shdemidemi:

You have to be able to differentiate the mosaic laws from other laws.

We have natural laws and principles, you need to separate all that from the law of Moses or the law God gave Adam and Eve

Sometimes, the word `law' will simply be used as a fact of everyday living. In other words, we speak of the law of gravity. It's just a fact of our living everyday that what is up is going to fall down. No man can change the law of gravity. It's absolute. We speak of the law of buoyancy. The law of buoyancy is that if you can put something in the water that weighs less than the amount of water it pushes aside, it's going to float. It's a law. It's a fact of life

you are a good teacher.these pple just mix everything together without knowing what is what.the whole mosaic system was torn down by paul thru the revelation of Christ.good work u doing here!

Bidam, you talked so much but you said nothing on the subject i raised.Absolutely NOTHING.You need to STUDY the whole apostlic doctrine book, ROMANS to get delivered from yoke of bondage you got yourself into.You can't be a great teacher if you don't understand book of ROMANs.That books carried from Genesis to Revelation put together.I can pick one verse in roman n destroy all your arguements.again,please address what i said

flourishG: do u know the law is part of the old agreement n covenant?and when the old chnages to new,the law also changes.do u know that?

please address the above quote n lets see how far u can do a good job here.

flourishG: why do u always take grace teachers as lawless teachers?there's a law in christ,the LAW OF SPRIRIT OF LIFE is it and it is not mosaic law.why is this thing so hard for u pple to understand?was the law of moses given n written to the christians or to jewish nation?do you keep the whole moses law?

Ok, I'm going to catch a flight soon but had to answer this. I will warn you though, if you keep talking like a primary school child, I will ignore you.
The Israelites are a people of promise. The law was given to them. None of them kept it perfectly, but God made it that way, and no man can boast in His presence. Law made them aware of their sins. Paul said "I would not have know sin if it was not for the law"
God divorced 10 of the tribes, the northern tribes, the House of Israel. The prophets said these would be brought back into covenant. How is this when you cannot remarry the wife you divorced? This is the mystery Peter reveals to the Jews in Romans 7. Why is he suddenly talking about marriage?
Well the Messiah died and rose again, and we die to our old selves:
2 Corinthianss 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

"This Law of the spirit of life" that you say you are under, I hope it is not alcohol because you people come up with something new each day.

Ok let me move forward. The first Christians were called Christians because they were followers of Christ. These were Jews. First to receive the holy spirit on pentecost day (one of the seven holy feast days the modern church actually remembers, and hypocritically, tells others they are under bondage for observing the other six). They went to the synagogue, they heard the law of Moses. Acts 15:21 "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."

Paul and Peter were not at odds with one another.

Gal 2:2 "And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain"

The only difference is Paul was commissions by Christ to go to the gentiles, and Peter and his group stayed in Jerusalem and taught the Jews. But we know they had interacted with the same people. Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians. But is it not Peter that wrote to the same people at one point:
1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"
2 Peter 3:15-16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

side note: he called Paul's writing epistle, not scripture. Go look up what that means. If your whole doctrine is based on epistles that were not written to you, and your interpretation of it is at odds with scripture (old testament), then you need to go away and reflect.

So the church was Jews who followed Christ, and gentiles who, upon hearing the gospel, followed Christ too.

So, this dismantles my friend's idea that there are two gospels. One for the Jews who follow Christ, and another for the gentile.

Secondly, modern Christians should stop the negativity towards Judaism. Jesus was a Jew. Our 'religion' is bourne out of the fulfilment of prophecies given to the elect. If you are not Israelite/Hebrew by blood, then you are adopted into the family and become one of the elect. We are one.

Romans 11:20-21 "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee".

hmm, what does that mean for those who say they are eternally saved? If God can cut off the elect for blatant transgression, adultery with idols, don't think you can get away with it just because you were once saved.

Anyway, I will be back flying back on Tuesday/Wednesday.

Have a blessed weekend.

Shalom

bro, you are still mixing a lot up

JesusisLord85:
The Israelites are a people of promise. The law was given to them. None of them kept it perfectly, but God made it that way, and no man can boast in His presence. Law made them aware of their sins. Paul said "I would not have know sin if it was not for the law"
God divorced 10 of the tribes, the northern tribes, the House of Israel. The prophets said these would be brought back into covenant.

I believe your entire confusion is from this 'God divorced 10 tribes of Israel'. Give scriptural references so we can clear the issue.

JesusisLord85:
How is this when you cannot remarry the wife you divorced? This is the mystery Peter reveals to the Jews in Romans 7. Why is he suddenly talking about marriage?

The apostle did not suddenly talk about marriage, if you follow him fro Chapter 6, he used a couple of other illustrations to drive his point home. He used a seed, when a seed dies and it is buried in the soil, it comes out as a flower or a tree. He used the slave and the servant, he said a servant cannot be a slave to two masters. That led to the third example that a woman cannot be married to two husbands.

JesusisLord85:
Well the Messiah died and rose again, and we die to our old selves:
2 Corinthianss 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
"This Law of the spirit of life" that you say you are under, I hope it is not alcohol because you people come up with something new each day.

what are the old things that are gone? The day I believe the gospel of Christ, I died to sin/my old man/adamic nature, I also rose with Christ, you are no more who you use to be because you have a new master which is Christ, You become free from revolutions and legalism. when you make a revolution you are saying to yourself, I(me myself, there is no God here) am going to deprive my sinful body members of what they crave for, it becomes a struggle between you and your body members.

JesusisLord85:

Ok let me move forward. The first Christians were called Christians because they were followers of Christ. These were Jews. First to receive the holy spirit on pentecost day (one of the seven holy feast days the modern church actually remembers, and hypocritically, tells others they are under bondage for observing the other six). They went to the synagogue, they heard the law of Moses. Acts 15:21 "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.".

The Assembly of believers were not called Christians on the day of Pentecost, not even in Jerusalem but in Antioch where Barnabas and Saul were.

The scripture has never been a stagnant revelation, you need to follow it up until it reaches where God wants you to reach. Peter and the rest received the Holy Spirit far before Paul had the encounter with Christ. It is never a law to worship on Sunday as well.

