Logicboy03:
So a piece of wood that has no ideas doesnt exist?

More like a piece of wood doesn't know it exists, doesn't know what existence is and has no intellect whatsoever. Same applies to the neurons in your brain.

Logicboy03:
Is everyone seeing this foolishness?

I see the foolishness clearly. Uyi said logicboy's neural activities lack intelligence. It is an inane posit.

Logicboy03:
So if all animals die on earth, will that make the wood non-existent?

The wood will exist. It won't know it exists though. Any less than you knew you existed when you were an 8-cell zygote.

Logicboy03: Fail. Matter doesnt need ideas to exist. Ideas need matter to exist. An idea can exist without humans

Fail. Matter exists independent of humans BUT matter DOES NOT KNOW existence and LACKS CONSCIOUSNESS.

Logicboy03: The scientific method works.

Sure it does. Like God, the scientific method has never been physically substatiated but assumed. For your likes, the method is the sanctum of ignorance where the term God once was.

Logicboy03: Your god doesnt explain one single thing.

My God explains everything. I understand God to be the matrix of reality. All thoughts and matter by which they are made manifest find their substance in God. I'll tell you a secret. I'm integrating the concepts
Space, Energy and Thought (Nous) into the term God.

Logicboy03: All God does is create more mysteriesrather than explain anything.

Only minds discern mysteries and seek to explain them. Your evolution is a dead doornail incapable of making bacteria exhibiting cognition talkless of men with intellect.

Logicboy03: You say God is the cause for consciousness.

Sure.

Logicboy03: Erm how did God cause it?

Erm. Nohow. In any case ooman asked a different question but my reply then (in the thread Improbability Of God) so I'll bring my reply here.

Nohow. As I have said before, an immaterial, conscious and intelligent God perforce effected matter. I talked about telekinesis. This question is the most crucial because it is where idealism and materialism compromise. I'll explain. Imagining things like pink unicorns, golden mountains, The Alchemist's stone (that turns lead into gold), a cell phone that filters dirty water, a fan that automatically switches on at low temperature or on issuing voice commands. If you don't act on your idea they don't materialize, and there is no testament to their existence except to the one who thinks of it. The really cool thing about ideas is that no one man is the custodian of all ideas. Now let's take the case of a pink unicorn, which people like you use to parody the idea of God. You draw a pink unicorn and it is easily materialized, sculpting a unicorn and painting it in a manner that evokes the feeling that an observer is looking at an actual pink unicorn is much harder. Building an actual pink unicorn, able to give birth to pink unicorns is hardest. Ask the likes of Paul Rothemund or do some work and read genetic engineering. An actual pink unicorn being built with co-opted
genetic elements is a future possibility. Now your difficulty is this,
you are constrained to materialize your ideas using your body and
using already extant matter and you imagine God like you, to be
constrained in that manner. No. Your will has power to effect an idea via the body wherein which you, your ideas etc are constrained. God has no such limits which you seek to place on it. In fact I now find the picture Christians use to imply God by depicting a hand holding the universe to be off the mark. He needs no hand to sustain the universe talkless of planet earth. Its will has power.

Logicboy03: How did God create consciousness and where did he/she do it? Why only consciousness? Why not the physical body?

You aren't asking these questions because you want answers but here goes.

To the first question: God is consciousness itself and He imputed it to humans by telekinesis. You can't do that, you are contingent. Of course, the only known place where God did such is on Earth and in the unlikely event aliens are found we will have another licatiin where God did something.

To the second question: Consciousness is the only thing that is sentient and possesses intellect. You cannot think outside of consciousness anymore you can think outside of space. This is the strength of St. Anselm's argument for God.

To the third question: I suppose what you are asking here is why didn't God make only bodies with no consciousness. Simple. I infer it does both. We see dead physical bodies with no consciousness whatsoever even when animated via a heart-lung machine. We see living bodies like you who have God's nature_consciousness.

Logicboy03: Your God is inexplicable himself. Abeg, just stop the God of the gaps

And so I should become a evo-zombie like you. Eating from the feet of intelligent fools who consistently confound themselves by stating evolution is based on purposeless mechanisms whilst ALWAYS talking about how organisms evolve in terms of PURPOSE. The irony is usually lost on (or ignored by) them.

Uyi Iredia:

More like a piece of wood doesn't know it exists, doesn't know what existence is and has no intellect whatsoever. Same applies to the neurons in your brain.



