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Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by smile4kenn(m): 10:08am On Mar 25, 2008 |
Nigerian-born Justin Onwordi, who fought on the side of America and was killed in Iraq was among over 100 foreign-born American soldiers who earned post-humour American citizenship for dying in Iraq. Onwordi died when his vehicle was blown up in Baghdad on August 2, 2004. He left behind a wife and baby boy. Onwordi, who came to the US from Nigeria in July 2000, started his military training six months later. The 6-foot-4 Nigerian was later assigned to the Army’s 2nd Battalion, 12th Armoured Calvary Regiment, 1st Calvary Division, and was stationed at Ford Hood Texas. He started his tour duty in Iraq in January. When his wife gave birth to a baby boy, he got two weeks’ leave on June 23 to visit his wife, Monique, and baby named Jonathan on July 7, 2004. According to the Associated Press, certificates of citizenship were presented to the families of the victims at a memorial service conducted by a Roman Catholic Cardinal on Sunday in Lomita, Carlifonia, US. But as the war continues, more and more immigrants are becoming citizens in death — and more and more families are grappling with deeply conflicting feelings about exactly what the honour means. “On the one hand I felt that citizenship was too late for him,” Mosquera said. “But I also felt grateful and very proud of him. I knew it would open doors for us as a family.” “What use is a piece of paper?” cried Fredelinda Pena after another emotional naturalisation ceremony, this one in New York City where her brother’s framed citizenship certificate was handed to his distraught mother. Next to her, the infant daughter he had never met dozed in his fiancee’s arms. http://punchontheweb.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art200803250412823 |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by smile4kenn(m): 10:12am On Mar 25, 2008 |
it is only vagabonds in foreign land, that look down upon Nigeria as hell. We are making progress at home and in no sooner time Americans will soon make Nigerian their toasts. Nigerians are no racists |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Nobody: 11:04am On Mar 25, 2008 |
I'm not sure these guys were forced to join the US Army. They must have joined the army on their own free will, that means they knew the conditions of the job. A few of the conditions are: 1. They must serve for about 3 years in the army before they can be awarded citizenship. 2. The army is a matter of life and death. With these two points alone, the issue at stake should be whether their compensations have been duly paid. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Afam(m): 1:04pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
What a shame that Nigerians would have to die in another man's country to become a citizen of that country, a sarcrifice they will never make for their country, because of bad government. And I guess it is good government that led the US into a meaningless war based on the lies of George Bush abi? Nonsense. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by almondjoy(f): 1:37pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Now, this is a topic very dear to ma heart. Yes, George Bush lied and all that but soldiers do not have a choice where they choose to be sent. They only obey orders or face the end of their careers. No soldier would want to face that kind of dishonor. When you join the army. . . .you do not question orders. . . .you simply follow. . . .since your elected officials YOU voted into power have sent you to serve them like you have committed to do. Having written that, ma heart will continue to bleed for those who lose their lives in combat especially in America. For Nigerians who died in Iraq, my condolences to their family members. If Nigeria could do for their citizens what America tries to do. . . .no one will go to Iraq to die. If that is the way people should earn some form of hopeful existence, so be it. I will personally die in Iraq first, before I die for Nigeria under any cicumstances. Unless Nigeria learns to ascribe some kind of meaning to any form of human life! Nigeria has not learned to define the meaning patriotism. It means a country has to give it's citizens something to make them proud of it proud in return. In Nigeria, we know the story. At least America tries to honor it's dead in some fashion so they do not die in vain. In Nigeria, you will definitely die in vain. Farewell fellow comrades. You make me proud. Thank you for making America a better place, while Nigeria gets worse! |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Afam(m): 2:03pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
And why didn't you or haven't you joined the US Army? Join them and head to Iraq. Quite a number of americans deserted the army and took off to Canada. If you cannot blame the soldiers since they were taking orders from above why blame Nigeria after all it was under military rule for a long time? Abi na different rules for different people you dey practice? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 2:28pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
