ketoprofen:

Its not about the size, its abt the integrity. so, u are even tryting to say that u need an invasion to expand? weak vessels.

BTW, Arochukwu wasnt a small empire

tell me,is d whole aroshuku as big as just oyo state?

You all hv done well in bringing Yoruba origin alive again. Yoruba are graet men always. Proudly yoruba, proudly 9ja

tothemax86: the book is Origin of the Yoruba and “The Lost Tribes of Israel” by Dierk Lange

You mean the book where Lange asserted that Oranyan was the Biblical Jacob and lived around 700 Before Christ and that Ajaka was Isaac (800 BC) He also claimed Alaafin Abiodun, who must historians agree ruled in the late 18th century, was Nabopolassar? Lange was smoking something bad when he wrote that book.

tothemax86:
Well both of my parents are from oyo state, so i guess I'm 100% yoruba.. Samuel Johnson is my source.. he also wrote about lamurudu. sultan bello of the sokoto caliphate wrote about yorubas descending from an arabian king. I am also aware of the similarities in religion and tribal marks between the sudanese, the kanuris and yorubas. There is a book in ife which odduduwa brought with him from the near east, it is still impossible to translate the language. Also yorubas in ancient time designed a method of written language with knots and strings, which is very similar to the ancient hieroglyphs of the egyptians. The religious systems of ancient egypt and yoruba are also similar

Well there are no Arabian manuscripts of these Arabian kings 'running' to Africa. Sargon was given several names in Nigeria, Sudan/Chad, Mali. How could one person have been present in several places at the same? Johnson himself stated that the only written record of this tale was that provided by Sultan Bello in Captain Clapperton's book. Are the believers of this tale postulating that they require a Fulani to tell them their history? Do Yoruba oral traditions provide for a flight story? No

My own conclusion - Since most groups migrated down from Nubia, it is probable that Obatala, Orunmila migrated from Nubia to Ile-Ife. The Arabian story was most likely invented by Muslim scholars in a bid to spread Islam. Remember that these accounts provide for a religious war between Muslims and Idol worshipers in which the Idol worshipers are defeated and fled southwards to Africa. This hypothesis is further lent credence by the absence of these tales in non-Muslims groups in Nigeria. I may be wrong though.

manibuds: katsumoto,i like your excerpt [Source - Tishkoff(2009), "The Genetic Structure and History of Africans and African Americans"]
how can anybody talk about any sensitive human issue without saying something thru the genetic/geneaological angle.
studies of present day pple living in england show that they are more closely related to Spaniards but ask them about their history and culture and they'll cling to anglo-saxons and roman influences,who came as conquerors and rulers but the everyday pple on the british isle were pple who migrated northwards from spain!
some igbos claim links wit isreal without bothering to do a genetic check.
over 20million nigerians speak english today,maybe in 500years time some of our descendants will claim they migrated from england.
there is a reason yoruba which some pple say is the original language of the oyos became wide spread in what is present day SW nigeria[most likely related to survival in the slave trade era,the oyo empire along with the benin empire helped nigeria earn the nick name 'slave coast',remember we had 'gold coast'& 'ivory coast'.
katsumoto please open a thread on genealogy of nigerian tribes,all this 'we are from egypt' jokes should make may for sound logic.

Thanks

Maybe I will open the thread when I get some time on my hands. I don't want to start it and then disappear for a couple of weeks.

Katsumoto:

Thanks

Maybe I will open the thread when I get some time on my hands. I don't want to start it and then disappear for a couple of weeks.

Katz,

A hardworking and busy man never gets the time he wants, he must take the time given to him in the affairs of events. This time has been given to you. Take the opportunity. There is a ginned up interest and drive for a deep dive understanding of Yoruba culture in all its varied facets. Go ahead and open the post, your availability will open up in ways you had not anticipated and you will find you have the time and energy to dedicate to it. You will not regret doing so. We will support you in our various expertise but conflicting subject areas.

ODUA MI REP MEN!!

olumentain: The Origin of yoruba it from OYO,

for some people, its benin.

one day, we go know wetin we nor know before, whether na from dahomey yoruba come.

Katsumoto:

There are parts of Akoko (Ikare) that are pure Yoruboid (from Ife). There are parts (Dada, Akunnu) that are mixed Yoruba, Edo, and Nupe. The third part (Isua, etc) have ancestry that migrated from Benin. The mixture of the groups probably arose as Oba Ozolua journeyed through Akoko to wage war against the Nupes or Igallas (maybe both of them; I have to check).

Katsumoto:

We are just sharing knowledge tpia; no biggie.

thanks for your contribution, o all knowing one.

