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Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by flexyonline: 5:07pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
mba emeka: @flexxyonline Guy don't just talk to sound impressive. You know nothing of what you are talking about. Did you see the profiles of the people that I said got to the interview stage. I saw them physically and interacted with them and those are the brilliant folks you call "jew men" with only one shirt and one trouser back in uni days while most people here were jostling on how to join happening clubs and catch babes. What is the name of the person you said the father used connection to getthe earth scientist job for. Put the name here, at least someone one another person's name. I believe you are making that up though. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by flexyonline: 5:10pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
mba emeka: @flexxyonline And the previous PE recruitment you talked about. Only three people were recruited, one from Imperial (first class OAU), one from AUST (first class ABU) and the last painfully was Toyin who was killed last week (first class OAU with HW M.Sc). Toyin crossed from operations where he was working before his M.Sc. So which of these guys is not top notch? |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Emperoh(m): 5:14pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
I will class recruiters I have seen from arguments submitted here on three different categories; The first regime are those whose actions are based purely on merit and that's where you have most "serious-minded" business organizations, banks, FMCGs and a handful of multi-nationals and diplomatic offices. The second group is basically a mixture of merit-based recruitment and some nepotism to at least "appease the gods" of the land and curry some executive of legislative favour. You will find most multi-nationals and some well to do, established outfits here and even some FG/State Govt agencies. The third and final group are those basically recruiting based on pure nepotism! Government agencies lead the pack here. All my friends who are working in any FG or State ministry, agency or departments got in there through "man-know-man". This is not to say that there aren't merit based recruitment. If we are able to address and understand all these, then I think it will help those who are seeking to know where to channel their papers and how and when to do proper packaging before applying. If you are doing a serious company, you know what to do and if FGN agency, you better start looking for who will help. In all, let's look at a case study' If Emperoh, is jobless and apparently just left school with an M.Sc abroad or locally-at least Pan_African University- and needs a job. Assume my dad knows a senior govt official or regulatory official who knows the MD of FBN or Unilever, I will most likely get the job. But two things are at play here; am i competent enough to discharge my duties very well and have the job for keeps? Or on the converse, am I a misfitd or just incompetent? The first one will keep you on the job if you are smart, hard working and competent. But any serious company will kick you out after a period if you are not delivering. I have seen this happen MANY TIMES. In essence is; there are companies out there who are looking for competent, qualified peeps that will deliver results. Very technical works that can impact on the image of a company are not what people use to assuage or placate Godfathers or friends. However, nepotism from what we have seen can be more sensible if you use your influence to give a qualified person a job. This is basically where Senior Executive recommendation that Jarus and Ajanlekoko talked about comes in. It is basically in govt agencies that you a good number of "half baked" grads working and just filling Federal Character quota. The main culprit remains that white collar jobs are diminishing and fast too (I still wonder how this is so with the so called interest of foreign investors in Nigeria and the growth of the middle class with disposable income). The arrival of technically inclined Asians haven't helped our cause. Indians and Chinese are everywhere. But I insist and know so, that merit based jobs exist, especially in the private sector. In the case of MNC and IOCs, have we realised that most of their technical jobs are outsourced? Do you think the contractors who handle these outsourced jobs use mediocre staff? My brother works for a Shell contractor and I know the level of expertise that goes into their project delivery. Two things are basically fighting a returnee and I discovered this through personal experience; a lot of people expect to walk in and get a job. Not true. Any serious minded agency will take an experienced hand before an M.Sc or even a Ph.D(ok, maybe am exaggerating) but that's reality. Again, most M.Sc holders don't have experience. I have seen a handful of experienced M.Sc holders who came in and got jobs almost immediately. There is also this issue of local content that i once encountered with an interview panel I chanced upon whereby two experience and well qualified candidates where vying for one slot. It was a case of foreign experience with foreign degree and local experience with local degree. Guess what? They took the local guy, citing his knowledge of the local business environment as their deciding factor; we are talking of SCB here. Hence, it is false to think that jobs in Nigeria can only be gotten through nepotism. False! No serious profit and image-oriented outfit will give a job to a misfit. If this is the case, why are HR and Staffing agencies springing up daily and getting briefs for executive search? Why do KPMG, PwC, Accenture etc handle staffing for clients? Work to get an opportunity for an interview, go in and prove your mettle! On personal experience, i resigned my first job (which i got through contact ) in 2010 and went to do my M.Sc at PAU, with the belief that it will be easier for me to get a job after M.Sc. Well, i know better today. It took me almost 12 months to get the job i am on now (graduated in 2011). I had got two previous offers but mysteriously lost them; One was PwC and the other Heirs Holdings (both without knowing no one!!!). I just had an interview opportunity and proved myself in my area of competence. In the case of Heirs, the Chairman autographed his book and gave me as a memoir. For the place i currently work, i saw the opening on this Nairaland and applied, got called for an interview and the rest is history. Let's always learn to approach things on a 50-50 basis. It works!! Merits based openings still dey! 2 Likes |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by bankylan: 5:25pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
