After having a fierce debate with friends about the current economic situation in Zimbabwe. I am convinced that Zimbabwe would be a better place if Ian Smith was still in power instead of black African rule. My friends disagree with me saying that Ian Smith was a racist dictator.

So my question is despite the huge corruption during the colonial time by our colonial masters "was Africa better off under during colonial rule?"

If 100 people were stopped at random throughout Zimbabwe and asked if they would rather see Mugabe as their president or Smith, were he still alive, the majority would say Smith - that is assuming they were able to give their answer without fear of retribution.

I must say. . .it was way better than what we have now.

africa was better for whites under colonial rule. there wouldn't have been screams for independence if life was that good.

whaaaattttt :-x :-x

@Poster

Are you out of your mind or what? How would u ever thought of that my brother?.We are better off without the Europeans.

Statistics show that Zimbabwe had only 2 indigenous engineers when independence was declared.
Now, what does that tell you?

There is something about self determination that is so much more preferable regardless of the outcome.

If I fail, if I succeed
at least I lived as I believed
no matter what they take from me
they can't take await my dignity

because the greatest love of all
is happening to me

Learning to RULE yourself
is the greatest love of all.

bawomolo:

africa was better for whites under colonial rule. there wouldn't have been screams for independence if life was that good.

The screams for independence came from a particular clique that had been trained by Europeans and were desperate to sink their greedy claws into africa, much like their masters had down. Turn by turn. Basically they were telling their master that europe had had it's turn and now it was their turn.

It was this clique of elites that did most if not all of the screaming.

The screams for independence came from a particular clique that had been trained by Europeans and were desperate to sink their greedy claws into africa

politicians like patrice lumumba didn't play greedy or tribalist politics. u seem to forget that many africans wanted to rule themselves and openly opposed british or other forms of taxation. africa wasn't that great when it was ruled by whites, southern african blacks were basically prisoners in their own country. namibia was mined to death then abandoned. congo only had two PHD holders right after independence. people should be allowed to rule themselves and determine their own destiny. it's sad, africans are having this argument. inferiority complex.

@ topic
Are you trying to tell me you guys can't rule yoursleves?

@topic,Some are better off without the slave masters,some are merely slaves of themselves by themselves,they have placed _{ignorantly or arrogantly} pepertual slavery upon themselves.eg . . .brb 

ifyalways:

@topic,Some are better off without the slave masters,some are merely slaves of themselves by themselves,they have placed _{ignorantly or arrogantly} pepertual slavery upon themselves.eg . . .brb

You did well

swing4real:

@Poster

.We are better off without the Europeans.

If the Europeans were still with us, we would have achieved socio economic development more than what is obtainable at the present moment. take a look at Southy African, they are developed because of the long existence of the white.

we would have achieved socio economic development more than what is obtainable at the present moment

what makes u think blacks would be part of the WE. there's income inequality in south africa based on race.

@ Poster. I cannot believe you. Ian Smith? Jesus! Thats like saying Black South Africans were better under apartheid.

swing4real:

@Poster

Are you out of your mind or what? How would u ever thought of that my brother?.We are better off without the Europeans.

Come on swing4real we don't have constant light, students finish school with little hope of getting a good job, our leaders are all corrupt i could go on and on. Am sure if our colonial masters would come tomorrow and take over Aso Rock we go see a big improvement in the economy in less than a year from now

nuzo:

Statistics show that Zimbabwe had only 2 indigenous engineers when independence was declared.
Now, what does that tell you?

Nuzo i agree with you that there were not many opportunities for indigenous Zimbabweans before independance, but look at Zimbabwe now? Am sure those 2 indigenous engineers plus all other skilled professionals would checkout immediately if they had the chance.

Pastor AIO:

There is something about self determination that is so much more preferable regardless of the outcome.

If I fail, if I succeed
at least I lived as I believed
no matter what they take from me
they can't take await my dignity

because the greatest love of all
is happening to me

Learning to RULE yourself
is the greatest love of all.

Me too am a fan of Whitney Houston, but when will we Africans learn to rule ourselves? I don't think it will happen in our lifetime. Do you?

Ibime:

@ Poster. I cannot believe you. Ian Smith? Jesus! Thats like saying Black South Africans were better under apartheid.

