Aigbofa: Don't try to convince a schizophrenic that his is not the king of England. It is a waste of time.

Aigbofa: Don't try to convince a schizophrenic that his is not the king of England. It is a waste of time.

The.Big.Urban:
[img]http://jewishstudies.unibas.ch/fileadmin/jewishstudies2/user_upload/redaktion/Bilder/wedding2.jpeg[/img]



The Igbo people have a history that is older than even the Hebrew language and Jewish history. There are cultural items from the Igbo tradition that have been dated to around 4,000 BC. However, there is a cultural and religious phenomenon of the Igbo Jews, most of who claim to be descendants of Jews (one of the lost tribes of Israel) based on Biblical genealogy and speculations. The Igbo Jews have received some attention from the wider Jewish community, even though a solid historical connection has never been established.

Personally, I believe that everyone has a right to believe what they want to believe and follow whatever religion they want to follow. However, one must be careful not to put his or her personal beliefs in front of evidence and facts when it comes to policies that affect the public. The Igbo Jews have every right to follow the Jewish religion but it is another thing to claim to be of Jewish descent. Claiming Jewish descent has real implications because the Igbo history as we know it already contradicts it and the question of whether certain Igbo people would then have the right to immigrate to Israel as Jewish citizens would arise.

Another stumbling block for the Igbo Jews is that the state of Israel does not officially recognize them as one of the Lost Tribes of Israel. Even though the Igbo Jews receive some support from the wider Jewish community, this represents a serious problem for their claims of descent. An official recognition could have at least made up for the missing links in their claims of descent.

In summary, the Igbo Jews and their claim of Jewish descent could be said to be a farce; a mixture of religion and ethnicity that should be separate but unfortunately kept together based on a myth and flimsy evidence. This only adds to the shady image that Nigeria is already plagued with. One can only hope that they focus on the religion rather than the unfounded ancestory.



Full article here;

http://thebigurban.com/2013/01/igbo-jews-problem-to-nigerian-history/



NB; The OP is part Igbo himself

Rossikk:

This writer has very little knowledge of history and really should keep his mouth shut until he learns about research.

For instance, how does common African ancestry of 200,000 years ago obviate the possibility of ancient Igbo migration from the 'middle east' - a region which back in history was easily seen as a part of Africa itself? The first Africans left the continent several tens of thousands of years ago and peopled the planet. There has always been migration AND reverse migration with regard to Africa. Does the writer know that the entire north Africa was once peopled by black Africans? Why else did all the ancient Greek visitors to Egypt describe the Egyptians as 'very black, like the Ethiopians' 2000 years ago? There is a preponderance of evidence to support the fact that large African populations lived in the so called ''middle east'' in antiquity. As well as north Africa. Most ethnic groups in west and central Africa have a history, passed down to them over generations, of migration 'from the north'. So it is foolhardy for this writer to glibly dismiss the idea of Igbo links to the ancient land of Israel, apparently without conducting even the most basic research into the subject. Fact is there ARE several indisputable cultural congruences between the two regions which definitely suggest an ancient link. The writer would do himself and his readers a favour by investigating such links rather than being lazy and foolishly disrespecting the people who ''claim'' to have deciphered such connections.

Aigbofa: Don't try to convince a schizophrenic that his is not the king of England. It is a waste of time.

Dudu_Negro:



o boy, you are nuts!!

the question of whether certain Igbo people would then have the right to immigrate to Israel emigrate out of Nigeria as Jewish citizens would arise.

The.Big.Urban:




Simple geography will tell you that

a) Isreal is not in Africa

b) Nigeria is in West Africa
c) West Africa is different from The Middle East and North Africa.

Simple History will tell you that
a) The Igbo people have a history older than the Jews and as such can not be descendant of Jews.

Simple political knowledge will tell you that
a) The Jews themselves have no solid evidence to legitimize the claim of some Igbos being descendants of Jews.

b) The state of Isreal doesnt recognize Igbo Jews

Rossikk:

Simple common sense will tell you it is irrelevant if Israel is in Africa or not.



