I attended a church service yesterday and the preacher was an invited prophet,he proclaimed visions to church members.I noticed that invited guest now a days urge congregations to donate money before they experience testimonies and miracles(is this their tactics to generate money for the church as a guest speakers)
Another thing i observed is that,they tell people "you will travel this year" as a prophetic utterance.some people are being brainwashed because of this(maybe they believe there are trees that produces money in oversea) .
I'm saying this because i'm an instrumentalist and i have been to so many church programs where guest speaks such as prophet,apostle etc are invited, majority of them engage in this tactics.

I stand to be corrected if my perception is wrong.

It's a rub my back I rub your back kind of thing, these guest speakers expect to be paid honorarium for their performance. The more money they can milk from the congregation, the higher their honorarium. That's why they go to all extents telling lies and twisting scriptures just to manipulate believers into giving more.

Pastor Kun: It's a rub my back I rub your back kind of thing, these guest speakers expect to be paid honorarium for their performance. The more money they can milk from the congregation, the higher their honorarium. That's why they go to all extents telling lies and twisting scriptures just to manipulate believers into giving more.

GOD BLESS YOU. WE HAVE SO MUCH WORK TO DO INSIDE THE CHURCH THAN OUTSIDE.

Pastor Kun: It's a rub my back I rub your back kind of thing, these guest speakers expect to be paid honorarium for their performance. The more money they can milk from the congregation, the higher their honorarium. That's why they go to all extents telling lies and twisting scriptures just to manipulate believers into giving more.

Pastor Kun...You're very correct, infact the prophet told the congregation to give out all in their purse(empty their purse i mean MONEY) infact i'm also part of them oo, i empty my wallet yesterday because i dont want to be disobedient. God forgive me, he even manipulated the bible yesterday saying SACRIFICE is greater, but according to the bible LORD does not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices but obeying the LORD?

"Obedience is Better Than Sacrifice."

I think one need to be careful with churches we attend this days,because it seems some clergy are trained to extract money from congregation.

james2man:

Pastor Kun...You're very correct, infact the prophet told the congregation to give out all in their purse(empty their purse i mean MONEY) infact i'm also part of them oo, i empty my wallet yesterday because i dont want to be disobedient. God forgive me, he even manipulated the bible yesterday saying SACRIFICE is greater, but according to the bible LORD does not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices but obeying the LORD?

"Obedience is Better Than Sacrifice."

I think one need to be careful with churches we attend this days,because it seems some clergy are trained to extract money from congregation.

Sorry to say this, you acted foolishly if you joined to empty yourself. No insult meant please BUT God I know doesn't blessed coerced giving, only cheerful giving. You have options then, walk out of the service, NEVER TO RETURN TO THAT CHURCH. 2, hold or control yourself & lastly, pretend to give testimony and when you have the microphone, tell them what they are doing is wrong according to scripture.

james2man:

Pastor Kun...You're very correct, infact the prophet told the congregation to give out all in their purse(empty their purse i mean MONEY) infact i'm also part of them oo, i empty my wallet yesterday because i dont want to be disobedient. God forgive me, he even manipulated the bible yesterday saying SACRIFICE is greater, but according to the bible LORD does not delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices but obeying the LORD?

"Obedience is Better Than Sacrifice."

I think one need to be careful with churches we attend this days,because it seems some clergy are trained to extract money from congregation.

Using invited preachers to do their dirty work of extorting the congregation is a common tactic used by manipulative preachers since the host pastor doesn't want to appear to be the one exploiting his own congregation and there is denialbility when the so called prophecies fail to happen. It's all an elaborate organised scam.

@james, you acted wisely. I believe as lead by d spirit of God.

Though, the Holy Book says obedience is better than sacrifice, it did not claerly rule out the power of sacrifice or the power in obeying to sacrifice you did well by obeying the spirit and the servant of God.

Dont be too smart in your eyes.

Pastor Kun:

Using invited preachers to do their dirty work of extorting the congregation is a common tactic used by manipulative preachers since the host pastor doesn't want to appear to be the one exploiting his own congregation and there is denialbility when the so called prophecies fail to happen. It's all an elaborate organised scam.

Goshen360:

Sorry to say this, you acted foolishly if you joined to empty yourself. No insult meant please BUT God I know doesn't blessed coerced giving, only cheerful giving. You have options then, walk out of the service, NEVER TO RETURN TO THAT CHURCH. 2, hold or control yourself & lastly, pretend to give testimony and when you have the microphone, tell them what they are doing is wrong according to scripture.

Don't say the God you know, like uve met God one on one.

