truthislight:

what and who defines what the Trinity Is then, since it is that the word is not found in the bible and the adherents are giving us divers definitions of what trinity is.

We have more than two explanations of trinity flying around in this forum.

Why should your own version be the right one ?

frosbel:

3 Persons = 1 God

3 Persons each with a will, intellect and 'emotion' is one Person God with one will, intellect and 'emotion'

Mr anony:
Erhm DeepSight, Jesus didn't say that. Go and read your bible again. The verse you seek is Mark 10:18

Mr anony:
There fixed it for you.

Mr anony:
Interesting. Now this is all I will ask you to do. Imagine I said these as a child of God: Tell me which of the following statements amounts to blasphemy.

1. The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is God, living in me, who is doing his work.
2. Believe me when I say that I am in God and God is in me
3. whoever believes in ME will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to God
4. And I will do whatever you ask in MY NAME, so that God may be glorified in ME
5. You may ask ME for anything in MY NAME, and I will do it.

If you are honest, you probably won't have a problem with statement 1 & 2, You may start getting concerned at statement 3. And you will definitely stone me for blasphemy by statement 4 & 5. Only God has the power to make those statements. It is either Christ is indeed God or He is the worst blasphemer that ever lived. He doesn't leave you any other option.

Mr anony:

5. You may ask ME for anything in MY NAME, and I will do it.

Mr Anony: Only God has the power to make those statements.

Deep Sight:


Verbatim, it reads - "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God."

If you read this any strange way, such as saying that he was God, since he was called good, or such as saying that it does not question the act of calling him good, since he attributes goodness only to God, then you will essentially be calling Jesus a sophist, con-artist and deceiver with words.

Deep Sight:

Absolutely not: Gd is anyhow too transcendent to interact directly with humanity and works through lesser created beings in many forms, who would of course have various powers.

truthislight:

Very funny.

See:

"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. " (Matthew 6:9).




^
that is why we end prayer "in Jesus name", Amen.

Jesus is the mediator, you go to the father via Jesus name.

You of all person should know this.

(trinity has a way of blocking peoples perception)

frosbel:

no you didn't , you confused the hell out of me

Mr anony:
I am saying that the 3 persons are 1 God NOT "Gods". Try to get it right first.

truthislight:

Absurdity!

How can three (3) "persons" be one God ?

This thing some times wants to make me to shade tears. Smh.

Mr anony:
Lololol, interesting how in order not to expressly admit that you read your own interpretation into the verse, you try to throw a bit of mud out there in the hope that I'll try to "protect" Jesus' reputation.
Basically all you've really done is play the trick of "if you don't agree with me you are calling Jesus a liar. You had better agree with me if you want to keep Him honest."

The verse still remains exactly what it is. Jesus never denied His deity rather He affirmed it.

Here's a verse for you to ponder.

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." - Revelations 22:12-16

Till tomorrow, i still wonder how any Christian can read the above and still say that Jesus Christ never claimed to be God.

Mr anony:
Honestly, I don't really know what it is you are talking about. If you want a definition of Trinity, it is right there in the OP

Mr anony:
Lololol, interesting how in order not to expressly admit that you read your own interpretation into the verse, you try to throw a bit of mud out there in the hope that I'll try to "protect" Jesus' reputation.
Basically all you've really done is play the trick of "if you don't agree with me you are calling Jesus a liar. You had better agree with me if you want to keep Him honest."

The verse still remains exactly what it is. Jesus never denied His deity rather He affirmed it.

Here's a verse for you to ponder.

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." - Revelations 22:12-16

Till tomorrow, i still wonder how any Christian can read the above and still say that Jesus Christ never claimed to be God.

From_Guiriga:

I'm not a Christian so I cannot speak for them.
As a African, Jesus said: "...For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak..." John 12:49

Mr anony:
Interesting. Now this is all I will ask you to do. Imagine I said these as a child of God: Tell me which of the following statements amounts to blasphemy.

1. The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is God, living in me, who is doing his work.
2. Believe me when I say that I am in God and God is in me
3. whoever believes in ME will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to God
4. And I will do whatever you ask in MY NAME, so that God may be glorified in ME
5. You may ask ME for anything in MY NAME, and I will do it.

If you are honest, you probably won't have a problem with statement 1 & 2, You may start getting concerned at statement 3. And you will definitely stone me for blasphemy by statement 4 & 5. Only God has the power to make those statements. It is either Christ is indeed God or He is the worst blasphemer that ever lived. He doesn't leave you any other option.

Mr anony:
I would have thought that by explaining the fact that God is indeed 3 persons, the point becomes clear that there are 3 different wills at play. However, the meaning of Trinity is that these 3 wills are eternally unified. I don't know what else you want.

Mr anony:
Lololol, interesting how in order not to expressly admit that you read your own interpretation into the verse, you try to throw a bit of mud out there in the hope that I'll try to "protect" Jesus' reputation.
Basically all you've really done is play the trick of "if you don't agree with me you are calling Jesus a liar. You had better agree with me if you want to keep Him honest."

