Tgirl4real: Sire,

U are quoting Kenyon, father of msyticism! Lol

The sinless blood that was shed on calvary is the sacrifice that atoned for our sins. His resurrection is the victory - he conquered death.

I am on the road, will be back.

am not quoting kenyon. Even if i am, hes quoting Gods word. Im okay with that. Kenyon knew Gods power, something the early church knew, and the current church seems to have forgotten. I adjure you to get that book and have that study ma'am. Once power is taken from christianity, it becomes a dead religion that cant change lives.

Or, are u saying hell fire is in the heart of d earth?

What about principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness?

Let's try and reason for a moment and not just download what u have been taught.

Tgirl4real: @Bidam, aside from 1Peter 3, that I haven't looked into, the others are talking about the grave - where people go(bury) when they die.

hell is the grave?

Tgirl4real: Or, are u saying hell fire is in the heart of d earth?

What about principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness?

Let's try and reason for a movement and not just download what u have been taught.

see what i said. You dont just reason the scriptures ma'am, you are taught the scriptures by the holy spirit in your spirit.

Tgirl4real: Or, are u saying hell fire is in the heart of d earth?

What about principalities, powers, spiritual wickedness?

Let's try and reason for a movement and not just download what u have been taught.

no, i'm not saying that hell is literally under the earth, just as i am not saying that heaven is in the upper atmosphere of the earth.

Tgirl4real: @Bidam, aside from 1Peter 3, that I haven't looked into, the others are talking about the grave - where people go(bury) when they die.

The reason why i quoted these scriptures is because scriptures interpret scriptures,try and do more studies on these telling us the difference between hades/sheol/grave/earth from the original greek translations.

Chibuebem: hell is the grave?

Yes!

"Hell" is sometimes used as "hades" - a place for departed souls.

Have you seen this thread by Frosbel?

https://www.nairaland.com/1362795/go-heaven-when-die

Chibuebem: see what i said. You dont just reason the scriptures ma'am, you are taught the scriptures by the holy spirit in your spirit.

No one is disputing that. God also gave us brains to think... The bible was written in the tongues of men and not of angels.

Reason!!!

Bidam: The reason why i quoted these scriptures is because scriptures interpret scriptures,try and do more studies on these telling us the difference between hades/sheol/grave/earth from the original greek translations.

I see Frosbel around the corner, he should be able to help us out.

Tgirl4real:

I see Frosbel around the corner, he should be able to help us out.

I will address bidam later today , he once insinuated that the resurrection was a mere formality , since the saints are already with Jesus. He is as close to false doctrine as it gets , lol.

frosbel:


I will address bidam later today , he once insinuated that the resurrection was a mere formality , since the saints are already with Jesus. He is as close to false doctrine as it gets , lol.

Ok,if you insist i said so .Who is more false? You who deny the deity of Christ ? or me who believes that Jesus is the resurrection and the life.

Bidam: This is not about word of faith or whateva,it's about literal interpretation of scriptures.No prophecy of scriptures is of private interpretation.Could you please explain the following scriptures for us in their context? Thanks.
1 Peter 3:19-20: "He went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water." NIV

As a resurrected spirit, Jesus preached a condemnatory message to the wicked spirits in prison, demons reserved in eternal bonds for the judgment of God's great day. There will be no salvation for demons, hence, Jesus' preaching was not message of repentance and salvation, but that of adverse judgement that await them.

Acts 2:31
31. He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." -Acts 2:31 (KJV)

"he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption". -Acts 2:31 (NKJV)

"David knew this would happen, and so he told us Christ would be raised to life. He said God would not leave him in the grave or let his body decay". - Acts 2:31 Contemporary English Version (CEV)

"David saw what God was going to do in the future, and so he spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah when he said, ‘He was not abandoned in the world of the dead; his body did not rot in the grave.’ -Acts 2:31 (GNT)

Hell = Hades = Grave (the world of the dead)

Ephesians 4:8-10
8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

As a conqueror, Jesus carried away captives, that is, took men away from Satan's control. He imparted spiritual gifts to them for the building up of the Christian congregation. This fulfilled prophecy at Ps 68:18.

9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

Before Jesus ascended he first discended into Hell/Hades/Grave - the lower part of the earth. His resurrection, or ascension from the grave was a victory over death.

