

i love Christainity. Jesus said leave vengeance for me. Why would islam permit jihad in d first place? It is because of this jihad that islams are very violent. Test Christainity and ur life will neva remain thesame.

In d world today chk all the crisis nation it is islam. Why why why?

Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing.

They try to tell me my religion is
wrong
They try to tell me to follow Islam
They said their prophet was a
righteous dude
But I found out none of their
words were true
I read the Quran and I read the
hadith
And the sickness of Muhammad
was apparent to me
He justified perversion in the
name of Allah
When he married a girl too
young for a bra
She was playing with dolls when
the prophet came
Her childhood was stolen in
Allah’s name
Aisha was nine when he took
her to bed
Don’t tell me that fool’s not sick in
the head
Ain’t gonna follow no child
molester, sex offender, prophet
pretender.
Ain't gonna follow no child
molester,
Islam is not for me.
Islam is not for me.
The sickness of the Islamic mind
Has caused the Mullahs to be
blind
To justify their prophet they
would justify sin
So the sins of the prophet are
repeated again
All over the world in Islamic
states
9 year old girls suffer cruel fate
Sold into marriage to twisted
men
And Aisha’s sad story is repeated
again
Ain’t gonna follow no child
molester, sex offender, prophet
pretender.
Ain't gonna follow no child
molester,
Islam is not for me.
Islam is not for me.
Do you care about women all
over the world?
Do you care about those little
girls?
Then stand up and fight for
human rights
Speak out against the laws of
Islam
Ain’t gonna follow no child
molester, sex offender, prophet
pretender.
Ain't gonna follow no child
molester,
Islam is not for me.
Islam is not for me.
Islam is not for me.

@All, Very nice discussions going on here. I really appreciate the courtesy that's being tried to be maintained.
One thing we should all realize is that this world has a salad of religions, whether we like it or not, we have to live and relate with one another.
Its a pity that ignorant people are being used by the greedy and the rich(yes,there is (are) a big business (wo)ma(e)n behind the bombings in the country. I think a large chunk of our grievances should be directed towards
1. The rich who invest in the weapons these people are using
2.The 'smart' human beings who use others negatively, cashing in on their ignorance and brainwashing them
3. The government that has failed in its primary function of maintaenance of order. And order includes security. For it is not that everybody cannot take up arms and defend him/her self when necessary, but what kind of chaotic and uncontrolled society would that be?
Furthermore,
4. The Quran does not permit suicide. Several facts have been used to buttress this. Why are people hell bent on 'proving' otherwise?
5. Why do we even feel the need to make our respective religions be the 'winner'? Our arguments will not change the content of the Qur'an, or the Bible. So why cant invest productive manhours on things that we do can change? Like the state of this nation for example?
6. I am convinced about my religion, just as the Sango worshipper is as convinced about his. On judgement day, the truth will surface, abi? So why not focus on other issues?

The problem here is The Life of prophet Mohammed speaks Violence, He fought wars and spread Islam By war.From The genesis of Islam, Slaying and Been slayed Have been an Issue. There was a Time the Prophet invaded a Town killed The headchief and Married The Wife. As A Muslim U̶̲̅ won't mind This and Things Like Virgins, the prophet even said he dosnt know where he is Goings, its all Facts. Now southerners are Better Muslims because They won't kill for Religion. But Islam encourage me To Kill My son or Bro if she convert. An Hausa Man would Easily do This but it will Be difficult for A southerner. Now experiment to see which is Violent btw Islam and Xtians. Go to a mosque anywhere and Trow stone into Their Mist, such person is Dead, Go to Church and do same. Thou the church could talk But They won't lyche. Can U̶̲̥̅̊ compare Jesus to Mohammed when It come to LIfE issues. Nope, But The truth is its where we are Born that we will defend. Thank God for southern Muslim Custom and Society They will always stand Out as great Muslims

babyosisi:



Thank you
Suicide bombers are driven by those verses and the a islamic schools of thought that support them base it on those verses and many like it
You heard Dr Zakir tell us the word suicide in suicide bombing is a misnomer
It is not considered suicide in their books
They are fighting a jihad
The aim is to cause maximum damage to the enemy as you sneak upon them and if the perpetrator dies in so doing, allah be praised,he achieves martyrdom
There is already a call in Islam to do just that.
The Koran says hunt down non Muslims and kill them and establish an Islamic empire for Allah
usman Dan fodio heard that call ,jumped on a horse and started slaughtering his way through,he was not sharing bazooka joe to the people he met
Abu Mutallab heard it and tied a bomb unto his Blokoss and bought an airline ticket

I have watched Dr Naik's video before now. He said that some people justify suicide bombing as part of a military strategy
This is similar to kamikaze bombing used by Japan as part of military strategy in the later part of WW II
Even then I don't agree with that position
Furthermore Muslims are not permitted to abuse leaders of other religions or destroy churches, synagogues and mosques
Additional reason to dispute Boko Haram's doctrine

Since you prefer to explain Islam by the actions of a misguided few who are less than 1% of muslims
Can we explain Christianity by the actions of the likes of Rev King

Sorry for the loss,Bokoharam is a terrorist organization fuelled by ignorance and poverty resulting from societal failure to meet the very essence of providing security and justice to the common man and parental neglect of duty of guidance of their wards,religion is just a tool in the hand of these misguided and other criminal groups
.Muslims have been killed more by this group than any other people renowned Muslim scholars,students and the general public are not spared, anybody that goes against their ways is killed especially muslims who have boldly spoken against them.The bombing in Kano which led to the death of over 250 people and the loss of a channels TV reporter, had over 85% percent of the victims being muslims, but the media didn't emphasize that Muslims have been killed,Mosques,Islamic schools and Muslim families have lost their members due to the barbaric acts of these terrorist.
To your question,the answer is that Islam does not permit anyone to kill himself under any circumstance, because it is clearly stated that patience is part of iman(faith),the case of a man who was injured in an expedition with the prophet(S.A.W) come to mind, he wasn't patient to bear the situation and thus he pulled a sword and severed his stomach leading to his death,The prophet declared that he had died an unbeliever because he wasn't patient enough and he killled himself.
An hadith(saying of the prophet) was narrated of a woman,a wore, who would be granted paradise because she saved the live of an animal(a dog) which was starving and she gave water to the dog, because of this she was pardon;let alone human being.Islam teaches kindness to animals and they are not to be killed except for food let alone human.

gp66: i love Christainity. Jesus said leave vengeance for me. Why would islam permit jihad in d first place? It is because of this jihad that islams are very violent. Test Christainity and ur life will neva remain thesame.

