~Lady~:

To us there's a relationship between the living and the dead.

Only one woman tried this in the bible - the witch of Endor.

~Lady~:

There's a communion of Christ of Heaven and Earth.

Where in the bible did you find this?

@topic
Listened attentively to the Pope's statement regarding the crisis that has wrecked the Catholic church for the past couple of years.  While I empathise with him, I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that celibacy has failed and this problem will therefore continue to be synonymous with that religion, My 2cents,

Where in the bible did you find this?

The three states of The Church.

"When the Lord comes in glory, and all his angels with him, death will be no more and al things will be subject to him. But at the present time some of his disciples are pilgrims on earth. Others have died and are being purified, while still others are in glory, contemplating 'in full light, God himself triune and one, exactly as he is'" Catechism

Go read 1 Corinthians 15

"So it is that the union of the wayfarers with the brethren who sleep in the peace of Christ is in no way interrupted, but on the contrary, according to the constant faith of the Church, this union is reinforced by an exchange of spiritual goods." Catechism

Ephesians 4:16
from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body's growth and builds itself up in love.


The intercession of The Saints
"Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness, They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, so by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."

I will return with the rest.

Listened attentively to the Pope's statement regarding the crisis that has wrecked the Catholic church for the past couple of years. While I empathise with him, I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that celibacy has failed and this problem will therefore continue to be synonymous with that religion, My 2cents,

So why are Pastors committing the same sin? Especially the married ones.

~Lady~:

The three states of The Church.

"When the Lord comes in glory, and all his angels with him, death will be no more and al things will be subject to him. But at the present time some of his disciples are pilgrims on earth. Others have died and are being purified, while still others are in glory, contemplating 'in full light, God himself triune and one, exactly as he is'" Catechism

Go read 1 Corinthians 15

"So it is that the union of the wayfarers with the brethren who sleep in the peace of Christ is in no way interrupted, but on the contrary, according to the constant faith of the Church, this union is reinforced by an exchange of spiritual goods." Catechism

Ephesians 4:16
from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body's growth and builds itself up in love.


The intercession of The Saints
"Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness, They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus, so by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped."

I will return with the rest.

1. Your quote from Ephesians 4 has no basis here.
2. you quoted liberally from the "catechism" yet merely told me to go read 1 Cor 15. The classic hallmark of heretical organisations.
3. 1 Cor 15 has nothing to do with a "communion of Christ of Heaven and Earth" neither does it say anything about "a relationship between the living and the dead".
4. Christ conquered death and the grave . . how can there then be a relationship between death and eternal life? knowest thou not that spiritual death is eternal separation from God?

~Lady~:

So why are Pastors committing the same sin? Especially the married ones.

You raise a thought-provoking, controversial and very important point. Sadly,I cannot honestly provide you with an answer. I, however, will stick to my word that celibacy has failed. In thinking of an appropriate answer to your question, one may also ask, why do good children grow up to become criminals? I guess there are no straight forward answers for either,

~Antidote~:

@topic
Listened attentively to the Pope's statement regarding the crisis that has wrecked the Catholic church for the past couple of years.  While I empathise with him, I honestly believe in my heart of hearts that celibacy has failed and this problem will therefore continue to be synonymous with that religion, My 2cents,

I suppose that city of sin and heresy knew more than Apostle Paul who said this - 1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

~Antidote~:

You raise a thought-provoking, controversial and very important point. Sadly,I cannot honestly provide you with an answer. I, however, will stick to my word that celibacy has failed. In thinking of an appropriate answer to your question, one may also ask, why do good children grow up to become criminals? I guess there are no straight forward answers for either,

I'm sorry but Lady's question is not thought provoking but is as old as 2000yrs. Even Christ had 12 disciples and 1 was a devil. How much more mere pastors who are but flesh and blood like you and me.
Apostle Paul said - Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Pastors are humans too and prone to fall into error.