10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

The same Jesus that died and was buried is he that "ascended up far above all heavens" - all other heavenly creatures - Ph 2:5-11... a reward from his Father for his obedience and humility.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Jesus died and was buried in the Grave/Hades/Hell/ ... remained in the "belly" of the earth for three days. Jonah described Whale's belly as Sheol/Hell/Grave. - Jonah 2:2 ... thus, Jesus was in the grave for three days.

Freksy:

As a resurrected spirit, Jesus preached a condemnatory message to the wicked spirits in prison, demons reserved in eternal bonds for the judgment of God's great day. There will be no salvation for demons, hence, Jesus' preaching was not message of repentance and salvation, but that of adverse judgement that await them.



"He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption." -Acts 2:31 (KJV)

"he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption". -Acts 2:31 (NKJV)

"David knew this would happen, and so he told us Christ would be raised to life. He said God would not leave him in the grave or let his body decay". - Acts 2:31 Contemporary English Version (CEV)

"David saw what God was going to do in the future, and so he spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah when he said, ‘He was not abandoned in the world of the dead; his body did not rot in the grave.’ -Acts 2:31 (GNT)

Hell = Hades = Grave (the world of the dead)


As a conqueror, Jesus carried away captives, that is, took men away from Satan's control. He imparted spiritual gifts to them for the building up of the Christian congregation. This fulfilled prophecy at Ps 68:18.


Before Jesus ascended he first discended into Hell/Hades/Grave - the lower part of the earth. His resurrection, or ascension from the grave was a victory over death.


The same Jesus that died and was buried is he that "ascended up far above all heavens" - all other heavenly creatures - Ph 2:5-11... a reward from his Father for his obedience and humility.



Jesus died and was buried in the Grave/Hades/Hell/ ... remained in the "belly" of the earth for three days. Jonah described Whale's belly as Sheol/Hell/Grave. - Jonah 2:2 ... thus, Jesus was in the grave for three days.

why would jesus preach a condemnatory message to spirits in prison Nawa o. Thats entirely out of context. He didnt preach to demon spirits, he preached to those who were disobedient in noahs time and who perished in the flood.

Chibuebem: why would jesus preach a condemnatory message to spirits in prison Nawa o. Thats entirely out of context. He didnt preach to demon spirits, he preached to those who were disobedient in noahs time and who perished in the flood.

I was gonna point that out too.

It says spirit in prision dat disobeyed during the time of Noah, def not demons. It's talking people.

But Jesus didn't go to hell to preach to this people directly as you guys are saying. He preached through Noah during th e time of Noah.

Tgirl4real:

I was gonna point that out too.

It says spirit in prision dat disobeyed during the time of Noah, def not demons. It's talking people.

But Jesus didn't go to hell to preach to this people directly as you guys are saying. He preached through Noah during th e time of Noah.

he did? Support that with scripture please. I believe he went directly. Here's that verse in the message translation:
1 peter 3:19-22- he went and proclaimed Gods salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgement because they wouldn't listen...
They were in the prison of judgement when they were preached to. They were dead. Did noah go to hell to preach to them? I think not ma'am.

Lady and gents , we are getting ourselves all mixed up here.

The clue to our problem is in 1 Peter 3:18 ;

" he was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit "

It was by God's Spirit that Jesus was raised from the dead ,and it was by this same Spirit that the worlds were created and the gospel preached to the wicked who lived in the time of Noah. How do we know this :

Genesis 6:3 - " And The Lord said my Spirit will not always strive with man ".

Here we see God through his Spirit striving with Man unto repentance , and this was supported through the preaching of Noah who the bible says was a preacher of righteousness.

To further buttress my point , read this :

Ephesians 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Though Jesus, Noah , Moses, Peter and Paul ( to name a few ) preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God , it was the Spirit of GOD who did the work of conviction , sealing and salvation of those who repented.

2 crucial points :

1. The Spirit of GOD converts sinners - John 3:8
2. The Spirit of GOD strives with sinners , in some cases , until they die.

Back to our point, did Jesus go and preach to the spirits in prison, and who were these spirits in prison ?

In bible language sinners are said to be enslaved to their lusts, in the prison of darkness or chains of darkness as is the case with demons. This does not mean they are in a literal prison, it means they are imprisoned by their wickedness and evil.

