liftedone:


What has happened to correction, instructions in righteousness, suffering as good soldiers of Jesus Christ and not entangling ourselves in civilian matters? There's much to be desired in Christianity in Nigeria. And prayer may look defeatist to some, but no action can be taken unless we pray first. And let that revolution start with the man in the mirror.

what do you think of Matthew 22: 15-22, particularly verse 21 concerning paying taxes to Caesar? Do you think it applies only to paying taxes to government or rather goes beyond to include obligations to government as citizens? The story is also in Mark 12, Luke 20 to emphasise the important lesson therein.
you can also read the Epistles, which contain several references of recommended Christian attitudes to societal issues and governance.

anonimi:

what do you think of Matthew 22: 15-22, particularly verse 21 concerning paying taxes to Caesar? Do you think it applies only to paying taxes to government or rather goes beyond to include obligations to government as citizens? The story is also in Mark 12, Luke 20 to emphasise the important lesson therein.
you can also read the Epistles, which contain several references of recommended Christian attitudes to societal issues and governance.

You have completely taken me out of context, sweetheart. Maybe you need to understand the spirit of what I was saying more than the letter of it. I was not referring to civilian matters in the context that you've taken it here. Do you have an axe to grind with me regarding the whole tithe and offering issue? I don't think we should bring disagreements from other threads to a new thread. I choose to agree to disagree with any Christian who does not have the same opinion with me on any matter because my race is mine and theirs is theirs. Please let us have the right attitudes.

@anonimi: 2Timothy 2:4(AMP): "No soldier when in service gets entangled in the enterprises of civilian life; his aim is to satisfy and please the one who enlisted him". My context is we are in the world but we are not of the world.

liftedone,

sorry if i took you out of context. i was writing based on my understanding of what you wrote that seems to suggest Christians should steer clear of communal/societal issues & governance based on righteousness & christian morals BUT focus on prayers only.
thanks for your clarification.
meanwhile, please note that i have no axe to grind with a fellow Xtian on a discussion in which we both participated in a very mature manner and i am sure enlightened each other.

Joseph was the head political administrator in Egypt appointed by God for his purposes not Josephs, in the context of today he would be the Prime minister. Shedrack, Mishack & Abnego became the wisest men in the land, Daniel was a political administrator, all of them fulfilling Gods purpose in total obedience without question even if it would mean death.

Abraham a business magnate, Isaac an inheritor of wealth from God even in the valley

The essential defining feature amongst these recorded men of God, total obedience to the denial of the self for the purposes of God. You can add these sons of God Deborah & Esther as well.

You are not of this world but you are of the kingdom of God, manifest the kingdom of God and all its righteousness, soldiers of Christ.

komekn:


You are not of this world but you are of the kingdom of God, manifest the kingdom of God and all its righteousness, soldiers of Christ.

can i add Proverbs 14: 34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

Acts 10: 34-35: 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

becomes clearer why our country is still filled with various forms of misery despite astronomical church growth

For those, Xtians, m'uslims et al, who continue to think prayer (alone or mainly) can change Nigeria, kindly consider Nehemiah 2:

17 Then said I unto them, Ye see the distress that we are in, how Jerusalem lieth waste, and the gates thereof are burned with fire: come, and let us build up the wall of Jerusalem, that we be no more a reproach.

I am sure the m'uslims have Nehemiah in the K'oran.
Let us think very deeply and ask ourselves why he did not say let us pray for God to help us/intervene in building the walls of Jerusalem that lies waste

no

Never.

SOLUTION?

Kill our bad leaders



Phemour

Here's an idea, why don't we Nigerians just try doing the right thing because it is right and not because we are "religious or spiritual" people. Hell, an atheist civil servant in the US or UK probably behaves ten times better than our church or mosque going civil servants here. So what exactly is the advantage of our high level of "spirituality". I for one would rather be a country full of decent atheists than one full of so called religious citizens.

Tasma:

Here's an idea, why don't we Nigerians just try doing the right thing because it is right and not because we are "religious or spiritual" people. Hell, an atheist civil servant in the US or UK probably behaves ten times better than our church or mosque going civil servants here. So what exactly is the advantage of our high level of "spirituality". I for one would rather be a country full of decent atheists than one full of so called religious citizens.

