mazaje:

Consiousness can not exist without the brain in humans, once the brain dies, everything dies with it. . .Human consiousness has never been shown to survive bodily death. . .

What you call consciousness is brought about by the spirit and the spirit lives on after death...

mazaje:
I asked and will ask again. . .Can you disproof reincarnation?. . .Do you have any evidence to show that people do not reincarnate into animals,plants, insects etc after they die?. . .

This is not a matter of what I can disprove or not...it's more about what you can prove...I am not asking you to disprove my position...just prove yours.

striktlymi:

Striktlymi lives in Ghana...

Striktlymi comes from Nigeria...

Striktlymi longs to be home in Nigeria...

Striktlymi therefore is lazy in Ghana...

Do you see the folly of your argument?

No where in your analogy do you claim you are not from ghana or nigeria. . .Many christians, happily convince themselves and others that they are not part of this world. . .They claim this life is just a test and the real life begins after they die in the imaginary heaven. . . .

...and where is your proof that there is no life after?

Simple, human coinsiousness does not survive bodily death. . .It has never been shown by any body. . .Afterlife is just an idea that has NO evidence what so ever to support it. . .I asked you to prove to me that people do not reincarnate. . .I can not disprove your mytholigy for you, but all I know is that it is an idea that has nothing to do with reality. . .

The above is very empty because you only replaced one claim with another...

Mazaje does not believe the claims of others but wants people to accept his claims as the truth?... Disbelieving one claim does not make another claim correct.

I said human consiousness does not survive bodily death. . .Life after death is a human idea and conception. . .That is all there is to it. . .If you can prove to me that reincarnation is false then i will also prove to you that your imaginary heaven is false. . .

Mr anony:
Why should I try to make the world a better place? Why not squeeze out every bit of sensual enjoyment I can before I go back to sleep?

Sensual enjoyment?

There's something fishy about you always claiming that religion is what's keeping from immorality and sexxual (or sensual) irresponsibility. It speaks volumes about the kind of person you really are.

cyrexx:

Sensual enjoyment?

There's something fishy about you always claiming that religion is what's keeping from immorality and sexxual (or sensual) irresponsibility. It speaks volumes about the kind of person you really are.

ad hominem fallacy

striktlymi:

What you call consciousness is brought about by the spirit and the spirit lives on after death...

Spirit?. . .Whats that?. . .And you have seen oir detected spirits living on after death where and when. . .My friend just lost her 4 years old child back in Nigeria. Is the child's spirit in heaven?. . .Will the baby's spirit remain a child forever in heaven?. . .Why does old age affect this your elusive spirit?. . .The woman that lives close to me here has alzheimer's disease. . .She is very old, she can say something and forget what she said immediately. Its that bad. . .Is she now doesn't remember or know any one and anything. . .Will he spirit suddely remember everything after she dies and goes to heaven?

This is not a matter of what I can disprove or not...it's more about what you can prove...I am not asking you to disprove my position...just prove yours.

I am just giving you another idea similar to the one you have been indoctrinated with. . .I don't have to be the one to disprove your assertion, the complete lack of evidence for your assertion is enough. . .What is asserted without evidence deserves o be dismissed without evidence. I just showed you that heaven is just a man made idea and concept like reincarnation , which is another man made idea and concept. . . .

cyrexx:

Sensual enjoyment?

There's something fishy about you always claiming that religion is what's keeping from immorality and sexxual (or sensual) irresponsibility. It speaks volumes about the kind of person you really are.

Very true. . .I wonder why he keeps doing this. . .The other time rape wasn't wrong when he was an atheist now sensual enjoyment. . .

mazaje:

No where in your analogy do you claim you are not from ghana or nigeria. . .

Go back and read the argument again...precisely the second premise...

mazaje:
Many christians, happily convince themselves and others that they are not part of this world. . .They claim this life is just a test and the real life begins after they die in the imaginary heaven. . . .

...and you continue in the folly. No need to go into what has already been thrashed.

mazaje:
Simple, human coinsiousness does not survive bodily death. . .

This is you again trying hard to pass your claim as the truth where you have not provided one shred of evidence...

mazaje:
It has never been shown by any body. . .Afterlife is just an idea that has NO evidence what so ever to support it. . .

Where is your evidence that there is no after-life?

mazaje:
I asked you to prove to me that people do not reincarnate. . .I can not disprove your mytholigy for you, but all I know is that it is an idea that has nothing to do with reality. . .

You are still having a hard time providing evidence for your claims?

mazaje:
I said human consiousness does not survive bodily death. . .Life after death is a human idea and conception. . .That is all there is to it. . .If you can prove to me that reincarnation is false then i will also prove to you that your imaginary heaven is false. . .

I say again that this is not about what I can prove but about what proof you can provide to support your claims. You ask us for proof but fail to prove your position.