Dudu_Negro:

Hey gbaky wassup,

I made a decision not to get in the discussions; I just wanted to post the images. I will make an exception and share my thoughts on your question of why Yoruba women sport low hair cut. I do not know with certainty why this is done but I have plausible reasons to believe that this unique hair styling has both practical and vanity reasons to it. Other people may come up with other reasons but here is mine.....

1. Climate and Weather
2. Social Class and Status
3. Menopausal changes


1. The biological function of hair on the body is to insulate against harsh environmental elements. Because we are located in the hot humid equatorial forest our body hair growth is in such low density and length so as to aid in dissipating heat and cooling off the body.

Shaving off the hair or keepit it low makes cooling off easier.

2a. Ilari influence. The popularity of fade hair cut with Female Ilaris may have made this style trendy with women beyond palace walls.

2b. Head cover as a social status. Young unweded Yoruba women traditionally wear light cover on their head in public. Wedded women in child bearing range and unweded mothers wear a light cover on head and an additional layer of light veil. This is required in a formal setting but expected in public outing. Women past child bearing age wera a light head cover and a thicker cover draped over the head and shoulders.

The layers trap in heat, therefore keeping short hair under the layers seem to be a compromise for cooling off.

3. With menopause comes a full bloom of grey tufts that top the dark undergrowth. Keeping that hair very short leaves the dark strands in view and makes the person appear younger than their actual age; they will therefore be assessed favorably for mating than would be the case otherwise.

Hope my answers helped somewhat.

Yes your answer has certainly given some clarity to me.

Thank you a lot, good job keep it up.

Proudly Yoruba

Katsumoto:

You mean the book where Lange asserted that Oranyan was the Biblical Jacob and lived around 700 Before Christ and that Ajaka was Isaac (800 BC) He also claimed Alaafin Abiodun, who must historians agree ruled in the late 18th century, was Nabopolassar? Lange was smoking something bad when he wrote that book.

If I get it correctly, Lange was only doing an academically-valid comparative analysis on the duals between the semitic kings and the Oyo kings. He used the oral stories and narrations on different kings, passed down about Oyo kingdom from generation to generation. True to his work, there were quite a lot of historical similarities in these stories when compared to that of their Semitic (Hebrew, Babylonian and Assyrian) kingline counterparts. Lange also spoke of such historical parallels present in the Hausa and Kanuri kingdoms. For example, in the ancient Oyo Kingdom, there was once a king called OLUASO whom Lange paralled his reign to that of Hebrew king JOASH. Anybody seeing these two names for the first time would see striking similarity in their names even without digging into their kingship periods.

While Lange may have exaggerated on some things, I have read His paper several times and I think his theories on Oyo peoples (as well as Yorubas) looks logical enough. The only shortcoming is that we don't have enough information from our past to prove him right or wrong. No dates, no pictures, no writings...even the famous Oyo kingdom couldn't provide accurate historical periods and interregnums before 1728! We are left only with assumptions and guesses, as given from Oral history. Yoruba archaeology and chronology is very much open to debate because we don't yet have enough information dating back to over 400 years except oral history...

For anybody interested in the OYO kingline list, you can check this wikipedia source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_the_Yoruba_state_of_Oyo

For those interested in Lange's comparison, I have placed it as an attachment below...

And might I add OLU-ASO and JO-ASH (or JEHO-ASH) have their names starting with "GOD of"

OLU has the same meaning as EL, a supreme deity with ancient Egyptian and/or Semitic roots. The equivalence of which is "JEHOVAH, YAHWEH or JAH" in ancient Hebrew and Canaanite periods. Hence, we now have other names like OLUWA, OLODUMARE, OLORUN e.t.c. in modern Yoruba language.

Tony Spike: And might I add OLU-ASO and JO-ASH (or JEHO-ASH) have their names starting with "GOD of"

OLU has the same meaning as EL, a supreme deity with ancient Egyptian and/or Semitic roots. The equivalence of which is "JEHOVAH, YAHWEH or JAH" in ancient Hebrew and Canaanite periods. Hence, we now have other names like OLUWA, OLODUMARE, OLORUN e.t.c. in modern Yoruba language.

HEY CUT THE CRAP. SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT BUT DONT YOU DARE ASSOCIATE OUR RELIGION AND GODS WITH THIS JEWISH BULLSH!T.


TOMORROW YOU WILL SAY ALLAH ( AL-ILAH , THE GOD), is the Supreme God from AlODUMAARE/OLODUMARE IS DERIVED. YOU PPL ARE A BUNCH OF FRIGGIN LIARS!

What fails to amaze me is that some people cannot seem to understand that the purported near east origin of yorubas is just a theory, THEORY not a law.. it is open to discussion and critic, no need to get angry, let us argue with science and facts.