I see the foolishness clearly. Uyi said logicboy's neural activities lack intelligence. It is an inane posit.



The wood will exist. It won't know it exists though. Any less than you knew you existed when you were an 8-cell zygote.



Fail. Matter exists independent of humans BUT matter DOES NOT KNOW existence and LACKS CONSCIOUSNESS.



Sure it does. Like God, the scientific method has never been physically substatiated but assumed. For your likes, the method is the sanctum of ignorance where the term God once was.



My God explains everything. I understand God to be the matrix of reality. All thoughts and matter by which they are made manifest find their substance in God. I'll tell you a secret. I'm integrating the concepts
Space, Energy and Thought (Nous) into the term God.




Only minds discern mysteries and seek to explain them. Your evolution is a dead doornail incapable of making bacteria exhibiting cognition talkless of men with intellect.



Sure.



Erm. Nohow. In any case ooman asked a different question but my reply then (in the thread Improbability Of God) so I'll bring my reply here.

Nohow. As I have said before, an immaterial, conscious and intelligent God perforce effected matter. I talked about telekinesis. This question is the most crucial because it is where idealism and materialism compromise. I'll explain. Imagining things like pink unicorns, golden mountains, The Alchemist's stone (that turns lead into gold), a cell phone that filters dirty water, a fan that automatically switches on at low temperature or on issuing voice commands. If you don't act on your idea they don't materialize, and there is no testament to their existence except to the one who thinks of it. The really cool thing about ideas is that no one man is the custodian of all ideas. Now let's take the case of a pink unicorn, which people like you use to parody the idea of God. You draw a pink unicorn and it is easily materialized, sculpting a unicorn and painting it in a manner that evokes the feeling that an observer is looking at an actual pink unicorn is much harder. Building an actual pink unicorn, able to give birth to pink unicorns is hardest. Ask the likes of Paul Rothemund or do some work and read genetic engineering. An actual pink unicorn being built with co-opted
genetic elements is a future possibility. Now your difficulty is this,
you are constrained to materialize your ideas using your body and
using already extant matter and you imagine God like you, to be
constrained in that manner. No. Your will has power to effect an idea via the body wherein which you, your ideas etc are constrained. God has no such limits which you seek to place on it. In fact I now find the picture Christians use to imply God by depicting a hand holding the universe to be off the mark. He needs no hand to sustain the universe talkless of planet earth. Its will has power.




You aren't asking these questions because you want answers but here goes.

To the first question: God is consciousness itself and He imputed it to humans by telekinesis. You can't do that, you are contingent. Of course, the only known place where God did such is on Earth and in the unlikely event aliens are found we will have another licatiin where God did something.

To the second question: Consciousness is the only thing that is sentient and possesses intellect. You cannot think outside of consciousness anymore you can think outside of space. This is the strength of St. Anselm's argument for God.

To the third question: I suppose what you are asking here is why didn't God make only bodies with no consciousness. Simple. I infer it does both. We see dead physical bodies with no consciousness whatsoever even when animated via a heart-lung machine. We see living bodies like you who have God's nature_consciousness.



And so I should become a evo-zombie like you. Eating from the feet of intelligent fools who consistently confound themselves by stating evolution is based on purposeless mechanisms whilst ALWAYS talking about how organisms evolve in terms of PURPOSE. The irony is usually lost on (or ignored by) them.

I give up.....you are damn foolish

Logicboy03:

I give up.....you are damn foolish

Says the dude that wrote the following:

Logicboy03:
Atheism- disbelief in God. Atheism is not the belief that God does not exist.

You smart gan !

Uyi Iredia:


To the first question: God is consciousness itself and He imputed it to humans by telekinesis.

Does he use a contraption similar to say a ray gun? I'd worship a god that uses a ray gun, well well sef. That's immaterial material science right there.

Also, mammy-water. Is he in contact with the marine kingdom? Does that mean the ray gun works underwater as well? Because of its immaterialness non-existence existence? That's pretty cool

Uyi Iredia:
You can't do that, you are contingent. Of course, the only known place where God did such is on Earth and in the unlikely event aliens are found we will have another licatiin where God did something.

A great god indeed. I'm still considering the IPU though, she must have some fascinating devices that enable her to make herself invisible and yet remain pink to the mortal eye. Also because she's a she, because I say so.

