benalvino:

We are not talking about 3nity. If you want that go to my thread where I prove the bible calls Jesus God of the world. This thread says Jesus exist only when Mary born am

Which thread??...

The thread where you couldn't comprehend or chose not to comprehend how and why Yahweh is called the one saviour though carries out his saving acts through is representatives(sub saviours)...??....

And if I can remember satan is also the God of this world.....

frosbel:

The Image of something is not that thing but a reflection of that thing.

I truly am not sure why you are threading a web of confusion around such a simple biblical truth.

Jesus Christ is the exact representation of the Father , just like we have the saying ' like father like son ' , only in the case of JESUS because he was 100% pleasing to the father , he was filled with the spirit without measure and was able to present the father as he is.

In Heb 1:3 we have this point further buttressed :

"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven"

So Jesus is not GOD , but the image of GOD, his exact representation of character , intent and will.

You are simply saying what you are saying to back your argument, What that scripture is saying is far from what you are saying. The illustration of your father and yourself does not align with what the verse is saying. Your father is very visible if he looks into the mirror he would see an image of himself in extension you can also be said to be an image of your father ( to an extent). With the case of God, God is invisible. There is a visible image of God and that image is simply Christ.

frosbel:
We know that GOD did not appear to Abraham physically because the bible says NO MAN HAS SEE GOD , so it is either an angel of the Lord or through a vision in which GOD spoke with him.
"No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."- John 1:18
GOD cannot appear physically as MAN, because the bible says no man has seen GOD and he is also not a MAN, it was angels of the Lord who came in the name of the Lord temporarily appearing as MEN to Abraham.

First thing, never use we when you are speaking, always speak for yourself. The bible made us know when angels appeared to people in the bible, I explained what appeared mean so you don't go round saying what is not. Kindly go back and check if angel was mentioned there, remember you can't add or take out of God's word, take it as it is written.


You lack understanding of the scripture, what do you understand by this verse genesis 32

30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God [b]face to face, [/b]and my life is preserved.”

[quote author=shdemidemi]

You are simply saying what you are saying to back your argument, What that scripture is saying is far from what you are saying. The illustration of your father and yourself does not align with what the verse is saying. Your father is very visible if he looks into the mirror he would see an image of himself in extension you can also be said to be an image of your father ( to an extent). With the case of God, God is invisible. There is a visible image of God and that image is simply Christ.

I can see that simple English is a problem.

An Image of something is not that thing.

Jesus is not the Father, he is the Son, anything else is a figment of your imagination.

First thing, never use we when you are speaking, always speak for yourself. The bible made us know when angels appeared to people in the bible, I explained what appeared mean so you don't go round saying what is not. Kindly go back and check if angel was mentioned there, remember you can't add or take out of God's word, take it as it is written.

What does appear mean but appear ?

You are quite hilariously redefining the English language to support your fallacies.

You lack understanding of the scripture, what do you understand by this verse genesis 32

30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God [b]face to face, [/b]and my life is preserved.”

If He saw the Lord face to face , then kindly do tell us :

1. In what form was GOD when he saw him
2. How does this support the theory of pre-existence.

thanks.

frosbel: I can see that simple English is a problem.
An Image of something is not that thing.
Jesus is not the Father, he is the Son, anything else is a figment of your imagination.

You come across like someone that wants to prove a point without facts. I will put it this way, when you look at your mirror, what do you see?

I don't see anything too difficult in this.

frosbel: What does appear mean but appear ?
You are quite hilariously redefining the English language to support your fallacies.

Now the word appeared there is the Greek word optomahei, from which we get optometry. And it literally is translated—visibly seen.

frosbel: 1. In what form was GOD when he saw him.

No, I would not say it to you, you came up with a quote that says no one had seen God. I have given you a verse where someone saw God. The onus is on you to study cos the bible does not contradict but you lack understanding.

frosbel: 2. How does this support the theory of pre-existence..

It does support his pre-existence because if a visible image of God actually appeared to people in the old testament, it can only be Christ.

frosbel: My Questions for the house, now that I have answered yours are :

1. Why did Jesus have to preexist
2. If he did not preexist how does this affect our faith
3. Is salvation nullified if we take the position that Jesus did not preexist.