The average human been is greedy and empty, Thi king he knows all but actually knows nothing. He needs to be taught. We all came into this world empty and we learnt everything we know. Either by force, coercion or by any other means. Allow others to grow as u have grown.

oiseworld: @james, you acted wisely. I believe as lead by d spirit of God.

Though, the Holy Book says obedience is better than sacrifice, it did not claerly rule out the power of sacrifice or the power in obeying to sacrifice you did well by obeying the spirit and the servant of God.

Dont be too smart in your eyes.

Thanks for your comment,in the aspect of OBEDIENCE & SACRIFICE. Now i understand that without obedience there can't be sacrifice. Obedience first and indirectly sacrifice comes in.

Pastor Kun:

Using invited preachers to do their dirty work of extorting the congregation is a common tactic used by manipulative preachers since the host pastor doesn't want to appear to be the one exploiting his own congregation and there is denialbility when the so called prophecies fail to happen. It's all an elaborate organised scam.

You're right, the congregation are not going to turn up to their expectations even if the host pastor try any mean of raising fund. God help us.

Goshen360:

Sorry to say this, you acted foolishly if you joined to empty yourself. No insult meant please BUT God I know doesn't blessed coerced giving, only cheerful giving. You have options then, walk out of the service, NEVER TO RETURN TO THAT CHURCH. 2, hold or control yourself & lastly, pretend to give testimony and when you have the microphone, tell them what they are doing is wrong according to scripture.

I understand your point @Goshen360 but for as long i'm under his voice and i heard him i just have to follow the scripture OBEDIENCE. immediately i empty my wallet i left the church, just to avoid more drama (God forgive me).

james2man:

Thanks for your comment,in the aspect of OBEDIENCE & SACRIFICE. Now i understand that without obedience there can't be sacrifice. Obedience first and indirectly sacrifice comes in.

Obedience for what and to whom ?

Obedience to GOD IS paramount , but I will like to know the obedience referred to in this case.

Just because a MAN calls himself a prophet or pastor or teacher does not mean he is called by GOD , you must test the spirits.

Also there is a pattern for giving , why are you giving, who are you giving to etc.

oiseworld:

Don't say the God you know, like uve met God one on one.

The average human been is greedy and empty, Thi king he knows all but actually knows nothing. He needs to be taught. We all came into this world empty and we learnt everything we know. Either by force, coercion or by any other means. Allow others to grow as u have grown.

When I say the God I know, doesn't mean I have seen or met God one on one. You should understand it to mean THROUGH HIS WORD. Again, the God I know doesn't force or coerce his children into giving. Even Adam was left to his will. God will ONLY lay it plain and make you see reasons for sacrifice and the rest of it.

Now, we're talking about giving; perhaps sacrificial giving. How do you make a giving sacrificial when you force it out of people? That's against the scriptural context of sacrificial giving. That's taking advantage of God's people in the office of a prophet or Apostle, whatever their title is. We do not have such practice among the church of God in the early Christians. You people should begin to stand against all these false practices in the church of God and say the truth irrespective on whose toes we step on.

I hav said dis b4, neva give to d church because you expect triple in return. GOD IS NOT A MONEYDOUBLER.when you donate, do it willingly,voluntarily. Expect nothing in return.

@ Brother Frosbel,

Please, I need you to find that video where someone (a man) pretended to give testimony and exposed that false teacher woman you once posted. I need you to post it here please. Thank you.

frosbel:

Obedience for what and to whom ?

Obedience to GOD IS paramount , but I will like to know the obedience referred to in this case.

Just because a MAN calls himself a prophet or pastor or teacher does not mean he is called my GOD , you must test the spirits.

Also there is a pattern for giving , why are you giving, who are you giving to etc.

Can you explain sir how can one test the spirits? I don't understand you.

tobechi74: I hav said dis b4, neva give to d church because you expect triple in return. GOD IS NOT A MONEYDOUBLER.when you donate, do it willingly,voluntarily. Expect nothing in return.

GOD BLESS YOU ETERNALLY AND YOUR GENERATION. The Nigeria Church need to know and understand that when Christ summarized the law of Moses in LOVE. Everything a New Testament believer does MUST flow out FROM THAT FOUNDATION OF LOVE. We don't give because we want to be blessed, we give because we're already blessed and that God first loved us and so he gave his only begotten Son. We need to begin to stand against all these false teachings. This is the generation of they that seek the Lord and worship in spirit and in TRUTH. We can't continue to keep this quiet no more.

james2man:

Can you explain sir how can one test the spirits? I don't understand you.

To test the spirit, you must know and be grounded in the word - one scripture leading to giving MUST not contradict each other PLUS be led by God's Spirit. That's where the blessings comes to be. I know your spirit is quite against what the man was doing but ONLY God can reward you or not but God I know doesn't reward grumble giving.

