frosbel:


I will respond to this in detail this weekend, but next time please quote references, plagiarism is actually fraud.

I have kindly helped you post the link from where you photocopied this article, seems like you are running out of orignal ideas fast

https://bible.org/seriespage/consciousness-soul-after-death

Ok i will be waiting.lol.not ideas per se but laziness in typing lengthy post,am having a busy schedule,anyways thanks for the link.

frosbel:

What is the purpose of a SOUL drinking water ? Does it have a digestive system ?

Thanks.

The rich man's thirst or what he was passing hrough as we saw in this case was a punishment and the water he requested was only for one purpose- to cool his tongue. In other words to relieve him a bit from the punishment. The thirst was about punishment and torment and he needed the slightest relieve hence the request for just a drop, not a cup. Simply shows it was not about drinking water. Now the message there is that the torments of hell has no relieve of any kind. No matter how minute the relieve may be, it will not be granted. It has nothing to do with digestive system or drinking water, what can a drop of water do? Nothing. The rich did not also demand for water to drink. Jesus was simply passing the message about the severe torments of hell fire which has no slightest relieve. The message of Jesus here tallies with the messages he gave about the torments of hell in other places in the scripture. Same message of the torments of hell being passed in different form.

ijawkid:
From d definition of the pagan wonderful doctrine called the trinity can we say the spirit,soul and body are 3 distinct persons??.....

The post you quoted didn't mention that.May be you need an REG(Recommended Eye Glasses).

And please what do you understand by the spirit that returns back to God after a man dies??......

And what also do you understand by Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward?

I don't even see how these verses prove the trinity teaching......

Of cos the preaching of the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.

In all of it all I see one person standing out as the one GOD and that is the Father and not a combination of the rest acclaimed co -eternal Gods.....

You probably missed that wonderful analogy i made in benalvino thread about the Father being the source(soul) Jesus being the word(flesh) and the Holy Spirit being God's Spirit.Go back and selah...

Now back to the topic....
Is your spirit, body and soul different persons??.......since you have wrenched what it means when it is said we are made in Gods image......I wonder what you would say of Jesus who is also an image of God....

Is Jesus tripartite too??.....

Confusion galore

dumb argument. Try to relate it to what i said above and go meditate deeply on John 1:1 whenever you read it insert God not a god.

And after a well post the question arises.....

Where is the soul and spirit of adam the oga who landed us in this wahala??......

I can't even believe you would read hebrews 4:12 and apply it to man been tripartite..........and u forgot to classify thoughts and intentions in that verse....

In which group do we put thoughts and intentions??....under soul,spirit or body??....

why do you keep repeating questions i have answered? ehh! i hope you wrote and pass you exams well o.These question are answered abeg.thoughts,intentions etc are soul.

Smh!!!!!!.......

You TOO..smh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bidam: The post you quoted didn't mention that.May be you need an REG(Recommended Eye Glasses).

Isn't what you are spewing here completely pagan.......??...

Bidam:
And what also do you understand by Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward?

I asked you first.........answer.......

Bidam:

Of cos the preaching of the gospel is foolishness to those who are perishing.
You probably missed that wonderful analogy i made in benalvino thread about the Father being the source(soul) Jesus being the word(flesh) and the Holy Spirit being God's Spirit.Go back and selah...

Your analogy was useless.........

I repeat all I sEe is the Father as 1 God and not 3 persons making up one GOD......

Or abi no be trinity again u believe in??....

Bidam:

dumb argument. Try to relate it to what i said above and go meditate deeply on John 1:1 whenever you read it insert God not a god.

Mumu answer my questions and stop this nonsense.....

Is your spirit,body and soul different different distinct persons making up one BIDAM??.......


John 1:1 does not support your foolish doctrine.....

Bidam:

why do you keep repeating questions i have answered? ehh! i hope you wrote and pass you exams well o.These question are answered abeg.thoughts,intentions etc are soul.
You TOO..smh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thoughts and intentions are soul??....

Na scriptures talk am or you just classify am to fit into ur gospel??.....

And please can you tell all of us where the spirit ,soul and body of adam is??.....

frosbel:

But the preceding stories were all parables, what makes this one differrent ?