@Poster, No one forced him to join the army, He did so knowing it could potentially cost him his life and so did the thousands of men and women who have joined the army in the past 5 years of war. They all do so knowing full well that the rule is they may be called to combat. So I believe no matter our stance for or against the war, we should respect their right to choose to join the army or not. Another thing one should consider here is we have so many hundreds who have died in Nigeria for no sensible reason, are those lives more fulfilled than the lives of those who died doing exactly what they signed up to do Everyone has an opinion and is quick to voice it without considering to stand and think to respect the right of these people who join the army for one reason or another, knowing that it could potentially cost them their lives. I remember having the story of a person back in Nigeria who signed up to join the Army back in the days of Abacha. The dude understood the risks and was well informed of what could potentially be his fate. I remember we all tried to talk him out of him, tried to convince him but to no avail. Unfortunately for him, he did not meet the criteria and we thought we had saved his life. A couple of months later, the same dude was gunned down during a fiasco on campus and that was it for him. Did he then die the best way |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by almondjoy(f): 2:40pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Afam: I have family members including ma husband in the military as combat and medical personnel, and all are citizens. . . . . . . . not looking for green card thank you! People died to give us this freedom. Someone has to mind the home. so I choose to stay behind while he goes back and forth. But I would not mind joining the military if I had to. I will return the favor in a heart beat! If people desert fine. . . .you can only do your best! If I had to join the military. . . I will do so without a second thought! If I were ever drafted. . . I will not even think twice! Which Military rule in Nigeria? That is a dictatorship ok? Please let's get the facts straight! No different rules at all. You just cannot compare a country that has a government to one that does not have one! Onions and potatoes. As you can see, nothing came out of the Biafra war. Nigeria only got worse. With each war places like America fights. . .no matter how dubious the reasons are. . . it gets better! |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by almondjoy(f): 2:45pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Kobojunkie: Thank you! Nothing to add or subtract! Like I said, most people in Africa especially will only die for corruption while they remain slaves to their principles of meaningless existence! If I joined the American army today. . . I will not be doing so for any kind of gratification. It comes from ma personal convictions as a believer of freedom. So people after me will continue to enjoy the most free country in the world compared to others. People who have lived in other countries will testify that America is the leader of the "Free World"! The things you will get away with in this country. . .you can never attempt to do in others. . . including our Nigeria with all the ethnic and religious intolerance. Yes, we have racisim in America. . but they really try to rise above that as one like the existence of Obama can attest to. Will this happen in Britain? A half-black/half white man on a presidential ballot in 2008? All Princess Diana had to do was hook up with a guy from Egypt and we still yet to determine what killed her. Anytime I go through international airports and I see those handsome young men and women with "duty" written all over their faces and carriages, I just weep for Nigeria! When you see the so called soldiers in Nigeria, all are from Chad or some area in Nigeria. You hardly see a southerner in the army for combat. Highest, they become thieving police commisioners and I.G.s/A.I.Gs to continue stealing and looting. When ever you have a state of emergency in Nigeria, those ugle MOPOLs are mobilized from same caves in Minna or kafantchan to terrorize the whole country with some dictatorship crap since the cowardly southerners are too busy looking for where to steal money! How will we not continue to live as slaves? No principles to live and die by! But they will sleep in church hoping for some manna to fall from heaven. But when you see American soldiers. . . they come from all over the country. No doubt they love their country and are ready to die for it. . . . . .voluntarily! |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Afam(m): 2:56pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
almondjoy: Like Iraq abi? Or Afghanistan? Which one? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by almondjoy(f): 3:06pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Afam: We did not complain when they helped to bring Hitler to his knees. Or Keep Russia in check abi? They are bound to make errors. Iraq and Afghanista will work out themselves! Yes, I agree. . . . those are grave errors. But like I said, it will be alright in the end! As you can remember the errors of Iraq and Afghanistan. . . .remember the hopes and successes of past combats too. Which one Nigeria don do? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Afam(m): 3:38pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
almondjoy: Of course it will be alright in the end after hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children must have been sent to their early graves based on the lies of the US president. Nigeria? Liberia and Sierra Leone. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 3:46pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