JesusisLord85:
Paul and Peter were not at odds with one another.
The only difference is Paul was commissions by Christ to go to the gentiles, and Peter and his group stayed in Jerusalem and taught the Jews. But we know they had interacted with the same people. Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians. But is it not Peter that wrote to the same people at one point:
1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"
2 Peter 3:15-16 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

You contradict yourself, how can they have different audience and still write to the same people. Peter wrote to the strangers scattered in Galatia and the rest- Paul wrote to every believer of the gospel of the resurrection and ascension of Christ.

JesusisLord85:
side note: he called Paul's writing epistle, not scripture. Go look up what that means. If your whole doctrine is based on epistles that were not written to you, and your interpretation of it is at odds with scripture (old testament), then you need to go away and reflect.."

The epistles of Paul are as scripture as any other epistle. Any church that is not preaching these epistles are preaching other gospels without God's power. The power of God can only be active if the true gospel is preached, the bible says Romans 1:16a 'For I am not ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of God'- This gospel contains the power of God.

@ flourishg, I am ready when you are

shdemidemi: @ flourishg, I am ready when you are

okay brother.where do we begin?from the op or somewhere else?start it up n i will follow up whenever i come online.

Romans 4


4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?


[b]We must understand that It was not just Paul speaking in this book of Romans, the people were asking questions too and this verse is one of such instance. This is not really a big deal but it makes everything clearer when studying this book of Romans.

Abraham was a Syrian by birth, he was called out from his people by God. By the virtue of the call from God and the promise He got, Abraham became the father of the Hebrew nation.

In the three previous chapters Paul had succeeded in convincing these people that the gross immoral man, the moral man and the religious man are all unrighteous before God.

The question in this verse must have been asked by someone who is a descendant of Abraham through flesh cos it says 'our father', the Jews hold the promise of God to Abraham and by extension themselves being the children of Abraham in high esteem. This question could have distorted all Paul was saying if he does not lucidly explain how Abraham got the promise. Paul had to explain if Abraham got the promise by works (what he did) or through faith(believing/trusting) in God.[/b]

Flourishg, I wait for your view on verse 1 as well, if we agree we can move on to the next verse. Thanks

flourishG: Bidam, you talked so much but you said nothing on the subject i raised.Absolutely NOTHING.You need to STUDY the whole apostlic doctrine book, ROMANS to get delivered from yoke of bondage you got yourself into.You can't be a great teacher if you don't understand book of ROMANs.That books carried from Genesis to Revelation put together.I can pick one verse in roman n destroy all your arguements.again,please address what i said
please address the above quote n lets see how far u can do a good job here.

My friend stop blowing hot air all over the place, i showed you relevant scriptures which you failed to address concerning paul upholding and validating the law and you re here talking thrash,your fellow antinomian friend couldn't even help you. You better go back and study the bible again before opening your mouth to speak nonsense here. Can you address this scripture before we continue?

Acts 24:14 (NKJV) "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
. Only this scripture sef has made nonsense of your erroneous and blasphemous claims about paul tearing down the mosaic laws.Paul kept them. The only valid position of Paul was that you don't need to be circumcised according to mosaic laws to be saved. You guys now took that as a license to commit atrocities abi? Just show me one scripture that says the law has been abolished, you can't.The new covenant you are even talking about sef, the bible spoke of it in Jeremiah 31:31-33 an OT scripture for that matter and you are here spewing thrash.SMH.

Paul wrote:

13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away (Hebrews 8:13)..

I always warn you guys never to pick a scripture out of context, but you wouldn't listen. This will be the last time i am addressing this issue and i don't want to be dragged into an unedifying and senseless debate with folks who don't read and understand claiming they are always right and others are wrong. Before you understand what paul was saying in hebrews 8:13 you need to follow those verses immediately after it that shows what the Bible states was the first (the old) covenant.

1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience-- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation (Hebrews 9:1-10)..

The old covenant, then, consisted of the ordinances of the Levitical priesthood, washings, and fleshly ordinances like animal sacrifices.Shikena!!! no addition here or subtraction.

Paul then wrote what the new covenant was by quoting Jeremiah 31 :33:

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Hebrews 10:16).
.

Notice that he did not write that the ten commandments were to be done away and that in the new covenant it was acceptable to kill, steal, bear false witness, covet, or break any of the ten commandments. Because of the writing of the law on our hearts, this no longer requires that followers of God need to wear external signs of the law, hence this is why people in this new dispensation and age do not tend to wear tzitzits (specially knotted ritual fringes worn by observant Jews in Judaism,if you are a good bible student you should have researched this properly before attacking believers calling them judaizers because going by your name calling i should also be wearing a tzitzits. SMH!).

Paul did not bring anything new really he was just quoting the law and the prophets.The laws, statutes, and regulations of the Old Testament always need to be understood through the light of the New Testament.

Notice that those with a new heart and a new spirit will walk in God's statutes:

Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads," says the Lord GOD (Ezekiel 11:19-21).


This covenant in Hebrews is the same new covenant that the Prophet Jeremiah foretold:

Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people (Jeremiah 31:31-33)


The other time i ask shdemidemi a pertinent question which he failed woefully in replying. I said is "The law of the spirit of life different from God's law of old" or are they the same laws as of old? The answer can be found in Jesus teachings in the four synoptic gospels which you and shdemidemi hardly ever read.For Shdemidemi i can understand his plight since he claims those teachings are for Jewish audience only but not you flourishg. The spirit of the law as Jesus and others expounded means to go beyond the literal requirements and keep the intent--that is why Jesus taught that hate was like murder and lust like adultery. He absolutely did not teach that one spiritually can keep the ten commandments while literally breaking them.That is why Jesus paid the penalty, thus while various statutes are in place for our good, the ceremonial aspects have changed.

For shdemidemi: Know that the kingdom of Israel had a physical government whose king was supposed to study the laws and statutes in the Hebrew scriptures (Deuteronomy 17:14-20), notice what Jesus said:

My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here (John 18:36).


