₦airaland Forum

^^^ Ok, can we have a rigorous go at the issue of the divinity of christ verse by verse?

I will have to open a special thread for that, one, as I want it to be a special academic case, one verse at a time, on everything that scripture says on the matter?

Deep Sight: ^^^ Ok, can we have a rigorous go at the issue of the divinity of christ verse by verse?

I will have to open a special thread for that, one, as I want it to be a special academic case, one verse at a time, on everything that scripture says on the matter?

Yep. Let us do that

Mr anony: Yep. Let us do that

Ok, I will do so and the inform you when done.

Deep Sight: Ok, I will do so and the inform you when done.

Waiting patiently for the thread as well....

Deep Sight: I REJECT AND ABANDON YOUR REQUEST THAT NON BIBLE BELIEVERS SHOULD NOT COMMENT!

Now -

Jesus says -

https://www.nairaland.com/344297/dr-david-sheds-some-light#4817959

Remember your "common denominator" rule; I agree with it: You should too.

Deep Sight: He claims to be the first and last, obviously within creation - In fact, the the very terms "first and last" connote something that is finite, so that hammers you. God is infinite, uncreated, timeless and eternal, and would this neither be first nor last.

[color=#a9b2a1]Even the quran ascribes these to Jesus (Isa) and yet says that he certainly is not God!

This would tie up with the whole idea of Jesus being the monogenes - "only begotten" - of God, and as such, the firstborn of creation. That is the greek word used to describe Jesus in the NT - "monogenes".

This is exactly the true and correct answer to your "first and last, alpha and omega" business. God could not be any of these because he is eternal; this only clearly shows that Jesus is a creation and exists within creation.

And no, I play no trick on you, can you tell me how else Mk 10.18 is to be read? The man was very clear - "Why callest thou me good, only Gd is Good." How n earth do you want to force a strange meaning into this clear rebuke?

And he said same several times, just to show that your forced reading is wrong. He said the Father is greater than I. He said he has a God and Father. He said that Gd is his God and Father in the same way as God is ours. He prayed to God. He despaired about the decision of God both in Gethsemane and on the Cross. The thing is glaring, and on this issue, you can only resort to continuously side-stepping the simple questions, just as you have side-stepped the issue of the dichotomy of wills by making a non-existent distinction between a "person" and a "being".

I won't press you on this though, cos I know you are as locked-in and dogmatic against the obvious on this matter, as the atheists are on the existence of God.

Yes indeed, I blackmail you not sir: you do in fact by your words proclaim Jesus to be a sophisticated and dubious liar. [/color]

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

...the beginning and ending
The greek word for "ending" in that verse is telos meaning:

(to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); -Strong

What the above means is Jesus Christ is the one who created time and the one who is going to end it.

As for Alpha and Omega: Jesus Christ is in control of history - the beginning and end of ages, eras, rise and fall of world empires.

As for ...which is, and which was, and which is to come... : That is one long word for YaHWeH meaning: I am Eternity.

...And by the way, Jesus did not claim to be "first and last" as DeepSight erroneously noted; but "the first and the last". Even within a "finite" context; you can only be deity or a madman to make that claim.

The Trinitarians can shout, Jesus is Almighty GOD for all eternity and until they are blue in the face, fact remains he is not and their position is false. Logic is not their friend this time around.

^ explain love with logic.

frosbel: The Trinitarians can shout, Jesus is Almighty GOD for all eternity and until they are blue in the face, fact remains he is not and their position is false. Logic is not their friend this time around.

Hahahaha, your bible disagrees with you on this one sir.

SNCOQ3: ^ explain love with logic.

NICE! POWERFUL QUESTION. I was going to ask DeepSight this question at some point but the conversation did not come around to it. A monadic God simply cannot be a God of Love.

Mr anony: Hahahaha, your bible disagrees with you on this one sir.

You meant to say , anony's bible disagrees with frosbel

My bible is 100% aligned with ONE God , not 3-gods which the Muslims rightly refer to as the Polytheism.

frosbel: You meant to say , anony's bible disagrees with frosbel

My bible is 100% aligned with ONE God , not 3-gods which the Muslims rightly refer to as the Polytheism.

Lol, So Revelations 1:8 is not in your bible? What about Revelations 2:8? Jesus Christ is busy claiming to be God all over your bible. Closing your eyes and ears does not save you.

Mr anony: Lol, So Revelations 1:8 is not in your bible? What about Revelations 2:8? Jesus Christ is busy claiming to be God all over your bible. Closing your eyes and ears does not save you.

How about Revelation 1:1 , God gave Jesus a revelation, does this now mean God gave God a revelation.

frosbel: How about Revelation 1:1 , God gave Jesus a revelation, does this now mean God gave God a revelation.

In the same way God gave glory to God in Hebrews 1:8-12

Mr anony: In the same way God gave glory to God in Hebrews 1:8-12

so God speaking to himself again , a sort of pretend child's play.

SMH.

frosbel: so God speaking to himself again , a sort of pretend child's play.

SMH.

Is that what your bible teaches you? Or does your bible tell you the Father speaks to the Son and vice versa referring to each other as God?

Mr anony: Is that what your bible teaches you? Or does your bible tell you the Father speaks to the Son and vice versa referring to each other as God?

