deSika:

do you what. you are actually confirming wat i said. we are not saying difernt things at all

i say there were idols in kabba before Muhammed
and you say
Muhamed destroyed the idols.

so both of us agree that there were idols.. it does not help you. because as it is if idols were worshipped in your Kabba. one of them is the stone that you kiss. one of them is the Allah that you worship. truth. this is truth. there were idols. there were idols. there were idols in kabba.. i feel like shouting it to you from here.. Muhamed destroyed some but not all.. he retained Allah. he retained black stone. he retained kabba. he retained circumbulation. he retained pilgrimage yes the pagans used to come for pilgrimage. the truth i feel like shouting it out to you. think about it wat does kissing a stone got to do with God. you kiss what you cherish. its idolatry bro. its idolatry. you stone Shaitan year in year out. ask yourself. why am i stoning this shaitan everytime. is it not supposed to have died as a result of a million stones. if its stil living then your stoning is ineffective. why should you continue doing an inneffective thing. the truth. my brother you need to accept it.. your religion is idolatry.

do you know that Muhamed ate food presented to idols..
Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration. Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat (that had been offered to him by the pagans) to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (to the pagans), "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stone altars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering." (Sahih al- Bukhari 7:407 )

this is bukhari hadith saying Muhammed presented an idolatrous food to Zaid. it seems Zaid is more pious than Muhammed

read this

"And when the apostle of God had finished his period of seclusion and returned (to Mecca), in the first place he performed the circumambulation of the Ka'ba, AS WAS HIS WONT. While he was doing it , Waraqa met him and said, ‘O son of my brother, tell me what thou hast seen and heard.'" (Sirat Rasulullah, trans. Alfred Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad [Oxford University Press, Karachi], p. 107;

AS WAS HIS WONT means that before his revelations he used to perform circumbulation as a pagan.

i write this with so much passionn in my heart for you..

deSika: do you know that budhas and hindus. the religion you accuse of idolatory also engages in circumbulation.

do you know that Zoroastrians an idolatrous group also recite prayers five times after ablutions.

if you have read all i have written and still continue in your idolatory. then am afraid for you.

ayenny02:

the problem u have is that u dont understand arabic and also you copied from anti-islam website, dont worry this is arabic and english translate below:

حَدَّثَنِي مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ أَبِي بَكْرٍ، حَدَّثَنَا فُضَيْلُ بْنُ سُلَيْمَانَ، حَدَّثَنَا مُوسَى، حَدَّثَنَا سَالِمُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ، عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ، رضى الله عنهما أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم لَقِيَ زَيْدَ بْنَ عَمْرِو بْنِ نُفَيْلٍ بِأَسْفَلِ بَلْدَحَ، قَبْلَ أَنْ يَنْزِلَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم الْوَحْىُ فَقُدِّمَتْ إِلَى النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم سُفْرَةٌ، فَأَبَى أَنْ يَأْكُلَ مِنْهَا ثُمَّ قَالَ زَيْدٌ إِنِّي لَسْتُ آكُلُ مِمَّا تَذْبَحُونَ عَلَى أَنْصَابِكُمْ، وَلاَ آكُلُ إِلاَّ مَا ذُكِرَ اسْمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ‏.‏ وَأَنَّ زَيْدَ بْنَ عَمْرٍو كَانَ يَعِيبُ عَلَى قُرَيْشٍ ذَبَائِحَهُمْ، وَيَقُولُ الشَّاةُ خَلَقَهَا اللَّهُ، وَأَنْزَلَ لَهَا مِنَ السَّمَاءِ الْمَاءَ، وَأَنْبَتَ لَهَا مِنَ الأَرْضِ، ثُمَّ تَذْبَحُونَهَا عَلَى غَيْرِ اسْمِ اللَّهِ إِنْكَارًا لِذَلِكَ وَإِعْظَامًا لَهُ‏.‏ .

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: The Prophet met Zaid bin \'Amr bin Nufail in the bottom of (the valley of) Baldah before any Divine Inspiration came to the Prophet. A meal was presented to the Prophet but he refused to eat from it. (Then it was presented to Zaid) who said, "I do not eat anything which you slaughter in the name of your stone idols. I eat none but those things on which Allah's Name has been mentioned at the time of slaughtering.

deSika: whu is Abraham?
what a question
Abraham is a man. father of isaac and ishmael. married to sarai
i am answering your questions pls return the favour and answer mine

deSika:

ok. wronngly translated. i take that one back. i will check further. but thats just one of all i have said

ayenny02:
the problem u have is that u dont understand arabic and also you copied from anti-islam website, dont worry this is arabic and english translate below:
.

deSika:
you may have to give me the source of your translation.


this is from an islamic site www.gowister.com/sahihbukhari-7-407.html

Book 67: Hunting, Slaughtering
Hadith 407 (Volume 7)

Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration. Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat (that had been offered to him by the pagans) to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (to the pagans), "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stonealtars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."