Remember that the thread is about what Atheists think about the life after...so be ready to offer evidence for whatever you hold to be true.

mazaje:
Why do you keep asking these silly questions. . .

You haven't showed that the question is silly, you merely state it.

Why must he not try to make this world a better place?. . .

If there is no consequence for an action, there is no obligation to do or not to do it. The same applies to life. If there is no consequence for how one lives his/her life, then there is no obligation to live life in any particular manner.

You can squeeze out every bit of sensual enjoyment and still make this world a better place. . .

Really, how so? ....because the above sounds to me like you are saying that one can eat his cake and have it.

mazaje:

Spirit?. . .Whats that?. . .And you have seen oir detected spirits living on after death where and when. . .

You really do not know the half of it...

mazaje:
My friend just lost her 4 years old child back in Nigeria. Is the child's spirit in heaven?. . .Will the baby's spirit remain a child forever in heaven?. . .Why does old age affect this your elusive spirit?. . .The woman that lives close to me here has alzheimer's disease. . .She is very old, she can say something and forget what she said immediately. Its that bad. . .Is she now doesn't remember or know any one and anything. . .Will he spirit suddely remember everything after she dies and goes to heaven?

Emotions man...pure emotions!!!

mazaje:
I am just giving you another idea similar to the one you have been indoctrinated with. . .

I am not you...if you have been indoctrinated in Atheism...good for you but stop assuming what you have no idea about.

mazaje:
I don't have to be the one to disprove your assertion, the complete lack of evidence for your assertion is enough. . .What is asserted without evidence deserves o be dismissed without evidence. I just showed you that heaven is just a man made idea and concept like reincarnation , which is another man made idea and concept. . . .

Do not insult the bold...you call your claims show? You dismiss without evidence and went ahead to claim that you have shown it?...Oh my!

Anyways, what you are asked to do is not disprove what I hold but prove what you believe...isn't that simple enough?

Mr anony:
You haven't showed that the question is silly, you merely state it.

It doesn't make any sense. . .

If there is no consequence for an action, there is no obligation to do or not to do it. The same applies to life. If there is no consequence for how one lives his/her life, then there is no obligation to live life in any particular manner.

And consequnce for action can only be found in life after death? . . .There is consequence(both for good and for bad) to be found in this life. . .What exactly are you on about?. . .

Really, how so? ....because the above sounds to me like you are saying that one can eat his cake and have it.

Nope. you can gain many sensual pleasure and still make this world a better place. . .A lot of celebrities do that. . .They give millions of dollars to the funding and research for finding cure for cancer for example and the alleviation of poverty in many underdeveloped nations(making the world a better place) but they still go about squeezing sensual enjoymet(partying, drugs, booze etc). . .

cyrexx:

Sensual enjoyment?

There's something fishy about you always claiming that religion is what's keeping from immorality and sexxual (or sensual) irresponsibility. It speaks volumes about the kind of person you really are.

And it says a lot about you that "sensual" necessarily translates to "sexxual" for you.

Yeah, just another ad hominem to keep the diet balanced.

Mr anony:
Why should I try to make the world a better place? Why not squeeze out every bit of sensual enjoyment I can before I go back to sleep?

Because you're twisted? The hell do I care what you do (so long as you don't infringe on the rights of others). Note I posted that with an (imo).

striktlymi:

You really do not know the half of it...

Why must EVERYTHING about religion ad its claims be invisible, undetected, unknowable?. . .Isn't that a fraud?. . .Ask them about god, they will tell you he is invisible and doesn't want to show himself. . .Why would a being that is alleged to be all powerful, a being who WANTS to save humans and be in a personal relationship with them be invisible and undetected and invisible? You get many different incoherent gibberish answers from the proponents of the god hypothesis. . .Why is satan invisible like god since believers already believe he exist? all you get is anothe incoherent gibberish. . .Why can we only know something after we die?. . .All you get is another incoherrent gibberish. . .Religion is a fraud. . .It just keeps selling what is never there. . .

Emotions man...pure emotions!!!

I am asking you simple questions and you are replying me with this?. . .You are making a case for heaven and insisting that i exist as such I am asking you questions about it. . .Will a 4 years old child that died remain a child forever in heaven?. . .

I am not you...if you have been indoctrinated in Atheism...good for you but stop assuming what you have no idea about.

Heaven is not your idea or conception, it is the idea, conception and making of another person which you have bought into through indoctrination. . .You have never been to heaven all you have to lay hold to is the ideas and conception of others. . .You have been indoctrinated by friend. . .

Do not insult the bold...you call your claims show? You dismiss without evidence and went ahead to claim that you have shown it?...Oh my!

Anyways, what you are asked to do is not disprove what I hold but prove what you believe...isn't that simple enough?