Good point.

@ madamkoko

A little story you might enjoy. The other day i had to visit our "friendly" neighbourhood police to "bail" out a neighbor that had been arrested for
"wandering" outside his house. Sorry about the repeated use of the quote marks " ", just helps convey the message of the story. At the police station I had to wait for over an hour because the DPO was holding a morning prayer session with everybody in the station for over an hour! Finally I get to see the DPO and he warns me about the threat of miscreants in the neighbourhood skillfully avoiding the fact that the neighbour had offered to pick his bank ID card from his flat when he was being arrested.

The neighbour was finally released after i contributed "willingly" towards breakfast money for the "boys".

I don't even know where to begin, first is the fact that about two hours of tax payers money was spent by our boys in black in a prayer session while at work! Secondly the fact that this same people would be on the street 10 mins later demanding 200 bucks from any road user seems not to be a problem with our "holy ghost filled" cops.

This story is not to talk about corruption in the police force, the corruption exists in almost every institution in Nigeria. The point is how we so
efficiently separate our spiritual activities from our day to day life. Thousands are in Church speaking in tongues on Sunday,and back at work pocketing their own share of misappropriated funds on Monday. Shameful!

Prayers change things.
Prayers can save Nigeria BUT we do need to do the right things as well. We can be destroying Nigeria and telling Gpd to help us build it everytime. We will reap what we sow and we seem to be sowing seeds of corruption and maladministration on a daily basis; do we expect to reap a good economy based on that?

@ Tasma nice one.

Armed robbers too pray during robbery. In fact, the xtian religion has been cheapened beyond measures.

madamkoko:

@ Tasma nice one.

Armed robbers too pray during robbery. In fact, the xtian religion has been cheapened beyond measures.

Or there's the church where members were giving testimony and a woman got up to say that she had been ill and couldn't go to work and so didn't know where the next money was coming from. All she could do was pray. And lo and behold she received a visit from some of her work colleagues who brought her her 'share' of the money that they usually share at work. She hadn't expected that they would think of her and reserve her 'share' for her. Praise God!

This is not a matter of whether Christianity is a true or false religion. Or whether it works or not. This is a matter of Christianity Does Not Work in Nigeria. At least not for most of the people. Huxley started a thread a while back asking whether 300 years ago the first africans to come into contact with european christianity would understand the concepts such as virgin birth etc. I say why go back 300 years. How many africans get christianity today?
If a christian can stand up in church and testify and praise God for getting Egunje, and there were pastors present in that church (my mom actually had a word with the pastor about it but he just shrugged), can you really say that she gets christianity. How many nigerians worship a God of Egunje?

It is for this reason that I've abandoned the term christianity. My God is not a God of Egunje and I do not want to be classed with those that worship a god of egunje.

I would love to do a survey to ascertain what most nigerian consider of God and the manner in which he relates to us and our respective roles in Life.

ps. These gods of egunje can and do answer prayers. so prayers do work, and they can change nigeria.

I would love to do a survey to ascertain what most nigerian consider of God and the manner in which he relates to us and our respective roles in Life.

I think that what you will find will be extremely shocking. Religion in Nigeria, is a good area of study.

Prayers might just serve to make Nigeria more slavish. Lets make Nigeria a better place. Lets build this country of ours on the principles of ABSOLUTE HONESTY, ABSOLUTE PURITY ,ABSOLUTE UNSELFISHNESS & ABSOLUTE LOVE.

Hello all ma people out there,
Prayers has its own part to play in changing this nation, no doubt.
A lot of us have been talking about the government and what they have done and not done, But we have to understand that CORRUPTION IN OUR COUNTRY IS NOT A GOVERNMENT PROBLEM, It is a PEOPLE PROBLEM. Untill the hearts of the people are turn towards the right, Nigeria will always be corrupt, The leaders that we have and have had in the past, did not come from some other country, but Nigeria.

We should stop focusing on the leaders and look at ourself, Even GOD, Cannot change a man, until the mindset of the man is changed!, Think Right and I bet you, you'll naturally do that which is right.

Don't wait for the next man to creat a change, You start!, And the Nigeria of our dream, would become a reality.