"There were those who dwelt in darkness and in the shadow of death, Prisoners in misery and chains, , because they rebelled against God's commands and despised the plans of the Most High.Some sat in darkness and in the shadow" - Psalm 107:11

"And you will be a light to guide the nations.to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness." - Isaiah 42:6b-7


I hope this confirms that sinners and fallen angels are in a state of imprisonment in the realm of darkness, though they may be presently alive.


Conclusion : 1 Peter 3;19

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" - 1 Peter 3:19

The key word here being By which.

It was by this Spirit of GOD that the gospel was preached to the wicked during the time of Noah, it was not Jesus himself who directly preached to these people , who are long gone, dead and buried , all waiting for judgement day.

Let's be clear about one thing, if Jesus only preached to those who died during the time of Noah, then it was a serious injustice to the countless millions who lived in other eras before Christ, by deduction we know this is not true.

Secondly , there is no chance of salvation after death ! Impossible , for the bible says :

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:" - Hebrews 9:27

This verse alone totally obliterates any attempt to pretend that the 'spirit's who lived in the time of Noah had another chance at salvation.


Hope this helps.

frosbel: Lady and gents , we are getting ourselves all mixed up here.

The clue to our problem is in 1 Peter 3:18 ;

" he was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit "

It was by God's Spirit that Jesus was raised from the dead and it was by this same Spirit that the worlds were created and the gospel preached to the wicked who lived in the time of Noah. How do we know this :

Genesis 6:3 - " And The Lord said my Spirit will not always strive with man ".

Here we see God through his Spirit striving with Man unto repentance , and this was supported through the preaching of Noah who the bible says was a preacher of righteousness.

To further buttress my point , read this ;

Ephesians 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


To be continued..............

From what you quoted,are you saying the Lord is Christ? and Christ preexisted during Noah's era? If not your explanations here is rather inadequate and does not address that scripture at all.

Bidam: From what you quoted,are you saying the Lord is Christ? and Christ preexisted during Noah's era? If not your explanations here is rather inadequate and does not address that scripture at all.

If only you had waited until I completed my comment !

frosbel:

If only you had waited until I completed my comment !

Ok,ayam waiting rabbi.

na wa o see twisting kai....

frosbel: Lady and gents , we are getting ourselves all mixed up here.

The clue to our problem is in 1 Peter 3:18 ;

" he was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit "

It was by God's Spirit that Jesus was raised from the dead ,and it was by this same Spirit that the worlds were created and the gospel preached to the wicked who lived in the time of Noah. How do we know this :

Genesis 6:3 - " And The Lord said my Spirit will not always strive with man ".

Here we see God through his Spirit striving with Man unto repentance , and this was supported through the preaching of Noah who the bible says was a preacher of righteousness.

To further buttress my point , read this :

Ephesians 4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


Though Jesus, Noah , Moses, Peter and Paul ( to name a few ) preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God , it was the Spirit of GOD who did the work of conviction , sealing and salvation of those who repented.

2 crucial points :

1. The Spirit of GOD converts sinners - John 3:8
2. The Spirit of GOD strives with sinners , in some cases , until they die.

Back to our point, did Jesus go and preach to the spirits in prison, and who were these spirits in prison ?

In bible language sinners are said to be enslaved to their lusts, in the prison of darkness or chains of darkness as is the case with demons. This does not mean they are in a literal prison, it means they are imprisoned by their wickedness and evil.

"There were those who dwelt in darkness and in the shadow of death, Prisoners in misery and chains, , because they rebelled against God's commands and despised the plans of the Most High.Some sat in darkness and in the shadow" - Psalm 107:11

"And you will be a light to guide the nations.to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness." - Isaiah 42:6b-7


I hope this confirms that sinners and fallen angels are in a state of imprisonment in the realm of darkness, though they may be presently alive.


Conclusion : 1 Peter 3;19

"By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" - 1 Peter 3:19

The key word here being By which.

It was by this Spirit of GOD that the gospel was preached to the wicked during the time of Noah, it was not Jesus himself who directly preached to these people , who are long gone, dead and buried , all waiting for judgement day.

Let's be clear about one thing, if Jesus only preached to those who died during the time of Noah, then it was a serious injustice to the countless millions who lived in other eras before Christ, by deduction we know this is not true.