4 Him:

I suppose that city of sin and heresy knew more than Apostle Paul who said this - 1 Corinthians 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

You hit the hammer on the nail,  unfortunately some won't see it this way.  Maybe instead of grabbing unto straws, some people should spend quality time in  the Word,( I must confess I have to do so as well),  thus their understanding,   or lack  of it for that matter, of what was stipulated won't be this clouded,

4 Him:
Even Christ
I'm sorry but Lady's question is not thought provoking but is as old as 2000yrs.[b] had 12 disciples and 1 was a devil. How much more mere pastors who are but flesh and blood like you and me.[/b]Apostle Paul said - Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Pastors are humans too and prone to fall into error.

Ironically, after I posted my reply this very said predicament came to mind, You beat me to it. Very good illustration. It more or less dealt with the issue that she raised,

4 Him:

I'm sorry but Lady's question is not thought provoking but is as old as 2000yrs. Even Christ had 12 disciples and 1 was a devil. How much more mere pastors who are but flesh and blood like you and me.
Apostle Paul said - Romans 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Pastors are humans too and prone to fall into error.

I cant believe the amount of contradiction I am reading on this thread. So to defend the pastors , U agree that no system is flawless. But in case of the Catholic priests  that argument does not hold. Celibacy should scraped cos some priests could not live up to thier vows. Next U would be advocating for polygamous marriages merely on the ground that some spouses are unfaithful.

It is easy to stand and throw stones at the catholic church while keeping the church u attend a secret.

~Antidote~:

You hit the hammer on the nail, unfortunately some won't see it this way. Maybe instead of grabbing unto straws, some people should spend quality time in the Word,( I must confess I have to do so as well), thus their understand, or lack of it for that matter, of what was stipulated won't be this clouded,

Enuff said.

Uche2nna:


I can't believe the amount of contradiction I am reading on this thread. So to defend the pastors , You agree that no system is flawless. But in case of the Catholic priests  that argument does not hold. Celibacy should scraped because some priests could not live up to their vows. Next You would be advocating for polygamous marriages merely on the ground that some spouses are unfaithful.

It is easy to stand and throw stones at the catholic church while keeping the church u attend a secret.

no contradiction here uncle. First and foremost, celibacy is NOT advocated as a must in the bible.
Infact the bible CLEARLY says that Bishops should be husbands of one wife.
Peter, whom you claim as your first pope, was a married man.

4 Him:

no contradiction here uncle.

Nothing wey my eye no go see

4 Him:

no contradiction here uncle. First and foremost, celibacy is NOT advocated as a must in the bible.
Infact the bible CLEARLY says that Bishops should be husbands of one wife.
Peter, whom you claim as your first pope, was a married man.

And show me where it is banned

There are plenty of ways to serve God. Becoming a priest is just one of them. U have other venues by which U can serve God and be married but once u decide to become a catholic priest U know u would be taking the vows of celibacy. It takes in total approximately 12 yrs (after seminary school) to become priest. A long time for u to make up mind. U can leave anytime within this time period. But once u take those vows we expect u to keep those vows because nobody conscripted U to become a priest in the first place. The whole concept is not "evil" just because some priests did not keep thier vows.

Pastors still have affairs outside thier mmatrimonial homes, maybe we should allow them to marry more than one wife to assuage thier hunger.

Imhotep,

you said i should quote my sources. Its just why i usually say your priests are actually the ones i should be discussing with in matters that relate to them. You are not a priest or so i presume and therefore wont know what happens in their seminaries. You can't know what they are being taught let alone know the books they use in their theological sessions. You are just a kid in Catholicism (sorry to say) because you can't see beyond your nose.

Like i emphasized the other time, go and look for the book called the Dignity and Duties of the Priests by St. Alphonsus Liguori. Read it up. You may need to get to Rome before you can find it or if lucky, one of your select priests may have it in his library. It is not a book you just find anywhere because the Catholic Church is founded in so much secrecy. It is rather a cult than anything else. Please you need sincerity of heart and purpose to be able to know more about your church and their doctrines. Just mention the name of that book to one of your learned priests and mention the author of it. If he says he is familiar with it then probe further into the allegations i have made here. I am sure if he confides in you that it is true, you will not have the balls to come here and share it with us. Alphonsus Liguori is a man even the pope revere so much and his teachings are taken as law in the Vatican. Can you please read it up?