Jesus made it clear that since His kingdom was not of this world, that His servants would not fight in the military (hence the military statutes essentially do not apply for the Christian Church age) and that His servants (generally speaking) would not normally be enforcing the penalties of the laws and statutes. So you should stop focusing on National Israel and focus on One body as the church and bride of Christ.

The laws were never meant to be obeyed out of duty, which is why the Jews missed it, but they were meant to be obeyed out of revelation of who Christ is.Jesus made it clear that certain statutes in the OT were secondary to principles related to love and that outward focus was not what God wanted:

38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:38-48)

Notice that the Apostle Paul wrote that while physical circumcision is not required any more, keeping the commandments still do:

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters (1 Corinthians 7:19).

Mr bidam all these your downloads can't help, if you want a verse that clearly says we are not under the law of Moses, I can help with that.




Ephesians 2


14 For He is [Himself] our peace (our bond of unity and harmony). He has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one [body], and has broken down (destroyed, abolished) the hostile dividing wall between us,

15 By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace


7 Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,
8 Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual [b]ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?


Never mix the commandment of God in the new covenant with the law given to Israel, they are different.

shdemidemi: Mr bidam all these your downloads can't help, if you want a verse that clearly says we are not under the law of Moses, I can help with that.




Ephesians 2


14 For He is [Himself] our peace (our bond of unity and harmony). He has made us both [Jew and Gentile] one [body], and has broken down (destroyed, abolished) the hostile dividing wall between us,

15 By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace


7 Now if the dispensation of death engraved in letters on stone [the ministration of the Law], was inaugurated with such glory and splendor that the Israelites were not able to look steadily at the face of Moses because of its brilliance, [a glory] that was to fade and pass away,
8 Why should not the dispensation of the Spirit [this spiritual [b]ministry whose task it is to cause men to obtain and be governed by the Holy Spirit] be attended with much greater and more splendid glory?


Never mix the commandment of God in the new covenant with the law given to Israel, they are different.

Very funny.You calling an intensive bible study download, you can see i took ample time before replying flourishg post because i am swift to hear,slow to speak and slow to wrath unlike you who always jump with error to answer posts without digesting the import of it.The Ephesian scripture which you quoted by grossly misinterpreting it has even been addressed by the hebrews scriptures i quoted above.. You are reading it with an antinomian lenses.God's standards never changed.The ordinances and sacrifices were the levitical laws that were abolished since Christ sacrifices was once and for all.God is still the same yesterday, today and forever, i always warn you and i am still warning you not to take Paul's letters out of context,if you do you will miss what he is saying.You did not even address my post before jumping the gun to say what you want to say.SMH!!The law was never the enemy, sin was enemy. If the law was the enemy moses would never have been able to look at the glory and splendour of God despite his imperfections. I bet you never even asked the question as to why only moses carried that glory despite his imperfections.Don't forget even Aaron and miriam accused moses of marrying an Ethiopian woman which was unlawful. Like i said in the other post which you refused to read God is not looking for outward observance which produces duty. Let me copy paste it again since you are hard of hearing.I guess i will just be repeating my posts until you could probably addressed them,if not you have no case here.

Acts 24:14 (NKJV) "But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the Elohim of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.

This scripture i raised alone has destroyed your erroneous doctrine on the abolishing of the mosaic laws sef.Pls address this and don't dodge it.


Paul wrote:

13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away (Hebrews 8:13)..

I always warn you guys never to pick a scripture out of context, but you wouldn't listen. This will be the last time i am addressing this issue and i don't want to be dragged into an unedifying and senseless debate with folks who don't read and understand claiming they are always right and others are wrong. Before you understand what paul was saying in hebrews 8:13 you need to follow those verses immediately after it that shows what the Bible states was the first (the old) covenant.

1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience-- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation (Hebrews 9:1-10)..

The old covenant, then, consisted of the ordinances of the Levitical priesthood, washings, and fleshly ordinances like animal sacrifices.Shikena!!! no addition here or subtraction.

Paul then wrote what the new covenant was by quoting Jeremiah 31 :33:

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Hebrews 10:16).


Paul did not bring anything new really he was just quoting the law and the prophets.The laws, statutes, and regulations of the Old Testament always need to be understood through the light of the New Testament.


Notice that those with a new heart and a new spirit will walk in God's statutes:

Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God. But as for those whose hearts follow the desire for their detestable things and their abominations, I will recompense their deeds on their own heads," says the Lord GOD (Ezekiel 11:19-21).


This covenant in Hebrews is the same new covenant that the Prophet Jeremiah foretold:

Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people (Jeremiah 31:31-33)

The laws were never meant to be obeyed out of duty, which is why the Jews missed it, but they were meant to be obeyed out of revelation of who Christ is.Jesus made it clear that certain statutes in the OT were secondary to principles related to love and that outward focus was not what God wanted:


38 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. (Matthew 5:38-48)


Notice that the Apostle Paul wrote that while physical circumcision is not required any more, keeping the commandments still do:

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters (1 Corinthians 7:19).

I will start by saying the book of Hebrews was not written to a church, it was written to the Hebrews who still combine the law of Moses and Christ. You cannot combine the two, that is what that writer was saying. You would never see church terms like we being the body of Christ and all in that chapter.

Answer these two questions-
What was the law of Moses for?

Who were these laws given to ?


I would like you to show me where you got the idea that it was only circumcision that stopped as well but we can save that for later.

Please stop all the long post because there are too many things that I find wrong with them but it will be a waste of time responding to all at a time. Lets take things one after the other, thank you.

shdemidemi: I will start by saying the book of Hebrews was not written to a church, it was written to the Hebrews who still combine the law of Moses and Christ. You cannot combine the two, that is what that writer was saying. You would never see church terms like we being the body of Christ and all in that chapter.

9 For if the service that condemns [the ministration of doom] had glory, how infinitely more abounding in splendor and glory must be the service that makes righteous [the ministry that produces and fosters righteous living and right standing with God]!
10 Indeed, in view of this fact, what once had splendor [[c]the glory of the Law in the face of Moses] has come to have no splendor at all, because of the overwhelming glory that exceeds and excels it [[d]the glory of the Gospel in the face of Jesus Christ].

