Proverbs 30: 4

Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
       Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?
       Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
       Who has established all the ends of the earth?
       What is his name, and the name of his son?
       Tell me if you know!


Psalm 2 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
   

Psalm 2
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

While some Jews deny His Messiaship, the above scriptures is a telling of the revelation of Jesus Christ, prior to His Incarnation in the New Testament. Glory Be to God in the Highest!, Amen.

“I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.”  Isaiah 48:16

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

This is our Lord Jesus Christ speaking in the Old Testament before His incarnation through the prophetic utterance of Isaiah.

Several passages talk about Jesus in the Old Testament. Isaiah does, Psalms does, Genesis does and a host of other passages in the Old Testament. It is well with us.

---

^{Jesus is Lord}

The Old Testament speaks of our Lord Jesus Christ not just literally but also in symbols, shadows, prophecy, poetry, history, foreshadowing, spiritually, anagogically, allegorically, prototypically and in every way that the scriptures can be properly understood.

We read the scriptures with Jesus, in Jesus, through Jesus and by Jesus Christ.  I will start from the beginning, in Genesis.

Gen.1:1  "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."  Compare that with John 1:1  "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
verses 2-3,14 goes on to tell us who that Word is, Who created the universe and the earth.  Eph.3:9; Col.1:15-18; Heb.1:1-2

Revelation knowledge show this Word to be Jesus Christ the Creator of heaven and earth.

Another instance was in the trinitarian conversation in Genesis 1:26  "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness;, "

The word God there in Hebrew was in a singular plural (Elohim) or uni-plural noun. Plural pronouns are used of God, proving pluraity of persons ie Gen.1:16; 3:22; 11:7; 19:24; Isaiah 6:8; 44:6,8; 45:5,21; 46:9; Hos.13:4;  Jn.14:23; 17:11,22-23;

"Let us make man in our image"   This conversation comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  So Jesus Christ the second Person in the Godhead before His incarnation was, is and is to come. Rev.22:13

Olaadegbu,
Thanks for the second inspirational verse from Isaiah 45:18. I did not know about that

@Ndipe:

Proverbs 30: 4

Who has gone up to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands?
Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and the name of his son?
Tell me if you know!


Psalm 2 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

Who is being described here, Ndipe? Afterall Jesus did not have any children or did he have a son? If you say that God is being described here, then you need to ask yourself when did God go up in heaven and when did He come down to earth after it?

The only one who had gone to heaven and came back in a part of a single Night was also a father. He was known as Abu Kassim (as). Do you know who this man was?

@Ndipe:

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

I could have responded to all the verses, but I kinda want you to take a serious look at begotten, which is the process of being used as the declaration of sonship here. Please give me the proper description of "begotten?" How do you beget a son, except through sexual intercourse? If this is not the action of God with Mary to produce Jesus, then that statement from the Bible is wrong. Is it not true that God is capable at all time to will a creation to existence, in any which way He desires? Is Jesus not a creation from God?

When I read verses 8 and the others after it, I do see a sign of agression, rather than the meek projections that the christians claim for their god Jesus.

@Olaadegbu;

“I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” Isaiah 45:18

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

This is our Lord Jesus Christ speaking in the Old Testament before His incarnation through the prophetic utterance of Isaiah.

How is Jesus both God, the Speaker according to you above, yet a separate God and the spirit of God sent him, all in one shot? Does this make any human sense to you since this is material for human consumption? This is another reason that trinity falls in its face! There is no way that God will talk to human beings in a way that will be mysterious that the ordinary hearts that is good can not understand it. God will never talk in mystery, which will allow the deviant to have a cause to plead against a possible punishment.

God says in the Q.ur'an that He took an oath from man, declaring that god is his Lord to worship. So God says that i took this oath so that you will not be able to deny that you aforetime did not accept my Lordship over you. It is therefore very easy to see in the Qu.r'an the power of God in His Oneness.

How can you Olaadegbu argue that a spirit that is separate from God is also God, except that is an Angel. And angel does not have the same authority as God, anyway. And why would the "Spirit of God" be separate and different from God anyhow? What am saying is this if you take the spirit of God, it will be God and not out as a separate God entity. Any spirit that is separate from God in the sense that you Christians understand it, that spirit is not God, but Angel, because it is Godly. And anyway, Angels were there as creation long time before Adam was created. Even jinn was there before Adam was created. And Adam was the first man, long before Jesus!

The Old Testament speaks of our Lord Jesus Christ not just literally but also in symbols, shadows, prophecy, poetry, history, foreshadowing, spiritually, anagogically, allegorically, prototypically and in every way that the scriptures can be properly understood.

We read the scriptures with Jesus, in Jesus, through Jesus and by Jesus Christ. I will start from the beginning, in Genesis.

Reading your above statement, one will almost believe that everything written in the OT (Again, I take the position the truth has been mared with others, and no one is even sure of exact "Truth", was talking about Jesus and nothing else. And you know that is completely false. Finally, if you read the scripture with Jesus, etc as stated above, I wonder how many versions, editions, revisions, Jesus is reading with the christians? All of the Bibles that were ever printed? What happens to future editions, versions, revisions? All of a sudden they will also be read by Jesus with the Christians reading them? My man, please this is something you should take into consideration. I know you love Jesus, but overblowing it is not good, either.

Gen.1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." Compare that with John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
verses 2-3,14 goes on to tell us who that Word is, Who created the universe and the earth. Eph.3:9; Col.1:15-18; Heb.1:1-2

Revelation knowledge show this Word to be Jesus Christ the Creator of heaven and earth.