Funny enough, i lend myself well to a near eastern origin for yorubas than the benin or heaven theories. Going by bible chronology, In pre-history, egypt was a land occupied by mizraim, one of the sons of ham, now check out this statement about ham from the zondervan's compact bible dictionary >>>>>

"Ham – The youngest son of Noah, born probably about 96 years before the Flood; and one of eight persons to live through the Flood. He became the progenitor of the dark races; not the Negroes, but the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites."

notice the bolded statement. the negroes(west africans and sahels) are not from ham, so if we are not from ham where are we from??

^^^^^^^^^Not all Africans are Negroes. we are different tribes and Ethnic groups and our features vary as per say. we all have different and at times overlapping roots.

Just do a google search on negroland and you will understand. There were two distinctions made by the european explorers on the geography of West Africa: In the north (upper sahel region) you have NEGROLAND, and in our region (nigeria ghana benin etc) you have GUINEALAND

Its so sad that i cannot post pictures from other websites here but i have an ancient map of west africa which clearly identifies the KINGDOM OF WHIDAH, OUDAH, JUDAH!!

NOW ANSWER ME, WHY WOULD PEOPLE FROM BENIN REPUBLIC CALL THEMSELVES THE KINGDOM OF JUDAH IN PREHISTORY!!!!

tothemax86: Just do a google search on negroland and you will understand. There were two distinctions made by the european explorers on the geography of West Africa: In the north (upper sahel region) you have NEGROLAND, and in our region (nigeria ghana benin etc) you have GUINEALAND

^^^^

wtf? I can believe some people still hold on to all these old outdated colonial ways of viewing things.

you guyz remind me of that christian who tells me the other day, check the bible. it say the Earth is flat.

PAGAN 9JA:



HEY CUT THE CRAP. SAY ANYTHING YOU WANT BUT DONT YOU DARE ASSOCIATE OUR RELIGION AND GODS WITH THIS JEWISH BULLSH!T.


TOMORROW YOU WILL SAY ALLAH ( AL-ILAH , THE GOD), is the Supreme God from AlODUMAARE/OLODUMARE IS DERIVED. YOU PPL ARE A BUNCH OF FRIGGIN LIARS!

I was expecting you, Pagan9ja and you never failed to impress me. You can shout all you can...

I just opened this thread for the first time and all of a sudden, everywhere started smelling like dawa-dawa.

tothemax86: What fails to amaze me is that some people cannot seem to understand that the purported near east origin of yorubas is just a theory, THEORY not a law.. it is open to discussion and critic, no need to get angry, let us argue with science and facts.

Funny enough, i lend myself well to a near eastern origin for yorubas than the benin or heaven theories. Going by bible chronology, In pre-history, egypt was a land occupied by mizraim, one of the sons of ham, now check out this statement about ham from the zondervan's compact bible dictionary >>>>>

"Ham – The youngest son of Noah, born probably about 96 years before the Flood; and one of eight persons to live through the Flood. He became the progenitor of the dark races; not the Negroes, but the Egyptians, Ethiopians, Libyans and Canaanites."

notice the bolded statement. the negroes(west africans and sahels) are not from ham, so if we are not from ham where are we from??

Oga,u only decided changing ur position wen saw ur lapse.wat u said b4 isn't d same as u said yorubas had connections dat neva existed B4(wit d israelis).
OR I dnt know wen we v turned yoruba jews like igbos ..

PAGAN 9JA:


^^^^

wtf? I can believe some people still hold on to all these old outdated colonial ways of viewing things.

you guyz remind me of that christian who tells me the other day, check the bible. it say the Earth is flat.

Why do you even bother with those kind of people? Most of them very stupid and will never bother to learn.

Rgp92:

Why do you even bother with those kind of people? Most of them very stupid and will never bother to learn.

I dont know bro. Sometimes it gets very frustrating to repeat the same thing over and over again. I try not to reply but these people force me.

Tony Spike:

If I get it correctly, Lange was only doing an academically-valid comparative analysis on the duals between the semitic kings and the Oyo kings. He used the oral stories and narrations on different kings, passed down about Oyo kingdom from generation to generation. True to his work, there were quite a lot of historical similarities in these stories when compared to that of their Semitic (Hebrew, Babylonian and Assyrian) kingline counterparts. Lange also spoke of such historical parallels present in the Hausa and Kanuri kingdoms. For example, in the ancient Oyo Kingdom, there was once a king called OLUASO whom Lange paralled his reign to that of Hebrew king JOASH. Anybody seeing these two names for the first time would see striking similarity in their names even without digging into their kingship periods.