Ibime am not going to comment on whether Black South Africans were better under aparthied but look at South Africa now since when Thabo Mbeki took power there are 150 rapes a day, the police are so corrupt, car jacking and crime is rampant, talkless of AIDS.

Sentiment apart, who will truthfully argue that we are better of now than we were during the colonial rule? Some one said that Zimbabwe had two engineers before their independent and also Congo, he claimed had two whatever before their so called freedom. I wonder whether now they both had a truck load of graduates, whether they are buidling skyscrappers and flying to the moon. I will bet my backside that those two engineer before independent worth three times more than the post colonial 419 new ones. Mind you, most of those new PHDs were maybe obtained from the internet universities of Kansas.

Take certain inhumane racial laws away from the equation, African will be better off with the Europeans in charge .  Nelson Mandela knew this when he came out of prison to accomodate everybody. Leave South Africa to Africans alone, everything will all go up in smoke in seconds. But Africans like OBJ and Mugabe will be the first to disagree because of their monumental failures.
It's in our DNA to love what is ours eventhough it's pinching out backside. No one ever says his mothers soup is rubbish, even when you knew it's more than rubbish.

Eziachi:

Sentiment apart, who will truthfully argue that we are better of now than we were during the colonial rule? Some one said that Zimbabwe had two engineers before their independent and also Congo, he claimed had two whatever before their so called freedom. I wonder whether now they both had a truck load of graduates, whether they are buidling skyscrappers and flying to the moon. I will bet my backside that those two engineer before independent worth three times more than the post colonial 419 new ones. Mind you, most of those new PHDs were maybe obtained from the internet universities of Kansas.

Take certain inhumane racial laws away from the equation, African will be better off with the Europeans in charge . Nelson Mandela knew this when he came out of prison to accomodate everybody. Leave South Africa to Africans alone, everything will all go up in smoke in seconds. But Africans like OBJ and Mugabe will be the first to disagree because of their monumental failures.
It's in our DNA to love what is ours eventhough it's pinching out backside. No one ever says his mothers soup is rubbish, even when you knew it's more than rubbish.

Well said Eziachi

inferiority complex .

if asian countries can rise up after colonialism(not all of them) and even nuclear bombings , then why not Africans. it's obvious Africans don't believe in their self governance abilities.

inferiority complex .

if asian countries can rise up after colonialism(not all of them) and even nuclear bombings , then why not Africans. it's obvious Africans don't believe in their self governance abilities.

Eziachi:

Sentiment apart, who will truthfully argue that we are better of now than we were during the colonial rule? Some one said that Zimbabwe had two engineers before their independent and also Congo, he claimed had two whatever before their so called freedom. I wonder whether now they both had a truck load of graduates, whether they are buidling skyscrappers and flying to the moon. I will bet my backside that those two engineer before independent worth three times more than the post colonial 419 new ones. Mind you, most of those new PHDs were maybe obtained from the internet universities of Kansas.

Take certain inhumane racial laws away from the equation, African will be better off with the Europeans in charge . Nelson Mandela knew this when he came out of prison to accomodate everybody. Leave South Africa to Africans alone, everything will all go up in smoke in seconds. But Africans like OBJ and Mugabe will be the first to disagree because of their monumental failures.
It's in our DNA to love what is ours eventhough it's pinching out backside. No one ever says his mothers soup is rubbish, even when you knew it's more than rubbish.

A lot of truth in there.

A Thought:

It is a known fact of economics that when an economy/culture is blossoming it attracts labour (ie human resources) while a shrinking economy exports labour. This is true whether the means is by wilful migration or by Forced migration (slavery). When we consider the fact that Africa has been exporting labour for over 500 years at a rate that I don't think any other continent has experienced historically then I think that would suggest that in Africa we've got nothing going on.

Okay even if we accept the despicable practice of enslaving other humans. imagine an african king that has been approached by european slave traders. They want 10, 000 human slaves for their economy. Which kind of economy is prepared to lose 10, 000 of it's labour force, amongst whom are probably some geniuses of various fields of endeavour. If our Kings and chiefs were correct people with a vision for their nations they would balk. Afterall presumably they would have projects of their own for which they would need all that labour. Perhaps roads need building, or farms need irrigating and crops planted and harvested.