I have shown you that heaven is just an idea like reincanation. . .

mazaje:
It doesn't make any sense. . .

"I think it is absurd therefore it is absurd" is not a valid argument

And consequnce for action can only be found in life after death?

The consequence for an action can only come after the action. Don't you think so? Shouldn't it follow that the consequence for a life has to come after the life has been lived?

. . .There is consequence(both for good and for bad) to be found in this life. . .What exactly are you on about?

Really, how did Stalin, Chairman Mao and Kim Jun Il manage to escape this consequence? After oppressing and torturing his people, Mao dies of a heart attack at the ripe old age of 83 like many people his age.
How about Babangida? He is currently enjoying the consequence of all his years of looting Nigeria as we speak. . . . .as well as many other prominent Nigerian criminals who have killed and robbed yet they will enjoy a better quality of life together with their children and grandchildren.

Tell me again that there is a consequence for good and evil in this life.

Nope. you can gain many sensual pleasure and still make this world a better place. . .A lot of celebrities do that. . .They give millions of dollars to the funding and research for finding cure for cancer for example and the alleviation of poverty in many underdeveloped nations(making the world a better place) but they still go about squeezing sensual enjoymet(partying, drugs, booze etc). . .

The question is why should you bother helping the poor? It will add nothing to your life. There is no consequence for helping the poor. You will all die one day why should you care about the quality of another person's life?

[quote author=striktlymi]

What you call consciousness is brought about by the spirit and the spirit lives on after death...

Here is where you keep getting it wrong, when a person is dead he is dead, the spirit is not a separate person with the ability to exist out of the body.

Mr anony:
"I think it is absurd therefore it is absurd" is not a valid argument

ok. . .

The consequence for an action can only come after the action. Don't you think so? Shouldn't it follow that the consequence for a life has to come after the life has been lived?

This is very false, consequnces of some actions come during the actions. . .Many of the things we do have immediate consequences. . .The shame of being caught stealing and the prison sentence and many other things associated with it is what stops many people from stealing. . .The penalty for violating many laws has immediate consequence. . .

Really, how did Stalin, Chairman Mao and Kim Jun Il manage to escape this consequence? After oppressing and torturing his people, Mao dies of a heart attack at the ripe old age of 83 like many people his age.
How about Babangida? He is currently enjoying the consequence of all his years of looting Nigeria as we speak. . . . .as well as many other prominent Nigerian criminals who have killed and robbed yet they will enjoy a better quality of life together with their children and grandchildren.

Sure, some escape it and most don't. . .Nigeria is generally a lawless society where its leaders get away with crime. . .In developed societies how ever even the leaders are held accountable and its a different thing altogether. . .Life is not fair, after all we are told that war criminals and murderers like Moses in the bible are enjying in heaven because they just happen to be amoungs your god's chosen men despite all their killings, rampage and lootings. . .There is an exception to everything. . .But generally when it comes to life most of our actions have immediate consequence. . .

Tell me again that there is a consequence for good and evil in this life.

Sure there is, most of the people in prisons are there as a result of their actions, that is the consequence of their actions. . .Many are not in prison but they are still suffering a lot for their actions in one way or the other. . .If you do good to people they will do good to you, if you do bad to them they will do bad to you. . .

The question is why should you bother helping the poor? It will add nothing to your life. There is no consequence for helping the poor. You will all die one day why should you care about the quality of another person's life?

I think you are a sick person. . .And am serious. . .People living in poverty and lack is a bad thing, and if you have more than enough you should help them because doing so is the right thing because you don't want to see people living in misery. . .There is a consequnce for helping the poor, you add value to their lives and the society as a whole and that is a good thing. So because you will die means that you shouldn't help others?. . .You are truly a sick person. . .You keep asking sick questions. . .

Mr anony:
"I think it is absurd therefore it is absurd" is not a valid argument

Twin bro, atheists generally think it is o!

The consequence for an action can only come after the action. Don't you think so? Shouldn't it follow that the consequence for a life has to come after the life has been lived?

Really, how did Stalin, Chairman Mao and Kim Jun Il manage to escape this consequence? After oppressing and torturing his people, Mao dies of a heart attack at the ripe old age of 83 like many people his age.
How about Babangida? He is currently enjoying the consequence of all his years of looting Nigeria as we speak. . . . .as well as many other prominent Nigerian criminals who have killed and robbed yet they will enjoy a better quality of life together with their children and grandchildren.

Tell me again that there is a consequence for good and evil in this life.



The question is why should you bother helping the poor? It will add nothing to your life. There is no consequence for helping the poor. You will all die one day why should you care about the quality of another person's life?