The catholic church have no regard for holiness, their norms are not driven by the scriptures. You just invalidated the scriptures you claim to have canonised by saying why should you take a book compiled after hundreds of years of Christ death seriously. Therein lies the problem. RCC is not scripture based and as such its teachings are outside the bible. Apostle Paul said, if any man brings to you another gospel other than what you have learnt, let him be accursed. The bible you claim to have canonized, anathematizes you completely.

Imhotep my guy, you amazed me when you talked about your blind belief in the infallibility of popes. You are ridiculing intelligence and undermining rational thinking. Imhotep, on what basis did the dogma of infallibility come in? Do you know its history? By induction, do you know that it is impossible for a pope to sin and make mistakes? Do you realize what infallibility means or you care to look it up in the dictionary a second time? I you say you are sure of what you are saying, i have a question for you. Do you know that certain popes have been anathematized by the RCC and declared heretics? Why should the Vatican come back to curse a previous pope if he was indeed infallible?

Several Popes have had to apologize for his errors in statement and conduct in the past and you say they are infallible. Stop mocking Thesaurus please. One thing keeps amazing me, these same popes claim as one of their numerous official titles of the papacy, the title: Vicarious Filli Dei, meaning literarily and in substance that "the popes hold on the earth, the place of God Almighty" ! My heart skips even in trying to write out this blasphemy - Revelation 17 describes the RCC and its future anyway so beware if you are wise).

[b]The place of God? [/b]Obviously not the God of heaven and earth. It must be the god of rome, probably the lady of fatima which is very different from the Mary of the Bible. Again, the place of God? Just a quick one, your pope cannot even say a prayer than can move mountain even after venerating the idol of one mary that is not of the bible. Not a single act similar to that of Jehovah God yet they claim to be in the pace of God - maybe gawd. Infallibility and Vicariusity indeed! Dont mock intelligence please i beg of you.

To my friends talking about celibacy i have this to say: Celibacy, as practiced by the RCC is demonic. It is from the pit of hell and the height of deceit and cheating. People who have no grace for celibacy just rush into it and sell their souls to the devil for no cause. Let your catholic priest go and marry. It does not work for them. The ones who have violated young boys, the ones with pedophilia raging inside of them, and the ones who have kept themselves all have the same rewards as nothing is done to the former even after the barrage of lawsuits. Why has the church paid over $2bn dollars in damages to victims of the priests? Ask yourself why they have not allowed the priest to suffer the wrath of the law for violating young boys and girls in their prime.

When you hear RCC, please run. Go and study more about the inner workings of the Vatican. A lowly and willing spirit will help you know more and make scales fall of your eyes.

For the bible you canonized, why are you not reading it and allow your priests to do the reading and interpretation for you? They tell you that thinking by yourself will lead you to error? Are they not humans too? They have thought for you and are passing heresies to you and you take it hook, line and sinker. They are humans and could make the mistakes you make too and many a mistake they have made which has led and still leading people to damnation. Please check these things out.

You raise a thought-provoking, controversial and very important point. Sadly,I cannot honestly provide you with an answer. I, however, will stick to my word that celibacy has failed. In thinking of an appropriate answer to your question, one may also ask, why do good children grow up to become criminals? I guess there are no straight forward answers for either,

America has a 50% divorce rate - despite the fact that Jesus spoke against divorce. In fact, most people now resort to serial polygamy (marrying up to 10 wives/husbands in their lifetime)

Now someone hypocritically turns around and says celibacy has failed. What hubris.

cgift:
Imhotep,

you said i should quote my sources. Its just why i usually say your priests are actually the ones i should be discussing with in matters that relate to them. You are not a priest or so i presume and therefore wont know what happens in their seminaries. You can't know what they are being taught let alone know the books they use in their theological sessions. You are just a kid in Catholicism (sorry to say) because you can't see beyond your nose.