Copyright © 2013 Wister All rights reserved

this is from an islamic site
www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=67&translator=1&start=19&number=402

407 Narrated 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said that he met Zaid bin 'Amr Nufail at a place near Baldah and this had happened before Allah's Apostle received the Divine Inspiration. Allah's Apostle presented a dish of meat (that had been offered to him by the pagans) to Zaid bin 'Amr, but Zaid refused to eat of it and then said (to the pagans), "I do not eat of what you slaughter on your stonealtars (Ansabs) nor do I eat except that on which Allah's Name has been mentioned on slaughtering."

so what are you saying. bro

ayenny02:

thank God that you accepted that you lied

ayenny02:
There are so many sects, cults, religions, philosophies, and movements in the world, all of which claim to be the right way or the only true path to God. How can one determine which one is correct or if, in fact, all are correct?

The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word "Islam" itself means. The religion of Islam is not named after a person as in the case of Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ, Buddhism after Gotama Buddha, Confucianism after Confucius, and Marxism after Karl Marx. Nor was it named after a tribe like Judaism after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the Hindus. Islam is the true religion of "Allah" and as such, its name represents the central principle of Allah's "God's" religion; the total submission to the will of Allah "God". The Arabic word "Islam" means the submission or surrender of one's will to the only true god worthy of worship "Allah" and anyone who does so is termed a "Muslim", The word also implies "peace" which is the natural consequence of total submission to the will of Allah.

lanrexlan: @Desika,I can see the level of your reasoning is not that high,you are just an anti islamic guy,no problem.

lanrexlan:
To your question,firstly what's the meaning of an idol? An idol as defined by the collins oxford dictionary said 'a material or an object,especially carved image that is worshipped as god'.You said prophet muhammed(pbuh) destroyed all the idols at kabba(agreed),but left the kabba,the black stone,ALLAH,the circumambulation. Firstly,is ALLAH an object? The answer is capital NO,ALLAH is a living being the absolute,the eternal,secondly circumambulation is an act of moving round a thing,how can that be an idol? Think before you talk.Thirdly the kabba is a house of worship built by abraham(pbuh) not an idol of worship.Lastly,the black stone is the place when abraham(pbuh) stood on when he first made the call of worship to the whole of mankind.One of the companion of the prophet reported that 'I saw MUHAMMAD(pbuh)kissing the black stone,that's why I also kissed it can never benefit me nor harm me.During the early years of islam,people do stand on the black stone and make the call for prayer(adhan),now tell who amongst the idol worshippers will ever stands on its idol and make the call? The answer is none.No muslim ever worship the kabba nor black stone.The kabba is the qiblah(prayer's direction) and the act of circumambulating around the kabba signifies that we muslims worship only one ALLAH.

ayenny02:
Later generations lost track of the reasons why stones were originally venerated and the Quraysh were happy to worship stone idols just like the people were doing in surrounding countries.

read this One day when the Quraysh had assembled on a feast day to venerate and circumambulate the idol to which they offered sacrifices, this being a feast which they held annually, four men drew apart secretly and agreed to keep their counsel in the bonds of friendship. They were Waraqa b.Naufal, Ubaydullah b.Jahsh, whose mother was Umayma d.'Abdu'l Muttalib, Uthman b.al- Huwayrith and Zayd b.'Amr. They were of the opinion that their people had corrupted the religion of their father Abraham, and that the STONE they went round was of no account, it could neither hear nor see, nor hurt nor help. ``Find yourselves a religion,'' they said, ``for by God you have none.'' So they went their ways seeking the ``Hanaffiya'' -- the religion of Abraham." (Ibn Ishaq, Life of Muhammad, tr. Guillaume, p. 99)

the kabba is the qiblah(prayer's direction) and the act of circumambulating around the kabba signifies that we muslims worship only one ALLAH.

deSika: finally, another muslim. u are welcome bro

no. am onnly here to show the truth. you guys have to come out from all this ur anti islam accusations and discuss



if you notice i use the word idol, idolatrous, gods, pagan interchangeably. truth is that when pagans were worshipping other idols/gods Allah was one of them. that is a fact. what Mohammed did was to eliminate the other gods. leaving Allah.

i didnt say Kabba is idol. the Kabba was the exact building used for worshipping idols/gods.. if you destroy the idols you should also destroy the building were they were worshipped..

the blackstone is an idol.. read ayennyo2's post here
the blackstone is one of them.
and read this one


This people were talking to pagans. guess wat moslems are still doing this very pagan act. yes circumbulation is a pagan act




fact Kabbah was a place of idol worship. questionnn for you is God not everywhere why face only one direction. it seems to me that your Allah is only in Kabba.

the act of circumambulating was used by pagans my dear around the Kabba. so wats the difference between you annd the pagans. you are still doing what the pagans did. and as such i can say you are a pagan..

deSika: i answered you boy.

the religion of Abraham was not christianity. the jews worships the El that Abraham worship. as Abraham named his son IshmaEL. so Moses religion is derived from Abrahams relationship with God.

so my answer is this.
As Abraham was not a idol worshipper and also as at the time of Abraham there was no institionalised organised religion. its safe to say That Abraham had no religion with set down doctrines. ABRAHAM HAD A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD. same with Adam.


