Madam Plappville, Praise God for this detailed explanation. According to the book of Revelation severally, the bible says he who has an ear let him hear what the spirit is saying...

@plappvile
I am not sure why you felt it necessary to quote all the above verses because I did not say paul invented Jesus neither did I say he was not the messiah.

pauline Christianity:
"In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Atoner. What Martin Luther. in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
- theologian Soren Kierkegaard, writing in The Journals.

I think Paul must have said some things that shook the core of Islam and other sects like Mormonism, reason why so much antagonism against him as an Apostle of God.


Colossians 2:18

18 Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit,

Galatians 1:8-9

8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to and different from that which we preached to you, let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!
9 As we said before, so I now say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from or contrary to that which you received [from us], let him be accursed (anathema, devoted to destruction, doomed to eternal punishment)!

proo212: I think Paul must have said some things that shook the core of Islam...

no, paul said a lot things that shook the core of the christianity of Jesus Christ.

"The writings of Paul have been a danger and a hidden rock. the causes of the principal defects of Christian theology."
- writes theologian Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul.


Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
- Soren Kierkegaard, The Journals.

Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize, has been called "one of the greatest Christians of his time." He was a philosopher, physician, musician, clergyman, missionary, and theologian. In his The Quest for the Historical Jesus and his Mysticism of Paul he writes: "Paul....did not desire to know Christ....Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded....What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?....The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority....The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."   

F00028: @plappvile
I am not sure why you felt it necessary to quote all the above verses because I did not say paul invented Jesus neither did I say he was not the messiah.

pauline Christianity:
"In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Atoner. What Martin Luther. in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
- theologian Soren Kierkegaard, writing in The Journals.

These verses were very necessery, they contradicts the Quran denies of Jesus death for mankind.
The quran did says that Jesus did not die.This contradicts the OLD prophets. And if you note very well, you will see that the
Quran contradicted itself, by saying Jesus was not killed, but was raised to God, but atsame time, Isa said He died in the quran.

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
—Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158[1]

This same quran says the opposite that Jesus Himself said He died.
19:33 Maryam "So peace is on me the day I(Jesus) was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (Islam Isa is speaking)

And does this below not state that God caused Jesus to die?

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

This sounds like He died as well. He spoke of respect of: Birth, Death, Ressurection.
So if he just disappeared according to the quran, when will He die? That doesn't make any sense.
Will he die in his(2nd coming)?

If Jesus repeated and reminded His disciples what was said by the prophets concerning him, why should Muhammed say the opposite?

Luke 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Isaiah 53 That Predicted Jesus coming, His dieing for our sins, How he will be rejected etc etc which was fulfilled by Jesus was completely rejected by Muhammed. This made Him a false prophet.

F00028:

no, paul said a lot things that shook the core of the christianity of Jesus Christ.

"The writings of Paul have been a danger and a hidden rock. the causes of the principal defects of Christian theology."
- writes theologian Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul.


Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
- Soren Kierkegaard, The Journals.

Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize, has been called "one of the greatest Christians of his time." He was a philosopher, physician, musician, clergyman, missionary, and theologian. In his The Quest for the Historical Jesus and his Mysticism of Paul he writes: "Paul....did not desire to know Christ....Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded....What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?....The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority....The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."   

Remove Paul from this first. Go to the old testamen, thesame Book Jesus used during and you will see that the Quran contradicts the OLD prophets. And besides, Paul was a confirmed Apostle of Jesus. He wouldn't have suceeded if not God that choosed him.

Acts 13:1-3

"[1] In the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch) and Saul. [2] While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them." [3] So after they had fasted and prayed, they placed their hands on them and sent them off."

We also find that the authority and ministry that God gave to Paul was also,CONFIRMED BY OTHER APOSTLES.