There was a LOT of migration between all three regions in antiquity. Causes of migration, especially from north to south, included foreign invasions and desertification of the once fertile Sahara.



You don't understand the connection. Igbos are not claiming to descend from the present day people of Israel who describe themselves as Jews. Many of the modern Israeli 'Jews' are just descendants of European Khazars, a Soviet ethnic group, and are a mishmash of Europeans and local descendants of foreign invaders. The ORIGINAL Jewish population were in all likelihood, black and brown people who migrated up there from Africa millenia ago. So The Igbos would in fact be the ''real Jews'' who were among those dispersed by invasions in antiquity, as opposed to the present day Israeli 'Jews'.




How will they have any evidence when they themselves are newcomers to the region? If anything it is Igbos that should be demanding evidence that the present day occupiers of Israel are Jews, NOT the other way round.



Utterly and completely irrelevant.

Les: Ur son got lost in his toddler's age. Someone picked him and and kept him as her son even tho she knew you, his father. While he grows up, she tells ur son dat you are his father and after so many years, ur son comes back to you claiming to be ur son, will you believe? It's upto to accept him as ur son or discard his claim in which d Jews are doing d later. There's a lost tribe, Yes!! But is there any other tribe dat has claimed to occupy dat position. Now, one is doin so with so much similarity, why then do ppl u call it fake?? Dont u tink d white Jews dont wanna accept any black heritage but can attest to their claim thereby rejecting them tho not completely by supporting them in one way or the other?? Why do you think they support them if they dont see any truth in their claim or similarites btw them?
Am not saying Igbos are Jews, but for someone to wake up one morning to call ur origin/wat u strongly believe to be ur origin, fake is dehumanising and a big slap to d face. Pls, stop hating and show some respect!!

The.Big.Urban:




You and the igbo jews have no solid evidence for your claims. All you have are speculations "there might have been some migration...."

The Jews know their history and they know that Igbos do not share a part of it. So do majority of igbo who do not claim to be Jewish.

The.Big.Urban:




There is no concrete evidence to their claims of being Jewish. Not one single concrete evidence to their claims.

Furthermore, they have a history and culture older than the Jews, they can not be "sons" of Jews impossible. At best, they can speculate that Jews came in the early centuries and left......which has no basis in history

Rossikk:

You're obviously a thick dunderhead with no common sense, and no interest in learning. You've already made up your mind about the illiterate garbage you posted so why waste time educating you? And kindly desist from misquoting me in your future posts.

''Solid evidence'' my foot. Have you asked yourself what ''solid evidence'' the present occupiers of Israel have that they are related to the ancient Jews? You sit there being a slave to their haughty claims and dictates and expect the rest of us to queue up behind you?

Les: that is wat u said or that is wat someone else said and you chose to believe that person other than d Igbos for some reasons known to you. Lemme ask u, do you know there is something known as white slavery, It happened long b4 d black slavery but whites keep it secrete in one way or the other. Wat am I saying, dont underestimate ppl esp d whites, they are good in manipulation. It's a pity you are objected to it. Sir, you are not Igbo or a Jew, leave them alone to settle their scores.

Rossikk:

You're obviously a thick dunderhead with no common sense, and no interest in learning. You've already made up your mind about the illiterate garbage you posted so why waste time educating you? And kindly desist from misquoting me in your future posts.

''Solid evidence'' my foot. Have you asked yourself what ''solid evidence'' the present occupiers of Israel have that they are related to the ancient Jews? You sit there being a slave to their haughty claims and dictates and expect the rest of us to queue up behind you?

