Evening peeps,

First of, I am a Christian and I believe firmly that homosexuality is wrong in its entirety...

Having said that, I believe firmly that some persons who have this intimate orientation will also find their way into God's kingdom...

I know the subject of ones intimate orientation is a touchy one for most Christians (if not all), and it is strongly frowned against in sacred scriptures, to the extent that St. Paul explicitly reveals that 'they' will NOT make heaven...or did he now?

Having had cause to reflect on the words of Paul and matching this against the justice and mercy of God, I have reasons to believe that God's word as revealed by the spirit through Paul is taken out of context...

Whether we like it or not, there is evidence to suggest that homosexuality predates sacred scriptures. The act was practiced by many who had no knowledge of God or of Christ. I am of the opinion that a number of those who practiced it then believed that the act does not negate their sense of morality as it was seen in their time...

Taken this as a given, it can be said that some gay persons practised homosexuality with the purity of intention without knowing any better...it would hence be absurd to hold such persons responsible for any wrong act with respect to homosexuality...

As it stands today there are persons who are unaware of God as seen in the light of Christianity and for some of those persons, being gay is as natural as it comes...

I believe firmly that God will NEVER turn his 'back' on them as long as they are sincere in their resolve and do what is right in line with the dictates of 'good' conscience.

striktlymi:

I believe firmly that God will NEVER turn his 'back' on them as long as they are sincere in their resolve and do what is right in line with the dictates of 'good' conscience.

He better not. For his own sake.

Alfa Seltzer:

He better not. For his own sake.

Omg

I believe firmly that God will NEVER turn his 'back' on them as long as they are sincere in their resolve and do what is right in line with the dictates of 'good' conscience.

Papal didn't teach us this oooo

@stryk:

Is sin 'permissible' as long as it's done in ignorance?

Would fornicators also 'make heaven' if they do so in ignorance?

k2039: Papal didn't teach us this oooo

It is not against any teaching of the catholic church.

musKeeto: @stryk:

Is sin 'permissible' as long as it's done in ignorance?

Would fornicators also 'make heaven' if they do so in ignorance?

Sin is never permissible! Sin is always wrong irrespective of who commits it or whether it is done in ignorance or not; but not every sin one commits would merit eternal damnation...there are some factors to consider.

If one commits fornication without knowing any better, then the individual can be excused, if and only if, the individual is sincere. The sincerity of each person can only be determined by that individual and God.

striktlymi:

It is not against any teaching of the catholic church.

Putting a call across to Vatican city.

k2039: Putting a call across to Vatican city.

Lol!!!

Please do!

striktlymi: Evening peeps,

First of, I am a Christian and I believe firmly that homosexuality is wrong in its entirety...

Haven said that, I believe firmly that some persons who have this intimate orientation will also find their way into God's kingdom...

I know the subject of ones intimate orientation is a touchy one for most Christians (if not all), and it is strongly frowned against in sacred scriptures, to the extent that St. Paul explicitly reveals that 'they' will NOT make heaven...or did he now?

Haven had cause to reflect on the words of Paul and matching this against the justice and mercy of God, I have reasons to believe that God's word as revealed by the spirit through Paul is taken out of context...

Whether we like it or not, there is evidence to suggests that homosexuality predates sacred scriptures. The act was practiced by many who had no knowledge of God or of Christ. I am of the opinion that a number of those who practiced it then believed that what they are doing does not negate their sense of morality as it was seen in their time...

Taken this as a given, it can be said that some gay persons practised homosexuality with the purity of intention without knowing any better...it would hence be absurd to hold such persons responsible for any wrong act with respect to homosexuality...

As it stands today there are persons who are unaware of God as seen in the light of Christianity and for some of those persons, being gay is as natural as it comes...

I believe firmly that God will NEVER turn his 'back' on them as long as they are sincere in their resolve and do what is right in line with the dictates of 'good' conscience.

pls stop calling yourself christian because i did not see christianity in your words.

You call yourself christian but your words lack spcriptural proof or are there any biblical verses to back your words?Your sentiment can not be taken to be genuine words. What you wrote up there can hinder someone to repent from their evils way

^^^homosexuality is not evil.

if the homosexuals cant make heaven, no one can.

Urrrrrrmmm, biko are you in any way trying to say kudos to homosexuals, asin encouraging them? Telling them do more, intact win more souls, what you guys are doing is ok by God? ILaugh!!! May God have mercy....Amen somebody.

Ayomivic:

pls stop calling yourself christian because i did not see christianity in your words.