If you are not from one of the top B-Schools, coming to Nigeria with your foreign degree will not automatically give you a good job....the likes of LBS,Cranfield,Insead, HARVARD, Hass, Hec, Stanford, ROTMAN,Ivey with impressive work experience can give you a good job. But I am not sure of the likes of London South Bank, Southampton, e.t.c. 1 Like |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by coogar: 5:25pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
i don't believe emperoh..... you want to tell me you didn't rub the palms of your interviewer before you got your current job? you didn't take him to obeledu-ugada for a weekend trip? |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by mbaemeka(m): 5:29pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
@flexyonline I swear you're making me LOL. If you had read my previous posts you'd have seen where I said my close friend that works in ExxonMobil and that confided in me graduated with a first class degree. I have never said that most folks that got the jobs weren't worth their onions. I simply said external help was involved. For example I know someone who had a 4.02 CGPA from Babcock university and who studied Business Admin that cannot calculate propotion. I mean he can't even evaluate something as simple as 'Data interpretation' type maths. I had more than a herculean task putting him through. . . Yet I didn't succeed. He works for one of them Multinational servicing companies (not Schlurm though). How could he have passed any test? Isn't he 'qualified' by the CGPA criteria (at least that's a good 2'1) I can also tell you about the best student ever in Unilag's engineering faculty (that didn't transfer from the HND o) that wrote Chevrons test and didn't make it yet a 2'1 person from his dept got the job through recruitment malfeasance. Just like BA friend he too is qualified and a brillian chap but he knows he couldn't have got that job deviod of internal/external help. Me list names for you? I'm not that petty besides if they stumble on the story on NL they'd know where it emanated from because a part of my moniker does give me away. If you think I'm lying that's really your business. Some others don't think that, atleast Jarus could vouch for my SHELL account and Rhino.5dn can for my Exxon one. Maybe you got a job with Chevron in 2009 or so without any help but that doesn't in anyway negate my story. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Emperoh(m): 5:35pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
coogar: i don't believe emperoh..... Yes boss!! I rubbed no palm, gave them no virgins from Obeledu neither did i share our special, fresh palmy!! |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Jarus(m): 5:38pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Emperoh: Why do KPMG, PwC, Accenture etc handle staffing for clients? Work to get an opportunity for an interview, go in and prove your mettle! Just to chip this in. I was recruited by KPMG for my current employer. I didn't even know the name of the company until I got to the stage where I had to meet them (more than 5 months into the recruitment exercise). All through, KPMG were describing the company as 'independent E&P company'. The name was revealed to me when I got to final stage and neeed to meet their HR/Finance. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by mbaemeka(m): 5:40pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Emperoh might be saying the truth but KPMG and PWC pay like 120-140 thousandper month for graduate trainee and they employ quite a handful year- in- year out. The sad thing is that a lot of their staff quit after a year or two for better paying jobs. Those jobs are only good when you're up the cadre. Note: I passed both tests for the two companies and was even offered a place by one. Since I was looking for oil and gas experience (as an engineer) I declined. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Jarus(m): 5:44pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
mba emeka: @flexyonlineSometimes, tests can be a different ball game. Some guys are just experts in tests taking, and with 2.2, can even beat Firsts in tests taking. I'm also not a 'test person' -I even flunked a couple of tests, but I can't remember ever failing an interview. I prefer interview to test. Not justifying a shortcoming ( if you have good grade in school, you should be able to scale any criteria- test or interview), just calling attention to that. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by dayokanu(m): 5:55pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Emperoh: Are you trying to tell me that you work in Muri Okunola now? Emperoh, You gave me money to drop your resume with HR. Better confess now or I would show everyone my Bank statement where you deposited |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by dayokanu(m): 5:55pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
mba emeka: Emperoh might be saying the truth but KPMG and PWC pay like 120-140 thousandper month for graduate trainee and they employ quite a handful year- in- year out. The sad thing is that a lot of their staff quit after a year or two for better paying jobs. Those jobs are only good when you're up the cadre. This is very true. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Emperoh(m): 5:57pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
I can't remember how many tests i wrote. Some i flunked some i passed. basically 50-50 Most times i prefer interviews where i must have made a situational analysis of the position, have ready made work plans and a 'what to do' plan for the role ready. . . . . . that was i did Heirs; an interview that lasted for, wait for it; 2 hours 13 minutes. Post M.Sc, i have wrote only two tests. Passe one (PwC) failed one. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Emperoh(m): 5:59pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