In d world today chk all the crisis nation it is islam. Why why why?

Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing.

So tell us if the Battle of Lepanto is not vengeance?
Christianity was spread to the Philippines, Americas etc by the Sword!
we are not even talking about vengeance here

Jesus Christ (PBUH) prayed for a Roman centurion. He did not rebuke him for being a soldier!

But those enemies of mine who did
not want me to be king over them--
bring them here and kill them in front
of me.'" Luke 19:27

gp66: i love Christainity. Jesus said leave vengeance for me. Why would islam permit jihad in d first place? It is because of this jihad that islams are very violent. Test Christainity and ur life will neva remain thesame.

In d world today chk all the crisis nation it is islam. Why why why?

Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing.

Islam does not promise 72 virgins, or any forms of reward whatsoever for anyone who commits suicide. It is a totally absurd lie. The virgin myth has understandably received more than its fair share of publicity due to its hilarity and "romance" At the very least, it makes for a particularly gratifying affirmation for those who would love to see Islam go down the gutters. Besides, the harsh punishment that Islam bestows upon its followers who commit murder and suicide has been spelt out very clearly in the Quran:

Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful! If any do that in rancor and injustice, soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God. Chapter 4 Verse 29 - 30

Narrated Jundab the Prophet said, "A man was inflicted with wounds and he committed suicide, and so Allah said: My slave has caused death on himself hurriedly, so I forbid Paradise for him." (Bukhari Volume 2, Book 23, Number 445)

Narrated Thabit bin Ad-Dahhak:"And if somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Resurrection. (Bukhari Volume 8, Book 73, Number 73)

The condemnation Islam has towards suicide is so grave that it would be unthinkable for its followers to regard sex or VIRGINS as a reward if they were to take their lives.

So when Allah says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)”

we must know that it is not general, since the verse above has qualified it to refer to the pagan Arabs who were actually at war with the Prophet (peace be upon him) and those who broke their covenants of peace. we must know that it is not general, since the verse above has qualified it to refer to the pagan Arabs who were actually at war with the Prophet (peace be upon him) and those who broke their covenants of peace.

This is further emphasized a few verses later where Allah says: “Will you not fight people who broke their covenants and plotted to expel the Messenger and attacked you first?” [Sûrah al-Tawbah: 13]

It is, of course, well-known that Islam alone, among the major non-Christian religions, arose after the emergence of Christianity. Most Muslims would deny this and would say that Islam has always been the religion of the righteous man. They would claim, for example, that Abraham and even Adam were Muslims. Nevertheless it remains true that the religion of Islam as we know it, with its sacred book, its law and many of its cultic features, began at a definite historical time (approximately AD 560-632, the lifetime of the prophet of Islam) and is particularly tied up with with life of a particular person named Mohammed and the community which he founded. The Cult Of The Moon God ''ALLAH''

In the 1950's archaeology disproved the Muslim faith. A major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazor in Palestine. This important discovery of science is recorded in "The Moon-god Allah in the archaeology of the Middle East" by Dr. Robert A. Morey. Two idols of the Moon-god Allah were found, proving that the Allah which Muslims around the world worship as the only true God was a pre-Islamic pagan deity! Photos at the escavation of Allah sitting on a throne show the crescent moon, the symbol of the Islamic faith. Yet these Moon-god statues were made long before the Islamic faith was founded. With this in mind, let's look at a brief history of Islam. Sometime near the middle of the sixth century AD Mohammed, the yet to be Prophet of Islam, went to the city of Mecca, Arabia, where was located a pagan temple called the Kabah which housed 360 idols, including the Moon-god Allah! Mohammed was forced to flee Mecca with his small band of followers when his religious teachings were rejected there. He wanted to create his own religion and went to the Sabeans in Arabia who worshipped the three daughters of Allah, three idols to demon goddesses. Upon coming to the city of Al Medina, he declared that he was the Prophet of Allah sent to them. They militarily followed him, and by the sword they converted Arabia to the new Muslim faith, killing all who refused to convert to Islam. Violence has plagued Islam from its very inception, and as the new leader of the Muslim faith, Mohammed did not hesitate to rob and kill as a way of life. Concerning Mohammed's private life, he had a large harem, and at one time he even took away the wife of his adopted son and had sex with her when she was a child of only nine years old.

IS MOHAMMED INFALLIBLE?
According to the Muslim faith, Mohammed is infallible and you cannot doubt anything he ever said. For example, in Hadith 543-Vol. 4, it is stated by Mohammed that the earth is flat, not round, and has to be balanced by the mountains. Furthermore, when the sun goes down each night, it goes into a muddy spring according to Mohammed in Sahih 41:9-10. That, of course is contrary to what we have learned through science, yet Mohammed is right and science is wrong, at least according to the Muslim faith! Our first Adam was 90 feet tall according to Mohammed in Hadith 543-Vol. 4, and the angel Gabrieth has 600 wings according to Mohammed in Hadith 380-Vol. 6. Mohammed always had to have much bigger stories and alleged miracles than those contained in the Bible. Did you know that according to Mohammed Satan resides in the upper part of your nose at night, that dirty booger, so it's best to blow him out with some water up your nose in the morning! (Get serious! Some people still believe this!) Hadith 516-Vol. 4. Did you know that even though Alexander the Great was a recorded pagan who died hundreds of years before Mohammed's time, Mohammed claimed that he was a Muslim! And to top it off, Mohammed claimed that drinking camel urine will make you healthy! (Hadith Vol. 7:590) How many modern Muslims partake of that pearl of wisdom? The Koran, authored by Mohammed, states that Haman was Pharaoh's minister (cf. Suras 28, 5:29, 38:40, 25:38). Both Jewish and Christian scholars agree that only an ignorant man could have made this statement. Haman was the minister in the court of Persia, not Egypt. Joseph was the minister in Pharaoh's court. Mohammed got a number of Bible stories mixed up in their details. There were many Jews and Christians where Mohammed lived and he heard these Bible stories from them, he then somehow got his facts mixed up for these stories. Mohammed heard of the miracles of Jesus, and not to be outdone, he told his followers of miracles he had done which were greater than those of Jesus. Whatever Jesus did, he told his followers how he had done greater, greater miracles than Jesus. He told them of how he had ridden a unicorn through the air. He had many amazing, miraculous stories he told his followers. Mohammed told them how the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, was the sister of Aaron (Sura 19:28) and daughter of 'Imran' (Amram) (Sura 66:12) and hence identical with Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron. Mohammed missed this reference by maybe 1,400 to 1,500 years in light of Bible history! Jesus and Moses did not live a few years apart from each other, but would have had to if Mohammed were correct.