My explanation for the scale of the slave trade is that there was absolutely no vision in Africa. Our leaders had no ambition. Therefore no need for labour to implement the vision. The problem is a cultural one. And a Spiritual one. The dearth of vision ( a situation still prevalent today) suggests that there is something wrong with the African at a cultural and psychological level. As much as we like to give lip service to our culture the fact remains that a lot of african people are terribly uncultured. Without a cultural foundation to give direction and context to our lives we are just blowing in the wind, or as Baba Kuti so aptly put, we just dey roll like one yeye ball wey one yeye wind dey blow from one yeye corner.

In contrast European society has ideals that give their culture impetus (even though these ideals are starting to unravel under the influence of modern capitalism). If we don't have any ideals of our own then maybe we are better off borrowing the ideals of another or even allowing those who have ideals to kuku take over the reins of government.

Is anyone here going to invite the EU or shall I?

I know this topic is a bit old. But I would like to post a message about this because for the last days I've been thinking about how was the colonial rule compared to what came after independance. While my views were strongly anti-colonialism and very critical of the West, like everyone else's, I could not stop looking at the state of Africa with dictatorships, famine, civil war, boat people and ask myself if it was like that when these countries were colonies. My intuition was confirmed when I heard a panafrican militant that back in the 50's africa didn't had that image of a poverty-stricken land again months later I saw a documentary about Kinshasha-Congo where the speaker said that the capital lost its "colonial prosperity" due to years of tyranny and civil war. In an interview a togolese politician said during his campaign he went to every village of Togo and always talked the elders who told him: "It was better under white rule. There were schools, medical care, roads. Now it's all gone" the guy said such confessions made him want to cry. Well we can cry even more when we're reading that many africans in South Africa and Zimbabwe are saying that life was better under Ian Smith and under the apartheid. We need to take our responsibilities and say we have done more harm to ourselves than the white man ever did.

^^^Whoever is talking to you in places like Togo is a lying fool or an ignorant slave minded mor.on. For any Togolese to claim that there were ''more roads'' and ''more schools'' during the colonial rule of Togo is displaying the height of lying and wanton stupidity caused by racial inferiority complex and nothing else.

For your information, life expectancy of Togo at independence was 32 years. Sierra Leone, 35 years, Nigeria, 37 years etc etc. Today those figures are in the 50s and 60s, showing vast improvement of living standards under African rule.

Literacy rate in Togo at independence was UNDER 10% so it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to have been ''more schools'' or whatever fantasy you're here propagating, during colonial rule, in the same Togo where literacy is at 80% today. Infant mortality rate of Togo was something like 300 per 1000 at independence, showing a total neglect of health by the colonialists. That figure is about 80 per 1000 today under African rule, and falling year on year.

Same horrific percentages apply to the other black nations ruled by Europe. SO PLEASE STOP SPREADING LIES HERE. WE KNOW THE WEST RA.PED AFRICA DURING COLONIAL RULE, EXPORTING OUR RESOURCES AND MAKING HUGE PROFITS FOR THEIR ECONOMIES WHILE DOING NEXT TO NOTHING FOR THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA. Which was why despite 80 to 100 years of uninterrupted white rule, all black nations at independence were totally undeveloped and backward with almost non-existent infrastructure.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT AFRICA IS DOING FAR BETTER TODAY THAN IT WAS THEN - in every respect from infrastructure to education and health - and no amount of anti-black propaganda by you or whoever sent you can EVER alter the truth..

^^^Whoever is talking to you in places like Togo is a lying fool or an ignorant slave minded mor.on. For any Togolese to claim that there were ''more roads'' and ''more schools'' during the colonial rule of Togo is displaying the height of lying and wanton stupidity caused by racial inferiority complex and nothing else.

For your information, life expectancy of Togo at independence was 32 years. Sierra Leone, 35 years, Nigeria, 37 years etc etc. Today those figures are in the 50s and 60s, showing vast improvement of living standards under African rule.

Literacy rate in Togo at independence was UNDER 10% so it is IMPOSSIBLE for there to have been ''more schools'' or whatever fantasy you're here propagating, during colonial rule, in the same Togo where literacy is at 80% today. Infant mortality rate of Togo was something like 300 per 1000 at independence, showing a total neglect of health by the colonialists. That figure is about 80 per 1000 today under African rule, and falling year on year.