Goshen360:

To test the spirit, you must know and be grounded in the word - one scripture leading to giving MUST not contradict each other PLUS be led by God's Spirit. That's where the blessings comes to be. I know your spirit is quite against what the man was doing but ONLY God can reward you or not but God I know doesn't reward grumble giving.

Thanks for the insight,well understood. The big issue is that you don't know who is who in the house of God,it's true my spirit is quite against him. But he started saying strange things, calling people by their full names. confronting the host pastors to be honest if he had ever asked for people's names before the programs or if he had ever done any background check.

All this things are just strange, honestly this is why i don't like to be around all this so call prophets, because if they instruct you to do something and you refuse expect the worse. (Imagine he said in one of his program,he told a man that he is going to die of stroke if he didn't pray for him(i mean the prophet)he said the church elders were angry for his statement and the host pastor begged him to pray for the man but he refused,but after some months later the MAN actually died of stoke.

Na sharp sharp you go respond if such prophet ask you to do something.Just to let go.

^ It is because you don't know God too well and His word. Seriously. A prophet in the Bible was sent by God to tell a king he will die. The same king turned his face to the wall and to God and prayed. Before the prophet stepped out of the king's palace, God told the prophet again to go back and tell the king he will live. Why? That king knows God and keyed into God's word - Now, that is OLD TESTAMENT.

Christians have immeasurable blessings in Christ. In Christ dwells the FULLNESS of the Godhead bodily. When these people begins to use fear to intimidate Christians into giving, it is not God's way. Off course, won't you expect someone that wants to exploit to follow up with all kinds of stories that leads to fear?

New International Version (©2011)
For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline. 2 Timothy 1:7

New International Version (©2011)
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 1 John 4:18

Goshen360:

ONLY God can reward you or not but God I know doesn't reward grumble giving.

And He doesn't reward greedy giving too, just as Tobechi said.
Many times, Christians give without grumbling but with wanton desire similar to the get rich quick.

Goshen360:

When I say the God I know, doesn't mean I have seen or met God one on one. You should understand it to mean THROUGH HIS WORD. Again, the God I know doesn't force or coerce his children into giving. Even Adam was left to his will. God will ONLY lay it plain and make you see reasons for sacrifice and the rest of it.

Now, we're talking about giving; perhaps sacrificial giving. How do you make a giving sacrificial when you force it out of people? That's against the scriptural context of sacrificial giving. That's taking advantage of God's people in the office of a prophet or Apostle, whatever their title is. We do not have such practice among the church of God in the early Christians. You people should begin to stand against all these false practices in the church of God and say the irrespective on whose toes we step on.

What would u say of Abraham, or the abrahamic faith as it is called. Would u say Abraham gave Isaac willingly, cheerfully and happy. Or would you say he just obeyed God ?

Secondly, for a growing Christian who does not have the ability to test spirits, would you say the should never give in churches because they don't know of which spirit the servant of God is ministering?

RedReact:
And He doesn't reward greedy giving too, just as Tobechi said.
Many times, Christians give without grumbling but with wanton desire similar to the get rich quick.

I kinds of giving attracts a reward. But the one given cheerfully attracts the most reward. And that is the point God wants us to get to. If you gi e only when you're happy, then why are you different from the unbelievers who do the same. Christians should cultivate the habit of giving mo matter the condition, situation or mood we fi d our self. The approach or the method used by the receiver to ask, should not always be brought into consideration at all times, but that God requires us to give.

Goshen360:

To test the spirit, you must know and be grounded in the word - one scripture leading to giving MUST not contradict each other PLUS [b]be led by God's Spirit. [/b]That's where the blessings comes to be. I know your spirit is quite against what the man was doing but ONLY God can reward you or not but God I know doesn't reward grumble giving.

Thank God you added the bolded, but u forgot to say the spirit of God in you is the paramount. Even the devil knows and understands the Bible in and out;page by page cover to cover.

Knowing the bible is one, gettig an understanding through the spirit is another and the key Thing.

i believe the young man at that point was carried away by the spirit of God and he gave all he had.

oiseworld:

Thank God you added the bolded, but u forgot to say the spirit of God in you is the paramount. Even the devil knows and understands the Bible in and out;page by page cover to cover.

Knowing the bible is one, gettig an understanding through the spirit is another and the key Thing.

i believe the young man at that point was carried away by the spirit of God and he gave all he had.