God Bless You

@ Africankel

I don't think anyone is talking about corruption being a government problem in Nigeria. The issue is the fact that in Nigeria the high level of "spirituality", church and mosque attendance, numerous night vigils seems to have done nothing to improve the quality of life in the country. In fact paradoxically the country is still one of the highest ranked worldwide in terms of corruption! How do you explain this? This is why I said I would even prefer a country full of right thinking, conscientious atheists to this disgrace of a system we run.

@Tasma

Thats why I said, it is a PEOPLE PROBLEM., If everyone changes his or her mindset to think right! Nigeria will be better, and it has to start from the church.

Africankel:

@Tasma

Thats why I said, it is a PEOPLE PROBLEM., If everyone changes his or her mindset to think right! Nigeria will be better, and it has to start from the church.

What kind of rubbish is this ? Church ? how can change be possible if you exclude muslims (who are a huge part of the population) ? With the sound of the likes of you, Nigeria will NEVER CHANGE. Let change remain in your dreams.

why not, prayer can even change the devil, ( at least thats our believe in nigeria). WE DONT NEED PRAYERS

QUESTION; Can prayer change Nigeria.

Answer; Hells No.

Reason; Prayer has never ever changed anything ever before. If prayers could change the world, the Vatican, Jamaica and Nigeria would be the super powers of the world _{(It would be G3 summit not G8).} Afrca would be the most prosperous continent on the planet.
Simply put, prayer/s is/are partly responsible for the problems in the country today.
Let me elaborate. I just got back into Nigeria after five years and although it feel good to be back home, I still wonder why we are still were we were five years ago. Nothing is new except the Naira. Even the exchange rate did not really change.
The Niger Delta crisis is still on, I am half Niger Delta and I must say that shit is real down south, the people are really bottom of the food chain in Nigeria. Niger Delta Development Commission (NDDC) which was set up to help bring development to the Niger Delta spent millions sponsoring a crusade to pray for peace in the Niger Delta. I was awe struck when I saw this. PRAYER FOR PEACE How do you hope to achieve peace when the people are angry?? God should make them comfortable in their misery??
Skip that. The Nation in general. Everytime we screw up something, we fall back on the lazy mans solution, prayers. Nigerian telecoms (NITEL) was run down by Nigerians, and I remember a National prayer conference were ministers and state governors were in attendance and they were asking for gods intervention in Nitel, Nigerian Airways, Nigerian Railway, Nigerian Power sector, Nigerian Banking Sector, Fire Service, Health Sector, Government e.t.c. HOW?? What would the prayers do?? Even your bible has said it "Faith without works . . . . " _{(Its been a long time so some bible scholar or a practicing christian should fill in the blanks)}
Pray for the economy. For God to do what?? Come down and plant crops, harvest them, sell and export them for us?? Or For him to build up industries and send Jesus down to work in them?? O! or maybe he should just magically increase our GNI?? Or he should just change the world economy and automatically make 1naira = 100 dollars. _{(Is it me or are christians actually delusional)} .

Prayers have never changed nothing. Will never change nothing and Can never change nothing.
Pray all you want, if shit is real, shits gonna happen.

We want to be like America. I remember hearing one Idiot say "America is successful because they put in the "IN GOD WE TRUST" in their motto." I laughed my ass off.
I guess Nigerias motto should be "NA GOD WE DEY WAIT" or "NA GOD SABI" or "IN GOD WE DEPEND".

Tasma:

@ Africankel

I don't think anyone is talking about corruption being a government problem in Nigeria. The issue is the fact that in Nigeria the high level of "spirituality", church and mosque attendance, numerous night vigils seems to have done nothing to improve the quality of life in the country. In fact paradoxically the country is still one of the highest ranked worldwide in terms of corruption! How do you explain this? This is why I said I would even prefer a country full of right thinking, conscientious atheists to this disgrace of a system we run.

america is the only developed country which majority of it citizens believes in god and still prays, 80 percant of the people in finnland do not pray to any god or goddess yet finnand is heaven compared to that hell called nigeria.

God don't answer sinners prayers.

Arent' we all "sinners" ?

We have all sinned and come short of the glory of god.

Abi na america holy pass??

Abi oh, help me ask am.

imagine the muslim holy month begins today, put it on regord that our economy would take a serious nose dive this period