Same horrific percentages apply to the other black nations ruled by Europe. SO PLEASE STOP SPREADING LIES HERE. WE KNOW THE WEST RA.PED AFRICA DURING COLONIAL RULE, EXPORTING OUR RESOURCES AND MAKING HUGE PROFITS FOR THEIR ECONOMIES WHILE DOING NEXT TO NOTHING FOR THE PEOPLE OF AFRICA. Which was why despite 80 to 100 years of uninterrupted white rule, all black nations at independence were totally undeveloped and backward with almost non-existent infrastructure.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT AFRICA IS DOING FAR BETTER TODAY THAN IT WAS THEN - in every respect from infrastructure to education and health - and no amount of anti-black propaganda by you or whoever sent you can EVER alter the truth..

Preach brother, preach! Unfortunately many "Africoons" pine for the white man, not realising that they are far better off today than during "colonialism". Most of the fastest growing economies in the world are in Africa. Zimbabwe for all it's sh1t under Mugabe has the highest literacy rate throughout the whole of Africa. Not to mention that Zimbabwe's AIDS rate is dropping at one of the fastest in the world.

PastorAIO:
A Thought:

It is a known fact of economics that when an economy/culture is blossoming it attracts labour (ie human resources) while a shrinking economy exports labour. This is true whether the means is by wilful migration or by Forced migration (slavery). When we consider the fact that Africa has been exporting labour for over 500 years at a rate that I don't think any other continent has experienced historically then I think that would suggest that in Africa we've got nothing going on.

Okay even if we accept the despicable practice of enslaving other humans. imagine an african king that has been approached by european slave traders. They want 10, 000 human slaves for their economy. Which kind of economy is prepared to lose 10, 000 of it's labour force, amongst whom are probably some geniuses of various fields of endeavour. If our Kings and chiefs were correct people with a vision for their nations they would balk. Afterall presumably they would have projects of their own for which they would need all that labour. Perhaps roads need building, or farms need irrigating and crops planted and harvested.

My explanation for the scale of the slave trade is that there was absolutely no vision in Africa. Our leaders had no ambition. Therefore no need for labour to implement the vision. The problem is a cultural one. And a Spiritual one. The dearth of vision ( a situation still prevalent today) suggests that there is something wrong with the African at a cultural and psychological level. As much as we like to give lip service to our culture the fact remains that a lot of african people are terribly uncultured. Without a cultural foundation to give direction and context to our lives we are just blowing in the wind, or as Baba Kuti so aptly put, we just dey roll like one yeye ball wey one yeye wind dey blow from one yeye corner.

In contrast European society has ideals that give their culture impetus (even though these ideals are starting to unravel under the influence of modern capitalism). If we don't have any ideals of our own then maybe we are better off borrowing the ideals of another or even allowing those who have ideals to kuku take over the reins of government.

This is the naked truth. Take a look at what is happening today in Nigeria. Our leaders have been people bereft of leadership qualities with lack of direction. This present administration is no exception.
I have always known that African problems stem from mental slavery and imprisonment from his habits over a prolonged period of time.
In other words, I agree totally that African countries would be better off a zillion times if Europeans or whites are ruling us. Forget about the inhumane treatment given to us. Are we not having inhumane treatment given to us now that we are ruling ourselves

Lalasticlala abeg move this highly educative thread to FP

Africans can rule their countries as they like make mistakes and learn from it... the history of the west is littered with such mistakes, they never cared about Africa, it is not their home, they were only in Africa to create wealth for their country.

manmustwac:
If 100 people were stopped at random throughout Zimbabwe and asked if they would rather see Mugabe as their president or Smith, were he still alive, the majority would say Smith - that is assuming they were able to give their answer without fear of retribution.

Id1ot the Brits are responsible for Zimbabwe's economic problems. They called it economic sanctions but it is economic sabotage

The question is how many African countries are really independent, just one or two Zimbabwe included, what we have now is NEO COLONIALISM, you have all the trappings of a sovereign country like flags and currency and flag etc but in reality they are mere circus monkeys, that is why I can challenge buhari to take any decisions without first going to see David Cameron his master, the Brits never left, they merely put there puppets in charge so there people (Britons) will not demand explanations on how they run the colonies, they. Also did that by putting their favorite tribe on power suppling them with a lot of weapons to subdue the other tribes and get some cash in return, Don't you people know that they looked for something and that thing brought them here, you never one day fought nor protested for independence, they kind if freely gave it to you so that tells you that it is a false independence.