MORE CONFUSION!
Mohammed also stated that the wife and one son of Noah died in the world flood. Nearly 200 ancient civilizations have this universal story of the great world flood, with this strange man who entered a big boat with a lot of animals to save them. In none of these accounts, nor the Bible account, does it report that Noah lost his wife or any of his sons. In fact, all other accounts report that everyone came out of the ark safely afterwards. When Mohammed was challenged about whether or not his accounts agreed with the Bible, he would defend himself by saying that the Bible was "corrupted". That was easier than admitting that he was wrong and had gotten his details mixed up. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has confirmed the fact that the Old Testament was reliably translated, and that there is no so-called "corruption" of the Old Testament. Also, fragments of the New Testament were found there, and another fragment found elsewhere has been reliably dated around 50 AD, as well as entire texts of the New Testament which have been found in ancient sites with other ancient copies. There is no evidence of "corruption" in the New Testament either. The Muslims repeat the charge of Mohammed against the Bible, not understanding that the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other ancient discoveries in the Middle East, confirm that the entire Bible has been reliably translated down to the present time, and that there is no "corruption" of the Bible. The truth is that Mohammed made up this false charge in order to cover for himself when he couldn't keep his facts straight about all the different Bible stories he heard from the Jews and Christians. Mohammed claimed that Jesus never died on the cross and was never resurrected. Bishop Polycarp, venerated by all of ancient Christianity because he was the last bishop alive who had been ordained by the Apostles, knew most of the Apostles personally, and had interviewed many of the 500 witnesses who had seen Jesus Christ alive again after being crucified, dead, and buried for three days. He was martyred for the Christian faith around 160 AD. The Roman authority at Smyrna, before the whole population in the Roman stadium, offered to spare Bishop Polycarp's life if he would deny his claims about Jesus Christ. Polycarp stated that he could not deny what he had known all his life to be true, so he was executed by the state for admitting that Jesus had resurrected from the dead and was the prophesied Son of God sent as the Savior for the whole human race, even for the Muslims and Jews who have too much personal pride to admit that Jesus might really be the Savior for mankind. He was the only religious leader ever witnessed by 500 people or more to have arisen from the dead after three days, proving He had power over death. Mohammed never resurrected from the dead, but will face God as judge someday and try to explain why he, Mohammed, rejected Jesus Christ and created a new religion dedicated to destroying with the sword all Christians and Jews, if they could get away with it. Many statements of Mohammed have been disproved by science, by archaeology, by history, by medicine, and by the reliably translated Bible. Yet the Muslims assert the reason why they know that Mohammed is the true prophet of God, whom they claim is named Allah, because he never made an error in any statement he ever made for the Muslim faith. His infallibility in all statements is what proves he was a genuine prophet. Muslims will violently oppose, even to the point of murder, anyone who begins to check out whether or not the many claims of Mohammed match the known facts.

DIFFERENT WORDS - DIFFERENT MEANINGS
The Muslims currently have a book out which claims there are 50,000 errors in the Bible. But when you talk to Muslims you begin to realize that they don't understand the meaning of the word "sin", as well as many other important words in the Bible. Muslims don't have the cultural background necessary to understand many things written in the Bible. They could just as easily imagine 50 million errors as 50 thousand errors in the Bible because they don't understand what the Bible is really saying. You may translate the Bible into their language word for word, but the meanings they attach to these words in their language are many times completely different than ours. Words like "sin" and "blood atonement" are so alien in meaning to them they might as well be spoken by visitors from another planet. They don't understand the basic principles of Christianity, therefore they cannot understand the Bible, and with typical Middle East pride will never admit they don't understand. In most other parts of the world, if people don't understand something they freely enough admit it, ask questions, learn, and pretty soon they do understand what they previously did not. They are not offended in their pride to the point that they can't seek after knowledge and truth which may help them. Yet in the Middle East, they think it is a personal attack on them to say they don't know everything. But they have had to swallow their pride in order to study western technology about how to build nuclear bombs and missles, seeing that the West has military technology too powerful for them to fight unless they can learn how we of the scientific western world do all this.

