What if Nigeria partner with countries like Russia, India or China to build our own sturdy, prop-driven aircraft? We could:
Design and build a well armored propeller driven aircraft. With speed typical of COAS aircrafts.
With modern avionics, advance radars, targeting pods and whatnot.
With enough hard-points that will make the Super Tucano jealous. With superb loiter time.
With a price tag and quality that will make buyers fall over each other.
Perfect for training. Better than Super Mushshak. Cheaper than A29 and Air Tractor

We could if we really want to.

I say take $600million and build us some wonderful aircraft.

That prop plane from Brazil is even too over-hyped, how many wars has it actually even won?

I don't see the Russians using them in Syria, yet we know how that one went for IS and "moderate" militants in that country.

Invest in more attack helicopters, UAVs from China, fighter jets from China and Russia, while we get recon planes from the US. What Rubbish!

tdayof:
i thought nemesis4u said we can get the su30 for around $35m. It all goes down to the specifications.


Anyhow, there are other fighters. The SU27 IS there too.


Nemesi4u, Biko help with some advantages of a su30 over a good packed su27.

Around 35 million will be the base price

I always said a fully capable one will cost anywhere between 50-70 million depending on what is put in.

Su30 is a deep upgrade of su27

Xbee007:

We could if we really want to.

Exactly, we would gain way more doing this. I mean how hard can building a propeller plane be?

Pakistan spent that amount and they got a very fantastic light weight fighter.

X

jteku:
Off topic.

Caption this....

Achtung hundin

the point from where a contract is signed, it takes time to deliver especially if the lines r idle , and on confirmed orders , OEM places order for consumerables to hundreds/thousands of vendors and then waits for delivery , which again takes time and then plate cutting for fuselage is undertaken after materials r delivered , add in various tests and when the various components, consumerables r delivered integration begins which is interrupted by various tests at various stages , once the aircraft is completed , factory level tests then tests by the user etc takes places .

All in all just saying for any primary OEM time frame of delivery will be same give or take some months after the contract is finalized.

That's the reality which u guys r not aware or r overlooking

iblawi:


Forward ever bro. $600 million is not too much for Nigeria and I expect it to come with jf-17 too.

Nigeria should contract china directly for the JF17. we will get it in a year maximum.

nemesis4u:
the point from where a contract is signed, it takes time to deliver especially if the lines r idle , and on confirmed orders , OEM places order for consumerables to hundreds/thousands of vendors and then waits for delivery , which again takes time and then plate cutting for fuselage is undertaken after materials r delivered , add in various tests and when the various components, consumerables r delivered integration begins which is interrupted by various tests at various stages , once the aircraft is completed , factory level tests then tests by the user etc takes places .

All in all just saying for any primary OEM time frame of delivery will be same give or take some months after the contract is finalized.

That's the reality which u guys r not aware or r overlooking

The Chinese will deliver fast. Those guys have a very fast line. I guess due to man power.



They have various projects going on at AVIC . The view is always fun wherever I visit. They can get you an aircraft in a year. I need to have a tabled discussion with the defence minister. I'll rather wait 2 years for a flanker than 2 years for a Tucano.

tdayof:

Nigeria should contract china directly for the JF17. we will get it in a year maximum.

That should have been done and by this time u would have been flying them plus it would have been financially possible to order more of them at the same time

Henry240:
That prop plane from Brazil is even too over-hyped, how many wars has it actually even won?

I don't see the Russians using them in Syria, yet we know how that one went for IS and "moderate" militants in that country.

Invest in more attack helicopters, UAVs from China, fighter jets from China and Russia, while we get recon planes from the US. What Rubbish!

They're saying $494m now. Where's the balance from the $600m.

The aircraft is overhyped jare

tdayof:


They're saying $494m now. Where's the balance from the $600m.

The aircraft is overhyped jare

I just felt weak when I read that shengian

nemesis4u:
the point from where a contract is signed, it takes time to deliver especially if the lines r idle , and on confirmed orders , OEM places order for consumerables to hundreds/thousands of vendors and then waits for delivery , which again takes time and then plate cutting for fuselage is undertaken after materials r delivered , add in various tests and when the various components, consumerables r delivered integration begins which is interrupted by various tests at various stages , once the aircraft is completed , factory level tests then tests by the user etc takes places .

All in all just saying for any primary OEM time frame of delivery will be same give or take some months after the contract is finalized.