So on point, twin bro. Now for sitting back and figuring out how to miss the points you have made: yeah, you're right, bro, that's what these unbelievable guys do it.

mazaje:
This is very false, consequnces of some actions come during the actions. . .Many of the things we do have immediate consequences. . .The shame of being caught stealing and the prison sentence and many other things associated with it is what stops many people from stealing. . .The penalty for violating many laws has immediate consequence. . .

but you haven't showed a consequence that doesn't come after the act. Prison, and being caught usually come AFTER the action. "Immediately after" is not the same thing as "simultaneously"

Sure, some escape it and most don't. . .Nigeria is generally a lawless society where its leaders get away with crime. . .In developed societies how ever even the leaders are held accountable and its a different thing altogether. . .Life is not fair, after all we are told that war criminals and murderers like Moses in the bible are enjying in heaven because they just happen to be amoungs your god's chosen men despite all their killings, rampage and lootings. . .There is an exception to everything. . .But generally when it comes to life most of our actions have immediate consequence. . .

You still haven't shown that most of our actions have immediate consequences you have only asserted it. Secondly, I would challenge your claim that most people don't get away with evil because many do including and especially the ones who make and twist the laws.

Again I wonder how you can say that life is not fair. What other life are you comparing it to? In order to know that life is not fair, you must know what a fair life looks like. You cannot say that a line is crooked if you don't know what a straight line looks like.

Sure there is, most of the people in prisons are there as a result of their actions, that is the consequence of their actions. . .Many are not in prison but they are still suffering a lot for their actions in one way or the other. . .If you do good to people they will do good to you, if you do bad to them they will do bad to you. . .

What about those who are innocent yet they are in prison. Are they reaping the consequence of their actions too? How about those who have lied and cheated and even killed their way to riches, yet they have an entourage of people always kissing their feet, are they also reaping the consequences of their actions?

I think you are a sick person. . .And am serious. . .People living in poverty and lack is a bad thing, and if you have more than enough you should help them because doing so is the right thing because you don't want to see people living in misery. . .There is a consequnce for helping the poor, you add value to their lives and the society as a whole and that is a good thing. So because you will die means that you shouldn't help others?. . .You are truly a sick person. . .You keep asking sick questions. . .

ad hominem again. "I think you are sick therefore you are sick and your argument is sick" is not a valid argument.

I have not presented you with an argument that is in anyway absurd. You have not told me exactly why I should make someone else's life better especeially when it doesn't benefit me. Remember I only have one life and there is no existence or judgment after death so why should I inconvenience my life in any way? after all, I am accountable to no one but myself.

Since you are demanding that I live my life a certain way, I have every right to ask you why.

mazaje:

ok. . .





This is very false, consequnces of some actions come during the actions. . .Many of the things we do have immediate consequences. . .The shame of being caught stealing and the prison sentence and many other things associated with it is what stops many people from stealing. . .The penalty for violating many laws has immediate consequence. . .



Sure, some escape it and most don't. . .Nigeria is generally a lawless society where its leaders get away with crime. . .In developed societies how ever even the leaders are held accountable and its a different thing altogether. . .Life is not fair, after all we are told that war criminals and murderers like Moses in the bible are enjying in heaven because they just happen to be amoungs your god's chosen men despite all their killings, rampage and lootings. . .There is an exception to everything. . .But generally when it comes to life most of our actions have immediate consequence. . .



Sure there is, most of the people in prisons are there as a result of their actions, that is the consequence of their actions. . .Many are not in prison but they are still suffering a lot for their actions in one way or the other. . .If you do good to people they will do good to you, if you do bad to them they will do bad to you. . .



I think you are a sick person. . .And am serious. . .People living in poverty and lack is a bad thing, and if you have more than enough you should help them because doing so is the right thing because you don't want to see people living in misery. . .There is a consequnce for helping the poor, you add value to their lives and the society as a whole and that is a good thing. So because you will die means that you shouldn't help others?. . .You are truly a sick person. . .You keep asking sick questions. . .

What a vacuous response

Mr anony: but you haven't showed a consequence that doesn't come after the act. Prison, and being caught usually come AFTER the action. "Immediately after" is not the same thing as "simultaneously"

Like stepping on an electric cable, it will electricute you immediately you step on it not after. . .Fighting and getting beaten up in the process, you could fight with some one and get beat up in the process, engaging in wars and battles and being killed in the process.Drunk driving and having accidents in the process. . .Many actions have immediate consequence. . .Even if the consequence comes later, it still comes up in the this life. . .Not in the life after. . .People still or commit murder run away, get caught after some time and still go to prison or face justice in this same life. . .Some people commit crimes and pay for it decades later. . .

You still haven't shown that most of our actions have immediate consequences you have only asserted it. Secondly, I would challenge your claim that most people don't get away with evil because many do including and especially the ones who make and twist the laws.