$ FINANCING ISLAM $
Saudi Arabian oil money is pushing the Muslim faith hard in America, Africa and Europe. Their boast is that they will win many countries from within by converting them to the Muslim faith. Yet Christians in America, Africa, Europe and the Middle East are going to continue telling the truth about Islam, reprinting this report and others like it. Huge multitudes of Muslims throughout the world are going to realize that they are following a false prophet and that it's time to get serious about finding out how to get to the real Heaven, instead of spending all eternity in Hell because they were deceived into worshipping the pagan mood-god called Allah. The Muslims think they are very clever in their attempts to take over other countries for Islam. And because of their unlimited supply of oil money, they have made many inroads into lands where the Muslim faith had never been heard of before. The sacred book of Islam, the Koran, teaches that Muslims have the right to lie, cheat, deceive and murder in order to advance the Muslim faith. Muslim oil money financed the genocide of 300,000 Ugandans under Idi Amin as he pretended conversion to Islam. More recently Muslim extremists crucified 16,000 or more people living in Sudan when they refused to convert to the Muslim faith. In every country where Muslims gain control of the government, terrible persecution becomes the rule for Christians. For example, Muslims in Egypt would love to kill the millions of coptic Christians who also live there. What is their crime? They refuse to convert to Islam so they must die. In most Muslim countries it is forbidden to witness for Christ, and many carry the death penalty for those caught trying to spread Christainity. Through this type of ruthless oppression they have succeeded in keeping millions of people bound in darkness as slaves to Islam. Let this be a warning to those countries where Muslims are currently agitating for control. History has proven that nothing but persecution, violence and bloodshed follow a Muslim takeover until all of their enemies are exterminated and they establish the "peace" of Allah's kingdom. We believe that a religion which continues to act like something out of the Dark Ages of mankind, or like a brutal barbarian movement claiming to be the religion of the only true god, should be exposed to the whole world for its bloodthirsty attitude and wicked desire to murder everyone in the entire world who will not convert to the Muslim faith. They would love to acquire enough military technology, nuclear weapons and biological/chemical weapons to threaten the rest of the world into submission. If they can get enough powerful, modern weapons, their desire is to spread the Muslim faith by force, waging a "holy war" of extermination until all who won't convert to Islam are wiped out.

MOHAMMED - BLACK OR WHITE?
The Muslims, in their game of subversion, assure the Blacks that their Mohammed was a black man. They are pulling a shrewd con game on the Blacks, because in Sahik Al Bukhary Vol. 1, no. 63, we read, "...who amongst you is Mohammed?" We replied, "this white man..." In Volume 2 Hadith No. 122, Mohammed is referred to as a "white person". Mohammed referred to Blacks as slaves and even owned several himself. Bilal, Abu Hurairah, Usamah, Ebn Zaayed, and a "Ghullaam" (youth) named Rabbah, were among Mohammed's slaves. Even in modern times, the common word of Islam in Saudi Arabia for "black" is "abd", meaning slave. When Mohammed was alive, one Muslim gave a Black slave his freedom. Mohammed seized the boy, auctioned him as a slave and sold him for 800 derhams to Na-eem Ebn Abdullah Al-Nahham (Sahih Moslem Vol. 7, pg. 83). Mohammed referred to Blacks as "raisin heads" (Sahih Al Bukhary Vol. 1, No. 662 and Vol. 9, No. 246). He also made other crude comments about Blacks showing his utter contempt for them. Some of these quotes are really bad! For Blacks who think that the Muslim faith is their friend, I would ask them who do they think the first slave traders were? For centuries Muslim slavers rounded the Blacks up from all over Africa, killing any who resisted, and then sold them into bondage around the world.

DID YOU KNOW THAT....
Muslims may not have Christians or Jews for friends (Sura 5:54). To oppose Islam is punishable by either death, crucifixion, cutting off of the hands and feet, or exile from the land (Sura 5:36). In Muslim dominated countries there are no opposition parties allowed (Surah 4:59), and no separation between church and state (Surah 2:193). Under Islam a man may beat his wife (Surah 4:34). A Muslim who converts to Christianity must be killed (Sura 9:12). The Koran of Mohammed teaches that the Muslims should be patient and courteous with the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) when the Muslims are weak. But once they are strong, then they may act as described in Sura 2:191, which tells them to "Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out..." Muslims are bound to follow the example of Mohammed who changed his position from one of acquiesence to one of attack as soon as he became strong enough to launch the Gihad (holy war). In light of these points, you can better understand why Muslims bomb planes and buildings, issue murder contracts before the entire world, and continue to execute hundreds of thousands of people right through 1995 who will not convert to the Muslim faith, or who are found converting Muslims to another faith. The Koran teaches the Muslims a religion of violence and hatred towards all those who are not children of "Allah", a bloody religion which, if able, will put to the sword any who stand in its way!

Islam Unveiled
by Dr. Robert A. Morey
The Scholars Press, Box 290, Shermans Dale, PA 17090

THE CULT OF THE MOON-GOD
Pre-Islamic Origins of Allah
It will come as a surprise to many Muslims and Non-muslims alike that the word "Allah" was not something invented by Muhammed or revealed for the first time in the Quran. The well known Middle Eastern scholar H. Gibb, pointed out that the reason that Muhammed never had to explain who "Allah" was in the Quran was that his listeners had already heard about Allah long before Muhammed was ever born.1 Dr. Arthur Jeffery, who was one of the foremost Western Islamic scholars in modern times and Professor of Islamic and Middle East Studies at Columbia Univ., pointed out that, "The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in Pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa."2 The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, "al-ilah". The "al" is the definite article "the" and the word "ilah" is an Arabic word for "god". It is not a foreign word. It was not even the Syriac word for God. It is pure Arabic.3 Neither is "Allah" a Hebrew or Greek word for God as found in the Bible. Allah is an Arabic term used in reference to an Arabian deity. Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics states, ""Allah" is a proper name, applicable only to their (i.e. Arab) peculiar God."4 According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, ""Allah" is a pre-Islamic name....corresponding to the Babylonian Bel."5 Due to past experiences with recalcitrant students who found it hard to believe that "Allah" was a pagan name for a peculiar pagan Arabian deity in pre-Islamic times, the following citations are given. "Allah is found...in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam." (Encyclopedia Britannica)6 "The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fasion, a supreme god called allah." (The Encyplopedia of Islam, ed. Houtsma)7 "Allah was known to pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities." (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb)8 "The name Allah goes back before Muhammed." (Encyclopedia of World Mythology And Legend)10 "The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god", and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity." (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics)11 To the testimony of the above standard reference works, we add those of such scholars as Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University who said, "Allah was already known by name to the Arabs."12 Dr. Kenneth Cragg, who was the editor of the prestigious scholarly journal "Muslim World" and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works were generally published by Oxford University, comments, "The name Allah is also evident in archeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia."13 Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic studies at Edinburgh University and visiting Professor of Islamic studies at College de France, Georgetown University and University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes that, "In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammed and the origins of Islam, great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god."14 Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying, "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews."15

ASTRAL RELIGIONS
According to Middle East scholar E.M. Wherry, whose translation of the Quran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times, Allah-worship, as well as Baal-worship, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon and the stars.16 In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars such as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah!17 The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god versus other titles that could be given to him. Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun-goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. The "daughters of Allah", along with Allah and the sun-goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities. Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Allah". 18

THE CRESCENT MOON SYMBOL
The symbol of the worship of the moon god in Arabian culture and elsewhere throughout the Middle East was the crescent moon. Archeologists have uncovered numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on top of the head of the deity to symbolize the worship of the moon god. The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammed was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between them and Allah. The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The literal Arabic name of Muhammed's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was literally Obied-Allah. Thus the very names of his father and his uncle revealed the personal devotion that Muhammed's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god.