Uyi Iredia:
Eating from the feet of intelligent fools who consistently confound themselves by stating evolution is based on purposeless mechanisms whilst ALWAYS talking about how organisms evolve in terms of PURPOSE. The irony is usually lost on (or ignored by) them.

You seem to have problems with how beings conscious, capable of determining their own purposes, evolve. But god? No. He's exempt. How did god acquire the tools to determine his own purpose? More immaterial material ray guns?

Or perhaps you just wish to remain a slave, incapable of determining your own purpose?

Uyi Iredia:

Says the dude that wrote the following:

Logicboy03:
Atheism- disbelief in God. Atheism is not the belief that God does not exist.


You smart gan !

A disbelief is not a belief in the opposite. Seems you have been speaking too much Yoruba and forgotten basic grammar.

But hey, you wouldnt understand.



Imagine this foolish Uyi Iredia making this science fiction comment while trying to pass it off as science;

Uyi Iredia:


To the first question: God is consciousness itself and He imputed it to humans by [size=18pt]telekinesis[/size].

Too much star trek or xmen?

Logicboy03:

A disbelief is not a belief in the opposite. Seems you have been speaking too much Yoruba and forgotten basic grammar.

But hey, you wouldnt understand.

So that justifies that comment. Okay. Sir 'Atheism-is-not-the-belief-that-God-doesn't-exist'

Logicboy03:
Imagine this foolish Uyi Iredia making this science fiction comment while trying to pass it off as science;

I'll pass.

Logicboy03:
Too much star trek or xmen?

Thinking. Funny thing is evolution is what is talked about as responsible for mutant powers. I think you should ask.

Uyi Iredia:

So that justifies that comment. Okay. Sir 'Atheism-is-not-the-belief-that-God-doesn't-exist'



I'll pass.




Thinking. Funny thing is evolution is what is talked about as responsible for mutant powers. I think you should ask.

Many of the mutants got their powers from muatgens or enhancement not natural evolution

Baby whargarbl $hit$ in his diapers. Let's see if he'll be cleaned up.

wiegraf:

Does he use a contraption similar to say a ray gun? I'd worship a god that uses a ray gun, well well sef. That's immaterial material science right there.

So you are a human after all. Baby worships who baby likes. It's easy to worship the God you fantasized: just do it.

wiegraf:
Also, mammy-water. Is he in contact with the marine kingdom? Does that mean the ray gun works underwater as well? Because of its immaterialness non-existence existence? That's pretty cool

So baby knows mammy-water. Baby's hard on's came a tad to early. It's okay, one knew baby was special from the day Darwin's stork evolved him from goo.

wiegraf:
A great god indeed. I'm still considering the IPU though, she must have some fascinating devices that enable her to make herself invisible and yet remain pink to the mortal eye. Also because she's a she, because I say so.

Okay. Baby wants a visible God probably like Leon Schuster, betyer yet like Brandon Routh plus all those cool powers: then he wows baby by saving people from all disasters or better yet stops them all. Like his fellow babies: he wants a God with personality.

wiegraf:
You seem to have problems with how beings conscious, capable of determining their own purposes, evolve. But god? No. He's exempt. How did god acquire the tools to determine his own purpose? More immaterial material ray guns?

Baby is so $tupid. I have problems with goo-to-you evolution not beings who determine their purpose: men determine their purpose because they have the level of consciousness required for such. Baby may understand later.

wiegraf:
Or perhaps you just wish to remain a slave, incapable of determining your own purpose?

Says the doofus who believes purposeless evolutionary mechanisms made things with purpose. Baby's relatives understand, unlike baby whargarbl, that only purpose births purpose and discerns unpurpose. But baby likes Gods with ray guns so rays of suns effecting men from soups is quite okay.

Logicboy03:

Many of the mutants got their powers from muatgens or enhancement not natural evolution

You can't even get facts about fiction straight. I pity your client: dude has a bad lawyer on his hands (assuming I recall the facts right). Maybe Baba Deep Sight can help you out on that score.

Atheists are the funniest people on earth,infact I don't even know why they were still adamant on the issue they cannot prove by their logical reasoning.

Until you're able to provide scientific evidence/explanation for conciousness and invisible forces(spirit),there's no point in denying the fact that there must be something triggered it(consciousness), whivh I belief is God.

Have you people forgot that science is merely a man made plausible explanation of nature? Get your fact right, consciousness/spirit is not of science and would not be prove scientifically. It's immaterial, ideal and invisible for that matter.

