maclatunji:

Not dealing with government will be quite difficult. It is the largest customer in Nigeria.

^Jazkumullah khayran

I believe that this one says that it is Haram....
http://islamqa.info/en/ref/106094/forex

tunde1200:




^Jazkumullah khayran

Wa Iyakum.

maclatunji:

Not dealing with government will be quite difficult. It is the largest customer in Nigeria.

Depends on the scale of your business. A lot of people who are into retailing don't deal with the government
And a lot of professional services provider don't. The problem is that securing a contract (even for professional services) might necessitate paying bribe

sino:

100% halal?! In Nigeria of today? You go waka small o, may Allah assist us all.ameen.
Maybe 85 - 95% halal, and that means you own your business, and you don't deal with government at any level.

Why not? I believe the halal/haram thing can boil down to
sources of finance
nature of core business
Nature of some elements of the business

If you make cement blocks which I believe is 100% halal but finance it with interest bearing fund, your business is haram. Some scholars allow some percentage borrowed fund. But general rule is it hat it is haram

If you don't borrow but supply raw materials to a brewery, your business is haram

Naijababe mentioned airline business. I reckon that since fuel is a major cost component in that industry, the airlines speculate using option contracts to stabilise their fuel cost. We note that the vagaries of the oil market is clearly out of the hands of the airlines.

So what if I am using my own fund to make cement blocks, tomate juice, chips etc. can the business not be 100% halal?

As for investments, anyone who invests his fund in my business on a profit-sharing basis will also be making halal investment

BetaThings:

Depends on the scale of your business. A lot of people who are into retailing don't deal with the government
And a lot of professional services provider don't. The problem is that securing a contract (even for professional services) might necessitate paying bribe

You don't pay tax? The goods you retail, where were they sourced from? And so many other questions.

@ BetaThings, i mentioned the airline business for a reason. The only way to profit is by using a component that may be haram. Remove it and you are most likely to go bankrupt as an airliner. Now, where does that leave passengers?

I am not trying to be funny but I think a of confusion would be at play in an attempt to be a mumeen/a.

maclatunji:

You don't pay tax? The goods you retail, where were they sourced from? And so many other questions.

Paying tax has nothing to do with business. Even if you are an employee in an islamic outfit, under current laws, you will have to pay tax. The only way to avoid it as an adult is to leave the country!

As for where my goods are sourced, it does not have to be haram. It will be halal to be a distributor of products from Nestle, NBC (Coke), Cadbury or I make plantain or potato into chips

Please let us look at the other questions

naijababe: @ BetaThings, i mentioned the airline business for a reason. The only way to profit is by using a component that may be haram. Remove it and you are most likely to go bankrupt as an airliner. Now, where does that leave passengers?

I have no solution to the problem really. And I know that I don't have to be in the airlines business.
Apart from the glamour, I don't really see it as a very attractive industry.
Internationally, there is always nearly a problem of over capacity. In Nigeria, the margins are too thin. How many are left in Nigeria? It is either 1 (Bellview) or 2 strikes (ADC) and you are out!

naijababe:
I am not trying to be funny but I think a of confusion would be at play in an attempt to be a mumeen/a.

There are various sins I commit, but it is easier to repent from occasional sins than to make something that is haram the main source of income. It would be hard to let go

Now as regards confusion. Leave that side, just come back and be a muslimat. We can sort out the one of mumeenat later
I pray that Allah gives you guidance. Then you would "hammer" to your satisfaction very quickly, take the shahada and can even try the niqab!

BetaThings:

I have no solution to the problem really. And I know that I don't have to be in the airlines business.
Apart from the glamour, I don't really see it as a very attractive industry.
Internationally, there is always nearly a problem of over capacity. In Nigeria, the margins are too thin. How many are left in Nigeria? It is either 1 (Bellview) or 2 strikes (ADC) and you are out!



There are various sins I commit, but it is easier to repent from occasional sins than to make something that is haram the main source of income. It would be hard to let go

Now as regards confusion. Leave that side, just come back and be a muslimat. We can sort out the one of mumeenat later
I pray that Allah gives you guidance. Then you would "hammer" to your satisfaction very quickly, take the shahada and can even try the niqab!

Been there, done that

naijababe:

Been there, done that

Always better the second time

BetaThings:

Paying tax has nothing to do with business. Even if you are an employee in an islamic outfit, under current laws, you will have to pay tax. The only way to avoid it as an adult is to leave the country!

