frosbel:

Which is why this article was raised, to discuss .

Let's have your first scripture.

I did that before....

Christ is the physical image of the father. Col 1:15

The scripture says in Acts 7:1-2

“Then said the high priest, Are these things so? (And Stephen answers.) 2. Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory (What’s the word?) appeared unto our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran.”

Now the word appeared there is the Greek word optomahei, from which we get optometry. And it literally is translated—visibly seen.

Also, in Genesis 17:1

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (Now what’s the word?) appeared (Visibly. Physically. In human form. Temporarily.) unto Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; (Now, the Hebrew word there is El Shaddai, the Almighty.) walk before me, and be thou perfect.” In other words, be upright and be a mature man of faith.

When the invisible God appeared, in what form did you think He did appear? (remember his visible image is Christ)

shdemidemi:
I did that before....

Christ is the physical image of the father. Col 1:15

The scripture says in Acts 7:1-2

“Then said the high priest, Are these things so? (And Stephen answers.) 2. Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory (What’s the word?) appeared unto our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran.”

Now the word appeared there is the Greek word optomahei, from which we get optometry. And it literally is translated—visibly seen.

Also, in Genesis 17:1

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (Now what’s the word?) appeared (Visibly. Physically. In human form. Temporarily.) unto Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; (Now, the Hebrew word there is El Shaddai, the Almighty.) walk before me, and be thou perfect.” In other words, be upright and be a mature man of faith.

When the invisible God appeared, in what form did you think He did appear? (remember his visible image is Christ)

okay , will address this late evening if you do not mind.

thanks.

frosbel:

okay , will address this late evening if you do not mind.

thanks.

No P...take your time bro.

Mr anony:
Nah, frosbel isn't an atheist he's only a heretic

stop d name calling please.....talk scripture or stay out of the conversation

honeychild:
stop d name calling please.....talk scripture or stay out of the conversation

You are talking as if you don't know that frosbel is a heretic.

Mr anony:
You are talking as if you don't know that frosbel is a heretic.

We all know what the catholic church and Calvin who you support did to 'Hereticks'.

honeychild:
stop d name calling please.....talk scripture or stay out of the conversation

Thanks sister , unfortunately there are people here who we have to accommodate , not all of us are level headed.

@ frosbel

I am still waiting for your response

frosbel:


We all know what the catholic church and Calvin who you support did to 'Hereticks'.

erhm...I'm neither catholic nor calvinist.

Mr anony:
erhm...I'm neither catholic nor calvinist.

Truth is , throughout history thousands of heretics were killed , tortured and exiled by the 'authentic' religion of the day ,which by some magical coincidence propagated many of the creeds and dogmas you so fanatically hold on to.

Frosbel how about these

John 8:56-58 :-Your father Abraham looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad.
The people said: you aren't even fifty years old. How.can you say you have seen Abraham? Jesus said: I tell you the truth: Before Abraham was even born, I am ( footnote says: or before Abraham was even born, I have always been alive) -New Living Translation

Will respond to these questions I promise tomorrow , has been a very busy day and I want to take my time to carefully respond point by point.

thanks.

frosbel:

Truth is , throughout history thousands of heretics were killed , tortured and exiled by the 'authentic' religion of the day , which by some magical coincidence propagated many of the creeds and dogmas , you so fanatically hold on to.

This doesn't change the fact that you've been spewing heresy left, right and center.

Mr anony: This doesn't change the fact that you've been spewing heresy left, right and center.

what do you know about truth ? I think not a lot , going by the content of most of your articles.

frosbel:

what do you know about truth ? I think not a lot , going by the content of most of your articles.

Lololol, I won't grace this with a reply.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to defend/explain your "truth". Why do yo think Christ did not exist before he was physically born?

I'll bet that as usual, you will try to evade the question again even though the question addresses precisely what your thread is supposed to be about.

Do you know that jesus has existed even before all creations and God the father created the man with thd help of the son.when the father said (let us) make man in our own image.know ye also that jesus is a spirit personality that existed in heaven. Even peter testified it that he is the true son of GOD.

Another scripture to consider when discussing the pre-existence of Jesus is
Phil 2v5-8 "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross".KJV



The above scripture is a pointer to the fact that Jesus pre-exist his earthly birth, he only took the form of man when he was to be born as a man.

Mr anony:
Lololol, I won't grace this with a reply.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to defend/explain your "truth". Why do yo think Christ did not exist before he was physically born?

I'll bet that as usual, you will try to evade the question again even though the question addresses precisely what your thread is supposed to be about.

I think when it comes to evading the truth, ALL will agree that this is your trademark.

Besides, I will not indulge your ego with a response, I think this article suffices for a discussion with other brethren.

Thanks.

shdemidemi:
I did that before....

Christ is the physical image of the father. Col 1:15

The Image of something is not that thing but a reflection of that thing.

I truly am not sure why you are threading a web of confusion around such a simple biblical truth.

Jesus Christ is the exact representation of the Father , just like we have the saying ' like father like son ' , only in the case of JESUS because he was 100% pleasing to the father , he was filled with the spirit without measure and was able to present the father as he is.

In Heb 1:3 we have this point further buttressed :

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven"

So Jesus is not GOD , but the image of GOD, his exact representation of character , intent and will.

The scripture says in Acts 7:1-2

“Then said the high priest, Are these things so? (And Stephen answers.) 2. Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory (What’s the word?) appeared unto our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran.”

Now the word appeared there is the Greek word optomahei, from which we get optometry. And it literally is translated—visibly seen.

We know that GOD did not appear to Abraham physically because the bible says NO MAN HAS SEE GOD , so it is either an angel of the Lord or through a vision in which GOD spoke with him.