Galatians 2:1-10"[1] Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. [2] I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles. But I did this privately to those who seemed to be leaders, for fear that I was running or had run my race in vain. [3] Yet not even Titus, who was with me, was compelled to be circumcised, even though he was a Greek. [4] This matter arose because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves. [5] We did not give in to them for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you. [6] As for those who seemed to be important--whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance--those men added nothing to my message. [7] On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews. [8] For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. [9] James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. [10] All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do."

proo212: I think Paul must have said some things that shook the core of Islam and other sects like Mormonism, reason why so much antagonism against him as an Apostle of God.


Colossians 2:18


Galatians 1:8-9

Very true, they can only accused Paul for thier failure to obey the Old prophets. Why should Muhammed go against the fact that Jesus was killed? according to the prophey?? i no know for him!

proo212: Madam Plappville, Praise God for this detailed explanation. According to the book of Revelation severally, the bible says he who has an ear let him hear what the spirit is saying...

Yes oo, we shouldn't allow ourselves to be decieved by some unstable faible stories!

plappville:
Isaiah 53 That Predicted Jesus coming, His dieing for our sins, How he will be rejected etc etc which was fulfilled by Jesus was completely rejected by Muhammed. This made Him a false prophet.

really now? have you actually ever read Isaiah 53?

Isaiah 53 speaks of a man who was despised by mankind, had “no form nor comeliness”; who was wounded for our transgressions; who said not a word; and was buried with the wicked and the rich… etc

But…according to your bible Jesus had followers who loved him (to this day there are 1.5 billion of us muslims who love him not despise him);

-you claim Jesus was not merely wounded for our transgressions he was killed;

-Jesus did speak-he spoke to the jews, to pilate and on the cross; and

- he not was buried and even f you can call it that, he was alone!

Isaiah 53 also says God will prolong his life and he will live to even see his offspring:

Did the biblical Jesus have a wife (s) and kids?

plappville:
This same quran says the opposite that Jesus Himself said He died.
19:33 Maryam "So peace is on me the day I(Jesus) was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (Islam Isa is speaking)

come one plappville!
he didn't say, he died! he said, "the day that I die..."
dont you read the stuff you copy and paste?

Jesus Christ being that close to God knows better than anybody "every soul shall taste death" (Quran 21:35) one day, one day

besides, there's another verse like it about John the Baptist:
"So peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life" -Quran 19:15

does that say to you John the Baptist died on the cross too?

F00028:
really now? have you actually ever read Isaiah 53?
Isaiah 53 speaks of a man who was despised by mankind, had “no form nor comeliness”; who was wounded for our transgressions; who said not a word; and was buried with the wicked and the rich… etc

But…according to your bible Jesus had followers who loved him (to this day there are 1.5 billion of us muslims who love him not despise him);

-you claim Jesus was not merely wounded for our transgressions he was killed;

-Jesus did speak-he spoke to the jews, to pilate and on the cross; and

- he not was buried and even f you can call it that, he was alone!

Isaiah 53 also says God will prolong his life and he will live to even see his offspring:

Did the biblical Jesus have a wife (s) and kids?

Yes i have read it, and when you use the NT with it, you will see how perfectly this prophecy was fulfilled.
Its a prediction given by God, and written BEFORE Jesus showed up. this prophecy was written to the Jews by a
Jewish prophet named Isaiah about a later to be born Jew named Jesus. Oddly enough, the Jews hold the prophecy as being the truth,
but like the prophecy says they don't believe the person it's about. On the whole, they despise and reject Jesus just like it says they would.

God has set up Jesus and the Jews as a PROOF that only he could have predicted the events and set them up. The New Testament
says the Jews in Jerusalem will eventually see Jesus for who he is: the saviour of the world and the ARM OF GOD.

From the Old Testament Isaiah 53 (750 years before Jesus):

Let me braek it down from verse 1 so you can grab this prophecy properly.

.