#Abraham and Adam canot be said to be muslims why.
they didnt have mosques or temples. they didnt go to mecca. yes Adam didnt go to Mecca. they didnt fast in ramadan. they didnt pay zakat.. they didnt say "there is only one God and Muhammed is a prophet" are these not symbols of islam how could they have been muslim when they did not do this. if you say they can be muslims without doing this. then again all the people that do dont do these are muslims.

SUMMARY
Abrahams religion: Relationship with God
why
you must undertstand that man has become more developed over the years better than he was when he first started as Adam. Now people fly to distant countries in just days this was not the case with Adam, Abraham etc. this development includes Religion. as at when Adam started there was no religion. he had a Relationship with God. as time went on men began to seek ways of worshipping other spiritual entities. this now resulted in religions.. atleast you must agree that Adam didnt have any relationship with Mecca your most holy site as Kabba was built by Abraham. this means that atleast Adam didnt pray to or on any Kabba. so i can say your religion started with Abraham but not Adam so stop roping Adam into it..so you see from your records that religion evolved from Adam with no kabba to Abraham with Kabba.. this is not to say that i agree with such baseless assumptions. but just to let you know that the supposed religion of Adam was less developed than that of Abraham.. this explains why i say Adam,. Abraham didnt have a relgion. organised Religion started with Moses. but if you think otherwise show me where these guys upheld the five pillar of islam.

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF ELOHIM
Elohim means God

<< 429 430. elohim 431 >>

elohim: God, god
Original Word: םיִהֹלֱא
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: elohim
Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem')
Short Definition: God
Word Origin pl. of eloah
Definition God, god

NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation All rights reserved Lockman.org

#take note that i answered you. pls return the favour and answer me. can you show me where Adam and Abraham
1.. recited "there is no God but Allah, and Muhammed is his last prophet"
2.. where they went to mecca on pilgrimage. especially Adam as Abraham is reputed to have built kabba
3. where they fasted this one is important IN RAMADAN
4.. Where they payed zakat and to who
5. where they prayed five times

ayenny02: .

deSika: yes non muslims have [blots[/b] of questions. one of the ways you could teach them about islam is by responding to their questions.by so doing u dispel wrong notions and replace with the right knowledge.

questions like the following
how can muslims show a non muslim how islam was practised before Mohamed. how did the early muslims worship their God.pls show with proofs
1.. did thay recite the shadadah
2. did they believe in one God (Allah).
3. did they believe that Mohammed is his prophet. (seal of the prophets)
4. did they pray five times a day
5. did they pay zakat
6. did they fast during the ramadan
7. did they go to Mecca for pilgrimage and what did they do when they went there

this is islam as practised by today'[/b]s muslims. was it this same islam that the muslims practised before Muhammed. did the early muslims worship their God as highlighted in the above points.

i ask this question because i believe that when u make a statement one should be able to provide proofs.
Muslims have always said that Islam had existed before Muhammed came [b]into the scene.

now in answering these questions u must show proofs from Allah's word the quran. u are free to run to the "corrupted book" for help as long as u can prove that Allah was what they were worshipping and not Yahweh. (Nb Allah is not same with Elohim/Yahweh because it has not be proven yet. see this thread for reason why
www.nairaland.com/1256820/prove-me-allah-yahweh-same#15276612)

if u can answer the questions with proofs then u have bin able to educate a non muslim. IF U CANNOT then the statement that islam existed before the prophet is an assumption and a false one at that.
#[b]remember [/b]u r educating non muslims.

lanrexlan: Thanks for your comment,

lanrexlan:
to your first one you said we muslims do face the kabba when and that signifies that ALLAH is not everywhere and ALLAH is in the kabba,Let me correct that error of yours brother,we face the kabba in prayer because ALLAH instructed us to do so,if there is a group of muslims and they are about to pray,some will say let's face the east,some may say south,some may say west and some may even say north.So because of there's unity in islam and our lord(ALLAH) is one,so we all face the same direction.