PRAYING TOWARD MECCA
Before Islam came to power an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols. The pre-Islamic pagans prayed toward Mecca and the Kabah because that was where their gods were stationed. It only made sense to them to face in the direction of their gods and then pray. Since the idols of their god were Mecca, they prayed toward Mecca. It is also interesting to note that the worship of the moon god was far more widespread than just the Allah worship in Arabia. The entire fertile crescent was involved in the worship of the moon. This, in part, explains the early success of Islam among Arab groups that had traditionally worshipped the moon god. The use of the crescent moon as the symbol for Islam which is often placed on the top of mosques and minarets is no doubt a throwback to the days when Allah was worshipped as the moon god at the Kabah in Mecca. It is not just a symbol of the feast of Ramadan. While this may come as a surprise to many Christians who have wrongly assumed that Allah was simply another name for the God of the Bible, many educated Muslims generally understand this point.

CONCLUSION
In the field of comparative religions, it is understood that each of the major religions of mankind has its own peculiar concept of deity. In other words, all religions DO NOT worship the same God, just under different names. The sloppy thinking that would allow this type of uninformed assumption would ignore the essential differences which divide world religions and is an insult to the uniqueness of world religions. Which of the world religions holds to the Christian concept of one eternal God in three persons? When the Hindu denies the personality of God, how many religions will agree with them? Obviously, all men DO NOT worship the same God, just under different names. The Quran's concept of deity evolved out of a pre-Islamic pagan religion. It is so uniquely Arabian that it cannot be simply attributed to Jewish or Christian beliefs. Islam, as we know it today, is rooted in the pagan cult of the moon god.
http://aggressivechristianity.net/islam/bloody.htm

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said in his letter to the Roman governor Heracles: “I invite you to accept Islam. If you accept Islam, you will find safety. If you accept Islam, Allah will give you a double reward. However, if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.” [Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim]

Once people have heard the Message without obstruction or hindrance and the proof has been established upon them, then the duty of the Muslims is done. Those who wish to believe are free to do so and those who prefer to disbelieve are likewise free to do so.

“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But fight them not at the sacred mosque unless they fight you there. But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.” [Sûrah al-Baqarah: 190-193]
**************************************************

The people being referred to by this verse are the pagan Arabs who had been waging war against the Prophet (peace be upon him) and who had broken their covenant and treaties with him. This verse is not speaking about the other pagan Arabs who did not break their treaties and take up arms against the Muslims. It is also most definitely not speaking about the Jews or Christians, or, for that matter, the pagans who were living outside of Arabia.

Sorry sir but your very long post is derailing the thread!

Thank you sir!

folafola: It is, of course, well-known that Islam alone, among the major non-Christian religions, arose after the emergence of Christianity. Most Muslims would deny this and would say that Islam has always been the religion of the righteous man. They would claim, for example, that Abraham and even Adam were Muslims. Nevertheless it remains true that the religion of Islam as we know it, with its sacred book, its law and many of its cultic features, began at a definite historical time (approximately AD 560-632, the lifetime of the prophet of Islam) and is particularly tied up with with life of a particular person named Mohammed and the community which he founded. The Cult Of The Moon God ''ALLAH''

In the 1950's archaeology disproved the Muslim faith. A major temple to the Moon-god was excavated at Hazor in Palestine. This important discovery of science is recorded in "The Moon-god Allah in the archaeology of the Middle East" by Dr. Robert A. Morey. Two idols of the Moon-god Allah were found, proving that the Allah which Muslims around the world worship as the only true God was a pre-Islamic pagan deity! Photos at the escavation of Allah sitting on a throne show the crescent moon, the symbol of the Islamic faith. Yet these Moon-god statues were made long before the Islamic faith was founded. With this in mind, let's look at a brief history of Islam. Sometime near the middle of the sixth century AD Mohammed, the yet to be Prophet of Islam, went to the city of Mecca, Arabia, where was located a pagan temple called the Kabah which housed 360 idols, including the Moon-god Allah! Mohammed was forced to flee Mecca with his small band of followers when his religious teachings were rejected there. He wanted to create his own religion and went to the Sabeans in Arabia who worshipped the three daughters of Allah, three idols to demon goddesses. Upon coming to the city of Al Medina, he declared that he was the Prophet of Allah sent to them. They militarily followed him, and by the sword they converted Arabia to the new Muslim faith, killing all who refused to convert to Islam. Violence has plagued Islam from its very inception, and as the new leader of the Muslim faith, Mohammed did not hesitate to rob and kill as a way of life. Concerning Mohammed's private life, he had a large harem, and at one time he even took away the wife of his adopted son and had sex with her when she was a child of only nine years old.