You know next to nothing about me.

cgift:
Like i emphasized the other time, go and look for the book called the Dignity and Duties of the Priests by St. Alphonsus Liguori. Read it up. You may need to get to Rome before you can find it or if lucky, one of your select priests may have it in his library. It is not a book you just find anywhere because the Catholic Church is founded in so much secrecy. It is rather a cult than anything else. Please you need sincerity of heart and purpose to be able to know more about your church and their doctrines. Just mention the name of that book to one of your learned priests and mention the author of it. If he says he is familiar with it then probe further into the allegations i have made here. I am sure if he confides in you that it is true, you will not have the balls to come here and share it with us. Alphonsus Liguori is a man even the pope revere so much and his teachings are taken as law in the Vatican. Can you please read it up?

Since you are an expert on this book, please educate us.

cgift:
The catholic church have no regard for holiness, their norms are not driven by the scriptures. You just invalidated the scriptures you claim to have canonised by saying why should you take a book compiled after hundreds of years of Christ death seriously. Therein lies the problem. RCC is not scripture based and as such its teachings are outside the bible. Apostle Paul said, if any man brings to you another gospel other than what you have learnt, let him be accursed. The bible you claim to have canonized, anathematizes you completely.

Read about the anathemas declared in the Council of Trent here ==> http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/trent.htm . I believe it is these anathemas that has led to the deep confusion found among protestants. 33,000 sects -> from ONE bible?

cgift:
Imhotep my guy, you amzed me when you talked about your blind belief in the infallibility of popes. You are ridiculing intelligence and undermining rational thinking. Imhotep, on what bassi did the dogma of infallibility come in? Do you know its history? By inducton, do you know that it is impossible for a pope to sin and make mistakes? Do you realise what infalliblity means or you care to look it up in the dictionary a second time? I you say you are sure of what you are saying, i have a question for you. Do you know that certain popes have been anathematized by the RCC and declared heretics? Why should the Vatican come back to curse a previous pope if he was indeed infallible?

You don't know what 'Papal Infallibilty' means. Google it and read the RIGHT sources. Stop reading hate-mongering, jealous and insecure protestant sources.

cgift:
Several Popes have had to apologize for his errors in statement and conduct in the past and you say they are infallible. Stop mocking Thesaurus please. One thing keeps amazing me, these same popes claim as one of their numerous official titles of the papacy, the title: Vicarious Filli Dei, meaning literarily and in substance that "the popes hold on the earth, the place of God Almighty" ! My heart skips even in trying to write out this blasphemy - Revelation 17 describes the RCC and its future anyway so beware if you are wise).

I repeat => You don't know what 'Papal Infallibilty' means. Google it and read the RIGHT sources. Stop reading hate-mongering, jealous and insecure protestant sources.

cgift:
The place of God? Obviously not the God ofheaven and earth. It must be the god of rome, probably the lady of fatima which is very differnet from the Mary of the Bible. Again, the place of God? Just a quick one, your pope cannot even say a prayer than can move mountain even after venerating the idol of one mary that is not of the bible. Not a single act similar to that of Jehovah God yet they claim to be in the pace of God - maybe gawd. Infallibility and Vicariusity indeed! Dont mock intelligence please i beg of you.

The concept of God you carry about with you was developed and defended by the Catholic church -> Trinity, Hypostatic union of Christ, etc etc. Wake up.

cgift:
To my friends talking about celibacy i have this to say: Celibacy, as practiced by the RCC is demonic. It is from the pit of hell and the height of deceit and cheating. People who have no grace for celibacy just rush into it and sell their souls to the devil for no cause. Let your catholic priest go and marry. It does not work for them. The ones who have violated young boys, the ones with pedophalia raging inside of them, and the ones who have kept theirselves all have the same rewards as nothing is done to the former even after servicing them. Why has the church paid over $2bn dollars in damages to victims of the priests? Ask yourself why they have not allowed the priest to suffer the wrath of the law for violating young boys and girls in their prime.

There is no link between celibacy and pedophilia - if that is what you want to establish.

cgift:
When you hear RCC, please run. Go and study more about the inner workings of the Vatican. A lowly and willing spirit will help you know more and make scales fall of your eyes.

You need to go on pilgrimage to the Vatican.

cgift:
For the bible you canonised, why are you not reading it and allow your priests to do the reading and interpretation for you? They tell you that thinking by yourself will lead you to error? Are they not humans too? They have thought for you and are passing herecies to you and you take it hool line and sinker. They are humans and could make the mistakes you make too.