Some people get away with evil while most don't unless if they live in a lawless society, if you live in a lawful society like the one i live in then its very difficult to get away with crime. . .In a lawless society like Nigeria its easy getting away with crime that is why crime is rampant and every where, in the society where I live crime is very low because its not easy getting away with crime. . .

Again I wonder how you can say that life is not fair. What other life are you comparing it to? In order to know that life is not fair, you must know what a fair life looks like. You cannot say that a line is crooked if you don't know what a straight line looks like.

I don't need another life to compare with this life, looking at this life alone is enough, some people are born blind while others are born with their sight intact, some and born crippled while others are not, some commit crime and get away with it and others do not, some work hard and get rewarded , while others work hard and have nothing to show for it. . .I must not know that another life exist because the fact that people do not have it equally here in this life despite putting in the same effort is enough for me to know that life is not fair. All i need is to compare the lives of individuals and that is enough to make my conclusion. . .You keep beging the question in an absurd way. . .

Even if we are to go by your life after death hypothesis it still isn't just because I gave you an example of a mass murderer like Moses who went about killing, raping, and looting, but according to you and your religion he is some where in heaven while his mass mudderer mate Moa is some where in hell. . .

What about those who are innocent yet they are in prison. Are they reaping the consequence of their actions too? How about those who have lied and cheated and even killed their way to riches, yet they have an entourage of people always kissing their feet, are they also reaping the consequences of their actions?

That is why i said life is not fair. . .But generally, with the system we have in place in societies that chose to adhere to the systems in placem people suffer for the consequnce of their actions. . .

ad hominem again. "I think you are sick therefore you are sick and your argument is sick" is not a valid argument.
I have not presented you with an argument that is in anyway absurd. You have not told me exactly why I should make someone else's life better especeially when it doesn't benefit me. Remember I only have one life and there is no existence or judgment after death so why should I inconvenience my life in any way? after all, I am accountable to no one but myself.

You are just showing how selfish you are since everything about your argument is all about you and you alone. To you a person should help others only if he stands to gain something in return, if that is not a sick and absurd reasoning then please tell me what it is. Why should you help others only because you stand to gain something from it?. . .

Even if we are to go buy your selfish reasoning, if I help 20 poor men out of poverty, there is a high tendency that tomorrow they will also help me or mine when i need help or when any one from me needs help from them and that is enough reason to help them, because no man is an island we all need help and favours during ourlife time. . .Helping others means that they will help you and yours in return and that is reason enough to help people. If a person goes around causing people pain and hurting people, the same will be done to such a person, people will like to cause him pain as well. . .

By the way you are not accountable to yourself alone, you are accountable to your, family, friends and society at large, that is why you MUST obey the laws of the land in which you find yourself in. . .If you disobey you suffer the consequence of disobeying or violating the laws. . .

Since you are demanding that I live my life a certain way, I have every right to ask you why.

Demanding that you live your life in what way?. . .

Ihedinobi:

Twin bro, atheists generally think it is o!



So on point, twin bro. Now for sitting back and figuring out how to miss the points you have made: yeah, you're right, bro, that's what these unbelievable guys do it.

Same can be said of your bible prophets. . .After killing uncountable number of people including babies, raping their women and babies, looting and stealing from them, enslaving them, we are told that people like Moses, Joshua etc are in heaven enjoying for their evil deeds just because they happen to belong to a race that claim they are god's chosen. . .Inetresting how these believers do it. . .

mazaje:

Like stepping on an electric cable, it will electricute you immediately you step on it not after. . .Fighting and getting beaten up in the process, you could fight with some one and get beat up in the process, engaging in wars and battles and being killed in the process.Drunk driving and having accidents in the process. . .Many actions have immediate consequence. . .Even if the consequence comes later, it still comes up in the this life. . .Not in the life after. . .People still or commit murder run away, get caught after some time and still go to prison or face justice in this same life. . .Some people commit crimes and pay for it decades later. . .

Actually the cable won't shock you until after you have placed your foot on it, you won't die in a fight until after you enter the fight etc etc

Some people get away with evil while most don't unless if they live in a lawless society, if you live in a lawful society like the one i live in then its very difficult to get away with crime. . .In a lawless society like Nigeria its easy getting away with crime that is why crime is rampant and every where, in the society where I live crime is very low because its not easy getting away with crime. . .

Actually, I was not talking about crime, I was talking about good and evil. A society can choose to legalize an evil deed and everyone will get away with it. Please don't confuse legality and morality. You haven't provided anything that is enough to convince me that most people suffer the consequence of their evil deeds while alive.

I don't need another life to compare with this life, looking at this life alone is enough, some people are born blind while others are born with their sight intact, some and born crippled while others are not, some commit crime and get away with it and others do not, some worj hard and get rewarded others work hard and have nothing to show for it. . .I must not know that another life exist because the fact that people do not have it equally here in this life despite putting in the same effort is enough for me to know that life is not fair. All i need is to comepare the lives of individuals and that is enough to ake my conclusion. . .You keep beging the question in an absurd way. . .