You how we can sort these things out, we need to explain every verse raised. Pls explain this verse


I would like you to show me where you got the idea that it was only circumcision that stopped.

Please stop all the long post because there are too many things that I find wrong with them but it will be waste of time responding to all at a time. Lets take things one after the other, thank you.

i laff in tongues. No wonder jesusislord was appalled at you.Anyway it will be difficult for you to change your stand since your brainwashing has gone so deeper than can be imagined.May God help us.Shalom.

You want to hide everything in a long post by quoting all the scriptures in between abi? MBA. You must explain every verse and every word you use.

Bidam to shdemidemi: I am swift to hear,slow to speak and slow to wrath unlike you who always jump with error to answer posts without digesting the import of it.

Could not have said that better, thought I was the only one that took notice.

Syncan:


Could not have said that better, thought I was the only one that took notice.

Am I disappointed that you (catholic apologist) and a die hard orthodox judaiser can see things from the same view point?

Mr Bidam.I will reply fully to u.okay.but before I reply u fully,let me destroy this yr argument of still keeping da laws of Moses.

Do u know dat acts of apostle is a TRANSITIONAL book?

Do you know that God who gave d law to Moses for Israel knows better how to bring d law to an end n terminate dat contract n that's what God did thru d death of Christ.this is what da apostle teaches in Romans 7:1-6.

Now,read Romans 7:1-6 n tell me what u understand teaching da spiritual doctrine of God there.this da verse dat destroy da whole argument of obeying da law or not or been under da law or not.please teach us what that verse is saying in da spiritual context n please look n read carefully before u teach us because yr whole argument comes to an end here if u don't understand da spiritual truth taught in these verses.waiting please!

Shdemidemi. I agree with u on Romans 4:1.am just learning dat aspect dat not only Paul was speaking in da book but I know da book was written to both Jews n gentiles establishing doctrines of God for the church of God(Jews n gentiles).I agree that da Abraham our father according to the flesh is always referring to the Jews.I would say Paul was asking or countering a popular questions in their heart or balancing d loopholes in his teaching or letters.if am writing a letter,how possible is it that my audiences are still talking IN MY LETTER TO THEM except am missing something somewhere.

flourishG: Mr Bidam.I will reply fully to u.okay.but before I reply u fully,let me destroy this yr argument of still keeping da laws of Moses.

sorry bro you have no case against my water-tight post.

Do u know dat acts of apostle is a TRANSITIONAL book?

for your info i quoted acts 24 where Paul was actually rounding up his ministry and testifying about believing the law and the prophets, if you don't understand that simple statement of paul then you need help.

Do you know that God who gave d law to Moses for Israel knows better how to bring d law to an end n terminate dat contract n that's what God did thru d death of Christ.this is what da apostle teaches in Romans 7:1-6.

I am really sick and tired of you inferring things that are not written in scriptures.For you to show me where the law was abolished now come become wahala chei.

Now,read Romans 7:1-6 n tell me what u understand teaching da spiritual doctrine of God there

You really must be a spiritual fool to say the law was abolished here.

this da verse dat destroy da whole argument of obeying da law or not or been under da law or not

That verse even buttressed my points further that we can't live by the written codes of the law and Christ sacrifice has made this laws to be written in the tablets of our heart.ofcos you failed to read my post to really understand that the new covenant is that the laws will be written in our hearts not the tablet of stones given to moses.Even here paul is stating emphatically the trouble he has with sin as an unbelieving jew.Did you fail to see where paul declares for i delight in the law of the lord according to the inward man? HE was actually describing his conflict between the inner and the outer man. If you stop only at romans 1-6. You will miss the whole point of paul,that is the problem i have with you guys, always cherry picking one scripture without reading everything as a whole.Go read romans 7:25 to understand the final conclusion of paul.Paul said in 1 Cor 15:31 "...... I die daily".
Instead following his inclination, Paul did God's will, even though crucifying his nature. Paul is a mature christian and He obey God's law. This is what we called Christian character perfection.

please teach us what that verse is saying in da spiritual context n please look n read carefully before u teach us because yr whole argument comes to an end here if u don't understand da spiritual truth taught in these verses.waiting please!

Even if i go into a full exegesis of that scripture your stiff neck attitude won't change.SMH!

Bidam: sorry bro you have no case against my water-tight post.

you call that rubbish you wrote a water-tight post?you must be word empty,spirit,soul n body.i hv told you,i will reply fully.y don't u wait for my reply before you start running your empty mouth on a internet.don't u know you children are going to read whatever you write in in years to come?

Bidam:
for your info i quoted acts 24 where Paul was actually rounding up his ministry and testifying about believing the law and the prophets, if you don't understand that simple statement of paul then you need help.

i thought u are a warrior in bible teaching n me not superior either but there're things i can say here n it will be hard for u to understand.only God can give u such deep teaching as God had bestowed on me like paul d apostle.i have stayed with the holy spirit for a while(not with men) because men will always teach their own things but the spirit teaches the deep things of God that is hard to understand like peter said of paul.now,on you quoting paul when he was rounding up his ministry,do u know there are some things even paul didn't 'know' or understand at certain stage of his ministry?Bidam,it is the spirit that searches n teaches the deep things of God that paul didn't teach or know.i give you an example of what paul didn't know fully but desire to know.Philippians 3:10 is one of them.think about that!therefore again,the book of acts of apostle is a transitional book.

Bidam:
I am really sick and tired of you inferring things that are not written in scriptures.For you to show me where the law was abolished now come become wahala chei.

Hahahahahahaha.Look at you.I will definitely teach this romans 7:1-6 verse by verse and your eyes will be opened.again,that verse alone destroyed you n your judaizers argument n y'all law keepers.i will break it down for you.nothing is being inferred in those verse.you just don't understand.look,paul always use a phrase such as verse one when he will says:you that wants to keep the law,do you KNOW what the law says?apparently i have fought judaizers in the other forum i was before coming to this forum n am here fully now.you pple that teach d keeping of moses law,you know nothing about the law n yet you wanna teach it.i will use the same law u think you know to tear down all your judaistic teaching.just hold on for me in a while.am gonna reply you this first n then show u what u don't 'understand' in those verse,you just reading but your understand is null n void.