Aigbofa:

You really don't have to insult the guy, he only asked for evidence! Don't tell me you will tell the Israeli government to shut up if they asked you for evidence of your Jewish ancestry!

alex101: Now this is my personal take on this Igbo-Jewish relation/ancestry issue visavis nigerian political/conflict landscape:

I believe that Igbo may not be of Jewish ancestry (opinion formed based on the origin of man out of Africa), but one thing is certain and that is: Ndigbo, like Israel/Jews believe in the "sane principle" of life ("sane" is used here because not all principles are sane), which is "live and let live". The Jewish religion, like traditional Igbo belief system hold strongly unto this principle . This is why most Igbo that practise/convert to Judaism "effortlessly" fit into the Jewish religion and this is why you cannot disconnect this notion by substantial number of Igbo having affinity for Jew/Israel.

Now, I would strongly advise Igbo that believe in and/or adhere to Judaism not to waiver in the face of criticisms, emanating from any quarter in nigeria. Our problem(s) are not the Jews/Israel, rather our imminent threat to Igbo survival comes from northern nigerian Islamic terrorists. It's on this ground that I as an Igbo, strategically going forward, would not mind converting to Judaism, so long as it aids in my conquest of my enemies .

The.Big.Urban:




The OP is not against following Judaism. It is against a 100% Nigerian man with no traceable history of Jewishness or Jewry calling himself a descendant or lost tribe of Isreal.


#freedom of religion not freedom of claiming ancestry

Rossikk: Here's some education for ''Mr no evidence''

In 1789 Olauda Equiano, an Igbo and former slave who lived in London said in his autobiography that the Igbos were one of the lost tribes of Israel and cited the many identical cultural similarities between them and the Jews.
Missionaries when they came to Nigeria were dumbfounded to discover when they came to evangelize the Igbo People that the Igbo's practiced many Hebraic/Jewish customs which they could not have learned from anyone else, it had to come from ancient practice of their people from antiquity; for they had no Bibles and met no one with a Bible until the missionaries came along.
They found that the Igbo's practiced:
- Eating of animals that meet the Biblically clean requirements as well as the complete draining of blood from the animal as well as other laws concerning Kashrut;
- The use of ritual washings like unto the mikvah;
- Washing of Hand before and after meals;
- Has a concept of clean and unclean, acceptable and abominable or taboo;
- Animal sacrifice like unto the Levitical sacrificial system;
- Believe in a Supreme, All-Powerful Deity (Chukwu) above all other deities;
- Circumcision on the 8th day as well as had the naming ceremony of the 8 day old child;
- Giving names that bear the name or title of G-d within it;
- Separation of menstruating women;
- Adah or Ada the name of the second woman mentioned in the Bible after Eve/Chavah (Gen. 4:19-20) and is also the title used to address the first born daughters of Igbo families;
- The keeping a lunar calendar;
- Shemita and Jubilee years: The annulment of debt and servitude every seven and fifty years;
- Burying their dead facing East, the direction of Jerusalem and the Promised Land;
- Burying their dead as quickly as possible;
- Sitting Shiva (seven day mourning period where one sits on low stools, remains unkempt and shave their head in grief);
- Belief in a resurrection;
- Send the body's home of Igbos who die outside of Igboland to be buried, like Joseph and Jacob desiring not to be buried in a pagan or foreign land;
- Lengthy funeral ceremonies such as found in Gen. 50:1-3;
- Preference of Inheritance and leadership was given to the first born and passed down through the fathers;
- Sung prior too and carried a type of Ark into battle when they went to war;
- Hospitality like unto the traditions and legends know of Abraham Offering water, meal and lodging to travelers;
- Converse and deliberate among men and leaders like that of Rabbi's and students in a Yeshiva;
- Levirate type marriages, brothers marrying deceased brothers wives to carry on the brothers name;
- Marriage negotiations (Onye-aka-ebe) between families, like unto the story of Isaac and Rebecca;
- Polygamy;
- A type of, "Cities of Refuge," where an Igbo who has committed a crime can seek refuge in his mother's natal home, known in Igbo as, "Ikunne";
- The concept of Sanctuary, similar to the Igbo Osu caste concept where a victim of violence may flee to the altar (alusi) for divine protection (I Kings 2:28-30);
- Shunning of those who willingly break Igbo laws;
- Shunning of those who marry outside of the Igbo people;
- Laws against sexual perversion, incest and the like, they had to marry among their people but outside their immediate tribal clan;
- Justice and punishment for certain crimes followed the lines of, "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth";
- A rule of Torah (Law) was developed and was passed down by Eri;
- No jails or penal system;
- Rite of passage into adulthood;
- Governance of the people by a conglomerate of tribal elders and judges prior to the institution of kingship dynasties;
- The coronation of the Kings have rituals and customs that closely remember that of the coronation of Kings of Judah and Israel;
- Symbolic attire and accessories of the Kings and Elders closely resembled that of Kings and Tribal leaders of Judah and Israel.
These among many other Jewish laws and customs were found to be kept by the Igbo people and sadly, the Christian missionaries forced them to abandon many of these Hebraic practices because though they resembled Biblical worship of G-d, they believed many have been done away with due to the advent of Messiah and they believed they practiced these customs unto pagan gods and as such should be abandoned. The Igbo's are slowly beginning to return to the pre-missionary practices, desiring to return to their Hebraic roots.