The verse still remains exactly what it is. Jesus never denied His deity rather He affirmed it.

Here's a verse for you to ponder.

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
"I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star." - Revelations 22:12-16

Till tomorrow, i still wonder how any Christian can read the above and still say that Jesus Christ never claimed to be God.

Mr anony:
I am saying that the 3 persons are 1 God NOT "Gods". Try to get it right first.

Bidam: The revelation of Jesus is actually progressive. What do you understand when Paul said that the manifold, variegated, multi-faceted, many-sided, multi-dimensional wisdom of God, which has been hidden in Christ, is now being revealed by the church, to principalities and powers in heavenly places.

God’s plan is to reveal hidden knowledge and wisdom, that has been reserved for these last days, to the church.Paul really captured the deity of Christ more than the apostles that had been with Jesus.

From_Guiriga:

I disagree. The word of the Father must be eternal. Good yesterday, today and forever. Other wise The Father must continue to change/add/modify his word to suit the times/people. Imagine that.

Tell me this: Do you believe Paul "secretly" knew about the trinity but did not teach it?
Do you believe Paul "secretly" knew/thought Jesus was the Father?

Answer those two for me brother.

Thanks in advance.

Bidam: It's not about paul but about Jesus Christ who is the full expression of God's glory and manifestation on the Earth. The whole purpose of God is for His GLORY TO BLANKET THE EARTH AS THE WATERS COVER THE SEA. IT IS JUST A MATTER OF TIME. Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant cos it's gonna happen in these last days.

truthislight:

Is the one in the op the only one there is ?

If there are other variance, whose should we take to be the right one ?

Dont forget, you had said the variant that frosbel posted on this thread is not the right one.

truthislight:

The almighty ^ is not of the "root of david".
The almighty is not the "morning star"


You know that place is talking about two persons, the first person is Yahweh, the father then Jesus christ.

see:


"And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. " (Revelation 22:6-13).
..........:..........
That ^ is talking about Yahweh that sends His angel.

After Yahweh sends his Angel, then Jesus sends his angel in subsequent vers 16 below:

"I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:16-17).
..................

The almighty is not of the root of David.

Yahweh is not a morning star.

Boomark:

And those doing greater works than Jesus are indeed God or equal to God? Smh. Don't you also know the we too are in God? Does that make Him my equal? Smh!!!

It is not wrong to ask Jesus any thing. "Jesus, thou Son of God please heal me" and he healed them to the glory of God the Father. A way of reconciling us back to his God. Read Hebrew and Revelation to know the one that receives your prayer from the High priest.

Read Jn 16:23-28 and see who you pray to. See this "I came forth from God(how many persons?), I came from the Father(1 person), v27,28. By this we know that you came forth from God(how many persons?)," v30. Smh!!!

Boomark:

where are we going to insert the will of Jesus and that of the holy spirit in the bible? Let the church fathers decide so that Pentecostals will adopt.

Men and their doctrine. SMH!!!

Boomark:

That is what am trying to get. And stop dodging the question. Cos it is very obvious you seems not to know what to say.

So are you saying that
1 the Father as a person is not God
2 Jesus as a person is not God
3 the Holy spirit as a person is not God.
Like you said, the 3 persons are not 3 Gods. Don't tell me am not understanding it or run away. Just Answer me so i can get it.

Deep Sight:
He claims to be the first and last, obviously within creation - In fact, the the very terms "first and last" connote something that is finite, so that hammers you. God is infinite, uncreated, timeless and eternal, and would this neither be first nor last.

Even the quran ascribes these to Jesus (Isa) and yet says that he certainly is not God!

This would tie up with the whole idea of Jesus being the monogenes - "only begotten" - of God, and as such, the firstborn of creation. That is the greek word used to describe Jesus in the NT - "monogenes".

This is exactly the true and correct answer to your "first and last, alpha and omega" business. God could not be any of these because he is eternal; this only clearly shows that Jesus is a creation and exists within creation.

And no, I play no trick on you, can you tell me how else Mk 10.18 is to be read? The man was very clear - "Why callest thou me good, only Gd is Good." How n earth do you want to force a strange meaning into this clear rebuke?

And he said same several times, just to show that your forced reading is wrong. He said the Father is greater than I. He said he has a God and Father. He said that Gd is his God and Father in the same way as God is ours. He prayed to God. He despaired about the decision of God both in Gethsemane and on the Cross. The thing is glaring, and on this issue, you can only resort to continuously side-stepping the simple questions, just as you have side-stepped the issue of the dichotomy of wills by making a non-existent distinction between a "person" and a "being".

I won't press you on this though, cos I know you are as locked-in and dogmatic against the obvious on this matter, as the atheists are on the existence of God.

Yes indeed, I blackmail you not sir: you do in fact by your words proclaim Jesus to be a sophisticated and dubious liar.