You missed the point of the question which is: where does your sense that things ought to be fair come from? Why is life supposed to be fair?
Surely you know that the fact that some people are healthy and some sick is not proof that they are all supposed to be healthy.

Even if we are to go by your life after death hypothesis it still isn't just because I gave you an example of a mass murderer like Moses who went about killing, raping, and looting, but according to you and your religion he is some where in heaven while his mass mudderer mate Moa is some where in hell. . .

This is a red herring constructed to derail the argument. My argument is simple: If there is no life after death, why shouldn't I live my life exactly as I like since in the end we all die?

That is why i said life is not fair. . .But generally, with the system we have in place in societies that chose to adhere to the systems in placem people suffer for the consequnce of their actions. . .

I hope you know that by saying life is not fair, you are rendering null the argument that people generally face the consequences of their actions in this life. Secondly even the "system" that you are talking about still has it's many faults and besides it is people punishing other people based solely on their opinion of right and wrong

You are just showing how selfish you are since everything about your argument is all about you and you alone. To you a person should help others only if he stands to gain something in return, if that is not a sick and absurd reasoning then please tell me what it is. Why should you help others only because you stand to gain something from it?. . .

And why shouldn't I be selfish here. The people you are asking me to help were'nt born with me neither will they die with me. I was born alone and I will die ALONE. Now tell me exactly why I have to live for the benefit of others.

Even if we are to go buy your selfish reasoning, if I help 20 poor men out of poverty, there is a high tendency that tomorrow they will also help me or mine when i need help or when any one from me needs help from them and that is enough reason to help them, because no man is an island we all need help and favours during ourlife time. . .Helping others means that they will help you and yours in return and that is reason enough to help people. If a person goes around causing people pain and hurting people, the same will be done to such a person, people will like to cause him pain as well. . .

Why should I hope someone will help me when I can just as easily rob him and still have friends who will love me for what they expect to get from me?

By the way you are not accountable to yourself alone, you are accountable to your, family, friends and society at large, that is why you MUST obey the laws of the land in which you find yourself in. . .If you disobey you suffer the consequence of disobeying or violating the laws. . .

What's the worst the land can do if not to kill me. I can even work my way to the top make the laws so that the land is now accountable to me and then proceed to killing millions of people. In the end, the worst thing that will happen is that I will die. If I am lucky, I might just die in my sleep on my golden bed at the ripe old age of 90.

The bottomline here is that if there is no afterlife, there is no real justice.

Demanding that you live your life in what way?. . .

You are demanding that I live my life according to your idea of morality

Ihedinobi:
Twin bro, atheists generally think it is o!

So on point, twin bro. Now for sitting back and figuring out how to miss the points you have made: yeah, you're right, bro, that's what these unbelievable guys do it.

Lol, it is an ability that amazes me time and time again

Mr anony:
Actually the cable won't shock you until after you have placed your foot on it, you won't die in a fight until after you enter the fight etc etc

you are tryig to say things i never said. . .I said stepping. . .Stepping on it will get you electricuted. . .Fighting is a processes you get beaten and hurt in the process of fighting, same with war, you get killed while you are at it not after you have finished fighting the war etc etc. . .

Actually, I was not talking about crime, I was talking about good and evil. A society can choose to legalize an evil deed and everyone will get away with it. Please don't confuse legality and morality. You haven't provided anything that is enough to convince me that most people suffer the consequence of their evil deeds while alive.

Good and evil are always determined by the society, example gay marriage is legal here but illegal in some other societies. . .The fear of facing the penalty is what stops many people from doing crime. . .

You missed the point of the question which is: where does your sense that things ought to be fair come from? Why is life supposed to be fair?
Surely you know that the fact that some people are healthy and some sick is not proof that they are all supposed to be healthy.

From the society in live in. The society has told me that we are all supposed to have equal chance when we take a go at things. . .Why are some people supposed to be sick and suffer while others supposed to be healthy and happy?. . .Why do we take care of the sick and weak?. . .is it because of life after death?. . .What has life after death got to do with caring for the sick?. . .The society I live in has told me that this life I have is very precious and as such I need to preseve it and enjoy it.

This is a red herring constructed to derail the argument. My argument is simple: If there is no life after death, why shouldn't I live my life exactly as I like since in the end we all die?

How does life after death stop you from enjoying your life here and living the way you want?. . .You can live your life the way you want, but knowing that you are bound to be accountable to family, friends and society, you must also live your life in such a way to aviod conflict with other members of the society. . .