Where will this exageration stop? Read this things above yourself. Please take yourself out of Biblical mindset. Substitute something else for the essence of the sentences. You will begin to ask yourself it each make any human sense. Please remember that this is a human issue. It must be dealt with from human perspective, only.

Another instance was in the trinitarian conversation in Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness;, "

You live in England. Please listen to Royal speech. If the Queen can use Plural for herself, I wonder why you are constriction God who created the Queen from her father and mother from being able to use that Royal plural for Himself?

The word God there in Hebrew was in a singular plural (Elohim) or uni-plural noun. Plural pronouns are used of God, proving pluraity of persons ie Gen.1:16; 3:22; 11:7; 19:24; Isaiah 6:8; 44:6,8; 45:5,21; 46:9; Hos.13:4; Jn.14:23; 17:11,22-23;

"Let us make man in our image" This conversation comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. So Jesus Christ the second Person in the Godhead before His incarnation was, is and is to come. Rev.22:13

How do you justify this absurd statement of Uni plural noun all of a sudden being a proof for plurality of person, whereby you could leap to that Trinity you are dishonestly presenting? You are a Yoruba man from your name. haven't you spoken to any Kingly person from Yorubaland? If I were home now, i will take you to Oba Sikiru Adetona, the Awujale of ijebu Ode. Or to King Olugbenga Sonuga of Remo. Or to the Ojomo of Owo. Each one of them will refer to himself alone in a uni plural noun, in public. Will this mean that they are also more than one or a trinity? Please my man, stop this thing that you just can't seem to explain rationally.

You live in England. Please listen to Royal speech. If the Queen can use Plural for herself, I wonder why you are constriction God who created the Queen from her father and mother from being able to use that Royal plural for Himself?


Ndipe's comment:

That you are even equating the Word of God with the speech of the monarch of England proves that there is really no point in debating with you.

@Ndipe: Ol boy, shouldn't God be able to use Plural for Himself if common Queen Elizabeth can use the same? Man, stop the fronting because you know the truth. If one is to have the right of honor of speech, between God and Common Queen Elizabeth, it is God. If Elzabeth can say plural now to dignify herself, know that God Almighty has that right long time before Elizabeth.

Even me, when I am in good mood, I use plural noun for myself, with my spouse. You see Ndipe, our wife knows that we are just talking about ourselves; Olabowale alone in this speech.

Ndipe:

Olaadegbu,
Thanks for the second inspirational verse from Isaiah 45:18. I did not know about that

This is a great thread, and I also thank God for your love for the truth, by God's grace I will dig a little deeper to discover the treasures embedded in the Truth book.

Ndipe:

Olaadegbu,
Thanks for the second inspirational verse from Isaiah 45:18. I did not know about that

I have just edited the correct verse which should be Isaiah 48:16 God bless you.

Malachi 3
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD,
whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant,
whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he
is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them
as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

Isaiah 61:1

"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;"

Who do you think is speaking here? Jesus Christ of course Luke 4:18

@Olaadegbu: Isiah 61.1 was a speech from Prophet Isiah. The One who was the Original speaker was Isiah.
Jesus simple read it in Luke 4:18. Hardly can you or anyone make him the speaker of verses of the Old testament. You can only do that if you can provide evidence that Jesus was Isiah all the while.

@olabowale,

@Olaadegbu: Isiah 61.1 was a speech from Prophet Isiah. The One who was the Original speaker was Isiah.
Jesus simple read it in Luke 4:18. Hardly can you or anyone make him the speaker of verses of the Old testament. You can only do that if you can provide evidence that Jesus was Isiah all the while.

You have come again with your uni-directional interpretation of the Bible that is devoid of any scintilla of revelation. Let me respond to your statement with a like statement.

David wrote the following in the Psalms using the same personal pronoun "I" like Isaiah did - Psalm 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.   So tell us, was David talking about Himself or someone else? So who do you think he was refering to?

@Tayo-D,

Tayo-D:

@olabowale,
You have come again with your uni-directional interpretation of the Bible that is devoid of any scintilla of revelation. Let me respond to your statement with a like statement.

David wrote the following in the Psalms using the same personal pronoun "I" like Isaiah did - Psalm 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. 18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.   So tell us, was David talking about Himself or someone else? So who do you think he was refering to?

Thanks for your timely response.  I have been pleading with them to put off their opaque goggles through which they use to interprete the inspired Word of God, so that they will be able to see the light of the glorious gospel.  I believe they need more prayers to receive revelation knowledge.

@topic,

Here's a conversation between the Father and the Son that David captured and penned in the Psalms

Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

@Olaadegbu: If you post a verse, then watch me skew it, with or without the opague glasses. I simply ask you to post it. Again, I ask you did God Almighty called Jesus, God, at anytime, at any place in your Bible?

@olabowale,

@Olaadegbu: If you post a verse, then watch me skew it, with or without the opague glasses. I simply ask you to post it. Again, I ask you did God Almighty called Jesus, God, at anytime, at any place in your Bible?

While you have suddenly dissaperaed from this topic when I answered your previous entry, you suddenly re-appeared with another statment whose answer is staring you in the face as revelaed in psalm 45 already quoted above. Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Tayo-D:

@olabowale,
While you have suddenly dissaperaed from this topic when I answered your previous entry, you suddenly re-appeared with another statment whose answer is staring you in the face as revelaed in psalm 45 already quoted above. Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Baba olabowale, how you dey? This is another proof that Jesus Christ is God. He is here depicted as one of the three divine Persons in the trinity. What saith thou?