Please, no subjective feelings and emotional rants, I want intelligent reasoning out of the scriptures , with your points laid out concisely and I will respond in kind.

Thank You.

Jesus pre-existed because he said so. When God said 'let us create man' he was talking to Jesus (in his pre-human state).

Our salvation is based on the whole body of truth revealed in the Bible. Why should I take a stand contrary to what the Bible says?

On this topic, we will have to agree to disagree, Frosbel. I'm outta here.

honeychild:

Jesus pre-existed because he said so. When God said 'let us create man' he was talking to Jesus (in his pre-human state).

Our salvation is based on the whole body of truth revealed in the Bible. Why should I take a stand contrary to what the Bible says?

On this topic, we will have to agree to disagree, Frosbel. I'm outta here.

But how do you know he was speaking to Jesus, where is the name Jesus mentioned in Gen 1:26.

honeychild:

Jesus pre-existed because he said so. When God said 'let us create man' he was talking to Jesus (in his pre-human state).
Our salvation is based on the whole body of truth revealed in the Bible. Why should I take a stand contrary to what the Bible says?
On this topic, we will have to agree to disagree, Frosbel. I'm outta here.

Frosbel is not fit to talk about the gospel but he is very quick, not only to contribute but to condemn issues he knows nothing about.

7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8 For physical
training
is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

You need to go train/study properly before coming here to speak like an authority.

[quote author=shdemidemi]

You come across like someone that wants to prove a point without facts. I will put it this way, when you look at your mirror, what do you see?

I don't see anything too difficult in this.

I produce facts, you skip them and come back after your strawman debate to suggest that I have not provided facts.

The resounding theme throughout scripture is that no one has seen GOD, even Moses who was very close to God only saw his back parts - Exodus 33:18-21

who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen - 1 Timothy 6:16

or

But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live. " - Exodus 33:20


Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God , as his Son , he came to show us the Father and he did so in speech and deed perfectly representing his father to the world that we may know him.

Now the word appeared there is the Greek word optomahei, from which we get optometry. And it literally is translated—visibly seen.

No, I would not say it to you, you came up with a quote that says no one had seen God. I have given you a verse where someone saw God. The onus is on you to study cos the bible does not contradict but you lack understanding.

No one has see GOD , I sometimes wonder that bible you read, we have seen his SON but not himself.

John 1:18
New International Version (NIV)
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

It does support his pre-existence because if a visible image of God actually appeared to people in the old testament, it can only be Christ.

no you are meandering through the truth.

Where in scripture is it suggested that Christ appeared to the people as GOD in the form of MAN ? Besdies how could Jesus have appeared to the people as a MAN in the bible when he was not yet conceived in the womb of Mary.

Mate stop this junk theology that is so out of order.

shdemidemi:

Frosbel is not fit to talk about the gospel but he is very quick, not only to contribute but to condemn issues he knows nothing about.

7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly. 8 For physical
training
is of some value, but godliness has value for all things, holding promise for both the present life and the life to come.

You need to go train/study properly before coming here to speak like an authority.

I am sorry but you are totally out of order with many of your teachings , for example suggesting that Gentiles need not repent because repentance is only for the Jews and many other false teachings.

The Gospel is the good news of the kingdom of GOD and all that it entails, from the death , burial and resurrection of Christ to the sending of the Holy Spirit to birth as many as will accept this good news, into the kingdom of GOD which will shortly be manifested on earth.

You really do not seem to grasp these simple truths because you always start from a position of complexity instead of agreeing with simply biblical statements.

frosbel: The resounding theme throughout scripture is that no one has seen GOD, even Moses who was very close to God only saw his back parts - Exodus

I never said you were wrong, all I did was give you a scripture where someone saw God face to face.

30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God [b]face to face, [/b]and my life is preserved.”

1)address that please.
2) asked you to tell me what you see when you look in the mirror, I am still waiting for a response

answer those questions now, so we can proceed.

shdemidemi:

I never said you were wrong, all I did was give you a scripture where someone saw God face to face.