- Besides , what was the rich man's name ?

- Does a supposed disembodied soul have a body that can drink water as this Rich MAN wanted to , if this offer had been granted ?

- If Lazarus was prevented from going back from the dead to warn his brethren because the scriptures were sufficient for them to repent , why should we accept stories of HELL from people who have supposedly come back from the dead in contrast to this parable or story of you like ?

- Why is the devil and his henchmen roaming the earth when weaker human beings are in torment , some for over 5000 years ?

good questions.

[quote author=alexleo]

The rich man's thirst or what he was passing hrough as we saw in this case was a punishment and the water he requested was only for one purpose- to cool his tongue.

But how can a Soul have a tongue and the Body also have a tongue , does a MAN have 2 tongues ?

In other words to relieve him a bit from the punishment. The thirst was about punishment and torment and he needed the slightest relieve hence the request for just a drop, not a cup. Simply shows it was not about drinking water.

Sorry , this is your own interjection into this verse, the bible indicates no such thing.

Bidam: The resurrection body of Christ was characterized as having flesh and bones, but He did not seem to be restricted by physical barriers. This is evident in the fact that He could enter closed rooms without apparent difficulty (Luke 24:36; John 20:19). And that is very much different from when a man dies,and as for the other replies i have shown you what dan 12:2 is actually saying yours is just a mere philosophical replies and not what the scriptures are truly saying.

Indeed, he was flesh and bones but with a new supernatural body.

[quote author=Bidam]

In Ecclesiastes we read “The dead know not anything” (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Certainly we all agree that a dead and deteriorating body has absolutely no consciousness of anything past, present, or future. But are the advocates of “soul-sleep” justified in using the above text as evidence of the unconscious state of the soul after death? We believe that this method using a text to support a false theory that elsewhere is denied in Scripture, proves that those who stoop to such methods either are untruthful or deficient. Those who teach “soul-sleep” will find it quite difficult to harmonize their views with other statements that are made by the same writer of Ecclesiastes:

Okay, opening salvo, let's go to the next statement.

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7).


All go unto one place; for all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again (Ecclesiastes 3:20).


Now we know that this verse is speaking of the body, for in the next verse we read:

Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward? (Ecclesiastes 3:21).

So MAN dies and his BODY returns to the ground and his 'spirit' returns to Almighty GOD , but no mention of SOUL here , hmm.

Any let's carry on .

In Scripture we read that man sleeps, but the sleep always is identified with the body. Never once does the Bible refer to the soul sleeping. Where some fall into danger is in identifying man merely with his body and in ignoring the fact that he is a triune being. Man is a trinity; body, soul and spirit. Now the body is not the whole man. Therefore it cannot be concluded that the death of the body is the death of the whole man.

Man is a trinity like GOD is a trinity, 3 persons who are ONE , lol. Now we can see the source of all these pagan concepts.

May I suggest that you open a lexicon and examine the meaning of 'spirit' as it pertains to MAN , and you will discover that it never refers to a separate person but the life of GOD in him, sometimes called wind or breath.

I agree the body is not MAN himself without the spirit of GOD , but when the spirit of GOD is in him , MAN becomes a living SOUL or living Being. Check out Genesis 2:7


An example of it's usage :

"But if you turn away from them, they panic. When you take away their breath, they die and turn again to dust." - Psalm 104:29

Another misconstrued verse is found in the prophecy of Daniel where we read:

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt (Daniel 12:2). Which frosbel did quote earlier and is using now to justify this falsehood.

Man is a triune being because he is created in the image of God. “God said, Let us make man in Our image” (Genesis 1:26). We know that God is a Trinity. The Holy Trinity is clearly set forth in the Apostle Paul’s benediction that closed his Second Corinthian Epistle: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen” (2 Corinthians 13:14). Our Lord Himself said, in what we call “The Great Commission”: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19). Created in the image of God, man is likewise a trinity. He has a spiritual nature that is separate and distinct from the body in which it dwells.