That's the reality which u guys r not aware or r overlooking

Thank you Nemesis.
I wish Algerian were here I said this last year.
I know my Nigerian brothers were impatient but this is taking the biscuit.
In 2015 Nigeria renegotiated the Helicopter deal with Russia for all weather, more ammo, more rockets.
The result? The first Helicopters did not arrive till 2017.
Nemesis please tell my brothers what India went through with the SU27.
Please tell them what was the eventual outcome..
Memo to Naija.
Whether you buy Brand New Planes from Russia or America , The first two will not arrive till 2020.
Henry for a crop duster you don't need to buy PGMs nor a simulator.
Lastly even for $1B Russia will not go into a joint venture with ANY Country. to develop any plane.
If they wouldn't do it with Algeria why would they do it with Nigeria.At best they will give you a license to manufacture APCs , Tanks and Small arms.

Nigeria will not accept the stringent conditions given by the United States on the planned purchase of 12 Tucano fighter jets, Minister of Defence Mansur Dan-Ali has said.
The minister said the security council has approved the purchase of the $494 million 12 A-29 Super Tucano fighter crafts, but “some of the conditions America gave us are stringent. These conditions we will not accept.”

One of the conditions is that the sale will not be made till 2020, the minister said. He said other conditions included that Nigerian technicians would not be trained by US staff, or be part of the maintenance crews.
“They are also thinking of not allowing our technicians to be part of the production inspection,” he said.
“But this is what we normally do in all the defence contracts, we send our personnel to go and understudy, especially when it comes to specialized aircrafts like in Russia, our personnel are permanently based in where the production is being done for this MI35 helicopters,” Dan-Ali told reporters at the State House, Abuja.
The aircraft purchase has been mired in controversy since President Barack Obama’s administration. Under Obama, the aircraft deal had been held off due to concerns about the Nigerian military’s human rights abuses.
The deal was further postponed recently when 170 people died last January after Nigerian Airforce bombed a refugee camp in Rann, Borno state.
Dan-Ali said the federal government was planning to meet with the US ambassador to discuss reducing the conditions.
“Payments will be made when the conditions are reduced,” the defence minister said.
The Nigerian Airforce had earlier scheduled February 20 for the final agreements to be signed and initial payments made.
Concern over cost of planes
Daily Trust has been on the story for weeks over the huge cost of the Tucano planes since the deal was announced.
The Minister of Information Lai Mohammed earlier said in a statement that the 12 aircraft, with weapons and services, would cost $593 million. But the defence minister yesterday gave the cost at $494m, about $100m less the cost announced by the government spokesperson.
A cost analysis by this newspaper has shown that the government-declared cost is almost three times the cost of the planes in the international market.
Findings revealed that a Super Tucano costs more than $10 million each and the price can go up to $15 million apiece depending on the configuration.
Going by Dan-Ali’s cost, Nigeria is purchasing each of the plane at about $41 million.
The propeller-driven plane with reconnaissance, surveillance and attack capabilities, is made by Brazil’s Embraer. A second production line is in Florida, in a partnership between Embraer and privately held Sierra Nevada Corp of Sparks, Nevada.
More than 200 Super Tucanos are operated by 10 nations, according to Embraer. The plane is used for training and security, surveillance, reconnaissance and counter-insurgency missions.
The plane can carry a wide array of armaments, including precision-guided munitions, is equipped with advanced avionics, communications, and sensors and can operate from remote, unpaved airstrips.
It has a maximum speed of 590 km per hour (367 mph) and a flight ceiling of 35,000 feet (6.6 miles).
Experts smell underhand deal
Security experts and defence contractors spoke to our reporters.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, a retired senior air force officer conversant with the deal said the high cost was arrived “most likely through intermediaries in which case 95 percent of the deal is backed by corrupt practices which makes it so expensive.”
He said, “everybody involved wants to make extra cash, the manufacturer, the intermediate and the end user.”
The security chief fingered some senior government officials in the deal. He said a senior security official had “wanted to stop the deal but due to the non-assertiveness of that security official, another official went ahead with the deal.”
“I think what the NAF signed with the Defence Attache of US was the approval of the US Government to supply the toys. I called them toys because they are basically training aircrafts and not effective in combat missions,” he said.
Another defence contractor also said the high cost might be the handiwork of intermediaries. He said the cost of the planes is determined by the source of procurement, mode of payments, among others.
“US and EU companies won’t accept any price above their reasonable profit margin. This is because of the stringent oversight by their home government agencies who audit their books,” he said.
But in the case of Nigeria’s purchase, “the high cost must have been borne out by the actions of intermediaries. The money might be paid through offshore accounts in some islands. But the EU and US companies are very careful in accepting anything above their ideal profit margin,” the defence contractor said.
No full cost of jets yet - Airforce
For over two weeks, Daily Trust sought explanations on the list of the added components that forced the cost to be so high.
The information ministry, when contacted, referred our reporter to defence ministry for details of the deal. But the spokesperson of defence minister Colonel Tukur Gusau yesterday said he didn’t have the details of the deal.
“I need time to consult the relevant stakeholders to obtain the details,” Gusau told our reporter by telephone last night.
The spokesperson of the US embassy in Abuja Mr Russell Brooks was also not available for comment yesterday.
But the spokesperson of the Nigerian Air Force Air Vice Marshal Olatokunbo Adesanya said he would reveal details of the full cost at the right time.
He said apart from just the purchase of the aircraft, details of the transaction would include spares for the jets, training of pilots, training of maintenance crew and ammunition.
He said there would need to put an adequate infrastructure in place for the maintenance of the fighter jets.