D sage: Atheists are the funniest people on earth,infact I don't even know why they were still adamant on the issue they cannot prove by their logical reasoning.

Until you're able to provide scientific evidence/explanation for conciousness and invisible forces(spirit),there's no point in denying the fact that there must be something triggered it(consciousness), whivh I belief is God.

Have you people forgot that science is merely a man made plausible explanation of nature? Get your fact right, consciousness/spirit is not of science and would not be prove scientifically. It's immaterial, ideal and invisible for that matter.

I dont know (how consciousness came) therefore God did it.



dubious tool

Logicboy03:



I dont know (how consciousness came) therefore God did it.



dubious tool

I don't know how consciousness came but evolution did it. Or take my promissory check that science will tell us in the future. Nonsense ! Scientists are already claiming like plaetton that consciousness arose from matter. That's the theory. I've pointed out a major flaw matter in itself lacks consciousness. Deep Sight earlier pointed out a similar flaw: matter has NO COMPULSION to make 'simple' living systems talkless of multicellular living systems.

Logicboy03:



I dont know (how consciousness came) therefore God did it.



dubious tool

I don't know (how consciousness came) therefore evolution did it.

dubious tool.

He is coming with another grenade. *Runs for cover*

Uyi Iredia:

I don't know how consciousness came but evolution did it. Or take my promissory check that science will tell us in the future. Nonsense ! Scientists are already claiming like plaetton that consciousness arose from matter. That's the theory. I've pointed out a major flaw matter in itself lacks consciousness. Deep Sight earlier pointed out a similar flaw: matter has NO COMPULSION to make 'simple' living systems talkless of multicellular living systems.

Take your beef with plaetton directly to him....am sure that he will floor you



Follow the argument properly- consciousness is a product of the brain. The brain is an evolved organ

Mr anony:
I don't know (how consciousness came) therefore evolution did it.

dubious tool.

Evolution, at least, can be observed.

Alfa Seltzer: Evolution, at least, can be observed.

You can observe evolution therefore evolution did it? What has that even got to do with anything?

Yeah me too, I can observe salt and pepper therefore salt and pepper must have equally created consciousness.

Alfa Seltzer:

Evolution, at least, can be observed.

Microevolution not macroevolution has been observed.

Uyi Iredia: He is coming with another grenade. *Runs for cover*

hehehehe

Logicboy03:


Take your beef with plaetton directly to him....am sure that he will floor you



Follow the argument properly- consciousness is a product of the brain. The brain is an evolved organ

He only floors me in your la-la land. If you believe that the human brain has its origins in abiogenesis you fail because matter in and of itself lacks consciousness or the ability to self-organize into specified complexity or the impetus to imagine, which computers even lack. I won't even go to biological evolution because I've since realised that abiogenesis is a hidden conjecture (amongst others) of the theory. If you are to falsify my position, if you are to have a SOLID inferential basis that matter maketh minds (like Perry Marshall) I demand one example of naturalistic processes making evolution. I already know the substance of rebuttals you may bring. It's on Perry Marshall's blog.

Remember, ONE example of matter self-organizing into a code which is encoded and decoded.

Uyi Iredia: Baby whargarbl $hit$ in his diapers. Let's see if he'll be cleaned up.



So you are a human after all. Baby worships who baby likes. It's easy to worship the God you fantasized: just do it.



So baby knows mammy-water. Baby's hard on's came a tad to early. It's okay, one knew baby was special from the day Darwin's stork evolved him from goo.




Okay. Baby wants a visible God probably like Leon Schuster, betyer yet like Brandon Routh plus all those cool powers: then he wows baby by saving people from all disasters or better yet stops them all. Like his fellow babies: he wants a God with personality.



Baby is so $tupid. I have problems with goo-to-you evolution not beings who determine their purpose: men determine their purpose because they have the level of consciousness required for such. Baby may understand later.



Says the doofus who believes purposeless evolutionary mechanisms made things with purpose. Baby's relatives understand, unlike baby whargarbl, that only purpose births purpose and discerns unpurpose. But baby likes Gods with ray guns so rays of suns effecting men from soups is quite okay.

And you call me mr. whargarbl? The only thing I gleaned from this was that I like gods with ray guns. And I would hope you're not holding that against me considering your penchant for telekinetic superheroes.

Other than the obvious delirium, you seem to have problems. Perhaps you need an immaterial material e-hug?

Mr anony:
I don't know (how consciousness came) therefore evolution did it.

dubious tool.