Now we can begin to see where this gross error emanates from, for if GOD is a Trinity then MAN must also be a Trinity, even though GOD's Trinity and MAN's trinity are of two different kinds , for MAN is 3 components into 1 being , while GOD is 3 beings yet one Person. Is this not madness I say ?

Though Genesis 2:7 says that MAN was formed of the dust of the earth and only became a living SOUL after the breath of GOD ( not a separate being ) entered him , these orthodox theologians keep parroting pagan myths which have no place in scripture or Jewish culture.

ijawkid:
Isn't what you are spewing here completely pagan.......??...

I asked you first.........answer.......









Your analogy was useless.........

I repeat all I sEe is the Father as 1 God and not 3 persons making up one GOD......

Or abi no be trinity again u believe in??....



Mumu answer my questions and stop this nonsense.....

Is your spirit,body and soul different different distinct persons making up one BIDAM??.......


John 1:1 does not support your foolish doctrine.....


Thoughts and intentions are soul??....

Na scriptures talk am or you just classify am to fit into ur gospel??.....

And please can you tell all of us where the spirit ,soul and body of adam is??.....

I don't like the style of this argument..asking questions that where already provided by my post is tautology..pls go back and read my post again with the scriptures i quoted until light dawns on you.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]There is only one scripture that explain where the soul goes to after death and that is luke 16, if Jesus says it i believe it.

Frosbel.. your soul and spirit is the real you. God has no need of the container called flesh, stop the blind argument.

Bidam: I don't like the style of this argument..asking questions that where already provided by my post is tautology..pls go back and read my post again with the scriptures i quoted until light dawns on you.

You are a complete waste.......

Team anti-ressurection.......

ijawkid:

You are a complete waste.......

Team anti-ressurection.......

lol..your opinion.God says i am special not a waste.

Bidam: lol..your opinion.God says i am special not a waste.

Special in what way??...

When your whole doctrine contravenes the foundation of christianity....

RESSURECTION.......

ijawkid:

Special in what way??...

When your whole doctrine contravenes the foundation of christianity....

RESSURECTION.......

You must be delusional like i always say. What do you understand by resurrection?

Bidam: You must be delusional like i always say. What do you understand by resurrection?

......

Ask yourself and your false doctrine.....

With your kind of doctrine we don't nEed ressurection.....


Smh!!!!.......

ijawkid:

......

Ask yourself and your false doctrine.....

With your kind of doctrine we don't nEed ressurection.....


Smh!!!!.......

I don't even understand what you are talking about in the first place..and that was why i asked you what is resurrection?..simple question and here you are dancing azonto without answering the question.

shdemidemi: Frosbel.. your soul and spirit is the real you. God has no need of the container called flesh, stop the blind argument.

So which part of us goes to HELL when we die and where does the other part go to ?

I want scripture backing please.

frosbel:

So which part of us goes to HELL when we die and where does the other part go to ?

I want scripture backing please.

Your soul will be judged bro not your body.

shdemidemi:
Your soul will be judged bro not your body.

Okay , what about the spirit ?

frosbel: I think this article is necessary to counter the plague of FALSE visions from Hell and to further enlighten the brethren on the need to be careful when listening to , or reading about these encounters.

While I do not agree with your views on "hell". I must concur that based on scripture it is certain that these so-called visions of heaven and hell are false and designed to mislead.

It must also be pointed out how very similar these visions are to Dante's work: The Divine Comedy.

ijawkid:

Special in what way??...

When your whole doctrine contravenes the foundation of christianity....

RESSURECTION.......

1 Corinthians 15:12-19

New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
..................

If dead persons are already in heaven enjoying themself, why will God bring them back to earth via the resurrection ?

@Bidam stand is of the greeks and their 'hell' philosophy.

Bidam does not believe in the resurrection of the dead coming back to life, since he said the dead are already in heavenly bliss via the spirit.(he beliefs the spirit is the real person)

truthislight:

1 Corinthians 15:12-19

New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
..................

If dead persons are already in heaven enjoying themself, why will God bring them back to earth via the resurrection ?

@Bidam stand is of the greeks and their 'hell' philosophy.