30 So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God [b]face to face, [/b]and my life is preserved.”

1)address that please.
2) asked you to tell me what you see when you look in the mirror, I am still waiting for a response

answer those questions now, so we can proceed.

Since you are so knowledgeable on the word of GOD and I lack understanding, I have come to you for knowledge and therefore ask, in what form did JACOB see GOD ?

frosbel:

I am sorry but you are totally out of order with many of your teachings , for example suggesting that Gentiles need not repent because repentance is only for the Jews and many other false teachings.

The Gospel is the good news of the kingdom of GOD and all that it entails, from the death , burial and resurrection of Christ to the sending of the Holy Spirit to birth as many as will accept this good news, into the kingdom of GOD which will shortly be manifested on earth.

You really do not seem to grasp these simple truths because you always start from a position of complexity instead of agreeing with simply biblical statements.

We have separate threads for those topics, you rarely run away from topics even when you are wrong. Bu, I can't seem to find you on any of such threads anymore, you want to get a cheap point here by making vague statements. cheeky

shdemidemi:

We have separate threads for those topics, you rarely run away from topics even when you are wrong. Bu, I can't seem to find you on any of such threads anymore, you want to get a cheap point here by making vague statements. cheeky

But you did say Gentiles do not need to repent, I can quote you if you want !

frosbel:

Since you are so knowledgeable on the word of GOD and I lack understanding, I have come to you for knowledge and therefore ask, in what form did JACOB see GOD ?

Joker, you see why I insist you should go study before coming here as an authority. You have contradicted yourself, you are looking to me for an answer you would eventually use to start another argument.

shdemidemi:

Joker, you see why I insist you should go study before coming here as an authority. You have contradicted yourself, you are looking to me for an answer you would eventually use to start another argument.

Mate , you said I lack understanding, besides I have never claimed authority , you are the real life teacher, so teach us.

In what form did JACOB see GOD, I will help you if you cannot proceed.

frosbel:

But you did say Gentiles do not need to repent, I can quote you if you want !

Like I said, this is not the thread for that, but for the benefit of anyone reading from here- I said Paul never mentioned repentance in all of his letters to the church. He did not for a reason, he was speaking to the church(gentiles and jews) under a covenant that needs us to on BELIEVE not REPENT. An understanding of these two words can only be reached after one understand the book of Romans.

Lets leave that for now, in other news , focus on this thread.

frosbel:

Mate , you said I lack understanding, besides I have never claimed authority , you are the real life teacher, so teach us.

In what form did JACOB see GOD, I will help you if you cannot proceed.

I am not your teacher. If you are not an authority, you will not be so quick to tag anyone false on this forum. You are just too orthodox in your ignorance.

Anyways, do you accept my definition of appear, cos I can give you other parts where God Himself visibly appeared to people(not angels appearing)?

[quote author=shdemidemi]

I am not your teacher. If you are not an authority, you will not be so quick to tag anyone false on this forum. You are just too orthodox in your ignorance.

I use the word false with the utmost sensitivity and caution.

And you keep throwing the word ignorance around without being able to respond to a simple question asked you by an ignoramus.

In what form did GOD appear to JACOB, please do not dodge the question.

Anyways, do you accept my definition of appear, cos I can give you other parts where God Himself visibly appeared to people(not angels appearing)?

Please do, but answer the one at the top first -

frosbel: Please do, but answer the one at the top first

I asked if you accept my definition of appear, I will answer your question, answer mine.

shdemidemi:

I asked if you accept my definition of appear, I will answer your question, answer mine.

Escape route !

frosbel:

Escape route !

Well, if you say so. But really, there is really no reason to run from your question. I only want to make sure we are on the same page from the start, so you don't turn back out of ignorance to start another argument. Check the meaning of 'appear' and compare yours with mine, to see if we are saying the same thing about the word as used in the context.

benalvino: if I wasn't a Trinitarian... this alone will make me believe in the trinity. I wonder how ijawkid and other frosbel teams against Trinitarians will feel about this.