You call yourself christian but your words lack spcriptural proof or are there any biblical verses to back your words?Your sentiment can not be taken to be genuine words. What you wrote up there can hinder someone to repent from their evils way

Morning Ayo,

First of, if I were to go with my sentiments, I would have held the belief that every gay person will NEVER enter heaven...that would be me applying my sentiments without much thought...

I have always maintained that understanding of sacred scriptures is very key...it is not just about reading or hearing the words but also about looking at the underlying implication of what Jesus is saying.

When Christ made this comment:


Matthew 21:31
New International Version (NIV)

31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”

“The first,” they answered.

Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Instead of some persons to try and understand what he was saying, they decided to take it the way they wanted and the following mindset was prevalent:


Luke 7:34
New International Version (NIV)

34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’

When Christ said those words, he was seen as one who encouraged people to remain sinful, hence the tag 'friend of sinners' but in truth, Christ revealed what a number of Jews NEVER wanted to accept...and that is sharing God's kingdom with anyone they see as a sinner...

In the first passage of sacred scriptures I quoted, the individual that decided to help the man who was attacked was a Samaritan...Jews do not interract with Samaritans, otherwise they would be made unclean, according to their beliefs...

A jew typically see a Samaritan as one who is possessed by demons, hence this comment directed at Jesus:


John 8:48
New International Version (NIV)

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

But despite this negative mindset against the Samaritans, Jesus still chose to use a Samaritan to illustrate his point about what is necessary to enter heaven...Love of neighbour and of God...if one loves his neighbour, the person automatically loves God, even when he does not know it and vise versa...

God only demands that each man does what is right in accordance with his state in life...a Muslim can make heaven if he does what is right and has a profound love for God in line with the dictate of Good conscience...

Christ made it explicit that he has some other sheep who are not part of his known flock and that they would listen to him whenever he calls (John 10:16)...those people need not be Christians...those people can be pagans...those people can be Atheists...those people can also be Gay, if only they do not know any better...

One can argue that the Goodnews has almost reached the ends of the Earth, but the truth is, the Goodnews has been distorted so much that some members of this unknown flock of Christ are finding it impossible to know what the Goodnews is and be convinced by it...

Smartie gurl: Urrrrrrmmm, biko are you in any way trying to say kudos to homosexuals, asin encouraging them? Telling them do more, intact win more souls, what you guys are doing is ok by God? ILaugh!!! May God have mercy....Amen somebody.

Hey Smartie,

Is that what you understood in my post? Or that is just what you want to believe I am saying?

ooman: ^^^homosexuality is not evil.

if the homosexuals cant make heaven, no one can.

See this man!

Where you go hide?

Homosexuality in itself is wrong, though I don't expect you to see this since you are having a hard time believing in any deity...

Homosexuals are not necessarily evil people...the fact that I consider the act to be an anormaly does not in any way suggests that those who practice it are evil.

Though some homosexuals can be evil just like some heterosexuals can also be evil...

Alfa Seltzer:

He better not. For his own sake.

Lmao!!!

striktlymi:

See this man!

Where you go hide?

Homosexuality in itself is wrong, though I don't expect you to see this since you are having a hard time believing in any deity...

Homosexuals are not necessarily evil people...the fact that I consider the act to be an anormaly does not in any way suggests that those who practice it are evil.

Though some homosexuals can be evil just like some heterosexuals can also be evil...

I 've been checking out Programming section..

Homosexuality is wrong because of what? Because you said so? And am supposed to take that for old time's sake?? I doubt that.

I see absolutely nothing wrong or evil in it, the act itself hurts no one and gives pleasure to its lovers, so which one be your own?

Subtract God from your life and you will see clearly.

Alfa Seltzer:

He better not. For his own sake.

I get the joke... That's hilarious.

ooman:

I 've been checking out Programming section..

Oh...cool! At least there would be less conflicts there and a bit of 'sanity'.

ooman:
Homosexuality is wrong because of what? Because you said so? And am supposed to take that for old time's sake?? I doubt that.

Lol!!!

It has little to do with what I say actually...whatever God say is wrong, is definitely wrong in my books...

ooman:
I see absolutely nothing wrong or evil in it, the act itself hurts no one and gives pleasure to its lovers, so which one be your own?

Hmmm...yes, I agree that the act in itself does not cause physical harm to those who engage in it but considering that I believe in the metaphysical...the damage done to ones spirit is immense...

ooman:
Subtract God from your life and you will see clearly.

The reason why I see at all is because God is in my life...if I subtract him from my life, then I will be in total darkness...