https://www.dailytrust.com.ng/fg-rejects-us-conditions-on-sale-of-fighter-jets.html

Nigerian Police officers standing beside a Proforce Defence APC

newafricaken254:
kenya army recruits during training

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip2NR2vsLyI

This is barbaric, why do the drill sergeants have to assault the recruits. Professional militaries are able to train without physically assaulting their recruits, I wouldn't be surprised if the women are often rapped

http://defence-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/C4xib5ZWIAAQHef.jpg Beeg found a Turkish alternative...what do u guys think?

tdayof:


They're saying $494m now. Where's the balance from the $600m.

The aircraft is overhyped jare

Nigeria would have to pull a massive golden rabbit out of its hat in order to convince Russia, China etc to partner in order to produce anything close to A-29. It would take 10 years minimum & cost a whole lot.

What critical aeronautical expertise would you bring to the project? Or rather which part of the project would you call shotgun on? Avionics, radar, weapons release?

It's not impossible, but don't be foo.led just because it's a prop driven aircraft. Such things work if you already have a large base of industry experts in your country working full time on similar projects.

Tinfoil:


This is barbaric, why do the drill sergeants have to assault the recruits. Professional militaries are able to train without physically assaulting their recruits, I wouldn't be surprised if the women are often rapped

your professional army

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNUMM4iRb0

newafricaken254:
your professional army

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwNUMM4iRb0

"Clerks and cooks get scared while being shelled, this proves people get scared"

Epic refutation there, bro.

patches689:


"Clerks and cooks get scared while being shelled, this proves people get scared"

Epic refutation there, bro.

is tin foil your mother or close relative !?

Tinfoil:


This is barbaric, why do the drill sergeants have to assault the recruits. Professional militaries are able to train without physically assaulting their recruits, I wouldn't be surprised if the women are often rapped

Just so you know. Physical punishment used to be a staple of US military training. Back in the day a drill sergeant was allowed to physically beat recruits (within reason of course). I'm not saying physical punishment is good and I'm not saying it's bad. That argument is actually still going on today with many older veterans saying it's better since it builds stronger soldiers while newer vets say it's unnecessary because it increases injury and is easy to abuse.

To add on to this iirc Russia uses physical punishment of their spetznaz teams (not sure if it's any specific division but if I had to put my money on one I'd say it's Spetznaz Gru)

ssaengine:
Nigeria would have to pull a massive golden rabbit out of its hat in order to convince Russia, China etc to partner in order to produce anything close to A-29. It would take 10 years minimum & cost a whole lot.

What critical aeronautical expertise would you bring to the project? Or rather which part of the project would you call shotgun on? Avionics, radar, weapons release?

It's not impossible, but don't be foo.led just because it's a prop driven aircraft. Such things work if you already have a large base of industry experts in your country working full time on similar projects.

...and to say I know 6 Nigerians who have been working with aselsan turkey on aircraft development and over 15 working on aerospace sectors in China under the federal government sponsor?


These guys I'm talking about finished from AFIT then to crawnfield and now working with Chinese corporations to gain more more knowledge under the sponsor of the Chinese government.


A good look into AFIT website will show you a link of and a particular Nigerian who is also on the Chinese first commercial aircraft development C-919. I saw the link last year and I'll check again.

I even have a PhD student in my school from Pakistan that works with some Chinese team in my school with the development and design of some component for the aircraft.