The world as we know it was built on wars. Countless lives have been lost so that those of us here today can log on and freely post our opinions on here. If not for war, people in africa today would not at least enjoy the limited freedom they do today. Any learned person who has taken time to research and educate his/herself on the history of civilization would understand and appreciate that fact. War, like racism will never disappear as it has it's place in the civilization as we know it. NO one person can claim that we would be where we are today if not for wars that were fought to bring us what we have today. Even in our dear africa, wars had to be fought to get us to where we are today and I believe more wars need to be fought to get us to where we need to be instead. Some of the most peace loving people on the earth as we know it, the Buddhist monks have in recent times have to find out that passive fights are not all that it takes even in the so called civilized world we live in today. We have heard of the number of monks that have been killed from Bhurma to tibet and there seems to be no end in sight. I think to take the WARS ARE EVIL stance is naive and for someone to make that claim today is understandable given the fact that these people do not understand how many in the past had to pay with their lives believing for a better future for those who survive. For example thousands died so that south africa today may have the freedom they do now and enjoy. Would anyone here come in to say that those thousands died in vain?? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Afam(m): 3:51pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Unadulterated hypocrisy at play. One on hand someone complains about terrorism and on the other categorically states that wars are necessary. Is someone losing it here or what? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by chidichris(m): 4:39pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
wow! many like to take panadol for other people's headache. more than a million nigerians in the usa, many have been there for over 50 years yet they were not forced into usa military. the man in question willingly choosed the millitary and it is obvious he knew the implications so why the heck? if i may ask, how many in innocent people are dying as a result of our bad roads here in nigeria on daily bases? how many are dying in the hands of robbers? how many are dying as a result of hunger? how many innocent people are wasting away in our jails as a result of what they don't know? how many lives do we loose during our elections? how many pipeline fire outbreaks claiming lives in thousands in nigeria? how many people lost their lives in bayasa in 1999 genocide? in all, how many of all these people had their names on punch talkless of recieving a presidential honour? how many people are dying on daily bases in mugabe's madness? yet nigerians and africans as a whole shout it loud whenever we hear that an american soldier has been killed in iraq. does it mean that americans are human beings while africans are human rice or are they more human than us? we must learn to have self values if we want outsiders to value us. we must appreciate the fact that the US millitary is a matter of choice. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Blatant: 5:06pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
It's a shame that it has come to this. Nigerians dying for other countries but they will not consider dying for Nigeria because Nigeria is clearly not worth dying for. When will we begin to take affirmative action with regards to these things? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 5:17pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Blatant: So it is better for a Nigerian to die for Nigeria than for a Nigeria to die for an adopted country?? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 5:35pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
So it is better for a Nigerian to die for Nigeria than for a Nigeria to die for an adopted country?? the nationalist side of me says its better for a nigerian to die for nigeria. ghandi could have died serving for the british empire in south africa but he choose to pay a price for his country. of course, this is all personal opinion. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 5:41pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
bawomolo: Ok, Your nationalist side. But again, if I choose to adopt another nationality, what do I loose if I die for my adopted country?? What I am basically getting at is this. Are we tied to our nations of origin the way some people make it seem?? In the world we live in today, is a man still defined by his nationality( the birth place of his parents) or is he allowed to of his choice decide what group he should be associated with and hence the worth of his own life?? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 5:48pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Ok, Your nationalist side. But again, if I choose to adopt another nationality, what do I loose if I die for my adopted country?? your loyality lies to that country then giving it's ur adopted country?? i don't think the US really welcomes us african immigrants relative to others though. it's the choice of the person to decide where their loyalty lies. In the world we live in today, is a man still defined by his nationality( the birth place of his parents) or is he allowed to of his choice decide what group he should be associated with and hence the worth of his own life?? ethnicity and nationality aren't a bad way of classifying humans. u have a right to determine ur own identity but nationality or POB is an ascribed status. there's one thing i know, i would sacrifice my life in a country where am considered second class when there's a country that needs my skills more. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Blatant: 5:52pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
First thing is that the guy died as a Nigerian. he only became American after his death so you can really say he died for his adopted country. Man is still defined, to an extent, by Nationality amongst a lot of other things by which man is defined. if not, we would all be moving in and out of every country without being hindered or without barriers. If he choses and is allowed to become a national of any country, then that's the country that he will be associated with. You cant speak so dismissively of man's nationality |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 5:53pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
bawomolo: What do you mean by the statement in bold??