Stop working out of hatred. Catholics theologians are the best. The pope's visit is currently shaking USA. The Catholic church will keep confounding protestants and making them jealous. The protestants have to learn to live with this.

Imhotep says:
You can see that the young man's re-conversion to protestantism was somewhat coerced. One cannot rely on such a person for historical background checks.
Did the books he wrote express his heartfelt views, or was he also constrained to write the way he did

The book The Rise and Fall of Rome was a history book and his scholarship has been supported by other scholars and all the evidence we have. He conversion to one religion or the other has nothing to do with it. In fact the sheer fact that he was catholic would probably make him better disposed towards them in his portrayal.
But the most important point I want to raise of all is that what I wrote came from many sources over the years. Luckily we are in the internet age so all you have to do is google terms like 'The council of Ephesus' or the Council of Chalcedon. You will get a wealth of information on these events. Then you can come back to me and argue whatever points you want to argue. But till then illogical arguments such as, I paraphrase, 'Gibbons was not sure about his religion therefore his scholarship of history is to be discounted' are not just illogical but somewhat insulting to my intelligence.

I have here a website set up by the catholic church that discusses this council: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05491a.htmhttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05491a.htm

If there is anything that I say that you want to question please just google it first. It doesn't take a minute. Then talk to me about it.

imhotep:
You know next to nothing about me.

That is not the bone of contention.

imhotep:
Since you are an expert on this book, please educate us.

I am not your priest. Go and grab a copy fast and educate yourself. You can read very well i am sure about that and you can make sense out of what you read. May be when you read with your own eyes what your priest are taught, you will have a rethink.

imhotep:
Read about the anathemas declared in the Council of Trent here ==> http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/trent.htm . I believe it is these anathemas that has led to the deep confusion found among protestants. 33,000 sects -> from ONE bible?

There is nothing as such. Protestants are continually seeking out knowledge and truth through revelations from te Spirit of God. There will continually be differing opinions as it relates to doctrines but the central theme is the message of the cross and the gospel which catholics have relegated to the backgroud. The central theme has no place for purgatory, salvation through works, fatima worship, bla bla bla,

imhotep:
You don't know what 'Papal Infallibilty' means. Google it and read the RIGHT sources. Stop reading hate-mongering, jealous and insecure protestant sources.
I repeat => You don't know what 'Papal Infallibilty' means. Google it and read the RIGHT sources. Stop reading hate-mongering, jealous and insecure protestant sources.

Tell us Imhotep's or RCC's version of Infallibility. This is a forum and we expect to share knowledge. Make us understnad what it means. If they were no google, how would you enlighten your critics?

imhotep:
The concept of God you carry about with you was developed and defended by the Catholic church -> Trinity, Hypostatic union of Christ, etc etc. Wake up.

Fallacy and sophistry of the highest order. Who begged them to defend God. God is not a wafer bread of your Eucharist that is to be defended lol. Serious slumbering here! Did i get that? You developed the concept of God, o ma gao (this is the height! Heresy has dedicated rooms in the Vatican

imhotep:
There is no link between celibacy and pedophilia - if that is what you want to establish.

In your wildest dreams. Those guys are burning. Why can't they just take Apostle Paul's counsel that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife? Why? Instead of burning and attaining orgasm with toddlers? I think when they engage your kid some day you will wake from your slumber

imhotep:
You need to go on pilgrimage to the Vatican.

To see more cults and be told the reson why you have 9 commandments instead of ten to justify your worship of idols?

imhotep:
Stop working out of hatred. [b]Catholics theologians are the best. [/b]The pope's visit is currently shaking USA. The Catholic church will keep confounding protestants and making them jealous. The protestants have to learn to live with this.

Delusional! This is not hatred. Come to terms with it and open up to the truth. It stares you in the face. That evil is colossal does not make it eternal.

PastorAIO:
The book The Rise and Fall of Rome was a history book and his scholarship has been supported by other scholars and all the evidence we have. He conversion to one religion or the other has nothing to do with it. In fact the sheer fact that he was catholic would probably make him better disposed towards them in his portrayal.