For starters, not every one who claims to be a pastor is actually one, so to say that one must follow whatever any pastor says hook line and sinker just to show obedience even when like the op, the individual is not convinced, is a fatal error. If I claim to be a pastor and then I demand in God's name that you empty your account and credit all to mine, will you? After all in your own words, you will have obeyed the servant of the Lord (Me). Now if you object to this then its hypocrisy, thus you previous submissions are invalid. Shalom

Double Post

oiseworld:

Thank God you added the bolded, but u forgot to say the spirit of God in you is the paramount. Even the devil knows and understands the Bible in and out;page by page cover to cover.

Knowing the bible is one, gettig an understanding through the spirit is another and the key Thing.

i believe the young man at that point was carried away by the spirit of God and he gave all he had.

Wrong sir! The Spirit of God doesn't contradict the word he authored. The Spirit of God uses the word to guide and lead us into all truth. The word itself is truth, John 17:17 and Christ said, the Spirit of truth will guide you into ALL truth, John 16:13; what that simply means is that, the Spirit of God will use the word, which is truth to guide you\us. We're not to go against what is written or go beyond what is written for us, especially in the dispensation of the New Testament that we belong. There's a pattern of giving in the scriptures - it must not be of force or of necessity or grudgingly or out of compulsion.

PalmTree:

For starters, not every one who claims to be a pastor is actually one, so to say that one must follow whatever any pastor says hook line and sinker just to show obedience even when like the op, the individual is not convinced, is a fatal error. If I claim to be a pastor and then I demand in God's name that you empty your account and credit all to mine, will you? After all in your own words, you will have obeyed the servant of the Lord (Me). Now if you object to this then its hypocrisy, thus you previous submissions are invalid. Shalom

Very true.

Our perfect role model is Christ not fallible MEN. We are to obey GOD before MAN at all times.

PalmTree:

For starters, not every one who claims to be a pastor is actually one, so to say that one must follow whatever any pastor says hook line and sinker just to show obedience even when like the op, the individual is not convinced, is a fatal error. If I claim to be a pastor and then I demand in God's name that you empty your account and credit all to mine, will you? After all in your own words, you will have obeyed the servant of the Lord (Me). Now if you object to this then its hypocrisy, thus you previous submissions are invalid. Shalom

You are misunderstanding my post.

Now, nobody has ever seen God, and none has given to God. He even that which we own was given unto us freely by God. But yet, we give to God daily by giving to others.
Every man of God have spoken and taught from the scripture( the word of God). So they didn't send them selves. They go to the extent of making it clear that when you give you give to God, you should expect a reward. You then in return release physical cash (which is what you have) with the mind that you have released the money for the master. Now what you ha e given to God is that your spirit is submissive to him, there fore bearing withness that you have obeyed. You didn't. Give to the pastor or the church but to God.

It surprises me when someone claims to have given his life to Christ and yet believes his offerings,tithes, seeds gifts which he intends giving to God, he's giving to man.

PalmTree:

For starters, not every one who claims to be a pastor is actually one, so to say that one must follow whatever any pastor says hook line and sinker just to show obedience even when like the op, the individual is not convinced, is a fatal error. If I claim to be a pastor and then I demand in God's name that you empty your account and credit all to mine, will you? After all in your own words, you will have obeyed the servant of the Lord (Me). Now if you object to this then its hypocrisy, thus you previous submissions are invalid. Shalom

Christianity is not stupidity, neither does it give room for foolishness.
Thanks bro.

Goshen360:

Wrong sir! The Spirit of God doesn't contradict the word he authored. The Spirit of God uses the word to guide and lead us into all truth. The word itself is truth, John 17:17 and Christ said, the Spirit of truth will guide you into ALL truth, John 16:13; what that simply means is that, the Spirit of God will use the word, which is truth to guide you\us. We're not to go against what is written or go beyond what is written for us, especially in the dispensation of the New Testament that we belong. There's a pattern of giving in the scriptures - it must not be of force or of necessity or grudgingly or out of compulsion.

God does not force anyone to give. But he commands it. I don't want to call that compulsion or force or giving out of necessity. But that it is the will of God and that is good enough for me to give to any extent and to any depth.

oiseworld:

God does not force anyone to give. But he commands it. I don't want to call that compulsion or force or giving out of necessity. But that it is the will of God and that is good enough for me to give to any extent and to any depth.

oiseworld:

You are misunderstanding my post.


It surprises me when someone claims to have given his life to Christ and yet believes his offerings,tithes, seeds gifts which he intends giving to God, he's giving to man.

Give to GOD

Is this some kind of laugh or what .

People like you irk me, you try to place burdens on people that you refuse to carry.

The scripture is so plain to see for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, alas for the so called MOG who are lazy and refuse to work, they would rather live off poor people.

What a disgrace !!