Bidam:
You really must be a spiritual fool to say the law was abolished here.

just when i thought of slowing down on my insult then you who think u are spiritual starts yours.can you see that flesh lives with all of us?allow the one you say is spiritual fool to take u up a little.i knew you empty n there's nothing good that comes out of judaizers like you.i had knew from the day one i came here pple like u are empty,just making noise n polluting the internet with nonsense talks.i told u to cool down n read that verses well n see what doctrine is taught there but your empty head can't bring out any spiritual doctrine from there n yet u think i don't hv nothing to say on those verse.verses 1-6 is a doctrine and verse 7 forward is another etc.the law is null n void n those verses n when u swallow your pride you will learn, not in the stupid way you doing it.

Bidam: That verse even buttressed my points further that we can't live by the written codes of the law and Christ sacrifice has made this laws to be written in the tablets of our heart.ofcos you failed to read my post to really understand that the new covenant is that the laws will be written in our hearts not the tablet of stones given to moses.Even here paul is stating emphatically the trouble he has with sin as an unbelieving jew.Did you fail to see where paul declares for i delight in the law of the lord according to the inward man? HE was actually describing his conflict between the inner and the outer man. If you stop only at romans 1-6. You will miss the whole point of paul,that is the problem i have with you guys, always cherry picking one scripture without reading everything as a whole.Go read romans 7:25 to understand the final conclusion of paul.Paul said in 1 Cor 15:31 "...... I die daily".
Instead following his inclination, Paul did God's will, even though crucifying his nature. Paul is a mature christian and He obey God's law. This is what we called Christian character perfection.

you are beggining to shift the goal post here.again, the new covenant is totally different from the old and the law is part of the old covenant that is done away with.stop jumping like a frog,dats y you often miss step by step explanation.

Bidam: Even if i go into a full exegesis of that scripture your stiff neck attitude won't change.SMH!

simply because you know nothing nor understand nothing about that verses and you just proved it.you're empty on what is being said there in romans 7:1-6.what exegesis can u then make of it?can you give what u don;t have?i just gave you an opportunity to do your exegesis nonsense but what did u come up with?outright nothing!complete emptiness!you should be ashamed of yourself Mr.Bidam.i won;t start my insult here again,i promise but now,i will start to tear your judaistic teaching down n expose your fraudulent ways.trust me.

Shdemidemi.I think we should hold on with this exegesis for a while.allow me to deal with this guys first on this forum,all these judaizers on this forum are in trouble from now on.this mr. Bidam has provoked me now.am gone start a war on this forum against them all judaizers on the forum.

flourishG: you call that rubbish you wrote a water-tight post?you must be word empty,spirit,soul n body.i hv told you,i will reply fully.y don't u wait for my reply before you start running your empty mouth on a internet.don't u know you children are going to read whatever you write in in years to come?

i thought u are a warrior in bible teaching n me not superior either but there're things i can say here n it will be hard for u to understand.only God can give u such deep teaching as God had bestowed on me like paul d apostle.i have stayed with the holy spirit for a while(not with men) because men will always teach their own things but the spirit teaches the deep things of God that is hard to understand like peter said of paul.now,on you quoting paul when he was rounding up his ministry,do u know there are some things even paul didn't 'know' or understand at certain stage of his ministry?Bidam,it is the spirit that searches n teaches the deep things of God that paul didn't teach or know.i give you an example of what paul didn't know fully but desire to know.Philippians 3:10 is one of them.think about that!therefore again,the book of acts of apostle is a transitional book.

Hahahahahahaha.Look at you.I will definitely teach this romans 7:1-6 verse by verse and your eyes will be opened.again,that verse alone destroyed you n your judaizers argument n y'all law keepers.i will break it down for you.nothing is being inferred in those verse.you just don't understand.look,paul always use a phrase such as verse one when he will says:you that wants to keep the law,do you KNOW what the law says?apparently i have fought judaizers in the other forum i was before coming to this forum n am here fully now.you pple that teach d keeping of moses law,you know nothing about the law n yet you wanna teach it.i will use the same law u think you know to tear down all your judaistic teaching.just hold on for me in a while.am gonna reply you this first n then show u what u don't 'understand' in those verse,you just reading but your understand is null n void.

just when i thought of slowing down on my insult then you who think u are spiritual starts yours.can you see that flesh lives with all of us?allow the one you say is spiritual fool to take u up a little.i knew you empty n there's nothing good that comes out of judaizers like you.i had knew from the day one i came here pple like u are empty,just making noise n polluting the internet with nonsense talks.i told u to cool down n read that verses well n see what doctrine is taught there but your empty head can't bring out any spiritual doctrine from there n yet u think i don't hv nothing to say on those verse.verses 1-6 is a doctrine and verse 7 forward is another etc.the law is null n void n those verses n when u swallow your pride you will learn, not in the stupid way you doing it.

you are beggining to shift the goal post here.again, the new covenant is totally different from the old and the law is part of the old covenant that is done away with.stop jumping like a frog,dats y you often miss step by step explanation.

simply because you know nothing nor understand nothing about that verses and you just proved it.you're empty on what is being said there in romans 7:1-6.what exegesis can u then make of it?can you give what u don;t have?i just gave you an opportunity to do your exegesis nonsense but what did u come up with?outright nothing!complete emptiness!you should be ashamed of yourself Mr.Bidam.i won;t start my insult here again,i promise but now,i will start to tear your judaistic teaching down n expose your fraudulent ways.trust me.

Never mind!!"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

Bidam: Never mind!!"Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

what!it doesn't matter.it's too late for you.when i gave you the opportunity to teach the spiritual truth contain in a little verse.u fumbled and mess it all up.now sit,relax,read n enjoy the liberty in christ.the fact that u can't understand it doesn't mean pple have not gone ahead of you.i know u gone learn reading what i will teach in your secret heart but your pride will never let you say it is truth.i will post the explanation verse by verse thereafter.