Philippians 2:5-11

New International Version (NIV)


5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:


6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

I am angry at my self debating with you before. you ignore every thing about the bible. and not a single reason why Jesus did not exist before he was born is given.

honestly I don't see any reason for one to continue on this thread talking about it.
because Jesus says father Glorify me with the Glory I had with you before the world begin. please the bible is not a comic you hear.

Go and help yourself here. Your confusion has been cleared. Believing the truth is not by force.
www.nairaland.com/1318987/trinitarian-disrespect-god/7

Boomark:

Go and help yourself here. Your confusion has been cleared. Believing the truth is not by force.
www.nairaland.com/1318987/trinitarian-disrespect-god/7

even frosbel that opens the thread is not staying on topic. I couldn't find you in the thread that ijawkid ran away from and his entourage lol. I see the thread you directed me to. and I smiled.

^^^ the way they flee after opening threads is alarming, imagine, frosbel can't be located on his own thread.

shdemidemi: ^^^ the way they flee after opening threads is alarming, imagine, frosbel can't be located on his own thread.

the title of the thread will even make you stay away. I was asking how come ijawkid and others did not try to correct him?

^^^ You guys haven't seen anything! Many are the promises "I am busy now; I will reply later" --- all na lie; na to take style run!

See how long people have been waiting on the promise here (and that is just one example) https://www.nairaland.com/1064416/put-hard-questions-trinitarian-theologians/1#12501321

benalvino:

even frosbel that opens the thread is not staying on topic. I couldn't find you in the thread that ijawkid ran away from and his entourage lol. I see the thread you directed me to. and I smiled.

Oboy your own thread wey you give false definition of Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation.....

Thread wey you yourself dey completely ignorant of who Jesus be.....

I give you scriptural examples of the use of such expression you turn to steven wonder.......

Oya I ask you why the Father no fit be the beginning of Gods creation u begin dance azonto....

Then you dey here dey yap say we run......

Thread wey u dey argue yeyely as to the oneness wey we get with Christ.....


Thread wey even as we show you how Jesus take be saviour u argue blindly they claim say Jesus na Yahweh since Yahweh say na him be the only saviour....

We no run...we just leave you to wallow in your pagan doctrine called the trinity...

The moment you agree say Jesus no be the Father na him I just leave the thread....

My job was finished on that thread......

shdemidemi: ^^^ the way they flee after opening threads is alarming, imagine, frosbel can't be located on his own thread.

See chief pilot dey open mouth....

I can see you struggling with the truth here..»»»»

New International Version
(©2011)
No one has seen the Father
except the one who is from God;
only he has seen the Father.


Keep fighting hard....

ijawkid:

Oboy your own thread wey you give false definition of Jesus being the beginning of Gods creation.....

Thread wey you yourself dey completely ignorant of who Jesus be.....

I give you scriptural examples of the use of such expression you turn to steven wonder.......

Oya I ask you why the Father no fit be the beginning of Gods creation u begin dance azonto....

Then you dey here dey yap say we run......

Thread wey u dey argue yeyely as to the oneness wey we get with Christ.....


Thread wey even as we show you how Jesus take be saviour u argue blindly they claim say Jesus na Yahweh since Yahweh say na him be the only saviour....

We no run...we just leave you to wallow in your pagan doctrine called the trinity...

The moment you agree say Jesus no be the Father na him I just leave the thread....

My job was finished on that thread......

thanks for derailing this thread....

Do Trinitarians say Jesus is the father in the Godhead in the first place?

shdemidemi:

thanks for derailing this thread....

Do Trinitarians say Jesus is the father in the Godhead in the first place?

If Jesus is not the Father and you know it then why argue that 3 persons make up the one GOD instead of Just one the Father??...

Why the madness??!!!!!

Why

Are u people not sick??

ijawkid:

If Jesus is not the Father and you know it then why argue that 3 persons make up the one GOD instead of Just one the Father??...

Why the madness??!!!!!

Why

Are u people not sick??

Don't play the defence, it was just a question that needs a simple answer. I ask again, did they tell you the son is the father in the Godhead?

shdemidemi: ^^^ the way they flee after opening threads is alarming, imagine, frosbel can't be located on his own thread.

Not all of us are students.

I am waiting for your reply to my question.