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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings (27737 Views)
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Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 6:18pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
MostHigh: Lol! you missed the point. if Christ did not passed judgement on Apostle Paul for teaching that Christians are free from the mosaic law, i don't see Christ passing judgement on me for repeating Paul's statement? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by brilapluz(m): 6:22pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
Zikkyy:hahahahahahahaha..*obadiah777 voice:GUY U GAT JOKES BRUV*...nl 2 much! 2 Likes |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 6:33pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
MostHigh: Where? How? When what truth? MostHigh: okay MostHigh: Correction; it's the mosaic law i don't need. MostHigh: More reason why they should do away with mosaic law, it is not for those with a weak heart. The law was never successful as an enabler. They need to move on to the next level; allow the spirit to lead them. if they find that difficult to achieve, let them think/breathe/eat love. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Nobody: 6:35pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
Zikkyy: What spirit should lead them if i may ask? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 6:39pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
ifeness: even when you know i cannot be referring to sango or orunmila spirit okay na holy spirit. are you happy now? 1 Like |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 10:40pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
Zikkyy: na wa for your reasoning o please can you clearly tell us the difference between the law you speak about and the mosaic law? what are the ordinances of this new law/order |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 10:44pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
Zikkyy: I WAs referring to the sermon on the mount and yes its real heavy stuff try read it again. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 10:47pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
brilapluz: try lawless on the flip side |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by brilapluz(m): 11:01pm On Apr 29, 2013 |
MostHigh:U r one funny fella...tot U liked dat 'reprobate..record'...now its 'lawless'...hahahahahahahaha...hope it doesnt turn out 2 b a 'crackd cd' soon...gues U hv exhausted ur vocabs bruv..lol |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 9:36am On Apr 30, 2013 |
MostHigh: so this is the reason you've been calling me reprobate you are thinking new set of law MostHigh: I will try 1. Christ law is perfect (complete) -- Mosaic law incomplete 2. Christ law applies to everybody -- Mosaic law was given to the Jews 3. Motives for practicing differs Christ law - motive for adhering/obedience to Christ's law is love. Mosaic law - Fear being the motive for compliance (ask the regular tithers ), 3b. Christ law - Being based on love, it is no longer a burden and much easier to obey Mosaic law - Because it is by force, it became a burden for the those subjected to the law. 4. Mosaic law focused on external acts. (the reason one can say he has satisfied the command not to kill even when there is hate in his heart) Christ law - obedience comes from the mind/heart. actions are based on the state of the heart. My brother check yourself o! if your response to the law is based on fear, then you are old school (the mosaic school ), For Christians that respond to Christ law (the law based on love), the mosaic law is irrelevant 1 Like |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Nobody: 10:43am On Apr 30, 2013 |
Zikkyy: True, but then if anyone has Christ, his life will not contradict the law of Moses, will it? 2 Likes |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by brilapluz(m): 11:02am On Apr 30, 2013 |
Ihedinobi:surely and dat is y followin d christ-like way is d best 4 us as christians(christian-christ-like)..all U need is LOVE,dis is wat made d law complete..so u dont need mosaic law,all U need is LOVE-romans 13:8-10 |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 11:18am On Apr 30, 2013 |
brilapluz: You are right being Christ like is living in love Yashua ibn joseph quoted from the book of Deuteronomy more than any other book in the torah And Deuteronomy as we all know is a reminder of the LAW. It is also very clear for any pure hearted to see that the Sermon on the Mount is PURE LAW. But also remember that Yashua ibn joseph lived a life full of examples of how we should live Remember also that this way of life was emulated by all the apostles including Paul This love you speak about is a way of life, as it is written I am the way and the life When you read the Sermon on the Mount Christ is speaking to peoples both back then and now Where do you stand? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 11:19am On Apr 30, 2013 |
brilapluz: copycat. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 11:21am On Apr 30, 2013 |
Zikkyy: My response to the law is based on obedience obedience to the end Just like yashua ibn joseph he too was obedient to the end as scripture confirms which one come b your own? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by brilapluz(m): 12:32pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
MostHigh:hahahahaha...really..i wil take dat as a compliment..1-1*wink*. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 12:35pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
brilapluz: Try to be yaself all the time dont try being someone else you go miss road |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 12:40pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Ihedinobi: True, his life will not contradict the law of Moses (i believe we are talking about the 10 commandments). because elements of the mosaic law is found in Christ's law. But what the law of Moses failed to achieve |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by brilapluz(m): 12:42pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
MostHigh:atleast tank God u agree dat livin christ-like is livin in an atmosphere of LOVE! And dats wat U need nothin MORE..no stories,or permutations..LIVE A LIFE FILLED WITH LOVE..where i stand?..i stand in d law of christ which is LOVE..hope dats not 2 hard 2 grasp?..lol |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 12:56pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