Do you not know, brothers and sisters--for I am speaking to those who know the law--that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? Romans 7:1

Here in the 7th chapter,the apostle began to speak to 'those who know the law', in and out. To those who understand the law,the law of Moses or any kind of law that exist under heaven. If someone don't 'know' the mosaic law, such person will not understand what the apostle is teaching here.What is he teaching? The basis of this statement is further explained as a doctrine for both marriage to the church and it explains a spiritual doctrine of divorce from the law of moses. Whatever law that exist only has binding or authority over anyone as long as that person is alive. When that person dies, there is no law binding on that person no more for a dead person cannot respond or obey an existing law. That is the meaning of the phrase, "ONLY AS LONG AS THAT PERSON LIVES" The apostle would soon establish a spiritual doctrine to his audience, to those who know the law. Those who know and understand the law understand one thing and that is, the law is ONLY BINDING TO ANYONE AS LONG AS THAT PERSON LIVES. When the person is dead,there's no law to obey or respond to.

For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. Romans 7:2

What is the apostle teaching here using a natural law of marriage to convey a spiritual truth or doctrine? There is a legal binding by the law when a man and woman are married but when one died, the other is free and released from that binding of marriage law and free to marry another. These is true in marriage law. Now, flip the other side of the coin and let's reveal the spiritual doctrine here. Regarding divorce, the Holy Scriptures teach that marriage is dissolved: (1) by death; (2) by adultery; and (3) by desertion, the latter not being strictly considered as ANOTHER ground beyond that given by Christ, but rather as prima facie evidence of the existence of ground (2), that of adultery.

Bearing in mind Paul's purpose in this paragraph of showing that Christians are no longer under Moses' law, the thrust of his words is simple and dramatic. In the Old Testament, God represented himself as being a husband to Israel and the relationship between them and God as a marriage contract or covenant.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. Jeremiah 31:32

Also, Israel under the marriage contract with the LORD which they are bonded by the law of Moses under that contract or agreement had also committed adultery (Isaiah 57:3; Jeremiah 3:8, Hosea 4:15 etc) and hereby giving the ground for the LORD to terminate and dissolve the marriage with them according to the words of Christ. Therefore, you will hear Christ call them 'adulterous generation' Matthew 16:4.

BUT IF HER HUSBAND DIES, SHE IS RELEASED FROM THE LAW THAT BINDS HER TO HIM(in the marriage contract or covenant).
Anytime you read 'but' in the word, it means, flip to the other side of the coin for there're always two sides. That marriage contract or covenant is no longer in force, for God died to Israel in the person of his Son upon Calvary! That nullified the relationship between God and Israel. Thus, God is represented as a husband whose death has broken the ties (law) that bound him to the wife Israel, not merely leaving Israel free to be united to another (Christ), but also leaving the old ties (the law of Moses, etc.) without any meaning or validity at all!

So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. Romans 7:3

Why would Christ call them 'adulterous generation' under the law; Matthew 16:4? Because their husband is not dead yet and they are gone adultery. On that ground, their husband can divorce them but because their husband loves them so much, he would always forgive their adulterous act until their husband finally dies to terminate the marriage covenant under the law that binds them. The metaphoric meaning of adultery as the intimate alliance of God with the people of Israel in a marriage in which Israel went into idolatry and are said to commit adultery or play the harlot; and said to be unfaithful to God, unclean and apostate.

Again, it was repeated by the apostle that BUT IF HER HUSBAND DIES, SHE IS RELEASED FROM THE LAW AND IS NOT AN ADULTERESS IF SHE MARRIES ANOTHER MAN.God is the one that holds the law and knows how to terminate it. Paul could have selected other grounds for affirming that God had DISannulled the marriage contract with Israel, such as Israel's wanton disobedience and unfaithfulness but Paul's choice of the astounding fact of God's death in the person of his Son was a far more appropriate expression of the absolute termination that had fallen upon Judaism.

Israel's wanton rebellion against God had come at last to full fruit when Christ himself was slain by them; and therefore, as far as the whole system of Judaism is concerned, it has exactly the same status as a marriage contract after the husband's funeral. Christ as God risen from the dead is married to another, the new bride being his church (Ephesians 5:22-33); and what a preposterous thing it would be to suppose that the new wife should abide by the terms of the marriage contract of the old wife. Devastatingly, Paul removed all grounds upon which the Judaizing teachers in the church might seek to impose portions of the law upon Christians.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. Romans 7:4

you also died to the law through the body of Christ
This is the whole purpose of the statement of verse one and the analogy of verses two and three. To those who know the law he was talking to. That when Christ died (through the body of Christ), you also died to the law. Only by death can you be free from the law that is binding on you and you have died to the law, not responsive nor alive to it. The body of Christ represent Christ according to the flesh and the risen Christ is the another to which the church is married to to(that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead). There's a new marriage right there says the apostle.

Thus, it was the annulment of God's marriage contract with Israel through the death of Christ that abrogated and terminated that entire system, finally and irrevocably. The "Jews were put to death by the body of Christ"; and, from this, he reasoned that the Jews were free of the law of Moses because of their own death through the body of Christ.

The death of Christ (God come in the flesh) meant that all things whatsoever that pertained to God's relationship with Israel (viewed scripturally as a marriage contract), including the law of Moses, circumcision, the sacrifices, and the whole theocratic system perished on the cross of Jesus and were buried in the new tomb of Joseph of Arimathea; and don't forget to include the sabbath day in all that. Thus, not even Israel, much less Christians, had any further spiritual benefit to be procured through keeping the religious regulations of the Old Testament. God was free of all prior obligations resulting from the covenants with Israel, free to be married to another, to the church as the new wife; but this meant that Israel was also free of any further obligation or benefit in the law.

Paul thus drew the conclusion from the premises stated above. In the relationship of the new institution, which is the church or bride of Christ, to God, it was utterly incongruous to suppose that any of that old system pertained to the new relationship, especially in view of the total rejection of Christ by the old institution. Christians, whether of Jewish or Gentile descent, had nothing, either of benefit or blessing, in the old system. For Jewish Christians, Christ died to annul their old contract with God; thus they were free to be united with Christ as a portion of his bride the church, this being the import of the words, "that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God." Bear which fruit, in every marriage, there is expected for the wife(the church as the new wife now) to bear children which the bible often refer to as fruit. In this spiritual truth, that we might bear fruit of the Spirit as stated in Galatians. That why you read, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness...Against such things there is no law". Galatians 5:22-23 Notice, the faithfulness which Israel was UNfaithful to the old husband that died...against such there is no law.