I don't know how consciousness works. I do know it is housed in the brain. I also know the brain came about via evolution.

Do the math.

Uyi Iredia:

He only floors me in your la-la land. If you believe that the human brain has its origins in abiogenesis you fail because matter in and of itself lacks consciousness or the ability to self-organize into specified complexity or the impetus to imagine, which computers even lack. I won't even go to biological evolution because I've since realised that abiogenesis is a hidden conjecture (amongst others) of the theory. If you are to falsify my position, if you are to have a SOLID inferential basis that matter maketh minds (like Perry Marshall) I demand one example of naturalistic processes making evolution. I already know the substance of rebuttals you may bring. It's on Perry Marshall's blog.

Remember, ONE example of matter self-organizing into a code which is encoded and decoded.

Evolution of humans has nothing to do with abiogenesis

wiegraf:

I don't know how consciousness works. I do know it is housed in the brain. I also know the brain came about via evolution.

Do the math.

Yeah. God is so real , but he is here, he is there, but he can neither be seen nor observed.
We sneeak him in during good times, sneak him in out during bad times.

wiegraf: I don't know how consciousness works. I do know it is housed in the brain. I also know the brain came about via evolution.

Do the math.

First of all, you don't know how consciousness works. What do you mean by "consciousness is housed in the brain"? Would "sight is housed in the eye" be a similar statement?

i.e. Are you saying that the consciousness is housed by the brain in the sense that the brain is a tool or that the brain actually creates the consciousness? Just like how an eye is the tool used to see but the eye does not create the sight itself. Get my drift?

So what exactly do you mean when you say that consciousness is housed in the brain?

Logicboy03:



Evolution of humans has nothing to do with abiogenesis

Nonsense. Evolutionists affirm this upfront and deny it behind. Google "Lee Kronin life TED". And looknat the TED talk where a chemist proposes a General Theory of Evolution. This posit is decades old and there is a rapid move to unify abiogenesis with biological evolution. Ultimately, evolution is simply abiogenesis occuring in the sense that materialistic processes make life. Your theory has everything to do with abiogenesis.

BTW Lee Kronin's talk ain't the only ace up my sleeve.

Mr anony:
First of all, you don't know how consciousness works. What do you mean by "consciousness is housed in the brain"? Would "sight is housed in the eye" be a similar statement?

i.e. Are you saying that the consciousness is housed by the brain in the sense that the brain is a tool or that the brain actually creates the consciousness? Just like how an eye is the tool used to see but the eye does not create the sight itself. Get my drift?

So what exactly do you mean when you say that consciousness is housed in the brain?

CPU, OS, hard disk, keyboard, web cam. etc etc

wiegraf:

And you call me mr. whargarbl? The only thing I gleaned from this was that I like gods with ray guns. And I would hope you're not holding that against me considering your penchant for telekinetic superheroes.

Other than the obvious delirium, you seem to have problems. Perhaps you need an immaterial material e-hug?

Of course, mr whargarbl. One has to hold you to that since that's what you prefer. Considering your penchant for mundane ray guns I suppose my posit of God's telekinesis is inane in your la-la land.

As for deliriums, I think the saying that it takes a mad man to know a mad man should suffice. I am an atheist as regards 'immaterial material e-hugs'.

wiegraf: CPU, OS, hard disk, keyboard, web cam. etc etc

I don't see what this list has to do with the question I asked you

The inherent problem with Atheism at least when I dabbled into (my personal view) is that it stemmed out a heart filled with rebellion, I believe there are people that are genuinely atheists and not just rebelling against religion.

On another note seeking the source of consciousness is awesome and should be encouraged,till then if you choose to be an atheist be the best atheist that ever lived,on the other hand if you are a theist keep being the best you can be.

Remember the golden rule..love you neigbour as yourself,hate will not move humanity forward.

Mr anony:
I don't see what this list has to do with the question I asked you

Then you might need to upgrade your OS, or get a more powerful CPU, etc etc

GeneralShepherd: The inherent problem with Atheism at least when I dabbled into (my personal view) is that it stemmed out a heart filled with rebellion, I believe there are people that are genuinely atheists and not just rebelling against religion.

On another note seeking the source of consciousness is awesome and should be encouraged,till then if you choose to be an atheist be the best atheist that ever lived,on the other hand if you are a theist keep being the best you can be.

Remember the golden rule..love you neigbour as yourself,hate will not move humanity forward.

Goot, goot