Stop confusing yourself !!

frosbel: Stop confusing yourself !!

Start reading your bible

frosbel: How about Revelation 1:1 , God gave Jesus a revelation, does this now mean God gave God a revelation.

I trust you to ignore other parts of the scripture and hold unto one verse

shdemidemi: I trust you to ignore other parts of the scripture and hold unto one verse

You are yet to show us ONE verse in the bible that explicitly confirms that GOD is 3 . There is no biblical support for your Polytheism.

frosbel: You are yet to show us ONE verse in the bible that explicitly confirms that GOD is 3 . There is no biblical support for your Polytheism.

It is so sad that all you do these days is avoid and deep study of scripture while throwing strawmen all over the place. Frosbel let us have a bible study: What do you say to the verse presented where Christ is clearly called God?

Mr anony: NICE! POWERFUL QUESTION. I was going to ask DeepSight this question at some point but the conversation did not come around to it. A monadic God simply cannot be a God of Love.

I believe a monadic God loving himself will self-destruct. The idea of Family is a projection of the trinity.

SNCOQ3: I believe a monadic God loving himself will self-destruct. The idea of Family is a projection of the trinity.

That's not even the issue. The problem with people who clamour for a monadic God is that they fail to see that once you do that, God can no longer be omniscient because it will mean that at the time before God created, God did not have any relationship with any person therefore whatever relationship God now has with other persons, He would have to learn it.

Boomark:
That is what am trying to get.
And stop dodging the
question. Cos it is very obvious
you seems not to know what
to say.
So are you saying that
1 the Father as a person is not
God
2 Jesus as a person is not God
3 the Holy spirit as a person is
not God.
Like you said, the 3 persons
are not 3 Gods. Don't tell me
am not understanding it or run
away. Just Answer me so i can
get it.

Mr anony: Read the OP again. I made myself quite clear there

Hahaha. I don set question for jamb before in 1875. Even from the definition of trinity, i can set questions that will make to redefine trinity after each question. May be you need to study more before you attempt the questions...no problems.

Boomark: Hahaha. I don set question for jamb before in 1875. Even from the definition of trinity, i can set questions that will make to redefine trinity after each question. May be you need to study more before you attempt the questions...no problems.

SMH. Did you read the op at all?

Mr anony: That's not even the issue. The problem with people who clamour for a monadic God is that they fail to see that once you do that, God can no longer be omniscient because it will mean that at the time before God created, God did not have any relationship with any person therefore whatever relationship God now has with other persons, He would have to learn it.

He would have been infinitely narccisistic (self-destruct) to create a being with freewill.

Mr anony: It is so sad that all you do these days is avoid and deep study of scripture while throwing strawmen all over the place. Frosbel let us have a bible study: What do you say to the verse presented where Christ is clearly called God?

Two things :

1. Jesus Christ is a god not GOD
2. You are yet to show us where in the bible mention is made explicitly referring to 3 gods =1 , until you can do that your position remains elusive.

frosbel: Two things :

1. Jesus Christ is a god not GOD
2. You are yet to show us where in the bible mention is made explicitly referring to 3 gods =1 , until you can do that your position remains elusive.

1. Lol so Jesus is another god who who answers prayer and receives worship from human beings and angels? I hope you are realizing that it is you who is going into polytheism

2. That condition is not necessary as long as I can show and have shown the bible referring to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as God.

@ Anony,
I agree with your profound connection between the Trinity, God's perfect love for us and omniscience.

[quote author=Mr anony]1. Lol so Jesus is another god who who answers prayer and receives worship from human beings and angels? I hope you are realizing that it is you who is going into polytheism

- Who asked his angels to pay obeisance to Jesus Christ and who exalted Jesus.

- In Rev 1:1 - Why did Jesus get a revelation from GOD

- Why is God the head of Christ in 1 Corinthians 11:3

2. That condition is not necessary as long as I can show and have shown the bible referring to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost as God.

Now you have moved the goal post , because you know that it is impossible to provide this imaginary evidence, it simply is not there , and has been derived from the formulation of an extra biblical concept by Greek pagan philosophers parading as church fathers over a 300 year period.

You have to wonder why God made such an easy concept so mystifying to his children, which is why when they attempt to explain it they end up confusing themselves and others.


Trinity has been debunked, stop deceiving yourself.

I talk to people out of this forum including family and they are beginning to easily see through the layers of deception used to construct and defend this pagan polytheistic belief.

You my friend believe in a 3 god god, I believe in one God and follow Jesus in saying :

"Jesus replied, "The most important commandment is this: 'Listen, O Israel! The LORD our God is the one and only LORD." - Mark 12:29

frosbel: Two things :

1. Jesus Christ is a god not GOD
2. You are yet to show us where in the bible mention is made explicitly referring to 3 gods =1 , until you can do that your position remains elusive.

Your God&god idea is polytheism.

-edit-
You are yet to show us a mathematical expression of love, until you can do that without employing the tool of abstractions, simplification, analogies, metaphors...you're in no position to question our use of tritheism( 3Ps in 1G, 1G in 3Ps) as an abstraction for the Trinity. Maybe...just maybe logic is overated afterall.