dayokanu: This man!! please where is Muri Okunola? Oh, PwC head office. . . . . Please can you post the statement? Maybe, just maybe we might prove your real worth! |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by intrepid: 5:59pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
cheleku: Nice piece. But you got your message a bit muddled up. I don't quite get where stand on foreign degrees. You seem to discourage it at one point, and yet encourage it at some other point. On a lighter note, do you still have the funny accent? If you do, quickly discard of it. It may be the reason why you had to search for a job for so long.Just my thoughts!@OP could it be your accent intimidated them and you know,the person you were talkin to may even be one of those Nigerian graduates that cant make a single correct Sentence in English. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Nobody: 6:04pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
salt 1: Just to lift the mood of those that find all these depressing: I've changed job four times without knowing anybody. I think where the nepotism thing is more noticed is with government agencies.I once used man know man to secure an interview and job at dfid (making market work for......). I was to be posted to kano and that was when the bombing was intense. I chose life over money. abi dfid nor be international NGO? |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Emperoh(m): 6:13pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
saxywale: I am actually working on a DFID project as we speak and that's where i got to know the value of performance, integrity and professionalism. No looking over your shoulder etc. . . .guess what? I saw the opening on nairaland and applied. 1 Like |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Jarus(m): 6:13pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Emperoh: I can't remember how many tests i wrote. I also prefer interviews. PwC and KPMG are actually great places to start one's career (for accountants, tax practitioners, etc, not engineers except you want to permanently drift to management). You may be earning low, but guy, you are hot cake after 2-3 years of training with these guys. While your colleagues that started in banks etc are still on same pay (initially higher than yours)you can easily move to better paying jobs and earn double what they are earning or even be their bosses sef. KPMG and PwC offer the best foundational training for anyone that wants a career in consulting/management/accounting/auditing/taxation/finance etc 1 Like |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by kabaka1: 6:55pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
I think u have some good points here, but I'm just curious, what course did u major in at the Uk university. That might be a key factor of ur getting a job or not. Let's say if u majored in courses like filmography, computer animation, E-banking etc, I doubt that u'll look 4 a job less than a month in Nigeria if u're coming from Uk. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by stansmart(m): 6:59pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Foreign degrees will make 9geri great once govt creates d right environment. Wen I tink of d nonsense I gathered as knowledge in unilag I just weep compared to wot I got from univ of illinois urbana. One can come up with several solutions to permeate the 9ja mrkt but d challenges are high and dats whr govt comes into play. Present 9ja jobs don't require real expertise so foreign degrees are not needed. Wen my friends tell me wot dey do in mobil and co anyone can do it. Bottomline dose with foreign degrees suld wait till wen d 9ja mrkt matures b4 repatriating. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Nobody: 7:36pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
coogar: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Reality I will keep saying this: IT IS BLATANT FALSEHOOD that 90% of jobs in Nigeria is on man-know-man basis. It is callous to say so just because of his unfortunate experience. I am a witness. I have seen hundreds of people get jobs on merit in both private and public organizations. I'm not ruling out getting a job through networking in Nigeria. I'm only saying it is highly exaggerated. Jobs are few in Nigeria. Thus, only the very best and favoured get to have employment in Nigeria. I was once involved in a major recruitment involving thousands of applicants and they finally took only six of us. We never knew anybody. But it will be very difficult to convince the remaining thousands of unsuccessful candidates that we never knew anybody in the organization. I'm not against any other info in the write-up (didn't bother reading everything) |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by kabaka1: 7:52pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Rhino.5dm: Good pointS |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Nobody: 7:59pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
kabaka1:Rhino.5dm: that's not true. From your comments quoted by this fellow, you know absolutely NOTHING about International Oil Companies. I won't say more than this. Enjoy your blissful ignorance but don't come here to spread lies. I rest my case |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by djon78(m): 8:03pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Big ups to rhino, jarus, mba, ajelenko, dayo kanu, coogar, etc for this educative tread I was really impressed to see u all discussing intelligently not all those tribal cursing out done before, more of this. As for me had a bussiness degree from oversea, it was very tough for me, worked in a financial service company on the island, the experience was terrible, at the end got a lifeline from a relation to run his bussiness for him, it was very profitable and not up to a year has gotten turnover of over 30mil, now know my way around and bussiness links to even oil and gas, IT related field and other stuffs. I am just starting with the drive and push I have this is just the begining, my ambition of building up a world class reputable African firm is in the making, were I will have access to pool of talents, brains that this continent has ever known all working together. I know it is not a bed of roses but I know that it is possible, am equiping