Bidam does not believe in the resurrection of the dead coming back to life, since he said the dead are already in heavenly bliss via the spirit.(he beliefs the spirit is the real person)

Here comes the comedian.The comedy show has started. Do you believe that Jesus is Yahweh?

Bidam: Here comes the comedian.The comedy show has started. Do you believe that Jesus is Yahweh?

Is that ^ the answer to the post i had made earlier ?

Ant you even ashamed that you cant even defend yourself ?

See it again here:

ijawkid:

Special in what way??...

When your whole doctrine contravenes the foundation of christianity....

RESSURECTION.......

1 Corinthians 15:12-19

New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
..................

If dead persons are already in heaven enjoying themself, why will God bring them back to earth via the resurrection ?

@Bidam stand is of the greeks and their 'hell' philosophy.

Bidam does not believe in the resurrection of the dead coming back to life, since he said the dead are already in heavenly bliss via the spirit.(he beliefs the spirit is the real person)

^

can you clarify yourself and your teaching ?

Dont "the dead go to heaven immediately they die and the wicked go to hell like you teach using the rich man and lazarus" ?

Please, clarify yourself. Or ever keep silent whenever the bible is being discussed.

Peace.

truthislight:

Is that ^ the answer to the post i had made earlier ?

Ant you even ashamed that you cant even defend yourself ?

See it again here:



1 Corinthians 15:12-19

New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
..................

If dead persons are already in heaven enjoying themself, why will God bring them back to earth via the resurrection ?

@Bidam stand is of the greeks and their 'hell' philosophy.

Bidam does not believe in the resurrection of the dead coming back to life, since he said the dead are already in heavenly bliss via the spirit.(he beliefs the spirit is the real person)

^

can you clarify yourself and your teaching ?

Dont "the dead go to heaven immediately they die and the wicked go to hell like you teach using the rich man and lazarus" ?

Please, clarify yourself. Or ever keep silent whenever the bible is being discussed.

Peace.

I will respond later. Am busy now.

truthislight:

Is that ^ the answer to the post i had made earlier ?

Ant you even ashamed that you cant even defend yourself ?

See it again here:



1 Corinthians 15:12-19

New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection of the Dead

12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.
..................

If dead persons are already in heaven enjoying themself, why will God bring them back to earth via the resurrection ?

@Bidam stand is of the greeks and their 'hell' philosophy.

Bidam does not believe in the resurrection of the dead coming back to life, since he said the dead are already in heavenly bliss via the spirit.(he beliefs the spirit is the real person)

^

can you clarify yourself and your teaching ?

Dont "the dead go to heaven immediately they die and the wicked go to hell like you teach using the rich man and lazarus" ?

Please, clarify yourself. Or ever keep silent whenever the bible is being discussed.

Peace.

I think you need your brain examined. These accusations against me are false and foolish. Give us proof where i said there is no resurrection of the dead and spirits are enjoying heavenly bliss or forever remain silent in this forum.My argument in this forum has always been that Christ is risen from the dead and has become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.Like i told frosbel and am telling you block head now, The Bible clearly teaches two resurrections, one for the saved and one for the damned (John 5:29; Revelation 20:4-6; Revelation 11-15). It might do you some good to go study, rather than come here spewing thrash.Typical Ad hominem that should not be replied when ijawkid started it in the first place. SMH!!!

Bidam: The Bible clearly teaches two resurrections, one for the saved and one for the damned (John 5:29; Revelation 20:4-6; Revelation 11-15). It might do you some good to go study, rather than come here spewing thrash.Typical Ad hominem that should not be replied when ijawkid started it in the first place. SMH!!!

Now, we are making a head way on you as it concerns resurrection, please, keep it up.

Again, since you say there is a resurrection of "all" the dead in the grave, as shown by the John 5:28,29 and Rev. you quoted. That all the dead in the grave and sea, etc will come out during the resurection, meaning that they the dead remain in their grave till the resurrection and not that they are in heaven/hell.

So, please, never you quote the parable of the rich man and lazarus and teach something different, like people being in heaven/fire/"hell" befor the resurrection, meaning that lazarus was not literally in heaven, neither was the rich man literally in fire/"hell", but a parable.