Isa 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report?
certainly not the Jews... yet
and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
The ARM OF GOD 'Jesus' is revealed to those believing him.
JESUS AS THE ARM OF GOD Proof
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form
nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
The Jews rejected Jesus as not fitting their expected hopes for a messiah, Jesus came to die for our sins.
He is despised and rejected of men;
Jews rejected Jesus
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
The lame, poor, thieves, prostitutes, etc... accepted him
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
The Pharisees and Priests didn't want to associate with him due to the people he helped and due to His family poor background.
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
And most Jews still don't see Jesus for who he is.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
Jesus was heavily beaten, whipped, and died for our sins
he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The shroud shows some 140 stripes {scourging} on his body
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
Jesus likened his followers to sheep that occasionally get lost, needing a good shepherd to come find them
we have turned every one to his own way;
Sheep off getting lost
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(Again, Jesus died for the sins of the world, you and me.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
What the Romans in power and the Jews did to him prior to him dying
yet he opened not his mouth:
Jesus did not defend himself against his accusers
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
Jesus was also said to be the replacement for the sacrificial lamb used to pay for sins
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Again, Jesus would not defend himself and allowed them to kill him
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment:
It's recorded history, Jesus was taken and judged
and who shall declare his generation?
His followers declare who Jesus is
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
Jesus died
for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Lambs were and are sacrificed for sins, but Jesus has paid that price for all who accept his dying for our sins.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked,
Crucified next to two thieves
and with the rich in his death;
Jesus was buried by Joseph of Aramathea, a rich man, in a tomb originally made for Joseph of Aramathea.
because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Again, Jesus did not defend himself or lie about why he was there, they just couldn't believe him.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
Jesus is a RETURN sacrifice that matches Abraham's offer of love to God. Here God is offering his love to us.
It's an extreme amount of love to follow through with it and it made God happy to offer such and that Jesus would do it.
he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Again, Jesus died for our sins.
he shall see his seed,
Jesus himself said the "seed" are the children of God,also known initially as apostles and disciples.
he shall prolong his days, NOTE: Luke 24:39-40 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
Jesus raised from the dead, He lives
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Again, God was happy to send HIS HAND, Jesus to die for our sins. Jesus himself gave a verse set{John 10:28-30} that plainly shows Jesus
ADMITTING he's AT LEAST God's HAND.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall
my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Again, God saw Jesus do what he had set up, that Jesus would die for the sins of the world.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
Jesus said God gives followers into Jesus's hand, Jesus also said he will forgive sins for those who believe him
and also that he would divide those who believe from those who don't believe
because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
Jesus died, but later will divide the spoil with the strong
and he was numbered with the transgressors;
One of his apostles cut off the ear of the servant of the high priest when they came to arrest Jesus.
Jesus then healed the ear of the servant. Prior to that time Jesus always told his apostles to constantly
forgive, turn the other cheek, and give others as they ask. Jesus healing the servant's ear and telling the
apostle to put the sword away canceled that same evening's command to take a sword with them. It shows itwas not a sword of defense.
He even said the taking of the sword that night was to fulfill the prophecy {this very one}.
and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus Christ Jesus admitted he was sent to die for the sins of the world by just prior to allowing himself to be killed
he said:Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Further confirmation that Jesus would die for OTHERS:Mark 10:45 For the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So my broda in ADAM AND EVE, all this is fairly EASY to see once you honestly BELIEVE the New
Testament. Isaiah 53 is a PROPHECY about Jesus, written 750 years PRIOR to Jesus showing up.