For Gentile Christians, their freedom from the old system was also complete. Not only had it never applied to them; but additionally, the law was made repugnant to them because under the law, Christ himself was made a curse (Deuteronomy 21:23); and the epic fact of Jesus' suffering "without the gate" (Hebrews 13:12) symbolized the total dissociation of Jesus Christ together with all spiritual blessings in him from everything connected with the law of Moses. How utterly unthinkable it was that true believers in Christ should have any regard for a system that crucified him, making him a curse, and casting him without the camp and beyond the pale! The most astounding failure of the law of Moses was seen in that very thing, that at last it cast forth upon what amounted to the city dump, the holy Christ himself, thus finalizing and sealing forever the utmost incompatibility between the law and Jesus Christ.

By definition, to be "in Christ" is to be absolutely beyond and apart from the law of Moses and everything in it. Christians, all of them, Jewish and Gentile, are recipients of unbounded freedom in Christ who rose from the dead, to bring forth fruits of righteousness in him.

For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. Romans 7:5

Under the law, all fruits that was bore always died, they are never alive. Imagine a woman always pregnant and everytime she goes to the labour room, her child always dies. That is what the law produced! The inability of the Mosaic system to give the worshiper any valid victory over sin was due: (1) to the fact that no forgiveness was possible, it was the law of sin and get death or die or be stoned to death (2) that there was no impartation of the Holy Spirit, and (3) that there was utterly no justification in the keeping of its precepts. No wonder that Peter referred to it as a yoke.

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6

But now, by dying to what once bound us
The apostle draws a conclusion on the marriage contract here, BUT NOW and by dying to what (the law) that ONCE bound us to the marriage covenant (by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, Romans 7:2); we are NOW release, set free FROM THE LAW under the Mosaic system so we can serve in the new way of the Spirit of God AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY (the old marriage covenant). And yet, some Judaizers wants to mix the old ways with the new ways of serving the LORD.


we have been released from the law...shows that Paul was here identifying himself as a former disciple of the law, thus including himself with the Jewish Christians to whom he addressed this appeal. Newness of the spirit ... oldness of the letter ... These phrases refer to the life "in Christ Jesus" on the one hand, and to life under Moses' law on the other. "Oldness of the letter" is a reference to exactly the same thing that that was signified by the use of "in the flesh" in the preceding verse. Christians (Jews and Gentiles both) are completely free from the the law of Moses that once or used to hold the marriage covenant between God and his people only we do not use our freedom to satisfy the old flesh or old nature of sin desire.

JesusisLord85:

I used to listen to charles Stanley and I believed that teaching. It is the reason why you can walk into many churches and see that it is nothing more than a socal club. I was so comfortable in my sin back then.
Then I picked up my bible and started reading in January this year, and the spirit ministered. Praise God for the truth. I am not in bondage like they suggest.If anything, I feel liberated

Wow just skimming through and i realized i did not reply this post,i feel you bro..so many cheap gospel of grace and lawlessness have been going on in Christianity that it saddens Jesus Christ the High priest who paid the penalty of our sins. These people always have this erroneous misconception that obeying God is legalism,they fail to see that obeying God through the revelation of Jesus Christ actually produce the Joy of the Lord if you re genuinely saved.God never changed His laws, i laff when shdemidemi was making an analogy of natural laws which are constant. He failed to realise that spiritual laws are also constant, they can never be changed,It is just like saying LOVE can be changed, my question is to what? hate? God forbid! Unfortunately, millions choose to believe the numerous “holier than thou” experts who twist and distort Paul’s Thus, they fulfill Isaiah’s prophecy: “Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!... Who justify the wicked for a bribe, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!” (Isa. 5:21, 23). I think the way of wisdom is to shake the dust off my feet and leave the thread. I noticed the thread has been adjusted to suit their erroneous doctrines,for someone to open his mouth and utter a blasphemous statement that the book of romans alone has destroyed what God has spoken in times past through the prophets and now speaks through His Son Jesus Christ is scary. I shuddered at how the devil could use people to utter such blasphemy.Anyway my job is to pray for such a one cos he needs help and needs to be delivered fast with utmost urgency.I'd rather follow and believe the words of the master who said “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until the heaven and the earth shall pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from the Law until everything has been fulfilled” (Matt. 5:17-18). than to follow these erroneous,twisting, misinterpretation and misrepresentation of paul's letters,seeing that they conveniently failed to address my post and are following their own paths.

I was reading my bible and i came across this beautiful words of Jesus and i said God you are awesome,let me share the revelation i got so you will be blessed. Christ continued from the Matt i quoted earlier: “For I say to you, unless your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, there is no way that you shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Matt.5:20). Jesus’ statement here is enigmatic to say the least, since the scribes and Pharisees were well known for their “righteousness.” In-deed, how could one’s righteousness exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees? The answer to this question is found in how Christ “fulfilled”the Law (Matt. 5:17). To “fulfill” means “to fill to the full” or “tomake complete.” That is quite the opposite of abolishing the Law.
Indeed, Jesus “fulfilled” the Law by revealing its spiritual meaning and application in human behavior—in how humans relate to one another and to God the Father and Jesus Christ. The scribes and Pharisees thought they were quite adept at keeping the letter of the Law—but in their corrupt hypocrisy they completely missed the spirit and intent of the Law.

Indeed the 4 synoptic Gospels reveal that Jesus focused on the spirit of the law throughout His ministry. As evidenced in Matthew 5-7, Jesus specifically established this new spiritual standard of the application of the spirit of the Law for New Testament Christians, as compared to the letter of the Law required under the Old Testament.
Two examples i read are sufficient to show how Jesus “fulfilled”the Law by revealing its deep spiritual meaning: “You have heard that it was said to those in ancient times, ‘You shall not commit murder; but whoever commits murder shall be subject to judgment.’ But I say to you, everyone who is angry with his brother without cause shall be subject to judgment. Now you have heard it said, ‘Whoever shall say to his brother, “Raca,” shall be subject to
the judgment of the council.But I say to you, whoever shall say, ‘You fool,’ shall be subject to the fire of Gehenna” (Matt. 5:21-22).“You have heard that it was said to those in ancient times, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you, everyone who looks upon a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart” (Matt.5:27-28).