brilapluz: So there is no need to do exactly as yashua did? Or more pointedly live exactly as yashua lived his life |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 1:42pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
MostHigh: Response to both laws (Christ & Mosaic) is based on obedience. The difference? Obedience to Christ law is driven by love while obedience to mosaic law is by force True Christians don't obey mosaic law, they obey Christ law. So where do you stand. what laws are you keeping? Christ or Moses? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 1:46pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Zikkyy: Wrong Christ obeyed the mosaic law willingly and not through any coercion Which one come be your own? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 2:58pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
MostHigh: Are you Jesus? |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 3:01pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Zikkyy: He is my close friend and brother And from the statements you are making it is clear you know him not But paul you have proven to be your master you are ever willing to quote his words. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Nobody: 3:26pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi, Goshen, I would have quoted all the Scriptures that you referenced here, but it's too tasking for me to do so, so I won't. But we both know what they said. Now when we say that something represents something else, we mean that the latter can be replaced by the former. Can Christ's body replace sin or the law or any of the other things you mentioned in any context? I don't think that we can reasonably say that it can. That He bore our sins in His body is that His body served as a vessel or container or transport for our sins not that His body is our sin. I hope you understand. That by His death, He cancelled the law's enmity against us is not that His body is the law that we died to but that the death of His body is the means by which we were set free from the law. And so on and so forth. There is only one thing which the Scriptures consider the same as the body of Christ and it is the Church. Whenever Christ's body is mentioned in the Scriptures, what is said of it is applicable to believers of every era and place. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Goshen360(m): 3:53pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Ihedinobi: Hmmmm, ^ well, I can't laugh that much. You know as much as I do that "simile" is different from "metaphor" right? You're still looking at the 'body' of Christ as mere flesh like we do have as human. Yes, it is but it represent many things, just that one 'flesh' or 'body'. Look at it here, New Living Translation (©2007) That is why, when Christ came into the world, he said to God, "You did not want animal sacrifices or sin offerings. But you have given me a body to offer. Hebrews 10:5 Here, that body is SACRIFICE AND\OR SIN. Hence, he who knew no sin BECAME sin. Ihedinobi: Oh, so now you agree that His body is the means by which we are set free from the law? Why then do you still teach adherence to the law to Christians if you believe they are set free from it by the body of Christ? Again, Romans 7:4 says, "...that you might belong to another..." which is not the same as the one that died to the law in order to fulfill the law. You need to digest that verse very well. That's like the analogy of baptism by immersion. The old man is buried and another man rises up when we are raised with Christ. Ihedinobi: NO! You're wrong. The communion is also the 'body' of Christ represented in spiritual things, Luke 22:19. New International Version (©2011) And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Just like the church is not the physical body of Christ but typified spiritually and Him, Christ being the Head. So, just like the church is represent in the body of Christ, the same is the communion, also sin which we also die to, same is sacrifices offered by his body and same is the law, we can't keep it, the whole so he did on our behalf. What is left for us is to lean on that His finished works and be righteous by that, not by trying to do what he had already done. 1 Like |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Nobody: 3:54pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Zikkyy: The point is that if a life modelled after Christ does not contradict Moses, then when one finds himself going contrary to Moses, he must realize that he is also going contrary to Christ. This is not necessarily the same as putting oneself back under the Law. Under the Law, we are obligated to obey God, under Grace we're not. But in both cases, the things that please God are made known to us and those things are spiritually the same under both conditions. Therefore, when I find myself in contravention of Moses' law, I shall also find that I am in contravention of Christ for God does not change in what He wants, there is no shadow of turning with Him. The Law is useful to us Christians to understand what God, by His Grace, has made us for the Law describes the man who pleases God. Its enmity against us was in demanding that we become that man which we could not by any means. This enmity is what Christ removed by being that man and offering His perfected Life to us to replace the one that the Law had irrevocably condemned. In accepting His Life, we accept that the Law was right and that we deserved to die. And we do submit to Death everyday that we may live in newness of life everyday. Thus you see that the Law is a type of the Cross saying an invariable NO to all that is not exclusively Christ in us and bringing all the curse of the law to bear upon such things in order that only that which is Christ and thus fulfills the Law of the Spirit of Life may thrive. You see, this is what Galatians 2:20 and 5:24 as well as Paul's "I die daily" mean. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Nobody: 4:24pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Goshen360: First of all, a sacrifice or offering for sin is not the same as sin itself. Second, yes, the Scriptures say that He who knew no sin was made sin. However, I do not need to interpret it myself since the Scriptures themselves have interpreted it in saying that He bore our sins in His body. Oh, so now you agree that His body is the means by which we are set free from the law? Why then do you still teach adherence to the law to Christians if you believe they are set free from it by the body of Christ? For me, it is a matter of course to tell the uncircumcised to pay attention to what I'm saying and what they are saying when we argue, but it is a disappointment to have to do so to another of the House of God. Edit: Where have I disagreed that the body of Christ is the means by which we are set free from the law, my brother? Do you really consider it teaching adherence to the Law to tell the man who claims that he has been born anew and has Love within him that the proof of the truth of this claim lies in how he treats himself, his neighbor and the world around him? Again, Romans 7:4 says, "...that you might belong to another..." which is not the same as the one that died to the law in order to fulfill the law. You need to digest that verse very well. That's like the analogy of baptism by immersion. The old man is buried and another man rises up when we are raised with Christ. Who was said to have died to the law? Us. By what means? The death of our Lord Jesus Whom the Scriptures declare is our Substitute. I was not there, not even born two thousand years ago when Jesus died. And even those who were alive then did not get on the Cross with Him. So, why would the Scriptures say that I died when I was not even born? It's God's Own Principle of Substitution that treats one thing or person exactly as though it were the thing that it represents. Thus Jesus was substituted for me in death to the law that condemned me as unfit for relationship with God. In God's eyes, it was I who died not the Lord Jesus. It was I who died to the Law that I may be joined to the Lord Jesus. So the thing that changed by death was me, not the Lord Jesus Who only served as a means to kill me and create another me that the Law could not condemn. Therefore, how is the text in red not your addition to the Scriptures? NO! You're wrong. The communion is also the 'body' of Christ represented in spiritual things, just like the church is not the physical body of Christ but typified spiritually and Him, Christ being the Head. So, just like the church is represent in the body of Christ, the same is the communion, also sin which we also die to, same is sacrifices offered by his body and same is the law, we can't keep it, the whole so he did on our behalf. What is left for us is to lean on that His finished works and be righteous by that, not by trying to do what he had already done. The only thing I picked out here is that the communion is the body of Christ and you think that that proves me wrong. Well, the believers are the communion of saints, do you remember? About leaning on His works and being righteous by that, you have only agreed with me. We are not now under the Law which tells us that we must do this and that if we want to have God, we are now willing, eager and desirous to do this and that because we have God. If really we have accepted Christ's righteousness as ours and His works as ours, then we will be producing that righteousness and those works in our daily living. In those parts of our lives where we are failing to produce them, the Spirit is witnessing to us that we are rejecting His righteousnesz and His works. And in those places, we place ourselves under the Law for nothing which is contrary to Christ is anything but beneath, under and condemned by the Law. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Nobody: 4:58pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Zikkyy: This is a very lovely way of saying it, Zikkyy. This is what the Gospel is: that the law is no longer above us demanding and threatening, rather it is within us as righteous desires. It is now our nature, no longer obligation, to do the things that are right and please God. The right use of the Law for the Christian is to ensure that he is not breaking with his true character. For instance, however prodigal the son of the rich man was, he was not a pig. And when he started eating swine's leftovers, there was that (edit: within him) which said, 'NO, something's not right'. That thing was the reason he lifted up his head and returned to his father's house and is analogous to the Law which is now within us. It is not the right use of the law to tell a Christian that this or that is required of him for him to have anything of God. It is the right use to tell him that seeing that he has God, it is expected that he should naturally do such-and-such. As I said, the Law only described what the Christian naturally is, it does not demand that a Christian be or do this or that. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by MostHigh: 5:07pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Ihedinobi: On point. |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 7:21pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
Ihedinobi: You should understand that when you make the transition from the text in red to the text (blue), the text in red is no longer relevant to you. If you continue to hold on to it, then you can never fully transit to that state where doing things you find in the law becomes a nature. If you are successful in making that transition (doing away with text in red), you are no longer living by the mosaic law. You should understand that it is no longer the Mosaic law that is within us as righteous desires that we now obey. The mosaic law is (using your words) 'demanding and threatening' and you cannot change it. Ihedinobi: This amounts to going back to your vomit. Using the Lagos traffic law example, this will be me using the requirements of the Lagos traffic laws to ensure i am not compromising on the my principle of ensuring the safety of other road users. The day the Lagos traffic law begins to shape/influence my behavior on the road is the day i decide to do away with my principles. Ihedinobi: when i begin to measure my Christian behavior using the mosaic law, then the law written in my heart will be rendered redundant/irrelevant. 1 Like |
Re: Deuteronomy 28 Is Not For Christians; Ephesians 1:3 Is Our Key To Blessings by Zikkyy(m): 7:22pm On Apr 30, 2013 |
MostHigh: This man, you still dey here |
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