http://igbofriendsofisrael.com/culturalevidence.html

Aigbofa:

You really don't have to insult the guy, he only asked for evidence! Don't tell me you will tell the Israeli government to shut up if they asked you for evidence of your Jewish ancestry!

Rossikk: Here's some education for ''Mr no evidence''


http://igbofriendsofisrael.com/culturalevidence.html

Rossikk: Here's some education for ''Mr no evidence''

In 1789 Olauda Equiano, an Igbo and former slave who lived in London said in his autobiography that the Igbos were one of the lost tribes of Israel and cited the many identical cultural similarities between them and the Jews.
Missionaries when they came to Nigeria were dumbfounded to discover when they came to evangelize the Igbo People that the Igbo's practiced many Hebraic/Jewish customs which they could not have learned from anyone else, it had to come from ancient practice of their people from antiquity; for they had no Bibles and met no one with a Bible until the missionaries came along.
They found that the Igbo's practiced:
...

These among many other Jewish laws and customs were found to be kept by the Igbo people and sadly, the Christian missionaries forced them to abandon many of these Hebraic practices because though they resembled Biblical worship of G-d, they believed many have been done away with due to the advent of Messiah and they believed they practiced these customs unto pagan gods and as such should be abandoned. The Igbo's are slowly beginning to return to the pre-missionary practices, desiring to return to their Hebraic roots.

http://igbofriendsofisrael.com/culturalevidence.html

alex101: I believe have the right to believe whatever they want, it's called freedom of expression. We have some northerners who believe that Uthman Dan'fodio is of Saudi Arabian descent, and I don't see Nigerians killing themselves over it. Anyway, I only came in here to put out what I believe will be useful to my folks going forward.

Rossikk:

He didn't 'ask' for evidence. He doesn't WANT any evidence. If he wanted evidence all it takes is a 5 minute Google search for Igbo/jewish similarities'', and he'd be inundated with all the evidence he seeks. I can smell his type from a mile. He's already written his beliefs on his blog, and needs to justify them. There is NOTHING you will post here that will be acceptable to him as ''evidence'' short of Abraham himself descending to confirm that Igbos have links to Israel. Nothing is ever ''concrete'' enough for people like him. I've been in this history business for decades. I know his type.

The.Big.Urban:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[size=18pt]
FALSE!!![/size]


1) Igbo traidtion/cuisine contains so many non-kosher food.
2) Igbos were pagans and polytheists unlike the Judaism practising Jewswho were monotheists
3) "An eye for an eye" is present in the history of all barbaric cultures in the world
4) Igbo kings were very different from Jewish ones



Yes, and the account of some solitary slave is quite flimsy, dont you thing