God made it all, Jesus died for our sins. ISLAM missed/got it all wrong!!

plappville:
Yes i have read it, and when you use the NT with it, you will see how perfectly this prophecy was fulfilled.
Its a prediction given by God, and written BEFORE Jesus showed up. this prophecy was written to the Jews by a
Jewish prophet named Isaiah about a later to be born Jew named Jesus. Oddly enough, the Jews hold the prophecy as being the truth,
but like the prophecy says they don't believe the person it's about...

you cant really blame them because for one thing the prophesy didn't say his name will be Jesus and the description doesn't fit him.

plappville: Isa 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report?
certainly not the Jews... yet
and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
The ARM OF GOD 'Jesus' is revealed to those believing him.
JESUS AS THE ARM OF GOD Proof
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form
nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
The Jews rejected Jesus as not fitting their expected hopes for a messiah, Jesus came to die for our sins.
He is despised and rejected of men;
Jews rejected Jesus
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
The lame, poor, thieves, prostitutes, etc... accepted him
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
The Pharisees and Priests didn't want to associate with him due to the people he helped and due to His family poor background.
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
And most Jews still don't see Jesus for who he is.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
Jesus was heavily beaten, whipped, and died for our sins
he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The shroud shows some 140 stripes {scourging} on his body
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
Jesus likened his followers to sheep that occasionally get lost, needing a good shepherd to come find them
we have turned every one to his own way;
Sheep off getting lost
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(Again, Jesus died for the sins of the world, you and me.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
What the Romans in power and the Jews did to him prior to him dying
yet he opened not his mouth:
Jesus did not defend himself against his accusers
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
Jesus was also said to be the replacement for the sacrificial lamb used to pay for sins
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Again, Jesus would not defend himself and allowed them to kill him
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment:
It's recorded history, Jesus was taken and judged
and who shall declare his generation?
His followers declare who Jesus is
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
Jesus died
for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Lambs were and are sacrificed for sins, but Jesus has paid that price for all who accept his dying for our sins.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked,
Crucified next to two thieves
and with the rich in his death;
Jesus was buried by Joseph of Aramathea, a rich man, in a tomb originally made for Joseph of Aramathea.
because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Again, Jesus did not defend himself or lie about why he was there, they just couldn't believe him.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
Jesus is a RETURN sacrifice that matches Abraham's offer of love to God. Here God is offering his love to us.
It's an extreme amount of love to follow through with it and it made God happy to offer such and that Jesus would do it.
he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Again, Jesus died for our sins.
he shall see his seed,
Jesus himself said the "seed" are the children of God,also known initially as apostles and disciples.
he shall prolong his days, NOTE: Luke 24:39-40 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
Jesus raised from the dead, He lives
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Again, God was happy to send HIS HAND, Jesus to die for our sins. Jesus himself gave a verse set{John 10:28-30} that plainly shows Jesus
ADMITTING he's AT LEAST God's HAND.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall
my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Again, God saw Jesus do what he had set up, that Jesus would die for the sins of the world.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
Jesus said God gives followers into Jesus's hand, Jesus also said he will forgive sins for those who believe him
and also that he would divide those who believe from those who don't believe
because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
Jesus died, but later will divide the spoil with the strong
and he was numbered with the transgressors;
One of his apostles cut off the ear of the servant of the high priest when they came to arrest Jesus.
Jesus then healed the ear of the servant. Prior to that time Jesus always told his apostles to constantly
forgive, turn the other cheek, and give others as they ask. Jesus healing the servant's ear and telling the
apostle to put the sword away canceled that same evening's command to take a sword with them. It shows itwas not a sword of defense.
He even said the taking of the sword that night was to fulfill the prophecy {this very one}.
and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus Christ Jesus admitted he was sent to die for the sins of the world by just prior to allowing himself to be killed
he said:Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Further confirmation that Jesus would die for OTHERS:Mark 10:45 For the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So my broda in ADAM AND EVE, all this is fairly EASY to see once you honestly BELIEVE the New
Testament. Isaiah 53 is a PROPHECY about Jesus, written 750 years PRIOR to Jesus showing up.

God made it all, Jesus died for our sins. ISLAM missed/got it all wrong!!

are you for real, plappville?

F00028:
come one plappville!
he didn't say, he died! he said, "the day that I die..."
dont you read the stuff you copy and paste?