Ignorance is not an excuse for the Bible has made us know that every sinner must receive a stroke but he who know the implication of something and still goes ahead to do it receive even more.

D-mouthed:
Ignorance is not an excuse for the Bible has made us know that every sinner must receive a stroke but he who know the implication of something and still goes ahead to do it receive even more.

Hey mouthed,

Sorry to say but your post above suggests that ignorance is indeed an excuse.

striktlymi:

Oh...cool! At least there would be less conflicts there and a bit of 'sanity'.

what does this mean?

striktlymi:
Lol!!!

It has little to do with what I say actually...whatever God say is wrong, is definitely wrong in my books...

Hmmm...yes, I agree that the act in itself does not cause physical harm to those who engage in it but considering that I believe in the metaphysical...the damage done to ones spirit is immense...

The reason why I see at all is because God is in my life...if I subtract him from my life, then I will be in total darkness...

The reason why you think you see now is because you never saw. A blind man cannot miss the sight of beauty, he never experienced it. You never miss reason and logic because you never gave it a chance. You think you see, but you are indeed blind. For if you see, you'd know that physical actions shouldn't damage the spiritual even if spirits exist.

is the spirit dependent on the body or the body on the spirit. The spiritual position is always contradictory. If the body is dependent on the spirit, then no matter what the body does, the spirit remains clean.

striktlymi:

Hey Smartie,

Is that what you understood in my post? Or that is just what you want to believe I am saying?

that is what you are indirectly doing, because trying to say that homosexuals will/might make heaven will give them the guts to continue in their evil ways.....

ooman:

what does this mean?

Religion section can be chaotic sometimes...

ooman:
The reason why you think you see now is because you never saw. A blind man cannot miss the sight of beauty, he never experienced it. You never miss reason and logic because you never gave it a chance. You think you see, but you are indeed blind. For if you see, you'd know that physical actions shouldn't damage the spiritual even if spirits exist.

Lol!!!

I am pretty sure that you do not apply logic and reason any more than I do...

ooman:
is the spirit dependent on the body or the body on the spirit.

The body depends on the spirit!

ooman:
The spiritual position is always contradictory.

It is not!

ooman:
If the body is dependent on the spirit, then no matter what the body does, the spirit remains clean.

I agree with you on this to a large extent...even Christ agrees with you to some extent when he said:


Mark 7:18-19
New International Version (NIV)

18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.”

However, what makes a man and his spirit unclean has to do with those things that originates from within...the tendency to become homosexual is from within...if a man does not think it, then there is no doing it, other factors remaining equal.

Smartie gurl: that is what you are indirectly doing, because trying to say that homosexuals will/might make heaven will give them the guts to continue in their evil ways.....

Jesus said prostitutes will enter heaven...does this mean that he is encouraging them to continue in their ways?

Lololololol. Another Obadiah in the making.
The question you should digest before coming up with this is, is homosexuality a medical condition, as in, has it got anything to do with the cancellation of the activities of the positive and negative feedback mechanism in the human physiology and anatomy?
The essence is to understand whom to blame for their predicament. If biologically induced, then we have a case, but otherwise, their is nothing to discuss.

Hey Rey,

Reyginus: Lololololol. Another Obadiah in the making.

Lol!!!

As if Obadiah would come up with something like this...he most likely would call them "bunch of reprobates"...

Reyginus:
The question you should digest before coming up with this is, is homosexuality a medical condition, as in, has it got anything to do with the cancellation of the activities of the positive and negative feedback mechanism in the human physiogy and anatomy?
The essence is to understand whom to blame for their predicament. If biologically induced, then we have a case, but otherwise, their is nothing to discuss.

No!!!

This has little or nothing to do with biology or whether one is born with the tendency to be a homo or not...I do not believe anyone is born gay, even medical science CANNOT conclusively say that homosexuality amongst humans is a natural occurrence...

I believe firmly that every 'normal' human is born with the ability to desire and enjoy sex, other factors remaining equal...but the method each person adopts is subject to the decisions we make...

Humans are not slaves to their instincts unlike the lower animals. We can make calculative decisions as regards most things and especially on our choice of who or what we choose as the object of our intimate orientation...for some persons, they choose the opposite sex, some prefer same sex while others still, prefer any non-human objects, to include animals and other sex objects...

My approach to whether a gay person will make heaven or not goes beyond what biology will tell us...it is more about some other factors like the individuals upbringing, belief system etc as long as the individual sincerely does not know any better...

Very early in the 20th century, a female geneticist established homosexuality as genetic.