As for where my goods are sourced, it does not have to be haram. It will be halal to be a distributor of products from Nestle, NBC (Coke), Cadbury or I make plantain or potato into chips

Please let us look at the other questions

Trust me, you don't pay the exact tax due to you. How are you sure your suppliers are not against Islam? My point is the same dangers that are inherent in doing business with government are in virtually every other sector of the economy.

naijababe:

Been there, done that

What is your understanding of what makes one a Muslim and how/why do you find it not good enough?

^ The answer to that would be a very very long post. Let me not bore you.

BetaThings:

Why not? I believe the halal/haram thing can boil down to
sources of finance
nature of core business
Nature of some elements of the business

If you make cement blocks which I believe is 100% halal but finance it with interest bearing fund, your business is haram. Some scholars allow some percentage borrowed fund. But general rule is it hat it is haram

If you don't borrow but supply raw materials to a brewery, your business is haram

Naijababe mentioned airline business. I reckon that since fuel is a major cost component in that industry, the airlines speculate using option contracts to stabilise their fuel cost. We note that the vagaries of the oil market is clearly out of the hands of the airlines.

So what if I am using my own fund to make cement blocks, tomate juice, chips etc. can the business not be 100% halal?

As for investments, anyone who invests his fund in my business on a profit-sharing basis will also be making halal investment

I understand you, but the problem is the "Nigerian factor" whereby you just don't have a choice.

Take for example the block business, while transporting the sand you'll use, the truck might be held by the NPF, and you know what must happen, you'll have to factore this into the cost price of producing a block abi?

There are other issues too, Mac mentioned the source of the goods, some wholesalesrs are into dubious things(well, we can say since you don't know, no harm), people are just too corrupt in this country, unless you don't want to make huge sales which can guaranty making the big bucks.

I am not in anyway supporting haram income, but sometimes, your hands are tied. The best is just don't go into haram business knowingly.

One other thing that sickens me is when people come to buy things from you, after bargaining and almost denying you of any profit, then they tell you to write a phoney receipt with exorbitant prices. Argh! What do you do? And you need to make the sale o

naijababe: ^ The answer to that would be a very very long post. Let me not bore you.

If you would not mind, I would love to read it. I don't mind instalments via mail or on another thread if you like. If you choose mail, I will send you a PM. In any case, if you are short of time, a summary would be alright by me.

Thank you.

maclatunji:

Trust me, you don't pay the exact tax due to you. How are you sure your suppliers are not against Islam? My point is the same dangers that are inherent in doing business with government are in virtually every other sector of the economy.

I trust your sincerity. Tax laws are clear and there are enough experts to determine whether adequate tax is paid or not. We can leave that to them. We even pay some illegal taxes (multiple tax rules) BTW.

Sincerely, I am not allowed to inquire as to the attitude of my suppliers towards Islam. We can extend this further. Is that person selling chin chin, meat pie etc hostile towards Islam. Can I sell to non-muslims? Those matters are clear, we can buy and sell to non-muslims

I don't agree with your submission. But I still trust and respect your sincerity

naijababe: ^ The answer to that would be a very very long post. Let me not bore you.

maclatunji:

If you would not mind, I would love to read it. I don't mind instalments via mail or on another thread if you like. If you choose mail, I will send you a PM. In any case, if you are short of time, a summary would be alright by me.

Thank you.

Seconded. Please indulge us. We promise not to be bored. Infact, it will be full of insight

^Insight is the keyword here.

^^^
Salaam

May Allah increase you in wisdom

Ok boys. You got yourselves a deal. A word of warning though, i hate typing so will do this slowly.

sino:

I understand you, but the problem is the "Nigerian factor" whereby you just don't have a choice.

Take for example the block business, while transporting the sand you'll use, the truck might be held by the NPF, and you know what must happen, you'll have to factore this into the cost price of producing a block abi?

There are other issues too, Mac mentioned the source of the goods, some wholesalesrs are into dubious things(well, we can say since you don't know, no harm), people are just too corrupt in this country, unless you don't want to make huge sales which can guaranty making the big bucks.