Jesus Christ being that close to God knows better than anybody "every soul shall taste death" (Quran 21:35) one day, one day

besides, there's another verse like it about John the Baptist:
"So peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life" -Quran 19:15

does that say to you John the Baptist died on the cross too?

come one plappville!
he didn't say, he died! he said, "the day that I die..."
dont you read the stuff you copy and paste?

Oh he said this and He did not die?? and when Allah also said He will cause Him to die, He didn't keep to His word?

Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

Jesus Christ being that close to God knows better than anybody "every soul shall taste death" (Quran 21:35) one day, one day

So when will ISA (JESUS) die, if accoding to the quran, he didnt test death before?

besides, there's another verse like it about John the Baptist:
"So peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life" -Quran 19:15

does that say to you John the Baptist died on the cross too?

Euhh!! i wonder why the cross was added? Yes it says and shows that John the Baptise was born and died!

F00028:

you cant really blame them because for one thing the prophesy didn't say his name will be Jesus and the description doesn't fit him.

You are behaving like the Pharisees here. The Priests and the Pharisees didn't see anything good in Jesus, He was poor looking,
He loved the mingling with the poor, sometimes, they will adress him as the Carpenters son.
They needed/epected someone different, but Man is not God, Jesus came exactly how the prophecy discribed him.

Luke 9:58 Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head."

F00028:

you cant really blame them because for one thing the prophesy didn't say his name will be Jesus and the description doesn't fit him.

No one is blaming them, they rejecting Jesus is a fulfillment of the prophecy. The name is not the LCM here, the discriptions of His kind are so accurate.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

See Jesus fulfilling it here: Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Isaiah 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him--the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD--

Isaiah 16:5 In love a throne will be established; in faithfulness a man will sit on it--one from the house of David--one who in judging seeks justice and speeds the cause of righteousness.

Haggai 2:9 The glory of this present house will be greater than the glory of the former house,' says the LORD Almighty. 'And in this place I will grant peace,' declares the LORD Almighty."

Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

plappville:

No one is blaming them, they rejecting Jesus is a fulfillment of the prophecy. The name is not the LCM here, the discriptions of His kind are so accurate.

only when you stretch it like you did up there

you are now jumping o.t - n.t

plappville: Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 11:2
Isaiah 16:5
Haggai 2:9

these can fit anybody.

plappville:
[color=#990000]Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

you can correct me if I am wrong but no one, at anytime ever called Jesus 'Immanuel'.

F00028: you are now jumping o.t - n.t

Did you accept the OT's I presented? yes or no?

these can fit anybody.Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 11:2
Isaiah 16:5
Haggai 2:9

So You are saying these prophets have lied or not accurate, Yet your Quran claims He believed the Old prophets??
Ok, if you claim thier prophecies was not for Jesus, then you have to provide who these prophecies fits detail by detail just like i did for Jesus.

you can correct me if I am wrong but no one, at anytime ever called Jesus 'Immanuel'.

You are not wrong at all. But i want you to know that, there are many names given to Jesus using the phrase “He shall be called,” both in the OT and NT.
This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways.
Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

None of these titles was Jesus’ actual name, but these were descriptions people would use to refer to Him forever. Luke tells us Jesus “shall be called the Son of the Highest” (Luke 1:32) and “son of God” (1:35) and “the prophet of the Highest” (1:76), but none of these was His name.

In two different places, the prophet Jeremiah says in referring to the coming Messiah, “And this is His name by which He shall be called, ‘The Lord is our righteousness.’” (Jeremiah 23:5-6; 33:15-16).. Jesus was never actually called ‘The Lord is our righteousness. as though it was His name, but His role was that of bringing the righteousness of God to those who would believe in Him, exchanging that righteousness for our sin (2 Corinthians 5:21).
Therefore, this is one of the many titles or “names” which belong to Jesus.