IS MOHAMMED INFALLIBLE?
According to the Muslim faith, Mohammed is infallible and you cannot doubt anything he ever said. For example, in Hadith 543-Vol. 4, it is stated by Mohammed that the earth is flat, not round, and has to be balanced by the mountains. Furthermore, when the sun goes down each night, it goes into a muddy spring according to Mohammed in Sahih 41:9-10. That, of course is contrary to what we have learned through science, yet Mohammed is right and science is wrong, at least according to the Muslim faith! Our first Adam was 90 feet tall according to Mohammed in Hadith 543-Vol. 4, and the angel Gabrieth has 600 wings according to Mohammed in Hadith 380-Vol. 6. Mohammed always had to have much bigger stories and alleged miracles than those contained in the Bible. Did you know that according to Mohammed Satan resides in the upper part of your nose at night, that dirty booger, so it's best to blow him out with some water up your nose in the morning! (Get serious! Some people still believe this!) Hadith 516-Vol. 4. Did you know that even though Alexander the Great was a recorded pagan who died hundreds of years before Mohammed's time, Mohammed claimed that he was a Muslim! And to top it off, Mohammed claimed that drinking camel urine will make you healthy! (Hadith Vol. 7:590) How many modern Muslims partake of that pearl of wisdom? The Koran, authored by Mohammed, states that Haman was Pharaoh's minister (cf. Suras 28, 5:29, 38:40, 25:38). Both Jewish and Christian scholars agree that only an ignorant man could have made this statement. Haman was the minister in the court of Persia, not Egypt. Joseph was the minister in Pharaoh's court. Mohammed got a number of Bible stories mixed up in their details. There were many Jews and Christians where Mohammed lived and he heard these Bible stories from them, he then somehow got his facts mixed up for these stories. Mohammed heard of the miracles of Jesus, and not to be outdone, he told his followers of miracles he had done which were greater than those of Jesus. Whatever Jesus did, he told his followers how he had done greater, greater miracles than Jesus. He told them of how he had ridden a unicorn through the air. He had many amazing, miraculous stories he told his followers. Mohammed told them how the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus, was the sister of Aaron (Sura 19:28) and daughter of 'Imran' (Amram) (Sura 66:12) and hence identical with Miriam the sister of Moses and Aaron. Mohammed missed this reference by maybe 1,400 to 1,500 years in light of Bible history! Jesus and Moses did not live a few years apart from each other, but would have had to if Mohammed were correct.

MORE CONFUSION!
Mohammed also stated that the wife and one son of Noah died in the world flood. Nearly 200 ancient civilizations have this universal story of the great world flood, with this strange man who entered a big boat with a lot of animals to save them. In none of these accounts, nor the Bible account, does it report that Noah lost his wife or any of his sons. In fact, all other accounts report that everyone came out of the ark safely afterwards. When Mohammed was challenged about whether or not his accounts agreed with the Bible, he would defend himself by saying that the Bible was "corrupted". That was easier than admitting that he was wrong and had gotten his details mixed up. The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has confirmed the fact that the Old Testament was reliably translated, and that there is no so-called "corruption" of the Old Testament. Also, fragments of the New Testament were found there, and another fragment found elsewhere has been reliably dated around 50 AD, as well as entire texts of the New Testament which have been found in ancient sites with other ancient copies. There is no evidence of "corruption" in the New Testament either. The Muslims repeat the charge of Mohammed against the Bible, not understanding that the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other ancient discoveries in the Middle East, confirm that the entire Bible has been reliably translated down to the present time, and that there is no "corruption" of the Bible. The truth is that Mohammed made up this false charge in order to cover for himself when he couldn't keep his facts straight about all the different Bible stories he heard from the Jews and Christians. Mohammed claimed that Jesus never died on the cross and was never resurrected. Bishop Polycarp, venerated by all of ancient Christianity because he was the last bishop alive who had been ordained by the Apostles, knew most of the Apostles personally, and had interviewed many of the 500 witnesses who had seen Jesus Christ alive again after being crucified, dead, and buried for three days. He was martyred for the Christian faith around 160 AD. The Roman authority at Smyrna, before the whole population in the Roman stadium, offered to spare Bishop Polycarp's life if he would deny his claims about Jesus Christ. Polycarp stated that he could not deny what he had known all his life to be true, so he was executed by the state for admitting that Jesus had resurrected from the dead and was the prophesied Son of God sent as the Savior for the whole human race, even for the Muslims and Jews who have too much personal pride to admit that Jesus might really be the Savior for mankind. He was the only religious leader ever witnessed by 500 people or more to have arisen from the dead after three days, proving He had power over death. Mohammed never resurrected from the dead, but will face God as judge someday and try to explain why he, Mohammed, rejected Jesus Christ and created a new religion dedicated to destroying with the sword all Christians and Jews, if they could get away with it. Many statements of Mohammed have been disproved by science, by archaeology, by history, by medicine, and by the reliably translated Bible. Yet the Muslims assert the reason why they know that Mohammed is the true prophet of God, whom they claim is named Allah, because he never made an error in any statement he ever made for the Muslim faith. His infallibility in all statements is what proves he was a genuine prophet. Muslims will violently oppose, even to the point of murder, anyone who begins to check out whether or not the many claims of Mohammed match the known facts.

DIFFERENT WORDS - DIFFERENT MEANINGS
The Muslims currently have a book out which claims there are 50,000 errors in the Bible. But when you talk to Muslims you begin to realize that they don't understand the meaning of the word "sin", as well as many other important words in the Bible. Muslims don't have the cultural background necessary to understand many things written in the Bible. They could just as easily imagine 50 million errors as 50 thousand errors in the Bible because they don't understand what the Bible is really saying. You may translate the Bible into their language word for word, but the meanings they attach to these words in their language are many times completely different than ours. Words like "sin" and "blood atonement" are so alien in meaning to them they might as well be spoken by visitors from another planet. They don't understand the basic principles of Christianity, therefore they cannot understand the Bible, and with typical Middle East pride will never admit they don't understand. In most other parts of the world, if people don't understand something they freely enough admit it, ask questions, learn, and pretty soon they do understand what they previously did not. They are not offended in their pride to the point that they can't seek after knowledge and truth which may help them. Yet in the Middle East, they think it is a personal attack on them to say they don't know everything. But they have had to swallow their pride in order to study western technology about how to build nuclear bombs and missles, seeing that the West has military technology too powerful for them to fight unless they can learn how we of the scientific western world do all this.