I do not think ethnicity and nationality are bad ways of classifying human beings but human beings can also choose not to classify self by those as well. I believe that freedom already exists and should be considered as valid. What do you mean here?? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 5:53pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Blatant: Well, If he had died as an American citizen, what nationality would you have considered him then?? My issue is this, many people die daily in Nigeria that we do not even consider to take a minute to talk about but as soon as someone goes someplace else to accomplish one thing or another and maybe in the process dies, we mention Nigeria being his national and I wonder why this hullabaloo over people like that. A Nigerian boy goes over to europe on a boat and maybe accomplishes much for himself there, people start talking of him being originally Nigerian but no one considered him much when he was in Nigeria struggling for help. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 7:25pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
What do you mean by the statement in bold?? although african immigrants have one of the highest educational attainment rates, they still lag behind european and asian immigrants. it's one reason, i don't think this country should be called home. I do not think ethnicity and nationality are bad ways of classifying human beings but human beings can also choose not to classify self by those as well. I believe that freedom already exists and should be considered as valid. human beings may choose not to classify themselves by both but society at large chooses to differ. arnold schwazzneger(sp) may be a naturalized american but people still refer to his austrian upbringing. by the bold, i meant nigeria requires skilled hands more urgently than the US. this may be one's adopted home but we are still seen as nigerian or african. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 7:28pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
bawomolo: Can you please provide information to support this claim?? |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 7:57pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
i hope u have access to JSTOR. [url]http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1077-3711(199422)4%3C10%3AAUSRHA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-H[/url] Examined the impact of black race on earnings, comparing African immigrants with native-born blacks and whites and white immigrants. Data from the 1980 and 1990 US. Population Censuses indicated that African immigrants had the highest educational attainment but the lowest earnings returns to education. Results highlighted a racial hierarchy in earnings, with whites at the top, followed by African Americans, than Africans http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ662185&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ662185 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africans_in_the_United_States http://www.amazon.com/Bridges-Barriers-Occupational-Attainment-Immigrants/dp/1931202168 |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 8:30pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Please take a look at this http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/education/cps2006.html Table 10. Educational Attainment of the Population 25 Years and Over, by Citizenship, Nativity and Period of Entry, Age, Sex, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 2006 |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 8:42pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
i've checked it out but the census doesn't give percentages for hispanic, asian, african, european immigrants etc. something the journal does. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 8:43pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
I don't have access to the journal but if you would, please post the actual information that convinces you or such an idea on here for all to see. If you look at the table it does give you a different list for each of the groups and I would believe you have to compare the total to the All races data to get what you need. Educational Attainment of the Population 25 Years and Over, by Citizenship, Nativity and Period of Entry, Age, Sex, Race, and Hispanic Origin: 2006 All Races Excel (38k) | CSV (14k) White alone Excel (38k) | CSV (14k) Non-Hispanic White alone Excel (38k) | CSV (13k) Black alone Excel (39k) | CSV (12k) Asian alone Excel (39k) | CSV (11k) Hispanic Excel (38k) | CSV (12k) White alone or in combination Excel (38k) | CSV (14k) Black alone or in combination Excel (39k) | CSV (12k) Asian alone or in combination Excel (38k) | CSV (11k) |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 9:14pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by Kobojunkie: 9:52pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
From the article you linked me to,
According to the US census in 1999 though , http://www.census.gov/prod/2000pubs/p20-528.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf I have questions on these numbers as I am still not convinced of the first or the second, According to the numbers, it still does not show that Africans are most educated. I was able to pull the report from 1999 and 2003 and those 2 indicate that is not the case. As for the other, It is not clear at all if Africans are the main groups earning less in this case and it does not consider employment levels at all. I mean A senior Software Engineer with a master's and a junor Software Engineer with a masters are both considered advanced, but no information is provided to help understand how many of what race are in what level and more. |
Re: Nigerian, Others Bag Us Citizenship For Dying In Iraq by bawomolo(m): 10:15pm On Mar 25, 2008 |
actually the 2003 census supports the journal's viewpoint since only about 30% of native americans have bachelors degree's compared to approximately half for both asian and african immigrants. we may good to get a degree but it doesn't seem we are good enough to be head of the department or dean of faculty etc. there are many books that document how white immigrants have an age over non-white immigrants regardless of equal education. I mean A senior Software Engineer with a master's and a junor Software Engineer with a masters are both considered advanced, but no information is provided to help understand how many of what race are in what level and more. so who do u think has a better chance of being the senior level engineer. a white engineer or a black engineer |
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