I hope you know that by saying life is not fair, you are rendering null the argument that people generally face the consequences of their actions in this life. Secondly even the "system" that you are talking about still has it's many faults and besides it is people punishing other people based solely on their opinion of right and wrong

Sure, life is not fair, some get away with things. . .Right and wrong is always the opinion of others. . .If you have any right and wrong that is not the opinion of other humans then please point to it. . .

And why shouldn't I be selfish here. The people you are asking me to help were'nt born with me neither will they die with me. I was born alone and I will die ALONE. Now tell me exactly why I have to live for the benefit of others.

I told you before, if you help people they will help you back, that is enough reason to help people. . .

Why should I hope someone will help me when I can just as easily rob him and still have friends who will love me for what they expect to get from me?

If you go about robbing people they will also rob you or kill you in the process. . .If they don't rob you they will your from your family or kill some one from your family since you share your loot with them. . .That is enough reason for you not to go about stealing from people. . .You won't want any body to steal from you or any one that is yours. . .

What's the worst the land can do if not to kill me. I can even work my way to the top make the laws so that the land is now accountable to me and then proceed to killing millions of people. In the end, the worst thing that will happen is that I will die. If I am lucky, I might just die in my sleep on my golden bed at the ripe old age of 90.

Not every body can work to his/her way to the top and it is not every body that can be at the top at once and change laws. . .There is a great chance that you will be killed along the way. . .many dictators have been killed and many will be killed. . .Some get lucky and die at a ripe age others die as a result of their actions on the people. . .

The bottomline here is that if there is no afterlife, there is no real justice.

You have failed to show how afterlife leads to any sort of justice. . .A justice system that is based solely on belief is no real justice. . .According to your after life hypothesis, Bill Gates who owns the biggest charity in the world, and who has done so much(More than any man I can think of) to help humanity at all levels will suffer in hell for all enternity because he does not believe in some stories written by unknown authours many years ago, soties that have no evidence at all, and some one like Osama bin laden will be in paradise sleeping with countless virgins because he accepted the right revelation or a serial killer that killed over 50 people and raped them that accepts Jesus at the age of 76 and died at the age of 78 will go to heaven. . . .The religious hypothesis after life and the justice it porferrs is very silly and ridiculous, a form of justice that is based on belief first before deeds is very silly. . .You beible begins by saying that he who does ot believe is condemmed already. . .What kind of nonsense is this?. .

You are demanding that I live my life according to your idea of morality

Where and when did i say that?. . .

mazaje:

Same can be said of your bible prophets. . .After killing uncountable number of people including babies, raping their women and babies, looting and stealing from them, enslaving them, we are told that people like Moses, Joshua etc are in heaven enjoying for their evil deeds just because they happen to belong to a race that claim they are god's chosen. . .Inetresting how these believers do it. . .

Abeg shift! You tink say na just to type? If I took you on on the above now, you'd start yarning nonsense.

For instance, what made any of the actions you attributed to these people evil? Your hurt feelings? Make we hear word bo!

Mr anony:
Lol, it is an ability that amazes me time and time again

Yeah, it's got the capacity to astound you even when you think you've read it all. But for me, it does get old pretty quick sha.

Ihedinobi:

Abeg shift! You tink say na just to type? If I took you on on the above now, you'd start yarning nonsense.

For instance, what made any of the actions you attributed to these people evil? Your hurt feelings? Make we hear word bo!

Nope, at least our morality has evolved so much now that we consider killing people for woshiping other gods an evil thing . ..We conside enslaving people an evil thing in most parts of the world . . . .If Moses were alive today and did most of what the bible says he did, he will be some where chilling in the inte rnational court of justice and be tried for war crimes . . . Killing people because god told your to do so is evil in the present society we live it. . .

Ihedinobi:

Abeg shift! You tink say na just to type? If I took you on on the above now, you'd start yarning nonsense.

For instance, what made any of the actions you attributed to these people evil? Your hurt feelings? Make we hear word bo!

did an organism with human hormones say this or is this poster a rabid cannibalist?

mazaje:

Why must EVERYTHING about religion ad its claims be invisible, undetected, unknowable?. . .Isn't that a fraud?. . .Ask them about god, they will tell you he is invisible and doesn't want to show himself. . .Why would a being that is alleged to be all powerful, a being who WANTS to save humans and be in a personal relationship with them be invisible and undetected and invisible? You get many different incoherent gibberish answers from the proponents of the god hypothesis. . .Why is satan invisible like god since believers already believe he exist? all you get is anothe incoherent gibberish. . .Why can we only know something after we die?. . .All you get is another incoherrent gibberish. . .Religion is a fraud. . .It just keeps selling what is never there. . .

Read through the quote above and sincerely tell me it's not incoherent gibberish...if you are looking for a thread to let out your sentiments please open one and let it all out...