lanrexlan:
To the 2nd point you raised,the kabba was the place all the 300 idols were kept,i agreed with you when prophet muhammed(pbuh) came and became a prophet he destroyed all leaving none behind,

lanrexlan:
how can ALLAH be an idol when my lord(ALLAH) is not an inanimate object? Subhanallah.Before islam conquered the city of makkah,the pagans of makkah used to go round the kabba in a naked state but islam conquered makkah,islam demolished it if we are practising a paganistic act,why are we not circumambulating the kabba in a naked state

lanrexlan:
And even the kabba was built by abraham(pbuh) a prophet,a muslim he prayed in the kabba as a muslim,

lanrexlan:
but due to change in time disbelief set in into makkah,but when prophet muhammed(pbuh) came,the house of ALLAH became a place of worship for ALLAH alone,and disbelief was eradicated.

lanrexlan:
That's why non muslims are not allowed to go near the kabba.Kabba is a the first place of worship on earth,not an object of worship.

lanrexlan:
Lastly,the black can neither harm the muslims nor benefit us,muslims just kissed because prophet muhammed(pbuh) kissed it,

lanrexlan:
the call for prayer(adhan) was made on it,no idol worshipper will never stand on its idol,not possible.If the black stone is an idol then we muslims should be bowing to it(nauosubillah)but we never bow,bow only to ALLAH....Salam

salt 1:

These are not the questions that non Moslems ask. You can see from your response that only another Moslem is replying you. I am a non-Moslem and my questions are
1. why does Islam allow girls as young as nine to be married? Is it religion or is it culture? I heard of a Yemeni proverb that says that if you want a peaceful marriage, you should marry a 9year old girl. Is it truly cultural or religious?
2. How come the more fundamentalist/pious a Moslem is, the more he is prone to violence?
3. What is the reward for being a good Moslem woman? We agree that all that 72 virgin stuff is hype but what is the real reward?
4. Is it true, really true, that Islam allows wives to be beaten joyfully by

These are the ways you can teach me about your religion, not whether Abraham and Jesus were also Moslems.
I hope you're not angry that I did a little spelling correction on your post

ayenny02:
ISLAM is arabic word which means surrender to d will of God, Those who practice religion of islam are called Muslim. Muslim is an arabic word and which means worshiper of none except Allah alone.

Also Allah is an Arabic word which means God, Supreme Being. In Hebrew language God means ELOHA but jews use plural form ELOHIM. It is not subject to plurality or gender. It is confusing to use the word God as many English-speaking Christian still consider Jesus as God, even the word creator is also confusing, as many christians still maintain that jesus had created the world.

If u can access to Arabic Bible that those christian arabs are using, you will see that God in that bible translate to Allah

Not only the name of Allah is strange, but also the way muslims worship Allah with ablution, bowing, kneeling, prostration and fasting is strange to non-muslim, but not strange to all prophets.

While ablution (washing of face, arms, feet and moistening of d hair) prior to worship is abandoned by modern christian, it is still required by muslim and previous prophets, as seen in the following passages of the Bible: Exodus 40:31-32
31 And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat:
32 When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the Lord commanded Moses.

John 13:12-15
12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.


Although Paul made many changes in jesus teaching, he was still faithful in respect to ablution(purification) as seen in Act 21:26;
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.


Muslim Women perform their prayer with their head covered as 1 cor 11:5, 6 and 13;
5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?


Muslims worship with bowing, kneeling, prostration and without shoes as done by previous Prophet;
Psalm 95:6
6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the Lord our maker.

Joshua 5:14
14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my Lord unto his servant?

Nehemiah 8:4-6
4 And Ezra the scribe stood upon a pulpit of wood, which they had made for the purpose; and beside him stood Mattithiah, and Shema, and Anaiah, and Urijah, and Hilkiah, and Maaseiah, on his right hand; and on his left hand, Pedaiah, and Mishael, and Malchiah, and Hashum, and Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.

5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people; (for he was above all the people and when he opened it, all the people stood up:

6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God. And all the people answered, Amen, Amen, with lifting up their hands: and they bowed their heads, and worshipped the Lord with their faces to the ground.

Matthew 4:10
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

And if all these be true!
Why has the so claimed Religion of PEACE failed to AFFIRM the LORDSHIP of PRINCE OF PEACE?

nagoma:

You certainly need a lot of education as you are full of misinformation. Talking about spellings- The correct spelling is MUSLIM and not Moslem. Thanks.

nagoma:

Thank you for you patience brother Ayenny02. But this fellow deSlika is not worth your time. He is not out to learn but to ridicule and enhance hatred. His religion of 3 gods cannot answer even one of similar questions. You are too good for him.

blink182: Now that it is a Muslim thread, Seun has permanently fixed a warning to dissuade people from mocking allah and Muhammed but it is completely cool for people to ridicule and mock God the mighty Father and Jesus.

Like this comment if you agree with me that there should be a warning like this with Christian threads.