While Lange may have exaggerated on some things, I have read His paper several times and I think his theories on Oyo peoples (as well as Yorubas) looks logical enough. The only shortcoming is that we don't have enough information from our past to prove him right or wrong. No dates, no pictures, no writings...even the famous Oyo kingdom couldn't provide accurate historical periods and interregnums before 1728! We are left only with assumptions and guesses, as given from Oral history. Yoruba archaeology and chronology is very much open to debate because we don't yet have enough information dating back to over 400 years except oral history...

For anybody interested in the OYO kingline list, you can check this wikipedia source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_the_Yoruba_state_of_Oyo

For those interested in Lange's comparison, I have placed it as an attachment below...

I am not sure I get your point. Alaafin Abiodun reigned just before Alaafin Awole Arogangan. If it is acknowledged and agreed that Afonja rebelled against Alaafin Awole in 1815- 1817, then how can Abiodun be Nabopolassar? Did Abiodun rule from 605 BC to 1815 AD?

If he is comparing Oyo kings to Semitic kings, then I don't see the purpose of such comparisons. How can Lamurudu be Sargon when Sargon had a son called Tiamat who became king in Akkad while Lamurudu had a son called Oduduwa who was king at Ife? I don't see the similarity between Joash and Oluaso and even if there is a similarity in those names, what does it prove? Why aren't the other parallel king names similar?

I am unsure of what point you are trying to make; please elucidate further.

Katsumoto:

I am not sure I get your point. Alaafin Abiodun reigned before Alaafin Awole Arogangan. If it is acknowledged and that Afonja rebelled against Alaafin Awole in 1815- 1817, then how can Abiodun be Nabopolassar? Did Abiodun rule from 605 BC to 1815 AD?

If he is comparing Oyo kings to Semitic kings, then I don't see the purpose of such. How can Lamurudu be Sargon when Sargon had a son called Tiamat who became king in Akkad while Lamurudu had a son called Oduduwa who was king at Ife? I don't see the similarity between Joash and Oluaso and even if there is a similarity in those names, what does it prove? Why aren't the other parallel king names similar?

I am unsure of what point you are trying to make; please elucidate further.

9jacrip:

Well i have read lange's book and it appears i arrived at a different conclusion from Tony Spike. So I am stumped and wondering whether i missed something. One cant always assume one reached the right conclusion. Thats why i am asking for clarification, nothing else.

Dudu_Negro:

Katz,

A hardworking and busy man never gets the time he wants, he must take the time given to him in the affairs of events. This time has been given to you. Take the opportunity. There is a ginned up interest and drive for a deep dive understanding of Yoruba culture in all its varied facets. Go ahead and open the post, your availability will open up in ways you had not anticipated and you will find you have the time and energy to dedicate to it. You will not regret doing so. We will support you in our various expertise but conflicting subject areas.

I get you chief Dudu. Problem is I move around a bit and sometimes, i have no internet access or have slow connections. So i am left with cell phone browsing which is not good for debate plus roaming charges kill me. But i will get to it. Thanks

Katsumoto:

Well i have read lange's book and it appears i arrived at a different conclusion from Tony Spike. So I am stumped and wondering whether i missed something. One cant always assume one reached the right conclusion. Thats why i am asking for clarification, nothing else.

I dig.

The missing link here is that, you all keep detaching Israel from Africa.

PAGAN 9JA:


^^^^

wtf? I can believe some people still hold on to all these old outdated colonial ways of viewing things.

you guyz remind me of that christian who tells me the other day, check the bible. it say the Earth is flat.

We have to revert to our own culture and tradition before we can move from the state we are right now ..Christianity and western culture influence have done us much harm than Good . Western culture suppresses the men give the women so called women right "where as women have always been seen as sacred to us".they let them know they have a right to sample varieties of joysticks as possible before they marry , Now is gay right .

When gun power musketeer and canons were introduced to us ..The iron workers "Ogun worshipers then were fabricating the guns and canons and so many intricate iron amenities..2013 They are so many churches we find it hard to produce tooth pick , matches . Religion is understanding and control of the material world .

Obalufon:


We have to revert to our own culture and tradition before we can move from the state we are right now ..Christianity and western culture influence have done us much harm than Good . Western culture suppresses the men give the women so called women right "where as women have always been seen as sacred to us".they let them know they have a right to sample varieties of joysticks as possible before they marry , Now is gay right .

When gun power musketeer and canons were introduced to us ..The iron workers "Ogun worshipers then were fabricating the guns and canons and so many intricate iron amenities..2013 They are so many churches we find it hard to produce tooth pick , matches . Religion is understanding and control of the material world .

I like this!