myself, improving everyday, with the required resources needed. Jack welch fomer ceo of general said the secret of his success in taking GE from small to a global company was simply having the best brains around him while Richard Branson said the secret of his succeess was that he has be smart to surround himself with people smarter than him and given them the free hand to make their own deciscions. I think the op should not just have the mindset of job seeker but rather to create his own job, degree foriegn or local cannot lift this nation to great heights rather knowledge that those degrees present. The problem we have in black africa as a whole is that there is no hunger for knowledge, even when we have the knowledge we lack the ability of applying, imputing and puting that knowledge into practice to yield result which is wisdom. That's were the caucascians, asians etc have the edge over us, they are not better than us, while studying abroad I used myself to know that they were not better than me, some of them in my class will consult me for clarification in topics I have better understanding. My advice to both graduates both home and abroad, think outside the box, be creative, don't just fold your hands waiting for white collar jobs, create ur own, I know its not easy who said that life is easy, never so my dear, so no excuse. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Jarus(m): 8:04pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
x-fire:That is the mentality I also try to make reason beyond. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by djon78(m): 8:18pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
Sorry for some grammatical mistakes with my post I was typing with my mobile and also did nt have time to proof read after composing because I was rushing home to watch madrid vs man u game. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by dayokanu(m): 8:23pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
x-fire: I agree especially when its Multi nationals But with Govt I think its reverse |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Nobody: 8:34pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
dayokanu: Maybe for some govt firms, but not all. I have previously worked with arguably the biggest govt organization in Nigeria, and I didn't know anybody before joining. I just passed the test and interview. And all the people I know in the organization passed through the same without knowing anybody. I know quite a number of people who are working the government without knowing anybody. I believe man-know-man issue MAY (I'm not sure) be common in the ministries, but it is negligble in some govt agencies and parastatals. |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by AVISENNA: 9:25pm On Mar 05, 2013 |
For anyone who cares to listen and is really sincere : for those who studied from there(SFT) and those who studied from here (SFH) , everything seemed to have changed a great deal , it's not a hidden fact that one of the Uk's major export is it's university educational system , the schools are everywhere but one thing they are no longer telling people is that there are no longer jobs in the Uk ,I have a few as collegues , I also have some who have come back and just don't know where to start. We are having job cuts both in the US and Europe The reason why some are coming back is that they can't even get a decent job in the uk , it's either Primark as store sales rep or flipping bugger at Mcdonalds. Education will always be relevant and that is for sure but we shld always ask ourselves , why do you need that degree . P Square , 2Face , Iyanya have carved a nitch for themselves and have enough to school anywhere in the world m This dude spent millions. Just to bag a degree but some of my Igbo bros started life with less than 500k and armed with hope and tenacity to survive they've made it and you can't just imagine the class of women they want to marry . Some of our parents schooled abroad and came back, some decided to stay there and have been miserable . You can't tell for sure where the road will lead you to but at least make sure you are on pathway to a fulfilled life . Let's think of ways to start being creative : forget goverment : ppl there are confused ,the banks ;it's not for your fathers so don't expect loan .The banks know that you will come with stories on why the can't pay as at when due . Don't berate urself ,still send the CV's and look beyong what they are paying : if not I guess you need to go back to flipping burgers in America ,Uk . Jokes aside I know ppls who are getting good jobs in and out of Nigeria with foreign degree .Thank God say ur own no be from Ukraine . |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Olaone1: 12:46am On Mar 06, 2013 |
I have noticed something about Nairalanders: anytime I see a thread like this, the commenters always claim they got their job on merit. As if they are not in Nigeria. Even in houses of God in Nigeria, it is very hard for anyone to become a leading minister without help. Haba! Liars! |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by Olaone1: 12:49am On Mar 06, 2013 |
bankylan: If you are not from one of the top B-Schools, coming to Nigeria with your foreign degree will not automatically give you a good job....the likes of LBS,Cranfield,Insead, HARVARD, Hass, Hec, Stanford, ROTMAN,Ivey with impressive work experience can give you a good job. You don't even know what you're talking about. You think Southampton is a bad uni? Or did you mean the Solent one? |
Re: Foreign Degree & The Nigerian Mentality by coogar: 12:56am On Mar 06, 2013 |
x-fire: but that's the reality...... to even know there are vacancies in some companies involved a super duper networking of friends. not everybody gets to hear chevron is recruiting or mobil is recruiting. thank heavens for internet and mobile phones, things are a bit better but you still need to know someone to get by.
how do you know for sure they got it on merit and nothing else was involved? it's not like they would tell you what they did here and there as most of these things are done under secrecy.
i agree - it would be unfair to say people don't get hired on merit alone in nigeria but far majority don't get in by merit. something somewhere must have acted as a catalyst! |
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