$ FINANCING ISLAM $
Saudi Arabian oil money is pushing the Muslim faith hard in America, Africa and Europe. Their boast is that they will win many countries from within by converting them to the Muslim faith. Yet Christians in America, Africa, Europe and the Middle East are going to continue telling the truth about Islam, reprinting this report and others like it. Huge multitudes of Muslims throughout the world are going to realize that they are following a false prophet and that it's time to get serious about finding out how to get to the real Heaven, instead of spending all eternity in Hell because they were deceived into worshipping the pagan mood-god called Allah. The Muslims think they are very clever in their attempts to take over other countries for Islam. And because of their unlimited supply of oil money, they have made many inroads into lands where the Muslim faith had never been heard of before. The sacred book of Islam, the Koran, teaches that Muslims have the right to lie, cheat, deceive and murder in order to advance the Muslim faith. Muslim oil money financed the genocide of 300,000 Ugandans under Idi Amin as he pretended conversion to Islam. More recently Muslim extremists crucified 16,000 or more people living in Sudan when they refused to convert to the Muslim faith. In every country where Muslims gain control of the government, terrible persecution becomes the rule for Christians. For example, Muslims in Egypt would love to kill the millions of coptic Christians who also live there. What is their crime? They refuse to convert to Islam so they must die. In most Muslim countries it is forbidden to witness for Christ, and many carry the death penalty for those caught trying to spread Christainity. Through this type of ruthless oppression they have succeeded in keeping millions of people bound in darkness as slaves to Islam. Let this be a warning to those countries where Muslims are currently agitating for control. History has proven that nothing but persecution, violence and bloodshed follow a Muslim takeover until all of their enemies are exterminated and they establish the "peace" of Allah's kingdom. We believe that a religion which continues to act like something out of the Dark Ages of mankind, or like a brutal barbarian movement claiming to be the religion of the only true god, should be exposed to the whole world for its bloodthirsty attitude and wicked desire to murder everyone in the entire world who will not convert to the Muslim faith. They would love to acquire enough military technology, nuclear weapons and biological/chemical weapons to threaten the rest of the world into submission. If they can get enough powerful, modern weapons, their desire is to spread the Muslim faith by force, waging a "holy war" of extermination until all who won't convert to Islam are wiped out.

MOHAMMED - BLACK OR WHITE?
The Muslims, in their game of subversion, assure the Blacks that their Mohammed was a black man. They are pulling a shrewd con game on the Blacks, because in Sahik Al Bukhary Vol. 1, no. 63, we read, "...who amongst you is Mohammed?" We replied, "this white man..." In Volume 2 Hadith No. 122, Mohammed is referred to as a "white person". Mohammed referred to Blacks as slaves and even owned several himself. Bilal, Abu Hurairah, Usamah, Ebn Zaayed, and a "Ghullaam" (youth) named Rabbah, were among Mohammed's slaves. Even in modern times, the common word of Islam in Saudi Arabia for "black" is "abd", meaning slave. When Mohammed was alive, one Muslim gave a Black slave his freedom. Mohammed seized the boy, auctioned him as a slave and sold him for 800 derhams to Na-eem Ebn Abdullah Al-Nahham (Sahih Moslem Vol. 7, pg. 83). Mohammed referred to Blacks as "raisin heads" (Sahih Al Bukhary Vol. 1, No. 662 and Vol. 9, No. 246). He also made other crude comments about Blacks showing his utter contempt for them. Some of these quotes are really bad! For Blacks who think that the Muslim faith is their friend, I would ask them who do they think the first slave traders were? For centuries Muslim slavers rounded the Blacks up from all over Africa, killing any who resisted, and then sold them into bondage around the world.

DID YOU KNOW THAT....
Muslims may not have Christians or Jews for friends (Sura 5:54). To oppose Islam is punishable by either death, crucifixion, cutting off of the hands and feet, or exile from the land (Sura 5:36). In Muslim dominated countries there are no opposition parties allowed (Surah 4:59), and no separation between church and state (Surah 2:193). Under Islam a man may beat his wife (Surah 4:34). A Muslim who converts to Christianity must be killed (Sura 9:12). The Koran of Mohammed teaches that the Muslims should be patient and courteous with the people of the Book (Christians and Jews) when the Muslims are weak. But once they are strong, then they may act as described in Sura 2:191, which tells them to "Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out..." Muslims are bound to follow the example of Mohammed who changed his position from one of acquiesence to one of attack as soon as he became strong enough to launch the Gihad (holy war). In light of these points, you can better understand why Muslims bomb planes and buildings, issue murder contracts before the entire world, and continue to execute hundreds of thousands of people right through 1995 who will not convert to the Muslim faith, or who are found converting Muslims to another faith. The Koran teaches the Muslims a religion of violence and hatred towards all those who are not children of "Allah", a bloody religion which, if able, will put to the sword any who stand in its way!

Islam Unveiled
by Dr. Robert A. Morey
The Scholars Press, Box 290, Shermans Dale, PA 17090