He lived in a time when it was politically correct to be anti-catholic in England. I will take his works with a bag of salt.

PastorAIO:
But the most important point I want to raise of all is that what I wrote came from many sources over the years. Luckily we are in the internet age so all you have to do is google terms like 'The council of Ephesus' or the Council of Chalcedon. You will get a wealth of information on these events. Then you can come back to me and argue whatever points you want to argue. But till then illogical arguments such as, I paraphrase, 'Gibbons was not sure about his religion therefore his scholarship of history is to be discounted' are not just illogical but somewhat insulting to my intelligence.

His motives are questionable. Was he searching for the truth? Or was he trying to please one political god-father?

PastorAIO:
I have here a website set up by the catholic church that discusses this council: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05491a.htmhttp://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05491a.htm

If there is anything that I say that you want to question please just google it first. It doesn't take a minute. Then talk to me about it.

Good. Now we can discuss.

--------
BTW, when protestants identify the RCC with the 'LovePeddler of babylon' in the book of revelations, they silently imply that the RCC has been existing before the year 90 AD. Because the book of revelation was written about the year 90 AD.

What do u want to achieve when you make reference to these Councils?

cgift:

That is not the bone of contention.

Good.

cgift:

I am not your priest. Go and grab a copy fast and educate yourself. You can read very well i am sure about that and you can make sense out of what you read. May be when you read with your own eyes what your priest are taught, you will have a rethink.

Alphonsus Liguori is a doctor of the Church.

cgift:

There is nothing as such. Protestants are continually seeking out knowledge and truth through revelations from te Spirit of God. There will continually be differing opinions as it relates to doctrines but the central theme is the message of the cross and the gospel which catholics have relegated to the backgroud. The central theme has no place for purgatory, salvation through works, fatima worship, bla bla bla,

Protestants also blend bible and juju in order to assist God perform miracles.

cgift:

Tell us Imhotep's or RCC's version of Infallibility. This is a forum and we expect to share knowledge. Make us understnad what it means. If they were no google, how would you enlighten your critics?

But there IS google. My critics should go and study.

cgift:

Fallacy and sophistry of the highest order. Who begged them to defend God. God is not a wafer bread of your Eucharist that is to be defended lol. Serious slumbering here! Did i get that? You developed the concept of God, o ma gao (this is the height! Heresy has dedicated rooms in the Vatican

Is the word 'Trinity' in the bible you carry around? Why do you believe it

cgift:

In your wildest dreams. Those guys are burning. Why can't they just take Apostle Paul's counsel that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife? Why? Instead of burning and attaining orgasm with toddlers? I think when they engage your kid some day you will wake from your slumber

Those who defined, explained and defended the Trinity you believe were celibate. Please reject the Trinity for starters.

cgift:

To see more cults and be told the reson why you have 9 commandments instead of ten to justify your worship of idols?

Even if that were true, it is better than blending bible with juju.

cgift:

Delusional! This is not hatred. Come to terms with it and open up to the truth. It stares you in the face. That evil is colossal does not make it eternal.

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. You should learn to live with the power and influence of the Catholic Church.

imhotep:

He live in a time when it was politically correct to be anti-catholic in England. I will take his works with a bag of salt.

His motives are questionable. Was he searching for the truth? Or was he trying to please one political god-father?

I know him as an historical scholar.  If you have criticism of Gibbons then the way to go about it is to pick a point on which you believe he has erred and than demonstrating in a scholarly way that he was wrong.  The Rise and Fall of Rome interestingly enough is a book about the Roman Empire, not about christianity.  

imhotep:


--------
BTW, when protestants identify the RCC with the 'LovePeddler of babylon' in the book of revelations, they silently imply that the RCC has been existing before the year 90 AD.  Because the book of revelation was written about the year 90 AD.

What do u want to achieve when you make reference to these Councils?

that LovePeddler of babylon statement is not just BTW it is completely Off the Way.  That has absolutely nothing to do with anything here.  Besides if it was a prophecy then the LovePeddler does not have to be in existence at the time of writing.

I made reference to the councils as part of a synopsis of the history of christianity cos I felt that knowledge of the history of Christianity (which most people here demonstrably lack) would be beneficial to the discussion.