"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."- John 1:18

Also, in Genesis 17:1

“And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD (Now what’s the word?) appeared (Visibly. Physically. In human form. Temporarily.) unto Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; (Now, the Hebrew word there is El Shaddai, the Almighty.) walk before me, and be thou perfect.” In other words, be upright and be a mature man of faith.

When the invisible God appeared, in what form did you think He did appear? (remember his visible image is Christ)

GOD cannot appear physically as MAN, because the bible says no man has seen GOD and he is also not a MAN, it was angels of the Lord who came in the name of the Lord temporarily appearing as MEN to Abraham.

But I am not sure what your point is , because these verses do not in anyway support a preexistence of Jesus.

if I wasn't a Trinitarian... this alone will make me believe in the trinity. I wonder how ijawkid and other frosbel teams against Trinitarians will feel about this.


Philippians 2:5-11

New International Version (NIV)


5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:


6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

I am angry at my self debating with you before. you ignore every thing about the bible. and not a single reason why Jesus did not exist before he was born is given.

honestly I don't see any reason for one to continue on this thread talking about it.
because Jesus says father Glorify me with the Glory I had with you before the world begin. please the bible is not a comic you hear.

Frosbel is so confused. hahaha there is no point wasting time here.

The bottom line is what is the foundation of our faith, is it that Jesus preexisted or that he is GOD ? None of the above,

In fact the foundation of our faith is that Jesus Christ is the Messiah , the Christ and the Son of GOD sent by the Father for the salvation of mankind.

This is the foundation of our faith.

It's funny how in the 21st century we think we know better that those apostles who walked very closely with JESUS, in fact let's hear what a few of them have to say :


15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” - Matthew 16:13-20

benalvino: Frosbel is so confused. hahaha there is no point wasting time here.

noise making does not mean you have made a point.

frosbel: The bottom line is what is the foundation of our faith, is it that Jesus preexisted or that he is GOD ? None of the above,

In fact the foundation of our faith is that Jesus Christ is the Messiah , the Christ and the Son of GOD sent by the Father for the salvation of mankind.

This is the foundation of our faith.

It's funny how in the 21st century we think we know better that those apostles who walked very closely with JESUS, in fact let's hear what a few of them have to say :


15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” - Matthew 16:13-20

[size=18pt]are you talking about faith or if jesus exist before he was born? you see how confused you are? starting a thread you cant even bring out good point of out your argument.[/size]

frosbel:

noise making does not mean you have made a point.

[size=18pt]My point is you are confused. anyone who agrees with me should like this lets show him how confused he is[/size]

honeychild: Frosbel how about these

John 8:56-58 :-Your father Abraham looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad.
The people said: you aren't even fifty years old. How.can you say you have seen Abraham? Jesus said: I tell you the truth: Before Abraham was even born, I am ( footnote says: or before Abraham was even born, I have always been alive) -New Living Translation

2 ways to look at this :

1. Father GOD speaking through Jesus and Jesus presenting his position as the plan and pupose of GOD , i.e the Word, even before Abraham was born.

"For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken." - John 12:49


2. In the Hebrew language , 'to be before' means to be greater than in preeminence or position , as the bible says :

And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

benalvino:

[size=18pt]My point is you are confused. anyone who agrees with me should like this lets show him how confused he is[/size]

I am ready to be very unpopular because of the Truth.

My Questions for the house, now that I have answered yours are :

1. Why did Jesus have to preexist
2. If he did not preexist how does this affect our faith
3. Is salvation nullified if we take the position that Jesus did not preexist.

Please, no subjective feelings and emotional rants, I want intelligent reasoning out of the scriptures , with your points laid out concisely and I will respond in kind.

Thank You.

frosbel: My Questions for the house, now that I have answered yours are :

1. Why did Jesus have to preexist
2. If he did not preexist how does this affect our faith
3. Is salvation nullified if we take the position that Jesus did not preexist.

Please, no subjective feelings and emotional rants, I want intelligent reasoning out of the scriptures , with your points laid out concisely and I will respond in kind.

Thank You.

[size=38pt]SMH!!!!![/size] the answer to all the question

benalvino: if I wasn't a Trinitarian... this alone will make me believe in the trinity. I wonder how ijawkid and other frosbel teams against Trinitarians will feel about this.


Philippians 2:5-11

New International Version (NIV)


5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:


6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

I am angry at my self debating with you before. you ignore every thing about the bible. and not a single reason why Jesus did not exist before he was born is given.

honestly I don't see any reason for one to continue on this thread talking about it.
because Jesus says father Glorify me with the Glory I had with you before the world begin. please the bible is not a comic you hear.

I don't see how this verse proves that 3 persons make up one GOD.....

I don't see any.......

If only this verse can make you believe in the trinity then I bet you don't even know what you believe in.......

I have told you that as long as Jesus isn't the Father the trinity remains null and void....

.......

And talking about the glory Jesus had with the Father,it was the Father who gave Jesus that glory.....

So I don't know what's special......

ijawkid:

I don't see how this verse proves that 3 persons make up one GOD.....

I don't see any.......

If only this verse can make you believe in the trinity then I bet you don't even know what you believe in.......

I have told you that as long as Jesus isn't the Father the trinity remains null and void....

.......

And talking about the glory Jesus had with the Father,it was the Father who gave Jesus that glory.....

So I don't know what's special......

We are not talking about 3nity. If you want that go to my thread where I prove the bible calls Jesus God of the world. This thread says Jesus exist only when Mary born am

benalvino:

We are not talking about 3nity. If you want that go to my thread where I prove the bible calls Jesus God of the world. This thread says Jesus exist only when Mary born am

You have proven nothing !