Always remember that people going to heaven immediately they die negates the bible teaching of a resurrection for "all".

Or else, you will be teaching that the resurrection had already occured befor paul wrote his Letters.

And that people had already ascended to heaven as against Jesus word that "no man has ascended to heaven".

Peace.

Bidam: I think you need your brain examined. These accusations against me are false and foolish. Give us proof where i said there is no resurrection of the dead and spirits are enjoying heavenly bliss or forever remain silent in this forum.My argument in this forum has always been that Christ is risen from the dead and has become the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.Like i told frosbel and am telling you block head now, The Bible clearly teaches two resurrections, one for the saved and one for the damned (John 5:29; Revelation 20:4-6; Revelation 11-15). It might do you some good to go study, rather than come here spewing thrash.Typical Ad hominem that should not be replied when ijawkid started it in the first place. SMH!!!

If our heads are block heads then yours must be olumo rock.....

Which ever way you try to analyze ressurection it completely destroys your teaching........

Ressurection is ressurection........

One has to be totally dead and not alive somewhere to experience ressurection.......

U have been debunked on this hell fire/immortality of the soul thrash before...and you would be debunked again....until you abandon the teaching...
......

truthislight:

Now, we are making a head way on you as it concerns resurrection, please, keep it up.

Again, since you say there is a resurrection of "all" the dead in the grave, as shown by the John 5:28,29 and Rev. you quoted. That all the dead in the grave and sea, etc will come out during the resurection, meaning that they the dead remain in their grave till the resurrection and not that they are in heaven/hell.

So, please, never you quote the parable of the rich man and lazarus and teach something different, like people being in heaven/fire/"hell" befor the resurrection, meaning that lazarus was not literally in heaven, neither was the rich man literally in fire/"hell", but a parable.

Always remember that people going to heaven immediately they die negates the bible teaching of a resurrection for "all".

Or else, you will be teaching that the resurrection had already occured befor paul wrote his Letters.

And that people had already ascended to heaven as against Jesus word that "no man has ascended to heaven".

Peace.

you are olodo number 2..go back and read my post clearly.

ijawkid:

If our heads are block heads then yours must be olumo rock.....

Which ever way you try to analyze ressurection it completely destroys your teaching........

Ressurection is ressurection........

One has to be totally dead and not alive somewhere to experience ressurection.......

U have been debunked on this hell fire/immortality of the soul thrash before...and you would be debunked again....until you abandon the teaching...
......

I am asking you the third time not for me but for other viewers. Define resurrection,let's see? Your straw man arguments won't get you any where if you really wanna learn.

I av same tots abt dis so-called revelations of heaven nd hell, it's unnecessary nd infact undermines d essence of d bible. I personally believe dat d bible is more than sufficient to help any believer make heaven nd avoid d horrors of hell once we abide by d prescriptions of d bible bt unfortunately pple get excessively aroused by such claims. I once listened 2 one pastor Abraham who claimed 2 av such experiences only 2 later learn he's been going abt 2 refute some of his claims as instructed by God. One needs 2 b very careful because d devil can hijack such to mislead pple

Bidam: you are olodo number 2..go back and read my post clearly.

is that ^ the answer to this below ? :

truthislight:

Now, we are making a head way on you as it concerns resurrection, please, keep it up.

Again, since you say there is a resurrection of "all" the dead in the grave, as shown by the John 5:28,29 and Rev. you quoted. That all the dead in the grave and sea, etc will come out during the resurection, meaning that they the dead remain in their grave till the resurrection and not that they are in heaven/hell.

So, please, never you quote the parable of the rich man and lazarus and teach something different, like people being in heaven/fire/"hell" befor the resurrection, meaning that lazarus was not literally in heaven, neither was the rich man literally in fire/"hell", but a parable.

Always remember that people going to heaven immediately they die negates the bible teaching of a resurrection for "all".

Or else, you will be teaching that the resurrection had already occured befor paul wrote his Letters.

And that people had already ascended to heaven as against Jesus word that "no man has ascended to heaven".

Peace.

Dont you think you have a lot more to do when addressing that ^ above ?

Well, take my advise then.

Peace.