Pastor AIO:

I know him as an historical scholar. If you have criticism of Gibbons then the way to go about it is to pick a point on which you believe he has erred and than demonstrating in a scholarly way that he was wrong. The Rise and Fall of Rome interestingly enough is a book about the Roman Empire, not about christianity.

History can be distorted for political motives. Do you know that some people now deny the Jewish holocaust of World War II Even with all the filmed and photographed evidence??

Pastor AIO:

that LovePeddler of babylon statement is not just BTW it is completely Off the Way. That has absolutely nothing to do with anything here. Besides if it was a prophecy then the LovePeddler does not have to be in existence at the time of writing.

The book of revelation was talking about events taking place at that time. ALL those that have tried to use it to calculate the end of the world have failed woefully --- sometimes killing themselves and other people in the process.

Pastor AIO:

I made reference to the councils as part of a synopsis of the history of christianity because I felt that knowledge of the history of Christianity (which most people here demonstrably lack) would be beneficial to the discussion.

These events led to the Great Schism between the Greek (East) and Latin (RCC) churches. This schism still exists. Though some Greek churches have come back to the Latin church. Search for "Eastern Catholic Churches" on google.

imhotep:

Good.
Alphonsus Liguori is a doctor of the Church.

You are just docking questions. They are too much for you to handle abi? Will you promise me you will read up the Dignity and Duties of the priest by St. Alphonsus Liguori? I will buy you wafers if you do

imhotep:

Protestants also blend bible and juju in order to assist God perform miracles.

Weak argument. Feeble lifebuoy. Say something more classy and sensible my guy. What you dont understand is more than you. Even your RCC you dont understand their inner workings, so why wont Protestants that you are not not bewilder you further?

imhotep:

But there IS google. My critics should go and study.

See your jaw dropping. I should research your church for you? It confirms only one thing - catholics dont give a damn about the lies they are even told in church. No stuff to share to counter my stance right? If i pour out more of my studies, you will just faint.

imhotep:

Is the word 'Trinity' in the bible you carry around? Why do you believe it

Those who defined, explained and defended the Trinity you believe were celibate. Please reject the Trinity for starters.

.

The word you are holding as if saying it alone will guaranty you paradise is not even in the bible. I dont canvass trinity. I however believe in God the father and that he sent his only begotten son (not mary) into the world to die for me. He now lives in by the Holy ghost. Those are central to my faith. What is Trinity? May be you define it for me.

imhotep:


Even if that were true, it is better than blending bible with juju.

You seem to be perfect in the working knowledge of juju as its been reverberating in your texts? We dont blend Bible with juju? of what essence?

imhotep:

Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hatred. You should learn to live with the power and influence of the Catholic Church.

I am only afriad that your precious soul be damned in hell and i am angered that you have refused to open the eyes of your mind to open truth and recognise exposed demonic teachings of the papacy. That you have the number of people and are very rich does not make God tingle. I does not irk me one bit. I do hope you know the history of the wealth the catholic church now wields today.

Come to the limelight bro.

cgift:

You are just docking questions. They are too much for you to handle abi? Will you promise me you will read up the Dignity and Duties of the priest by St. Alphonsus Liguori? I will buy you wafers if you do

Cheap escape route. You simply mis-read the book; just as you mis-quote and mis-apply the bible.

cgift:

Weak argument. Feeble lifebuoy. Say something more classy and sensible my guy. What you don't understand is more than you. Even your RCC you don't understand their inner workings, so why wont Protestants that you are not not bewilder you further?

Protestants bewilder THEMSELVES and their followers by mixing bible and juju. Simple.

cgift:

See your jaw dropping. I should research your church for you? It confirms only one thing - catholics don't give a damn about the lies they are even told in church. No stuff to share to counter my stance right? If i pour out more of my studies, you will just faint.

Which studies? Those based on heretics and politically motivated writers? We are not impressed.

cgift:

The word you are holding as if saying it alone will guaranty you paradise is not even in the bible. I don't canvass trinity. I however believe in God the father and that he sent his only begotten son (not mary) into the world to die for me. He now lives in by the Holy ghost. Those are central to my faith. What is Trinity? May be you define it for me.