How many homosexuals have you met? How many have you directly ask about their sexual orientation? The answer is obviously none because if you've done this, you must have known that homosexuality is not by choice, its your person and its natural. Animals too engage in this. Most importantly, its harmless.

So keep your God to your self, if people are homosexual, then its the designer's fault.

ooman: Very early in the 20th century, a female geneticist established homosexuality as genetic.

Wow!!!

Now you have my undevided attention pappy...

Can you tell us who this lady is and how she established this as a SCIENTIFIC FACT.

Note: I will be disappointed if this turns out to be another theory or mere opinion!

ooman:
How many homosexuals have you met? How many have you directly ask about their sexual orientation? The answer is obviously none because if you've done this, you must have known that homosexuality is not by choice, its your person and its natural. Animals too engage in this. Most importantly, its harmless.

And you can tell whether I have met a gay person or not by just reading my post?...Very logical!!!

For the records: Not only have I met with some gay persons, I have friends who are gay...at least one has stopped the act.

ooman:
So keep your God to your self, if people are homosexual, then its the designer's fault.

No one is born gay!!!

striktlymi:

Wow!!!

Now you have my undevided attention pappy...

Can you tell us who this lady is and how she established this as a SCIENTIFIC FACT.

Note: I will be disappointed if this turns out to be another theory or mere opinion!



And you can tell whether I have met a gay person or not by just reading my post?...Very logical!!!

For the records: Not only have I met with some gay persons, I have friends who are gay...at least one has stopped the act.



No one is born gay!!!

for common sense sake, just look up "genetics of homosexuality" on google, you get over 1 million directories.

a note from wikipedia:A 2010 study of all adult twins
in Sweden (more than 7,600
twins) [9] found that same-sex
behavior was explained by both
heritable factors and individual-
specific environmental sources
(such as prenatal environment,
experience with illness and
trauma, as well as peer groups,
and sexual experiences), while
influences of shared-
environment variables such as
familial environment and
societal attitudes had a weaker,
but significant effect.




Some children as young as 5-7 years identify as gay in US. people are indeed born gay. What you believe doesn't matter.

You have gay friends and you still think the act is evil or bad or what do you think, I think you are just confused. If your god didn't create homosexuality, why does it exist? Since you believe everything was created by your god.

Give up this excuse, God is going extinct.

ooman:

for common sense sake, just look up "genetics of homosexuality" on google, you get over 1 million directories.

You mentioned a particular person and you want me to go through over a million directory in order to find your mystery lady?...I hear ya!

ooman:
a note from wikipedia:A 2010 study of all adult twins
in Sweden (more than 7,600
twins) [9] found that same-sex
behavior was explained by both
heritable factors and individual-
specific environmental sources
(such as prenatal environment,
experience with illness and
trauma, as well as peer groups,
and sexual experiences), while
influences of shared-
environment variables such as
familial environment and
societal attitudes had a weaker,
but significant effect.

Guy you don start o!

Is the above the scientific fact I asked you to provide?

Anyways, since you prefer wikipedia, this is what one of 'its articles' say on the matter:

wikipedia:
The relationship between biology and sexual orientation is a subject of research. A simple and singular determinant for sexual orientation has not been conclusively demonstrated—various studies point to different, even conflicting positions—but scientists therorize that a combination of genetic, hormonal and social factors determine sexual orientation.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation

ooman:
Some children as young as 5-7 years identify as gay in US. people are indeed born gay. What you believe doesn't matter.

Oh...if kids come out to identify with terrorists that implies they were born terrorists?

ooman:
You have gay friends and you still think the act is evil or bad or what do you think, I think you are just confused.

I also have friends who cheat on their wives and still I believe firmly that adultery is very wrong. I don't need to tell you that being friends with someone does not mean accepting or agreeing with whatever the individual does...heck you are my friend but still I believe you miss the mark with your no belief in God.

ooman:
If your god didn't create homosexuality, why does it exist? Since you believe everything was created by your god.

People choose to be homosexuals just like some persons choose to cheat on their wives or husbands...no one was born an adulterer and in the same way, no one was born gay.

ooman:
Give up this excuse, God is going extinct.

You wish!!!

You seem to have lost the topic here.

Adultery and infidelity hurts someone, homosexuality hurts no one, so why is it bad?

I think you've missed it too with your blind faith in a god which can't exist.

by your logic, people who identify as straight too aren't born straight, they chose to be. so by your dumb logic, since we all choose our orientation, I can choose to be bisex.ual.

process of purifying the homosexual gene is still at large, eluding us. but its been established its inherited, you read that right?