Secondly , there is no chance of salvation after death ! Impossible , for the bible says :

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement:" - Hebrews 9:27

This verse alone totally obliterates any attempt to pretend that the 'spirit's who lived in the time of Noah had another chance at salvation.


Hope this helps.

Ok,let's say we agree with your twisted logic,are you saying God's Spirit is a he and can be separated from God?

Chibuebem: why would jesus preach a condemnatory message to spirits in prison Nawa o. Thats entirely out of context. He didnt preach to demon spirits, he preached to those who were disobedient in noahs time and who perished in the flood.

In Noah's time an unspecified number of rebellious angels left their place in God's heavenly family, came down to the earth, and materialized fleshly bodies. Why? They had developed a desire to have sexual relations with women. This led to their fathering offspring called Nephilim, who became violent giants. The rebellious angels escaped destruction at the time of the Flood. They abandoned their fleshly bodies and returned to the spirit realm as spirit creatures

"(1) Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, (2) that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. -Genesis 6:1-2 (NKJV)

"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" - Jude 6

"(4) For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but condemned them to the chains of Tartarus and handed them over to be kept for judgment; (5) and if he did not spare the ancient world, even though he preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, together with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the godless world;" -2 Peter 2:4-5 Catholic Bible (NABRE)

Freksy:

In Noah's time an unspecified number of rebellious angels left their place in God's heavenly family, came down to the earth, and materialized fleshly bodies. Why? They had developed a desire to have sexual relations with women. This led to their fathering offspring called Nephilim, who became violent giants. The rebellious angels escaped destruction at the time of the Flood. They abandoned their fleshly bodies and returned to the spirit realm as spirit creatures

100% False.

An Angel does not have a male organ , talk less of the associated seed that goes with it.

There is no way on earth an angel can procreate with a human, contradicting both creation and biology. Total impossibility.

Tgirl4real:

I was gonna point that out too.

It says spirit in prision dat disobeyed during the time of Noah, def not demons. It's talking people.

But Jesus didn't go to hell to preach to this people directly as you guys are saying. He preached through Noah during th e time of Noah.

It's event that took place millenniums after the flood of Noah's day. Moreover, Noah Was flesh, thus could not have preached to the disobedient spirits in their prison realm.

frosbel:

100% False.

An Angel does not have a male organ , talk less of the associated seed that goes with it.

There is no way on earth an angel can procreate with a human, contradicting both creation and biology. Total impossibility.

Can they materialize?

Freksy:

Can they materialize?

materialise as ?

frosbel:

materialise as ?

Humans

Freksy:

Humans

afaik , only God's angels had the ability to 'materialise' as Human beings , which does not in anyway support the fallacy that they were of the same substance of MEN.


Bible says , Angels are spirits - Psalm 104:4

frosbel:


afaik , only God's angels had the ability to 'materialise' as Human beings , which does not in anyway support the fallacy that they were of the same substance of MEN.


Bible says , Angels are spirits - Psalm 104:4

The bolded is not an issue at the moment. If angels can materialize as humans, can anything limit them from admiring pretty women and eventually have intercourse with them? Surely not!

My comment had no hint of them having the same substance as MEN. Would you still say this is 100% lie and impossibility?

Chibuebem: he did? Support that with scripture please. I believe he went directly. Here's that verse in the message translation:
1 peter 3:19-22- he went and proclaimed Gods salvation to earlier generations who ended up in the prison of judgement because they wouldn't listen...
They were in the prison of judgement when they were preached to. They were dead. Did noah go to hell to preach to them? I think not ma'am.

Chibuebem, from where did you get the bolded?

Pastor Kun: @Frosbel
Granted I agree with you that the trinity doctrine is a false pagan inspired doctrine that has no sound biblical basis, what I can't understand is why you deny the divinity of christ and his pre existence despite all the biblical evidence to the contrary.

@pastor kun... you dont believe in the trinity but you believe in the deity of christ? interesting... maybe you could en-lighting me

Freksy:

The bolded is not an issue at the moment. If angels can materialize as humans, can anything limit them from admiring pretty women and eventually have intercourse with them? Surely not!

My comment had no hint of them having the same substance as MEN. Would you still say this is 100% lie and impossibility?

2 things.

The angels were not human beings, they only 'appeared' as MEN and almost disappeared after their mission had been accomplished.

I repeat , they were not in substance MEN, let's leave that stuff to folklore.