These examples i saw in scriptures clearly shows the spiritual application of the laws and commandments of God as taught by Jesus Christ and found throughout the New Testament.Do you know i repented of calling a brother a fool when i saw these scriptures again?Lol.


Over ten years after Jesus’ death and resurrection, the apostle James, the “brother of the Lord,” defined the true Christian approach to the Law of God, which he calls the “Royal Law.” Notice how his writings agree exactly with Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 5-7: “If you are truly keeping the Royal Law according to the scripture, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself,’ you are doing well. But if you have respect of persons, you are practicing sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors;for if anyone keeps the whole law, but sins in one aspect, he becomes guilty of all
.“For He Who said, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ also said,‘You shall not commit murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery,but you commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. In this manner speak and in this manner behave: as those who are about to be judged by the law of freedom” (James 2:8-12).
. These scriptures are so simple, easy to read and follow,that i really wonder why our brothers are missing it.

^^^ Thank you for this submission Bidam. As a "Catholic apologist" as dear shdemidemi called me, the key word shouting all over your post is Love(Agape). This is what Christ meant to knock into the skull of the "letter of the law righteous" pharisees. " You must love God above all things" he said. And else where, to His disciples: "A new commandment I give to you, Love one another" John13:34-35.

God does not count-us-as-righteous-even-though-internally-we-are-unrighteous; by infusing grace and agape into our hearts at the moment of regeneration He instantly makes us righteous. God does not count (or impute) our sins against us (Rom4:8 ), not by leaving us with a wicked sinful heart and merely overlooking our sins, but by mercifully transforming our heart through the infusion of sanctifying grace and agape such that there is no mortal sin to overlook. The person with agape in his heart is in friendship with God, and thus is righteous before God. When Abraham chose to believe God’s promise (Rom 4:3), this act not only showed that Abraham had a faith working through agape and thus was in friendship with God, but it also deepened that friendship, and so God counted it to him as righteousness. Agape fulfills the law (Rom 10:8-10), because agape is the spirit of the law. Without agape, no one is righteous in His sight. But through Christ agape is poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5). By this agape in our hearts, we walk in newness of life; this infused grace and agape produces the “obedience of faith” of which St. Paul speaks (Rom 1:5, 16:26). This infused grace and agape is the gift of righteousness (Rom 5:17) by which we have been “freed from sin and made slaves of righteousness” (Rom 6:18,22). By this gift we are made “doers of the Law” (Rom 2:13), such that the requirement of the Law is “fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit,” (Rom 8:4). By this gift we subject ourselves to the law of God (Rom 8:7). By this gift of infused sanctifying grace and agape, our spirit is made alive (Rom 8:10) and the law is written on our hearts (cf. Rom 2:28-29), truly in our hearts (Rom 10:8, 10), as the prophet Jeremiah prophesied long ago concerning the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33-34). So according to the Catholic doctrine regarding law and grace, by the infusion of sanctifying grace we receive the gift of agape by which we truly fulfill the law. Here, grace and law are not mutually exclusive; grace orients us to God in divine love such that we fulfill the law, and are truly justified in our hearts.

Syncan: ^^^ Thank you for this submission Bidam. As a "Catholic apologist" as dear shdemidemi called me, the key word shouting all over your post is Love(Agape). This is what Christ meant to knock into the skull of the "letter of the law righteous" pharisees. " You must love God above all things" he said. And else where, to His disciples: "A new commandment I give to you, Love one another" John13:34-35.

God does not count-us-as-righteous-even-though-internally-we-are-unrighteous; by infusing grace and agape into our hearts at the moment of regeneration He instantly makes us righteous. God does not count (or impute) our sins against us (Rom4:8 ), not by leaving us with a wicked sinful heart and merely overlooking our sins, but by mercifully transforming our heart through the infusion of sanctifying grace and agape such that there is no mortal sin to overlook. The person with agape in his heart is in friendship with God, and thus is righteous before God. When Abraham chose to believe God’s promise (Rom 4:3), this act not only showed that Abraham had a faith working through agape and thus was in friendship with God, but it also deepened that friendship, and so God counted it to him as righteousness. Agape fulfills the law (Rom 10:8-10), because agape is the spirit of the law. Without agape, no one is righteous in His sight. But through Christ agape is poured out into our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Rom 5:5). By this agape in our hearts, we walk in newness of life; this infused grace and agape produces the “obedience of faith” of which St. Paul speaks (Rom 1:5, 16:26). This infused grace and agape is the gift of righteousness (Rom 5:17) by which we have been “freed from sin and made slaves of righteousness” (Rom 6:18,22). By this gift we are made “doers of the Law” (Rom 2:13), such that the requirement of the Law is “fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit,” (Rom 8:4). By this gift we subject ourselves to the law of God (Rom 8:7). By this gift of infused sanctifying grace and agape, our spirit is made alive (Rom 8:10) and the law is written on our hearts (cf. Rom 2:28-29), truly in our hearts (Rom 10:8, 10), as the prophet Jeremiah prophesied long ago concerning the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33-34). So according to the Catholic doctrine regarding law and grace, by the infusion of sanctifying grace we receive the gift of agape by which we truly fulfill the law. Here, grace and law are not mutually exclusive; grace orients us to God in divine love such that we fulfill the law, and are truly justified in our hearts.

God bless you my bro..Do you know that there are times when God will tell you sit down here,go to china and preach the gospel,minister to this brother because he needs to be saved.All this emanates from the heart where the spirit of the law resides.For to him that knows what to do and does not do it to him it is sin. Love is the fulfillment of the law, we obey God because we love Him. Paul loves the lord and that was why he told king Agrippa that i was not disobedient to the heavenly vision.We really need to set our priorities right o.