I am not in anyway supporting haram income, but sometimes, your hands are tied. The best is just don't go into haram business knowingly.

my brother Sino,

We are Muslims. The true Islam takes a middle position. That is why we allow room for everything that is normal. You can be FORCED to pay a bribe even when you are not doing any business. There is no sin on us for what we are forced to do

We know that a woman whose husband is doing haram business can still take lawfully from the husband's income for her upkeep. The haram is on the man, but not on the woman. So the supplier's problem is not your business

sino:
One other thing that sickens me is when people come to buy things from you, after bargaining and almost denying you of any profit, then they tell you to write a phoney receipt with exorbitant prices. Argh! What do you do? And you need to make the sale o

people are just too corrupt in this country

That issue of the receipt is a problem, I admit. What we do depends on the level of our eeman. I am not a scholar, not even a student of knowledge, so I don't have to give an opinion

People are really VERY corrupt. Both Muslims and Christians are guilty. Don't mind our "show" of piety!

naijababe: Ok boys. You got yourselves a deal. A word of warning though, i hate typing so will do this slowly.

Thanks. Take as much time you need. The lengthier, the greater the benefits from the insight

BetaThings: ^^^
Salaam

May Allah increase you in wisdom

Ameen.

naijababe: Ok boys. You got yourselves a deal. A word of warning though, i hate typing so will do this slowly.

See my teeth.

Thank you for sharing.

Naijababe is born and raised Muslim o. Maclatunji, try and get her back in the fold. Her beloved and long-suffering daddy will thank you. And I will buy a big house little cottage from you when I land in Lagos, OK?

Salaam, bros.

isale_gan2: Naijababe is born and raised Muslim o. Maclatunji, try and get her back in the fold. Her beloved and long-suffering daddy will thank you. And I will buy a big house little cottage from you when I land in Lagos, OK?

Salaam, bros.

It is not really my job na. Don't make it look as if it is. You don't really post in this section anymore madam- what happened?

isale_gan2: Naijababe is born and raised Muslim o. Maclatunji, try and get her back in the fold. Her beloved and long-suffering daddy will thank you. And I will buy a big house little cottage from you when I land in Lagos, OK?

Salaam, bros.

Wa Alaykum Salam- Sis.

maclatunji:

It is not really my job na. Don't make it look as if it is. You don't really post in this section anymore madam- what happened?

Whose fault? Naijababe's, of course.

That reminds me! I was looking at some old threads and realised that SWEETNECTA (and many others whose names I can't recall) is no longer posting. Very disappointing. It seems Religion section mods may have driven him away. Honestly, Seun needs to get his act together. In Politics and other sections, quality posters are few and far between. I probably stepped away from Islam section once the Muslim-haters appeared to be firmly in control - most threads were started by them and they took on the prominent role in the section, while our own Jarus took naps. I trust you and your co-mod are gradually rebuilding. . .

isale_gan2:

Whose fault? Naijababe's, of course.

That reminds me! I was looking at some old threads and realised that SWEETNECTA (and many others whose names I can't recall) is no longer posting. Very disappointing. It seems Religion section mods may have driven him away. Honestly, Seun needs to get his act together. In Politics and other sections, quality posters are few and far between. I probably stepped away from Islam section once the Muslim-haters appeared to be firmly in control - most threads were started by them and they took on the prominent role in the section, while our own Jarus took naps. I trust you and your co-mod are gradually rebuilding. . .

Ok, I would like to believe Sweetnecta still posts at least until very recently. I think what happened the other time was a collective failure. Hopefully, things are getting better now. This platform is about so much more than our personal tastes though. Left to my personal taste, I would be a quiet observer but there are times we have to get out of our comfort zone and engage an ailing system to make a positive impact. I know you know all of this but I still feel that it is important I say it.

Engage more.

isale_gan2:

Whose fault? Naijababe's, of course.

That reminds me! I was looking at some old threads and realised that SWEETNECTA (and many others whose names I can't recall) is no longer posting. Very disappointing. It seems Religion section mods may have driven him away. Honestly, Seun needs to get his act together. In Politics and other sections, quality posters are few and far between. I probably stepped away from Islam section once the Muslim-haters appeared to be firmly in control - most threads were started by them and they took on the prominent role in the section, while our own Jarus took naps. I trust you and your co-mod are gradually rebuilding. . .

This section was a disaster, it is no surprise many people left. I used to avoid this section. Mac has done a good job in restoring some sanity. Hopefully we get some returnees.

As for naijababe, only Allah guides.

****