Deny the Trinity - be consistent for once. Stop the cherry-picking.

cgift:

You seem to be perfect in the working knowledge of juju as its been reverberating in your texts? We don't blend Bible with juju? of what essence?

Tell that to the Cele people.

cgift:

I am only afriad that your precious soul be damned in hell and i am angered that you have refused to open the eyes of your mind to open truth and recognise exposed demonic teachings of the papacy. That you have the number of people and are very rich does not make God tingle. I does not irk me one bit. I do hope you know the history of the wealth the catholic church now wields today.

Come to the limelight bro.

Fanaticism is an overcompensation for doubt. Jealousy of the RCC will not take you anywhere. We refuse to join the 33,000 anathematized protestant sects.

cgift.

The Bible also does not instruct me to "pray" or "petition" to you, but that doesn't mean that I can't. .

Huney, asking me for something is very differenct from asking God. We are in two seperate realms. You could ask me to pray TO God but you cannot pray to me AS God. Thats the difference.

It does instruct us to pray for one another, we pray to the saints and Mary to pray for us, there is nothing wrong in that. To us there's a relationship between the living and the dead. There's a communion of Christ of Heaven and Earth.

Fine, but when you can show me that in the bible get back to me, k? And if there truly is a relationship between the living and the dead, do you pray to ex-popes, Mother Theresa and other famous catholics who in your view would qualify as Saints? Secondly, do you pray to your deceased loved ones who you believe are in heaven?

To us

Don't you think its important to ascertain that its the same to GOD? If you ask me, the best way to do that is to check the bible.

i logged in again today just to say weldone imhotep, lady and uche2nna.

Dominus Vobiscum.

but i'd like to advise you to ignore some persons, particularly cgift for obvious reasons.
the guy does not know the difference between study and wallowing in ignorance.

to him ignorance is bliss and authentic research with any aim in mind is truly beyond 
his reach.

lady this is specially for you:
Ave Maria, Mater Dei, Spes nostra, ora pro nobis (Hail Mary, Mother of God, our hope,
pray for us )

Carlosein:

i logged in again today just to say weldone imhotep, lady and uche2nna.

Thanks, my brother. How have you been?

Carlosein:

Dominus Vobiscum.

et c'um spiritu tuo.

Carlosein:

but i'd like to advise you ignore some persons, particularly cgift for obvious reasons.
the guy does not know the difference between study and wallowing in ignorance.
to him ignorance is bliss and authentic research with any aim in mind is truly beyond
his reach.

Not to worry. He is running (fast) on the wrong road. Na him go tire.

can't you guys see that the footsoldier of all'ah/belial  who started this thread has fulfilled his master's mission.
The Bible says anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus shall be saved.
The Lord knows those who are his.

Uche2nna and 4Him,go ye and sin no more

Lmao. . .Oh my God! This is too much! You're blaming the original poster for bruhahaha on this thread. . .because he's moslim? Are you going to blame him for all the other One million and one threads where Christians are fighting each other over which Church is God's dwelling place and which is the boys quarters? What about the threads pitching one Pastor against the other. . .should we blame that on the Moslims too? And let's not forget,  they are also to blame for the confusion over which kind of Christian another Christian should marry. Rotlmao!

The truth is Christians don't need an "outsider" to cause a division amongst them, they are doing a mighty fine job on their own. _{Can't wait to see which Church is going to get denounced today. I have an idea but I like surprises. . .exciting stuff!}

The Bible says anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus shall be saved.

Sure. . .until it's time for a Catholic to marry a Jehovah's witness or a thread about Cele and Deeper Life opens up and watch the lighted torches come out in droves.

Sometimes I wonder if people just mouth the words and don't really process it.

Sisikill:

The truth is Christians don't need an "outsider" to cause a division amongst them, they are doing a mighty fine job on their own.

I agree with you.

imhotep:

Thanks, my brother. How have you been?
et c'um spiritu tuo.
Not to worry. He is running (fast) on the wrong road. Na him go tire.

i am fine o.

but i need to run away from the office now before holdup builds.

take care and have a blessed weekend.

ciao!