When you are done with your outburst, we go back to what the thread is really about...

mazaje:
I am asking you simple questions and you are replying me with this?. . .

Garbage in, garbage out pappy...you ask a silly question, you get a silly answer...

mazaje:
You are making a case for heaven and insisting that i exist as such I am asking you questions about it. . .

Now I ask if you know what this thread is about? It is not about me making a case for heaven and I don't think I have attempted to make one, safe for some questions asked,...

The thread is about you telling us what is after death and defending your position...at the moment you have only succeeded in making claims which you are yet to substantiate...

mazaje:
Will a 4 years old child that died remain a child forever in heaven?. . .

Now here is the very silly question...let me show you how silly your question is:

Akpos: Ekaite, how did you come into this world...

Ekaite: My dad had sexx with my mum and I was the result...

Akpos: Shut up, how do you know that your dad and mum do that kind of thing...

Ekaite: Because I am here...

Akpos: I refuse to believe...

Ekaite: Why na but the evidence is there...

Akpos: If you want me to believe you need to tell me how your dad does it with your mum...the style they did..the position your mum enjoys etc...


Do you get where I am heading with this Mazaje? It is impracticable for one to tell you everything about some things even though those things exist...

There are things a renouned brain surgeon cannot tell you about the brain even though the brain exist...ask good questions Mazaje and you would get good answers...

mazaje:
Heaven is not your idea or conception, it is the idea, conception and making of another person which you have bought into through indoctrination. . .You have never been to heaven all you have to lay hold to is the ideas and conception of others. . .You have been indoctrinated by friend. . .

I have asked you to focus on things you know about...if you have been indoctrinated then good for you...

mazaje:
I have shown you that heaven is just an idea like reincanation. . .

Do you want me to school you on what it means to "show" something?

I see nothing in xtians but people who claim to be moral supporting and siding with genocides and infanticides of the maximum magnitude known to man.

The bible has made people see nothing wrong with murder. It has been said that its religious wars that will end this world, I have no doubt.

mazaje:

Nope, at least our morality has evolved so much now that we consider killing people for woshiping other gods an evil thing . ..We conside enslaving people an evil thing in most parts of the world . . . .If Moses were alive today and did most of what the bible says he did, he will be some where chilling in the inte rnational court of justice and be tried for war crimes . . . Killing people because god told your to do so is evil in the present society we live it. . .

Just like the way obama should be in prison abi??............

What about killing when your nation tells you to??.......

striktlymi:

Read through the quote above and sincerely tell me it's not incoherent gibberish...if you are looking for a thread to let out your sentiments please open one and let it all out...

When you are done with your outburst, we go back to what the thread is really about...

LOL! . . .Why is it that everything about religion involves invisible things and imaginary concepts?. . . .That is a legitimate question. . .

Now I ask if you know what this thread is about? It is not about me making a case for heaven and I don't think I have attempted to make one, safe for some questions asked,...

The thread is about you telling us what is after death and defending your position...at the moment you have only succeeded in making claims which you are yet to substantiate...

I must not be able to show that heaven does not exist, it is something that is impossible, just as you can not show evidence that people do not reincarnate. You can not even show that an islamic suicide bomber is not presently in heaving flying around and mating with heavily virgin while drinking from riversa of wine . . .You can not show that Osama bin Laden is not there at the moment even if I insist he is. . .I can show you how the idea came about, I can show you how the afterlife idea came about. . .From your own bible. In the OT there was nothing like hell. . .Even some of the writers of the bible like the writer of ecclesiastes doesa not believe in life after death. . .Live die and thats all, according to him. . .The idea of hell slowly evolved even within the bible. . .

Hevean remains and idea , just like reincarnation . . .It has nothing to do with reality. . .

Now here is the very silly question...let me show you how silly your question is:

Akpos: Ekaite, how did you come into this world...

Ekaite: My dad had sexx with my mum and I was the result...

Akpos: Shut up, how do you know that your dad and mum do that kind of thing...

Ekaite: Because I am here...

Akpos: I refuse to believe...

Ekaite: Why na but the evidence is there...

Akpos: If you want me to believe you need to tell me how your dad does it with your mum...the style they did..the position your mum enjoys etc...


Do you get where I am heading with this Mazaje? It is impracticable for one to tell you everything about some things even though those things exist...

There are things a renouned brain surgeon cannot tell you about the brain even though the brain exist...ask good questions Mazaje and you would get good answers...

Heaven remains and idea like reincarnation . . . .

I have asked you to focus on things you know about...if you have been indoctrinated then good for you...

Did you just grow up with the belief about heaven or did some one tell you based on the ideas another person conceieved?. . .

Do you want me to school you on what it means to "show" something?

Again heaven or life agter death is just an idea like reincarnation which so many other people believe in. . .