THE CULT OF THE MOON-GOD
Pre-Islamic Origins of Allah
It will come as a surprise to many Muslims and Non-muslims alike that the word "Allah" was not something invented by Muhammed or revealed for the first time in the Quran. The well known Middle Eastern scholar H. Gibb, pointed out that the reason that Muhammed never had to explain who "Allah" was in the Quran was that his listeners had already heard about Allah long before Muhammed was ever born.1 Dr. Arthur Jeffery, who was one of the foremost Western Islamic scholars in modern times and Professor of Islamic and Middle East Studies at Columbia Univ., pointed out that, "The name Allah, as the Quran itself is witness, was well known in Pre-Islamic Arabia. Indeed, both it and its feminine form, Allat, are found not infrequently among the theophorous names in inscriptions from North Africa."2 The word "Allah" comes from the compound Arabic word, "al-ilah". The "al" is the definite article "the" and the word "ilah" is an Arabic word for "god". It is not a foreign word. It was not even the Syriac word for God. It is pure Arabic.3 Neither is "Allah" a Hebrew or Greek word for God as found in the Bible. Allah is an Arabic term used in reference to an Arabian deity. Hastings' Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics states, ""Allah" is a proper name, applicable only to their (i.e. Arab) peculiar God."4 According to the Encyclopedia of Religion, ""Allah" is a pre-Islamic name....corresponding to the Babylonian Bel."5 Due to past experiences with recalcitrant students who found it hard to believe that "Allah" was a pagan name for a peculiar pagan Arabian deity in pre-Islamic times, the following citations are given. "Allah is found...in Arabic inscriptions prior to Islam." (Encyclopedia Britannica)6 "The Arabs, before the time of Mohammed, accepted and worshipped, after a fasion, a supreme god called allah." (The Encyplopedia of Islam, ed. Houtsma)7 "Allah was known to pre-Islamic Arabs; he was one of the Meccan deities." (Encyclopedia of Islam, ed. Gibb)8 "The name Allah goes back before Muhammed." (Encyclopedia of World Mythology And Legend)10 "The origin of this (Allah) goes back to pre-Muslim times. Allah is not a common name meaning "God" (or a "god", and the Muslim must use another word or form if he wishes to indicate any other than his own peculiar deity." (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics)11 To the testimony of the above standard reference works, we add those of such scholars as Henry Preserved Smith of Harvard University who said, "Allah was already known by name to the Arabs."12 Dr. Kenneth Cragg, who was the editor of the prestigious scholarly journal "Muslim World" and an outstanding modern Western Islamic scholar, whose works were generally published by Oxford University, comments, "The name Allah is also evident in archeological and literary remains of pre-Islamic Arabia."13 Dr. W. Montgomery Watt, who was Professor of Arabic and Islamic studies at Edinburgh University and visiting Professor of Islamic studies at College de France, Georgetown University and University of Toronto, has done extensive work on the pre-Islamic concept of Allah. He concludes that, "In recent years I have become increasingly convinced that for an adequate understanding of the career of Muhammed and the origins of Islam, great importance must be attached to the existence in Mecca of belief in Allah as a "high god."14 Caesar Farah in his book on Islam concludes his discussion of the pre-Islamic meaning of Allah by saying, "There is no reason, therefore, to accept the idea that Allah passed to the Muslims from the Christians and Jews."15

ASTRAL RELIGIONS
According to Middle East scholar E.M. Wherry, whose translation of the Quran is still used today, in pre-Islamic times, Allah-worship, as well as Baal-worship, were both astral religions in that they involved the worship of the sun, the moon and the stars.16 In Arabia, the sun god was viewed as a female goddess and the moon as the male god. As has been pointed out by many scholars such as Alfred Guilluame, the moon god was called by various names, one of which was Allah!17 The name Allah was used as the personal name of the moon god versus other titles that could be given to him. Allah, the moon god, was married to the sun-goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah." These three goddesses were called Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat. The "daughters of Allah", along with Allah and the sun-goddess were viewed as "high" gods. That is, they were viewed as being at the top of the pantheon of Arabian deities. Along with Allah, however, they worshipped a host of lesser gods and "daughters of Allah". 18

THE CRESCENT MOON SYMBOL
The symbol of the worship of the moon god in Arabian culture and elsewhere throughout the Middle East was the crescent moon. Archeologists have uncovered numerous statues and hieroglyphic inscriptions in which a crescent moon was seated on top of the head of the deity to symbolize the worship of the moon god. The Quraysh tribe into which Muhammed was born was particularly devoted to Allah, the moon god and especially to Allah's three daughters who were viewed as intercessors between them and Allah. The worship of the three goddesses, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat played a significant role in the worship at the Kabah in Mecca. The literal Arabic name of Muhammed's father was Abd-Allah. His uncle's name was literally Obied-Allah. Thus the very names of his father and his uncle revealed the personal devotion that Muhammed's pagan family had to the worship of Allah, the moon god.

PRAYING TOWARD MECCA
Before Islam came to power an Allah idol was set up at the Kabah along with all the other idols. The pre-Islamic pagans prayed toward Mecca and the Kabah because that was where their gods were stationed. It only made sense to them to face in the direction of their gods and then pray. Since the idols of their god were Mecca, they prayed toward Mecca. It is also interesting to note that the worship of the moon god was far more widespread than just the Allah worship in Arabia. The entire fertile crescent was involved in the worship of the moon. This, in part, explains the early success of Islam among Arab groups that had traditionally worshipped the moon god. The use of the crescent moon as the symbol for Islam which is often placed on the top of mosques and minarets is no doubt a throwback to the days when Allah was worshipped as the moon god at the Kabah in Mecca. It is not just a symbol of the feast of Ramadan. While this may come as a surprise to many Christians who have wrongly assumed that Allah was simply another name for the God of the Bible, many educated Muslims generally understand this point.

CONCLUSION
In the field of comparative religions, it is understood that each of the major religions of mankind has its own peculiar concept of deity. In other words, all religions DO NOT worship the same God, just under different names. The sloppy thinking that would allow this type of uninformed assumption would ignore the essential differences which divide world religions and is an insult to the uniqueness of world religions. Which of the world religions holds to the Christian concept of one eternal God in three persons? When the Hindu denies the personality of God, how many religions will agree with them? Obviously, all men DO NOT worship the same God, just under different names. The Quran's concept of deity evolved out of a pre-Islamic pagan religion. It is so uniquely Arabian that it cannot be simply attributed to Jewish or Christian beliefs. Islam, as we know it today, is rooted in the pagan cult of the moon god.
http://aggressivechristianity.net/islam/bloody.htm

folafola:

Your post is lengthy, but it is written by people who set out to mislead
1. No matter what that "aggressive Christianity says" I know that a white, black, yellow muslim IS NOT BETTER than me because of his skin colour. He is only better if HE OBEYS Allah more than me
2. Muslims don't compare Prophets (PBUH). We just obey and relate what we are told
3. The Bible that Mohammed (PBUH)) is supposed to copy disgraces a lot of Prophets (PBUH). Joseph's father cried, tore his clothes and mourned for days. That is the Bible version. The version in the Qur'an is more dignifying. He told the sons that he did not believe their story and that he would be patient

babyosisi:

What are we talking pork?
I am talking about adultery and stoning
Is it written in the Oran or not?
Simple question

Good point
1. Bring another hadith of that class
2. And bring a hadith that is relevant to this topic that permits suicide. I am ready to pay if you are able to do so