The Chinese defence sector has a large percentage of its aircraft project and development being done by universities then being passed to AVIC and others. Even the Chinese J-20 fighter stealth was developed by a university and being passed on to the aircraft manufacturer.

In short, there are Nigerians with knowledge in the fields you mentioned. Just like our own space project isn't that too big, we have people who have knowledge on such.

Blablablabla, your point is pointless.

I mean no offence so don't reply with ibinu.
Last last, transfer of technology will do most things here. Expertise and experience in the field is available so transfer of technology will do the rest.

fufubear:

Just so you know. Physical punishment used to be a staple of US military training. Back in the day a drill sergeant was allowed to physically beat recruits (within reason of course). I'm not saying physical punishment is good and I'm not saying it's bad. That argument is actually still going on today with many older veterans saying it's better since it builds stronger soldiers while newer vets say it's unnecessary because it increases injury and is easy to abuse.

To add on to this iirc Russia uses physical punishment of their spetznaz teams (not sure if it's any specific division but if I had to put my money on one I'd say it's Spetznaz Gru)

I know for a fact that this kind of criminal behavior would be prosecuted in the US. It doesn't work, leads to low morale, creates cycle of violence,.... Africaken please don't take things so personal, this is just an example of how bad things are in the Kenyan military. Crappy equipment, theft of monies, low morale, promotion based on tribe rather than merit, low pay,.....

frumentius:
My dress uniform has been properly laundered for the official reception tonight for Lt.Gen. Buratai .

was he in SA? did you see him yourself? you gave him a guard of honour? maybe he is there to see how he can overthrow the fantastically corrupt Zuma from power.�

MiddleDimension:


was he in SA? did you see him yourself? you gave him a guard of honour? maybe he is there to see how he can overthrow the fantastically corrupt Zuma from power.�

Which kind talk be this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_8X8tbjqjg

fufubear:

Just so you know. Physical punishment used to be a staple of US military training. Back in the day a drill sergeant was allowed to physically beat recruits (within reason of course). I'm not saying physical punishment is good and I'm not saying it's bad. That argument is actually still going on today with many older veterans saying it's better since it builds stronger soldiers while newer vets say it's unnecessary because it increases injury and is easy to abuse.

To add on to this iirc Russia uses physical punishment of their spetznaz teams (not sure if it's any specific division but if I had to put my money on one I'd say it's Spetznaz Gru)

this guys are p@ssies ,thats why africans have being fighting their wars for them

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWIHOIZVZtE

tdayof:



...and to say I know 6 Nigerians who have been working with aselsan turkey on aircraft development and over 15 working on aerospace sectors in China under the federal government sponsor?


These guys I'm talking about finished from AFIT then to crawnfield and now working with Chinese corporations to gain more more knowledge under the sponsor of the Chinese government.


A good look into AFIT website will show you a link of and a particular Nigerian who is also on the Chinese first commercial aircraft development C-919. I saw the link last year and I'll check again.

I even have a PhD student in my school from Pakistan that works with some Chinese team in my school with the development and design of some component for the aircraft.

The Chinese defence sector has a large percentage of its aircraft project and development being done by universities then being passed to AVIC and others.

In short, there are Nigerians with knowledge in the fields you mentioned. Just like our own space project isn't that too big, we have people who have knowledge on such.

Blablablabla, your point is pointless.


I mean no offence so don't reply with ibinu.

I'm sure they are dozens of countries with an even higher number of their citizens in those Chinese institutions, but those countries will still find it difficult to get an A29 type program off the ground. People really do underestimate a large scale engineering project.

6 guys here, two guys there is not enough. If it was the other way around, with Chinese and/or other nationals permanently based in Nigeria with the specific intention of starting such a program it would be a different story.

That's how most countries start such endeavors. e.g Israeli scientists/engineers moving to SA to assist in certain weapons programs in the 80's.

https://www.premiumtimesng.com/news/top-news/256735-u-s-moves-block-nigerian-personnel-monitoring-aircraft-production.html
Trending:
This is what i obtained from PREMIUM TIMES.
It does appear the deal will be signed
It does appear the U.S. will follow the SAME TEMPLATE it used before it delievered the F-16 to IRAQ
The def. Minister will meet with the US Ambassador to iron out the conditions of the deal.
Even if the Check is handed over Feb18, 2018. Very unlikely the first plane will touch down in Abuja on or before Feb 18, 2019

Sudanese soldier preparing chicken

1960 Kenya Police Camel Corps.
Maybe we should revive it, can be pretty effective in remote areas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZiyy1OzhtY