In the same way, to say that Jesus would be called "Immanuel" means Jesus is God dwelling among us and that He is always with us. When we have Jesus, We have God.
God made His dwelling among us through Jesus (John 1:1,14). So you are right, Jesus was not called Immanuel, but Jesus was the meaning of Immanuel, "God with us."
Immanuel is one of the many titles for Jesus, a description of who He is.

these can fit anybody.Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 11:2
Isaiah 16:5
Haggai 2:9

Madam Plappville, i think you should leave this guys with their delusions. There has to be something else behind not believing Isaiah 9:6 of all verses in the bible.

I posted on a thread that ParisLove open in the Islam section. It was there for 2-3 days before someone saw fit to hide it. I knew it probably was going to be hidden so i made a copy of it

@Paris_Love, actually you will not find those verses because its one of those verses that are missing from the recompiled Quran

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
'Umar said, "I am afraid that after a long time has passed, people may say, ‘We do not find the Verses of the Rajam (stoning to death) IN THE HOLY BOOK,’ and consequently they may GO ASTRAY by leaving AN OBLIGATION that Allah has revealed. Lo! I confirm that the penalty of Rajam be inflicted on him who commits illegal intimate intercourse, if he is already married and the crime is proved by witnesses or pregnancy or confession." Sufyan added, "I have memorized this narration in this way." 'Umar added, "Surely Allah's Apostle carried out the penalty of Rajam, and so did we after him." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 816)

This can mean the verses were there before but are no longer there
This means the quran is incomplete (obvious) and that means their is corruption somewhere because verses are no longer there
Also Umar knowing those verses existed once before, why did he not add them when recompiling the quran?

But Allah promised to guard his revelation in Surah 15:9, and i quote, we have without doubt sent down the message (my emphasis, the verses of stoning were sent down) and we will assuredly guard it from corruption.

There is an obvious corruption because thoses verses are missing, therefore are not guarded from corruption.

Please explain.

F00028: @dansmog++

Jesus didn't speak greek.

Neither did Mohammed speak English but we have an English Quran.

I am still trying to figure out what F00028 is talking about?

alexis:

Neither did Mohammed speak English but we have an English Quran.

yes, but you have the original words in the original language side by side to compare with any (mis)translation.

alexis: I am still trying to figure out what F00028 is talking about?

then you spoke too soon.

yes, but you have the original words in the original language side by side to compare with any (mis)translation.

Your proof?

then you spoke too soon

Perhaps, can you clarify what you are talking about?

plappville:
Did you accept the OT's I presented? yes or no?

the Prophets of old prophesied the coming of the Messiah but you must have also noticed those same Prophets didn't preach that we worship him, or that he was part of a trinity, or that he was coming to die for the sins of mankind. or did they?

plappville: So You are saying these prophets have lied or not accurate...

God forbid bad thing! me, say Prophets of old lied?!!

plappville: Ok, if you claim thier prophecies was not for Jesus, then you have to provide who these prophecies fits detail by detail just like i did for Jesus.

e.g Isaiah 53 clearly doesnt fit Jesus Christ.

and how is that my job? if today you are accused of a crime and your lawyer proves the finger prints and description of the suspect doesn't match you, is it suddenly his responsiblity to produce the actual perpetrator?

plappville: You are not wrong at all. But i want you to know that, there are many names given to Jesus using the phrase “He shall be called,” both in the OT and NT.
This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways.
Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

was Jesus Christ referred to as the The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father?
because even your nt Jesus Christ makes it very clear he's not The Father:
jhn 14:28,
jhn 8:28,
mt 19:16 and the like

alexis:
Your proof?

open a translation of the Qur'an. you'll find the original arabic and the english translation
side by side or above and below.

alexis: Perhaps, can you clarify what you are talking about?

if you have read the op and follow ups and you still don't get it then there is no point.

open a translation of the Qur'an. you'll find the original arabic and the english translation
side by side or above and below.

What version should I quote? The Hafs (used mainly in the muslim world in general)or the Warsh (Used in Algeria, Morocco, parts of Tunisia, West Africa and partly in Sudan) versions of the Qur'an. I have a few Surahs that shows differences in arabic graphical letters and vowel differences between these two Quran translations. Would you like us to compare these two? There are other Qurans like the Qalun (Used in Libya, Tunisia and parts of Qatar) as well.

if you have read the op and follow ups and you still don't get it then there is no point

I am asking you to verify your claim. Is that too much to ask?

alexis:
What version should I quote? The Hafs (used mainly in the muslim world in general)or the Warsh (Used in Algeria, Morocco, parts of Tunisia, West Africa and partly in Sudan) versions of the Qur'an...

don't make me laugh. that's something you tell the ignorant to make them think you're on to something.

the Qur'an is essentially a recital and has different reading styles/dialects. and you can find those readings in printed form but that's where it stops.

the Quran is not like your bible. where you find one has six whole books more than others, some throw out verses that others include. those are versions.

they are not merely different translations or variant readings. your bible's case is much more serious than that.

alexis: I am asking you to verify your claim. Is that too much to ask?

cut to the chase! if there's something in particular on your mind just say it and lets be done with it.

proo212:

Madam Plappville, i think you should leave this guys with their delusions. There has to be something else behind not believing Isaiah 9:6 of all verses in the bible.

I posted on a thread that ParisLove open in the Islam section. It was there for 2-3 days before someone saw fit to hide it. I knew it probably was going to be hidden so i made a copy of it

Whao, i have not come across that passage of the Hadith before... That is not the only one they removes. The Satanic verse also and the Slavery is no more practice today. They let go some of muhammed teaching. Good you kept a copy. I have been banned from Islam section hahaha....find out that, they get agitated when you post certain part of tge quran/hadith. This is wrong !

F00028:
the Prophets of old prophesied the coming of the Messiah but you must have also noticed those same Prophets didn't preach that we worship him, or that he was part of a trinity, or that he was coming to die for the sins of mankind. or did they?

There is nothing like trinity in the bible. Jesus didnt say he was God. You are bringing in dictrine formed by men into this discussion. The prophets did said, He will die for our sins, We worship God through Christ. Your questions shows that you did not read my previews posts. As for the trinity. You will find no such in the
Bible. Same with the bowing down to the Images of Saints and Mary etc etc... These are man made traditions. Those that initiated/invented such will be judge like you and i. The only thing that should count
here and be use as a point for your debate should be the Bible. Never did Jesus taught such.

God forbid bad thing! me, say Prophets of old lied?!!

Satying that Jesus did not match these prophecies is either saying Jesus is false or that the prophecies failed. As previewsly stated by me. Jesus did fulfilled them. If you believe He did not, then provide us your Messiah. If Jesus was not, why did your Quran believed He was the messiah and you are here talking an other thing?

e.g Isaiah 53 clearly doesnt fit Jesus Christ.

and how is that my job? if today you are accused of a crime and your lawyer proves the finger prints and
description of the suspect doesn't match you, is it suddenly his responsiblity to produce the actual perpetrator?

That is why you have to provide the Quranic messiah that fits in. I cannot say that Muhammed is not the conforter without backing this with the scripture. I can only say such because the bible has proofs.

was Jesus Christ referred to as the The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father?
because even your nt Jesus Christ makes it very clear
he's not The Father:
jhn 14:28,
jhn 8:28,
mt 19:16 and the like

Prophets of the Old refared to Him as the above mentioned. I have told you that, these are names used as in discription of him. He was not called these names. Jesus did not say He is God neither am i telling you that. He was prophecied to be the Son of God by prophets. You have nothing to say about this. Jesus existed before He came to earth. But He was not the almighty God. He made this plain. I am not here to discuss the trinity with you. So please, keep to our old testament prophecies debate. [/quote]